Passion has gone my friends [Merged]

[Shiyo.3578]

15 hours ago, luigiormario.7305 said:

At the end of the day,  some people like SOTO, others don't (like with previous expansions), but if you're so determined only one structure will work I'd be looking at a different game. 

The game is the worst state it's  been in since LS1. The state is just as bad as LS1.

Thank the 3 leviathans who single handedly keep the game afloat through Black lion chest gambling.

Edited March 21 by Shiyo.3578

[Mistwraithe.3106]

3 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Honestly, you seem to miss the main point beyond the new structure - it's here because thay are no longer able to deliver the content under old one. The new model is all about reduced resource expenditures - less work at less effort. You don't have to think too hard to realize that this is inevitably going to result in less (and poorer quality) content. There's just no way around that. If they could deliver content in the new structure at no loss to neither quality nor quantity, there would have been no reason to change the whole release schedule in the first place.

I think you were completely correct in your first sentence, Anet pretty much said as much that they needed a more stable economic model.

The rest of the paragraph is your interpretation though. Anet have essentially said the new model is so they have the regular revenue to keep up development of the game and their team has actually grown. So you are saying the opposite . Maybe you are right but your comments seem to come from your disinterest in the SOTO content (which some others have said they like) rather than from any objective evidence to back them.

[Astralporing.1957]

16 minutes ago, Mistwraithe.3106 said:

I think you were completely correct in your first sentence, Anet pretty much said as much that they needed a more stable economic model.

The rest of the paragraph is your interpretation though. Anet have essentially said the new model is so they have the regular revenue to keep up development of the game and their team has actually grown. So you are saying the opposite . Maybe you are right but your comments seem to come from your disinterest in the SOTO content (which some others have said they like) rather than from any objective evidence to back them.

Their team has actually grown. Anet team, that is. Not necessarily GW2 one. From what we know they now have more people in the studio than they had at the time they were working on both LS3 and PoF. And yet they aren;t capable of outputting even half the amount of work on GW2 that they could then. It's not that the devs are worse now - it's that they're working on other things.

That is the issue - the revenue does not go back to GW2. It flows towards funding other projects, parasitizing on GW2. Which would have been somewhat fine had they been doing it in moderation, but unfortunately that is not the case.

Edited March 21 by Astralporing.1957

[Daniyyel.3428]

been playing gw1/2 since 2006.   seen this comment by you for the first time today,   "I am feeling the same downfall of GW2 as I felt it with GW1."   For the last month I've been feeling the same way.  I love gw1/2,  right now they seem to be running in circles and going no where.   Was thinking today,  maybe I should take a break from the game and come back after they drop the 3rd installment of whatever xpac comes after SoTo   and hope for the best. 

Edited March 21 by Daniyyel.3428

[luigiormario.7305]

4 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

You can't make do with just one. As the past has shown without doubt the expansion is pretty much obligatory if you want to at least keep up the game quality and player interest.

Player interest, if one is to believe ArenaNet numbers, is still perfectly fine without an expansion in your definitions. Are you saying because only the one model has worked in the past, anything different can't work in the future?

4 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Honestly, you seem to miss the main point beyond the new structure - it's here because thay are no longer able to deliver the content under old one. The new model is all about reduced resource expenditures - less work at less effort. You don't have to think too hard to realize that this is inevitably going to result in less (and poorer quality) content. There's just no way around that. If they could deliver content in the new structure at no loss to neither quality nor quantity, there would have been no reason to change the whole release schedule in the first place.

This is my entire point? You have predetermined that this model of less more often can only fail. Admittedly they had suggested something similar with IBS with saying no more expansions. The last three releases - IBS, EOD and SOTO I believe have suffered in quality due to changes in this structure. IBS had a rushed ending to start EOD, EOD was rushed due to no planning, SOTO was rushed as they had nothing finished prior to completing EOD (due to the rush for that). A problem of their own making I know, but I don't see why this new release schedule is doomed to fail from the beginning just because they have changed their minds in the past? This model allows for much better planning ahead than they've had in certainly the most recent few years, so I for one am interested to see the next few expansions and if they can reflect that. 

But as I said, if you're certain that this model can only fail and nothing else, then shouldn't you find a different game until the structure suits your ideals? And if not, guild wars 2 must be doing something to keep your interest, which would indicate expansions as you put them are indeed not obligatory. 

