PLS NERF RANGER MACE

[MoZing.1594]

UNLIMITED LEAPING STUN WITH SKIRMISHING

UNLIMITED BARRIER

55% DAMAGE INCREASE WITH TRAITS AND MACE PROCS

NEW PET IS FULL RANGED DAZE AND SOFT CC

HEALING TRAP LASTS TOO LONG

CHARR RANGER MACE SIZE INCREASE TAKES UP HALF MY SCREEN

[Saiyan.1704]

idk, ranger untame/druid was already pretty darn bunkish. I rather they just tame what was already OP prior to the new weapons. Not that both isn't an option... I personally haven't fought good mace/mace rangers yet but I already know fighting rangers are already a pain >_>.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

5 hours ago, Saiyan.1704 said:

but I already know fighting rangers are already a pain >_>.

Your ~1500 and still haven't figured out how to fight rangers on a class with how many active and passive defenses again? 

💀

Edited February 29 by Gotejjeken.1267

[GuriGashi.5617]

Not a ranger main, but it is  crazy that the new weapons aren’t even 3 days old and people are already complaining in the forums. How about you let people come up with builds first and test the new weapons in scrims instead of instantly jumping to conclusions and demanding nerfs just because you lost a match/duel against a mace ranger?

[Nepster.4275]

1 hour ago, GuriGashi.5617 said:

Not a ranger main, but it is  crazy that the new weapons aren’t even 3 days old and people are already complaining in the forums. How about you let people come up with builds first and test the new weapons in scrims instead of instantly jumping to conclusions and demanding nerfs just because you lost a match/duel against a mace ranger?

So basically what you are saying is that even tho X weapon is literally unfair to fight against BUT give more time for ppl to figure out optimizations for the said weapon X so it becomes even more stronger...

You see where the problem is right?

If a weapon is strong even without any optimizations for the builds, how could those optimizations make it more acceptable?

And yes, I actually went against some mace rangers, and I thought druid is annoying to fight against until I met mace untamed

With the way the game is going right now, it really seems that PvP is losing skillcap really fast, there is no skill involved in landing one skill and then from there chain CCing, especially now that mace and pet are perma stunning combined with the other utilities

[maxwelgm.4315]

Friendship ended with DH new flavor of the month bff is mace untamed?

[Arheundel.6451]

1 hour ago, Nepster.4275 said:

So basically what you are saying is that even tho X weapon is literally unfair to fight against BUT give more time for ppl to figure out optimizations for the said weapon X so it becomes even more stronger...

You see where the problem is right?

If a weapon is strong even without any optimizations for the builds, how could those optimizations make it more acceptable?

And yes, I actually went against some mace rangers, and I thought druid is annoying to fight against until I met mace untamed

With the way the game is going right now, it really seems that PvP is losing skillcap really fast, there is no skill involved in landing one skill and then from there chain CCing, especially now that mace and pet are perma stunning combined with the other utilities

Imagine playing a mesmer and complaining about balance....let's forget about the bunker chrono support/shatter with rifle or not infesting PvP atm...still have to meet a single ranger build that didn't die instantly to condi burst just for playing gimmick oneshot builds, made to kill low gold players

P.S the ones complaining...play a kittening guardian and mesmer....GTFO!!!!!

Edited February 29 by Arheundel.6451

[aymnad.9023]

1 hour ago, Nepster.4275 said:

So basically what you are saying is that even tho X weapon is literally unfair to fight against BUT give more time for ppl to figure out optimizations for the said weapon X so it becomes even more stronger...

You see where the problem is right?

If a weapon is strong even without any optimizations for the builds, how could those optimizations make it more acceptable?

And yes, I actually went against some mace rangers, and I thought druid is annoying to fight against until I met mace untamed

With the way the game is going right now, it really seems that PvP is losing skillcap really fast, there is no skill involved in landing one skill and then from there chain CCing, especially now that mace and pet are perma stunning combined with the other utilities

Or you are making a mountain out of something that is just “ok” and are not used to yet. It is decent but it will struggle vs any mobility and range.

Edit : The 1s stab also does not improve the matchup vs cc heavy builds since the rest of the kit has long animations.

