Axe thief

[The Game Slayer.7632]

*golf clap*

Anet, you did it! you killed axe thief. a new record this time. 3 days!!

the no line of sight requirement on the dual skill was to be expected. but the range requirement?... yea... this kills axe in pvp. just really bad now.

 

EDIT: Let me try help you guys understand the double standard. Ranger can cast rapid fire or long range shot when they're outside of 1500 range. The true range of the arrow is like 1800 or so to account for player movement, but that doesn't account for player movement in many scenarios like sitting in a tower or when things get vertical. And you will, in many cases, get a range of 1800-2000. Crazy! I'm going to go complain about this now since thief has been nerfed and can't enjoy a longer ranged weapon.

Edited March 2 by The Game Slayer.7632

[Gazrul.3086]

I don't know about PvP, but the axe is broken beyond belief in WvW. Literal one-shots, and they can be done through walls. 

[Astralporing.1957]

14 hours ago, The Game Slayer.7632 said:

*golf clap*

Anet, you did it! you killed axe thief. a new record this time. 3 days!!

the no line of sight requirement on the dual skill was to be expected. but the range requirement?... yea... this kills axe in pvp. just really bad now.

Yep, it's absolutely absurd for a weapon to have a range. [/s]

[Sobx.1758]

6 hours ago, Chronardis.4028 said:

I don't know about PvP, but the axe is broken beyond belief in WvW. Literal one-shots, and they can be done through walls. 

"Orchestrated Assault: Fixed an issue that prevented this skill from requiring the user to be in range of the target or to have the target in their line of sight."

Didn't this fix it?

 

56 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Yep, it's absolutely absurd for a weapon to have a range. [/s]

It is if you're ranger! 🤭 

But yeah, overally complaining about skills needing LoS and obeying their listed range is weird. It's not even a nerf, it's a fix.

Edited March 2 by Sobx.1758

[The Game Slayer.7632]

The double standards are crazy... If anet made long range shot.. or any ranged weapon require you to be within range to at least cast it... y'all would lose your minds. For some weird reason this has a range requirement.

 

Think about it. For more than 5 seconds please.

[The Game Slayer.7632]

1 hour ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Yep, it's absolutely absurd for a weapon to have a range. [/s]

Okay! Let's make long range shot unable to be cast unless you're within 1500 range. I'll wait. LOLLLLL

[The Game Slayer.7632]

23 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

"Orchestrated Assault: Fixed an issue that prevented this skill from requiring the user to be in range of the target or to have the target in their line of sight."

Didn't this fix it?

 

It is if you're ranger! 🤭 

But yeah, overally complaining about skills needing LoS and obeying their listed range is weird. It's not even a nerf, it's a fix.

The LOS is completely fine. That's an obvious fix. But not the range requirement to cast. Absolutely horrible..

[The Game Slayer.7632]

7 hours ago, Chronardis.4028 said:

I don't know about PvP, but the axe is broken beyond belief in WvW. Literal one-shots, and they can be done through walls. 

LOS requirement fixed that. sooo.. yea.. read patch notes next time.

[Sobx.1758]

24 minutes ago, The Game Slayer.7632 said:

The double standards are crazy... If anet made long range shot.. or any ranged weapon require you to be within range to at least cast it... y'all would lose your minds. For some weird reason this has a range requirement.

 

Think about it. For more than 5 seconds please.

I thought about it and concluded that you're wrong. If they did that, I'd think the exact same thing: that's completely reasonable and should have already happened long ago. It was also requested by many players for years now.

 

22 minutes ago, The Game Slayer.7632 said:

The LOS is completely fine. That's an obvious fix. But not the range requirement to cast. Absolutely horrible..

I don't see why range being what the tooltip says is seen by you as something that's breaking the skill. It wasn't even a nerf, it was a fix. And before you repeat "but ranger!" a few more times (which was literally the joke I made in my post too btw): yes, ranger's range should be fixed too. If axe is somehow unusable because of its range (is it?), adjust the range and put the correct one in the tooltip.

Edited March 2 by Sobx.1758

[The Game Slayer.7632]

Just now, Sobx.1758 said:

I thought about it and concluded that you're wrong. If they did that, I'd think the exact same thing: that's completely reasonable and should have already happened long ago. It was also requested by many players for years now.