[Cuks.8241]

1 hour ago, luigiormario.7305 said:

The last three releases - IBS, EOD and SOTO I believe have suffered in quality due to changes in this structure. IBS had a rushed ending to start EOD, EOD was rushed due to no planning, SOTO was rushed as they had nothing finished prior to completing EOD (due to the rush for that).

They had quite some time between Eod and Soto. And their cadence now is yearly expansion, they won't have more time suddenly. I'm guessing they moved their best A team developers to new projects (or they just lost them) and GW2 is now in domain of the B or just much smaller team (again only guessing, no offense to the devs). Which I think makes total sense for a decade old game and a studio that basically only has one game to pull from and goes for another title. Unfortunately it shows because in my opinion pretty much every aspect is a step backwards besides map design which is still good. And some parts of the game are basically discontinued, which again makes total sense at this stage of the game.

Now is this model and level of quality doomed to fail? I actually think not and they are surely still planning long term because otherwise they wouldn't be fixing and upgrading basic systems. They will sustain it in it's current form and scope and gw2 is objectively still a very good game. But I don't think we will see a big  jump in quality, creativity or scope ever unless the number of customers jump significantly, which I just don't see happening. 

Anyway if Anet is making a new game and that's their primary focus now, I'm looking forward to it. And I will still play at least spvp and wvw because good pvp games are timeless as long as there are some players left and you're not looking to be super competitive.

[luigiormario.7305]

9 minutes ago, Cuks.8241 said:

They had quite some time between Eod and Soto. And their cadence now is yearly expansion, they won't have more time suddenly.

Yes SOTO was likely the least rushed of the three, but due to the changing business model I still think it was somewhat rushed. Certainly Gyala Delve's release suffered from similar reasoning. 

If they can stick with the same model for a greater period of time one would hope the content can only get better as they continue to streamline. 

[Shiyo.3578]

40 minutes ago, Cuks.8241 said:

But I don't think we will see a big  jump in quality, creativity or scope ever unless the number of customers jump significantly, which I just don't see happening. 

10m people could buy the game overnight and 0% of that would go into GW2.

[Holmindeboks.3490]

Anet should put banner advertisements ingame. And pop ups after every map change. And to disable it you have to pay an monthly subscription. Like youtube does and all others. Weird that a company stay behind with a feature like this. but not implement those options while many companys does this. They cutting on their own money for the playerbase. Its the standard now a days. Players want new and fresh content. But thats not possible without a basic income. 
 

or put exclusive items in game that can only be bought with a new currency that is only possible to pay with cash. Players are hungry for exclusives. You can say, no dont do this. But ppl already doing that for pre-orders. And battle passes in other games. Paying for exclusives. Its weird that they put hours to design items that just go away for free because a virtual currency (gold) they missing alot of money this way. They only earn from expansions and a handful ppl that buy gems with cash. 
 

imagine after this implement the company gets so big and rich that they increase their team and players get often more raids, pvp, maybe new races, professions. Expansions. 

[kharmin.7683]

1 minute ago, Holmindeboks.3490 said:

Anet should put banner advertisements ingame. And pop ups after every map change. And to disable it you have to pay an monthly subscription. Like youtube does and all others. Weird that a company stay behind with a feature like this. but not implement those options while many companys does this. They cutting on their own money for the playerbase. Its the standard now a days. Players want new and fresh content. But thats not possible without a basic income. 
 

or put exclusive items in game that can only be bought with a new currency that is only possible to pay with cash. Players are hungry for exclusives. You can say, no dont do this. But ppl already doing that for pre-orders. And battle passes in other games. Paying for exclusives. Its weird that they put hours to design items that just go away for free because a virtual currency (gold) they missing alot of money this way. They only earn from expansions and a handful ppl that buy gems with cash. 
 

imagine after this implement the company gets so big and rich that they increase their team and players get often more raids, pvp, maybe new races, professions. Expansions. 

Imagine after this implementation, the majority of the player base leaves the game.  Because that's what's been proposed before and many have said that the current F2P/B2P model is the reason why they stay with GW2.  I'm one of them. 

[Holmindeboks.3490]

5 minutes ago, kharmin.7683 said:

Imagine after this implementation, the majority of the player base leaves the game.  Because that's what's been proposed before and many have said that the current F2P/B2P model is the reason why they stay with GW2.  I'm one of them. 

You probably underestimated the power of addiction. Ppl wouldnt leave a game so easy for what they have build up. Some have 10k hours in the game. Many have lots of friends ingame and a nice guild/community. And i think they would pay 10 euro monthly to keep playing the game. If they would leave then they have to search another game to play. But there are no others. As far as i know. Many other games already have a subscription or paid exclusives. 