Edited February 29 by aymnad.9023

[Nepster.4275]

4 hours ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

Imagine playing a mesmer and complaining about balance....let's forget about the bunker chrono support/shatter with rifle or not infesting PvP atm...still have to meet a single ranger build that didn't die instantly to condi burst just for playing gimmick oneshot builds, made to kill low gold players

P.S the ones complaining...play a kittening guardian and mesmer....GTFO!!!!!

I play mostly holo or nowdays necro, I don't know from where u getting that mesmer is anything good, but sure, up to you,after all that's why the top 250 includes so much mesmers, right?

And complaining about rifle chrono is the same as complaining about thief axe...

But atleast u are right about Guardian

And don't tell me that you can die to a condi burst from mesmer on something like a ranger xD

4 hours ago, aymnad.9023 said:

Or you are making a mountain out of something that is just “ok” and are not used to yet. It is decent but it will struggle vs any mobility and range.

Edit : The 1s stab also does not improve the matchup vs cc heavy builds since the rest of the kit has long animations.

It's not just the stab, that one weaponset of mace/mace has atleast as much damage mods/boons/utility as some traitlines in the game, the whole weaponset is packed with stuff, and if the CC chain of Druid was not enough till now, you even have it on mace and not just one one skill one but two that you can fully reset xD
I agree the stab on AA does not make much of a difference but on mace4 with the barrier and stab can be quite useful, 

[Saiyan.1704]

9 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

Your ~1500 and still haven't figured out how to fight rangers on a class with how many active and passive defenses again? 

💀

Did I say I didn't know how to fight them? I don't have an issue with rangers because I simply rotate elsewhere. I don't hit my head on unkillable punching bags.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

2 hours ago, Saiyan.1704 said:

I don't have an issue with rangers because I simply rotate elsewhere. 

 

17 hours ago, Saiyan.1704 said:

 but I already know fighting rangers are already a pain >_>.

👍😃

[Saiyan.1704]

@Gotejjeken.1267 What is it that you're not understandig? Do you honestly believe that guards can 1v1 a Plat bunker Druid/Untamed consistently on point? Because I assure you we can't. Even if we could it is almost always a waste of time. If they're sitting on a node that is theirs then the node is not worth pursuing.

[GuriGashi.5617]

9 hours ago, Nepster.4275 said:

So basically what you are saying is that even tho X weapon is literally unfair to fight against BUT give more time for ppl to figure out optimizations for the said weapon X so it becomes even more stronger...

You see where the problem is right?

If a weapon is strong even without any optimizations for the builds, how could those optimizations make it more acceptable?

And yes, I actually went against some mace rangers, and I thought druid is annoying to fight against until I met mace untamed

With the way the game is going right now, it really seems that PvP is losing skillcap really fast, there is no skill involved in landing one skill and then from there chain CCing, especially now that mace and pet are perma stunning combined with the other utilities

What I am saying is that neither you nor the OP have done scrims with mace ranger  - meaning your opinion is completely subjective and based on you being clapped by probably a better player. Calling new mace ranger  unfair when you don’t know its match ups or how it performs between players of similar skill level is just ridiculous. Leave the judgement to the actual good players 

[aymnad.9023]

3 hours ago, Nepster.4275 said:

It's not just the stab, that one weaponset of mace/mace has atleast as much damage mods/boons/utility as some traitlines in the game, the whole weaponset is packed with stuff, and if the CC chain of Druid was not enough till now, you even have it on mace and not just one one skill one but two that you can fully reset xD
I agree the stab on AA does not make much of a difference but on mace4 with the barrier and stab can be quite useful, 

It definitely is a fun weapon with some potential. It has some defense, cc and the moment I get the buff I just want to shout in front of my screen. While it has a lot of things that sound individually strong it has some heavy weaknesses that impact its effectiveness in a real game.

Most of your damage and ability to fight comes from mace 5 which has long channel. It makes it very easy for people to avoid, prepare a blind / block to make you miss or interrupt you.