[EverzSam.9214]

As someone who has recently moved from WoW for feeling the same reasons (and has become really engaged in GW2), I do wonder if MMO fatigue is an actual thing.

[Holmindeboks.3490]

6 minutes ago, EverzSam.9214 said:

As someone who has recently moved from WoW for feeling the same reasons (and has become really engaged in GW2), I do wonder if MMO fatigue is an actual thing.

Not mmo in general. Just endless grinding for nothing. When i played games when i was younger. Fps mostly. Wolfenstein enemy terrirtory or call of duty. You auto assign team. Pick a weapon and play as long as you want. Or till match ends. Todays game is grind grind grind. Battlepasses etc.  I dont buy battlepasses anymore. 
 

when i played wow last year someone got one of the rarest mounts in game from sha of anger. He pinged it. I first thought i insult him. But instead i asked how many kills he made. He said 2300 boss kills. So i congratulated him. Sad part is. He probably got the mount in the time the droprate was boosted to 1% because blizzard made a HUGE mistake with the dragon flight race, the loot table contained only gold and the mount. (Because the new race had no armor drops on that boss) for other classes it was 60% chance for gold and 40% for an armor piece. If you were lucky you got a mount instead of armor. But if the class has no armor on the loot table then mount is dropping. So there was a 40% chance to get the mount. And instead of rolling back the mount droprate is increased and so not rare anymore. 

[EverzSam.9214]

7 minutes ago, Holmindeboks.3490 said:

Not mmo in general. Just endless grinding for nothing. When i played games when i was younger. Fps mostly. Wolfenstein enemy terrirtory or call of duty. You auto assign team. Pick a weapon and play as long as you want. Or till match ends. Todays game is grind grind grind. Battlepasses etc.  I dont buy battlepasses anymore. 
 

when i played wow last year someone got one of the rarest mounts in game from sha of anger. He pinged it. I first thought i insult him. But instead i asked how many kills he made. He said 2300 boss kills. So i congratulated him. Sad part is. He probably got the mount in the time the droprate was boosted to 1% because blizzard made a HUGE mistake with the dragon flight race, the loot table contained only gold and the mount. (Because the new race had no armor drops on that boss) for other classes it was 60% chance for gold and 40% for an armor piece. If you were lucky you got a mount instead of armor. But if the class has no armor on the loot table then mount is dropping. So there was a 40% chance to get the mount. And instead of rolling back the mount droprate is increased and so not rare anymore. 

Oh, I am a child of the dedicated server, from the days of UT99, Q3, CS1.6 and so forth, the lobby shooters so absolutely nothing for me at all.

Strange you mention that, actually getting the Sha of Anger mount was one of the 'I'm quitting' moments when I realised I grinded for years for something that we can't even use and will just sit on the pile of junk that is totally irrelevant. That and events which meant I had to be on all the time, despite real life taking hold, meant the game became something that isn't currently made for me.

[kharmin.7683]

1 hour ago, Holmindeboks.3490 said:

You probably underestimated the power of addiction. Ppl wouldnt leave a game so easy for what they have build up. Some have 10k hours in the game. Many have lots of friends ingame and a nice guild/community. And i think they would pay 10 euro monthly to keep playing the game. If they would leave then they have to search another game to play. But there are no others. As far as i know. Many other games already have a subscription or paid exclusives. 

But they can pay 10 euro each month right now.  It's a choice.  If you force that decision, then players will leave.  One of the larger appeals of GW2 is that there are no paid exclusives walled behind spending money.  People already try to call this game P2W; if you start adding paid exclusives, it will become so.

[QueenKeriti.5176]

3 hours ago, EverzSam.9214 said:

As someone who has recently moved from WoW for feeling the same reasons (and has become really engaged in GW2), I do wonder if MMO fatigue is an actual thing.

100% is. Burnout is also a thing, even if it's something that happened slowly over a long period of time. Boredom, too. Taking a break/changing scenery is important.

GW2 is great in that you can take a break for months/years and not be "behind" when you come back.

[Holmindeboks.3490]

2 hours ago, QueenKeriti.5176 said:

 

GW2 is great in that you can take a break for months/years and not be "behind" when you come back.

Depents when you stop. If you took a break before heart of thorns then the mastery grind is huge. Xp wise. There are many important ones. Like last time at xera someone didnt have ley line glyding. 