Mace 2 seems to miss a lot which also means fewer stacks. It has a 0.75s animation and there is something like an additional 0.75s delay before the explosion. Most people will not take the second part of the damage and if you want to track your opponent you will miss the healing / boon part.

Because you can miss stacks so easily you often find yourself chasing people around but you are not exactly mobile or having that much kill potential. If you play it for a few ranked games you will have fun and turn some fights because when you can land everything it feels good but you will also be surprised to see builds dancing around you or just not caring. 

Edited February 29 by aymnad.9023

[Excitonalt.7340]

11 hours ago, GuriGashi.5617 said:

Not a ranger main, but it is  crazy that the new weapons aren’t even 3 days old and people are already complaining in the forums. How about you let people come up with builds first and test the new weapons in scrims instead of instantly jumping to conclusions and demanding nerfs just because you lost a match/duel against a mace ranger?

For mace's case, I don't think we need to wait for theory crafting to figure out all the synergy we can exploit. The weapon skills are clearly the most overstacked ever in the game's history and they synergize with themselves as well. It will take some time for Anet to nerf it anyway so I don't see problem pointing out the obvious now. I think 2-3 weeks is long enough for ppl to enjoy the fresh Opness but longer than that it hurts everyone's game experience.

[felincyriac.5981]

mace skills are so incredibly bloated, its like they stuffed a whole spec into this weapon set.

[Flowki.7194]

3 hours ago, felincyriac.5981 said:

mace skills are so incredibly bloated, its like they stuffed a whole spec into this weapon set.

I was thinking that too, had a little mess around with them on untamed, and even on zerker they offer some decent sustain for the damage+pet and double use of abilitys. I mean thats not fking bad when you can also mace 3+stun into stealth > secondary jump. Even if stun fails, you get a target drop. 

Edited March 1 by Flowki.7194

[Gotejjeken.1267]

9 hours ago, Saiyan.1704 said:

@Gotejjeken.1267 What is it that you're not understandig? Do you honestly believe that guards can 1v1 a Plat bunker Druid/Untamed consistently on point? Because I assure you we can't. Even if we could it is almost always a waste of time. If they're sitting on a node that is theirs then the node is not worth pursuing.

A core guard vs a Druid on a point is a stalemate, or the two players are not the same skill level.

It's also easy to trap Druids with DH if they aren't running a range weapon like staff--maces play into this by being pure melee, so it's the Druid that has to watch for the trap puke to begin with.  I know, as random unaccounted for traps are really the only thing a DH can kill me with (either failing to stunbreak the tether or just stepping on the wrong node at the wrong time).  

Guard is not weaker than ranger.  You might have to outrotate if you are running into higher rated rangers (1600+ probably in your case), but in general should be equal matching or dominating ranger of your skill level.

6 hours ago, Flowki.7194 said:

 I mean thats not fking bad when you can also mace 3+stun into stealth > secondary jump. Even if stun fails, you get a target drop. 

No different than WH #5 => Stealth or GS #5 => Swoop => Stealth.  In any case, losing almost all access to stability, ranger needs the stealth field anyway--if you think that is OP you are just getting outplayed.  

[Tharan.9085]

4 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

A core guard vs a Druid on a point is a stalemate, or the two players are not the same skill level.

It's also easy to trap Druids with DH if they aren't running a range weapon like staff--maces play into this by being pure melee, so it's the Druid that has to watch for the trap puke to begin with.  I know, as random unaccounted for traps are really the only thing a DH can kill me with (either failing to stunbreak the tether or just stepping on the wrong node at the wrong time).  

Guard is not weaker than ranger.  You might have to outrotate if you are running into higher rated rangers (1600+ probably in your case), but in general should be equal matching or dominating ranger of your skill level.

No different than WH #5 => Stealth or GS #5 => Swoop => Stealth.  In any case, losing almost all access to stability, ranger needs the stealth field anyway--if you think that is OP you are just getting outplayed.  

There has never been meta where ranger didnt counter guardian in a 1v1, it's always a bad matchup

[Flowki.7194]

13 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

No different than WH #5 => Stealth or GS #5 => Swoop => Stealth.  In any case, losing almost all access to stability, ranger needs the stealth field anyway--if you think that is OP you are just getting outplayed.  

Why do you feel the need to jump to insults of skill level, when I was simply stating a very obvious thing.. mace gives untamed a noticable toe to toe amount of sustain for a spec that is also full zerker/maura. It loses mobility, did I say it didnt? but as you are cleary exposing your ranger bias, you brush past the sustain difference between S/W and M/M. Double mace has stun, healing, stab (short true), daze, vigor, combo, with maxe X2 use+stab proc. That is all at hand on 1 weapon set. Then, the combined  at hand pet merge boons and utility slots; more stab, condi cleanse, large heal, 0 physical, superspeed, vigor, 2x stunbreaks, upto 9k barrier (depending on slots). That is enough mitigation to camp mace/mace for a considerable duration.. again on zerker/maura. Being kited can also be negated by using LB, it still does decent damage for a weapon that can reach out to 1700. Youll mock me for that I bet, but at the end of the day, a spec that has massive melee range mitigation on zerker, and can still drop low hp with LB after any TP/gap increase in the game, is not something to dismiss. Do save me the "that will never work at top level". Top level in this game is a fking myth, its nothing but plats off peak farming low golds in ranked, unranked or tourny, where specs like that very much work. Im 2 games of plat with core rev, which shows you the general state of the game.. as that is massively reaching due to an MMr that feeds me silvers every other game. Pretty sure mace/mace ranger is going to have an easier go at it.

 

We have have had power creep, we have had mobility creep, the above, to me.. is sustain creep, which is not exclusive to ranger. 

 

 

Edited March 1 by Flowki.7194

[Gotejjeken.1267]

9 hours ago, Tharan.9085 said:

There has never been meta where ranger didnt counter guardian in a 1v1, it's always a bad matchup

Such an overarching statement...care to elaborate? I'd love to know how ranger counters guard, as I've already given a bunch of unanswered examples of the opposite.

10 minutes ago, Flowki.7194 said:

Why do you feel the need to jump to insults of skill level, when I was simply stating a very obvious thing.

Not sure it was, as I was speaking strictly on the stealth field being OP, which is a rotating carousel that this forum loves complaining about: the pet => the stealth field / stealth access => too much burst => too much sustain.  You get a stun + target drop, or you get a ~8k burst from a sword skill and then a target drop...what really is the difference here?

My point is, mace #3 is not the only stun ranger has, and not even a ranged one.  It's literally balanced the same way as about 3 other ranger weapons and we still get all  caps 'nerf now' topics 😂.

Really though, what does all this forum complaining result in? Nothing...because went from teleburst untamed => burst soulbeast => stall condi Untamed (d/d+Staff) => stall builds with mace.  It just made the ranger players change up playstyles literally every patch, but hasn't actually balanced anything.

[Flowki.7194]

10 minutes ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

Such an overarching statement...care to elaborate? I'd love to know how ranger counters guard, as I've already given a bunch of unanswered examples of the opposite.

Not sure it was, as I was speaking strictly on the stealth field being OP, which is a rotating carousel that this forum loves complaining about: the pet => the stealth field / stealth access => too much burst => too much sustain.  You get a stun + target drop, or you get a ~8k burst from a sword skill and then a target drop...what really is the difference here?

My point is, mace #3 is not the only stun ranger has, and not even a ranged one.  It's literally balanced the same way as about 3 other ranger weapons and we still get all  caps 'nerf now' topics 😂.

Really though, what does all this forum complaining result in? Nothing...because went from teleburst untamed => burst soulbeast => stall condi Untamed (d/d+Staff) => stall builds with mace.  It just made the ranger players change up playstyles literally every patch, but hasn't actually balanced anything.

I was not trying to say the mace 3 combo is OP.. im simply being objective on what untamed now has at hand. From my short time playing m/m it, and dueling against it, it is not the "difficult and punishing power untamed spec" that I remember playing or fighting against last year or so. Thats what I am getting at, the bar for untamed has dropped, across condi builds or this build. Free sustain for essentially pressing the buttons you were about to press anyway, it genuinely has a bladesworn feel to it, smash buttons, get barrier.