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

8 minutes ago, Holmindeboks.3490 said:

Depents when you stop. If you took a break before heart of thorns then the mastery grind is huge. Xp wise. There are many important ones. Like last time at xera someone didnt have ley line glyding. 

Which is about the same as not playing WoW for one release cycle. Imagine if not playing for like 3 months meant your Ascended gear was on the level of lower end Rare.

[Cuks.8241]

2 minutes ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

Which is about the same as not playing WoW for one release cycle. Imagine if not playing for like 3 months meant your Ascended gear was on the level of lower end Rare.

Thats not true. First of all constant gearing is the main wow loop. Each expansion has everyone start at the same point. And during expansion patches they usually introduce gear catch up mechanics through crafting, dungeon tokens... And older raids get easier because of that gear so its easier to do them and get more gear.

There are very limited catch up mechanics for masteries in gw2. You more or less have to do the whole grind.

[QueenKeriti.5176]

39 minutes ago, Holmindeboks.3490 said:

Depents when you stop. If you took a break before heart of thorns then the mastery grind is huge. Xp wise. There are many important ones. Like last time at xera someone didnt have ley line glyding. 

Masteries are so much easier to grind than gear, imo, especially if/when gear has RNG involved (long, pained, hard stare at my KMMO days). The hardest part of HoT is the mastery points themselves; there are ways to relatively quickly get HoT XP. (AB will drown you in XP) 

Tbqh, the hardest part of masteries is knowing which ones to focus on first to optimize your time/which will be most valuable to you in the immediate term vs long term.

[Sobx.1758]

47 minutes ago, Cuks.8241 said:

There are very limited catch up mechanics for masteries in gw2. You more or less have to do the whole grind.

What "grind"do you mean exactly when you're saying this?

Edited March 22 by Sobx.1758

[TheOuroborus.6387]

Yes, End of Dragons expansion was left unfinished and SOTO... let's face it... is lazy and sucks. But GW2 is STILL absolutely hands-down the BEST MMO in the world today. I start new characters all the time just to play through core and PoF. Love playing with new builds. Hope you get your mojo back.

[Holmindeboks.3490]

3 hours ago, QueenKeriti.5176 said:

Masteries are so much easier to grind than gear, imo, especially if/when gear has RNG involved (long, pained, hard stare at my KMMO days). The hardest part of HoT is the mastery points themselves; there are ways to relatively quickly get HoT XP. (AB will drown you in XP) 

Tbqh, the hardest part of masteries is knowing which ones to focus on first to optimize your time/which will be most valuable to you in the immediate term vs long term.

True. Gear is rng. But if you use looking for raid in wow then rng can be a problem. BUT if you are in a raiding guild then boss loot is shared and so they discuss wich player gets wich item for the best raid progress. I remember doing deathwing on my warrior. 8 weeks long i didnt get the 2 handed sword. So i played another character. But in a raid guild there is not those problems. And mythic gear is better then the new normal gear from raids. Atleast back then when i played. So they start with better gear then normal lvl raiders. 
 

and mastery’s. Sure its easy. But its not nice to grind xp for weeks or months after a comeback. One good thing is. You only have to do it once. 
 

both games have their pro’s and cons. But me as a loot player guildwars 2 is not the best. But i already gave my opinion on that part. 
 

and ofc if you leave wow you (can) miss something. Thats also what i hate back then. But quitting a game for years make it even more easy to ignore exclusives. But wow is made for the REAL die hard mmo players. I am not really an mmo player. I hate daily tasks. And more. I hate challenges. Thats why i would only solo old content for mounts if i would play. Enough to collect from 3 missed expansions. 
 

the thing i really wanted in guildwars 2 is legendary gear. It was a struggle. But high chance to get bored if i have the armor and quit after a month. 
 

maybe i some day i will create a ticket and ask them to mail me 500 Li. Why not? Make someones day xD 

[Shiyo.3578]

10 hours ago, EverzSam.9214 said:

As someone who has recently moved from WoW for feeling the same reasons (and has become really engaged in GW2), I do wonder if MMO fatigue is an actual thing.

It's not. Vanilla WoW and FFXI (11, not 14)are still great games that I have fun playing.

[illuminati.8453]

10 hours ago, EverzSam.9214 said:

As someone who has recently moved from WoW for feeling the same reasons (and has become really engaged in GW2), I do wonder if MMO fatigue is an actual thing.

I think it is.  I would imagine for the developers too.  Hence, GW2's current state of development, in my opinion.  But those that stick with it don't seem to ever quit permanently.  I have been at them since EQ days.