[Arheundel.6451]

36 minutes ago, Flowki.7194 said:

I was not trying to say the mace 3 combo is OP.. im simply being objective on what untamed now has at hand. From my short time playing m/m it, and dueling against it, it is not the "difficult and punishing power untamed spec" that I remember playing or fighting against last year or so. Thats what I am getting at, the bar for untamed has dropped, across condi builds or this build. Free sustain for essentially pressing the buttons you were about to press anyway, it genuinely has a bladesworn feel to it, smash buttons, get barrier.

Pressing few buttons to get free sustain/dmg is the theme of GW2 in 2024 and beyond, it's the case with overplayed professions like guardian,necro with several meta builds in all gamemodes. No matter how many stacked guardian/necros are in a single match...every match, if another class get even remotely close to their level of faceroll mode...this "community" loses their kitten and no...mace/mace is nothing so amazing or legendary, if that would be the case, I'd see several rangers per match playing it and wvw would be full to the brink with mace/mace ranger. Neither has happened, so yeah let's go ahead and nerf mace 3-4-5 whatever...nobody cares, it's a super niche gimmick used to clap some low gold, too used to facetank everything thx to braindead gameplay options

Edited March 1 by Arheundel.6451

[Gotejjeken.1267]

2 hours ago, Flowki.7194 said:

Free sustain for essentially pressing the buttons you were about to press anyway, it genuinely has a bladesworn feel to it, smash buttons, get barrier.

 

1 hour ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

Pressing few buttons to get free sustain/dmg is the theme of GW2 in 2024 and beyond, it's the case with overplayed professions like guardian,necro 

Agree with both of these.

Also, Flowki you are correct that it is not the burst you remember because both this and WvW forums had that removed (Teleburst Untamed and Sic' Em Soulbeast).  So now, the 'monster' that has been created is melee bunker Druid, which trust me, a lot of rangers are not happy about--as it's pretty boring. 

It's boring because you don't do anything for your team but contest nodes, however you can't keep them capped (because of AoE ground vomit and 25 CCs coming at you from any given class at once) and get constantly yelled at for keeping them neutral (twice yesterday this happened to me in guarding home, we won both games, still got called useless).  

It's also not a complete vision, which does no one any favors.  What I mean is, right now it's in a somewhat overperforming state because we don't have healing spring, glyph of stars, and shared anguish nerfs.  When those do go through Ranger probably is back in dumpster as Mace #4 is great, but not enough to carry the entire set.  

The thing is Ranger bunker is good but not as good as other bunkers (like the guard debate I was having above...Core guard is a far better bunker).  This kind of sums up what I feel about that:

1 hour ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

so yeah let's go ahead and nerf mace 3-4-5 whatever...nobody cares, it's a super niche gimmick used to clap some low gold, too used to facetank everything thx to braindead gameplay options

[Flowki.7194]

34 minutes ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

 

Agree with both of these.

Also, Flowki you are correct that it is not the burst you remember because both this and WvW forums had that removed (Teleburst Untamed and Sic' Em Soulbeast).  So now, the 'monster' that has been created is melee bunker Druid, which trust me, a lot of rangers are not happy about--as it's pretty boring. 

It's boring because you don't do anything for your team but contest nodes, however you can't keep them capped (because of AoE ground vomit and 25 CCs coming at you from any given class at once) and get constantly yelled at for keeping them neutral (twice yesterday this happened to me in guarding home, we won both games, still got called useless).  

It's also not a complete vision, which does no one any favors.  What I mean is, right now it's in a somewhat overperforming state because we don't have healing spring, glyph of stars, and shared anguish nerfs.  When those do go through Ranger probably is back in dumpster as Mace #4 is great, but not enough to carry the entire set.  

The thing is Ranger bunker is good but not as good as other bunkers (like the guard debate I was having above...Core guard is a far better bunker).  This kind of sums up what I feel about that:

Well I wish to fking god you were in my games, 90% are lost becuase of idiots going far, in any and every situation. 9/10 games at this level can simply be won by holding home/mid... but the wanne be 1v1 roamer experts.. FARRRRRR.