 

I don't see why range being what the tooltip says is seen by you as something that's breaking the skill. It wasn't even a nerf, it was a fix. And before you repeat "but ranger!" a few more times (which was literally the joke I made in my post too btw): yes, ranger's range should be fixed too.

Ok, well we fundamentally agree then. I don't care about the range requirement per se, but the fact of the double standard. Either make both have the range requirement or neither. I don't care, as long as things are equal. But the range requirement on ranger has not existed since launch. So it won't ever happen.

[Cuks.8241]

I haven't tried axe thief yet but if the ability has a cast and travel time it is indeed a bit strange that you can't just cast it anywhere (if I understood it correctly). 

It's part of the gw2 mechanics that you can free cast most abilities and that projectiles are actual projectiles with physics and limited tracking and not just animation that has no impact on the gameplay. 

Need to try it though. It's not just ranger, all (I think) projectiles work in a similar manner. 

[Astralporing.1957]

6 hours ago, The Game Slayer.7632 said:

The double standards are crazy... If anet made long range shot.. or any ranged weapon require you to be within range to at least cast it... y'all would lose your minds. For some weird reason this has a range requirement.

Think about it. For more than 5 seconds please.

Apples and oranges. Think about it 5 seconds yourself. You are comparing a projectile skill, that does not even require a valid target and can be fired in any direction you want (like, you know, thief axe 1) to a teleport skill that does require a target.

[Sobx.1758]

3 hours ago, Cuks.8241 said:

Need to try it though. It's not just ranger, all (I think) projectiles work in a similar manner. 

And if you're able to use a/p 3 while being out of range, all you achieve is losing your "active" axes which fly their intended 900 range (between you and the target, because the range between axes and the target is a bit higher) and don't reach the target, right? What are you gaining by allowing that cast on the out of range target?

1 hour ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Apples and oranges. Think about it 5 seconds yourself. You are comparing a projectile skill, that does not even require a valid target and can be fired in any direction you want (like, you know, thief axe 1) to a teleport skill that does require a target.

As far as I undersand, he's talking about the a/p3, which doesn't port. Although if we look at guardian's sword2 and IJ utilities, they can port in a direction of the targets even if the target is out of range. But even with that being said, I agree that it's like apple and oranges, allowing a/d3 to repeatedly port 900units towards out of range targets for 4 initiative would be completely beyond reason.

[ZvolTx.3165]

When someone mentions or references a/d my eyes glaze over 

The post is talking about a/p, more specifically within the realms of not pve content.  

The issue is that for the attack to land on an enemy, both the player AND the axes (all or most of them, ideally)need to be within 900 range of the target, in contrast to just the axes as before. In pve... this doesn't matter. All you do in pve is stand still and mash the same keys in order anyways, obviously there's more than that, but it's fairly static compared to vs players. 

So against players, and in moving fights, the attack becomes nearly impossible to get a good hit on, and combined with the constant projectile destruction and reflection, most of the time all your attacks are getting destroyed, when they do get through you they get reflected half of those times... before when the player didn't have to be in range and just the axes did, at least the refects wouldn't hit you, now using axe in anything but tiny fights is 90% having zero contribution, 5% hitting one random person for like half their bar, 5% your axes come back at you and take out 80% of your health. 

 

And now in small-scale... the counter to axe? Just move around. As long as you don't stand still like a pver, you avoid like 75% of the axe thief's potential just because the targeting is so bad now.

Bring back no range on player, only on axes, but def nerf the throwing axes through the walls and that... with a better solution than that lazy no LoS fix. Now the famous "thief dead no los" applies to the weapon skills too. 

 

GG fun weapon anet thanks 

Edited March 12 by ZvolTx.3165

[Xoranium.6481]

2 hours ago, ZvolTx.3165 said:

When someone mentions or references a/d my eyes glaze over 

The post is talking about a/p, more specifically within the realms of not pve content.  

The issue is that for the attack to land on an enemy, both the player AND the axes (all or most of them, ideally)need to be within 900 range of the target, in contrast to just the axes as before. In pve... this doesn't matter. All you do in pve is stand still and mash the same keys in order anyways, obviously there's more than that, but it's fairly static compared to vs players. 

So against players, and in moving fights, the attack becomes nearly impossible to get a good hit on, and combined with the constant projectile destruction and reflection, most of the time all your attacks are getting destroyed, when they do get through you they get reflected half of those times... before when the player didn't have to be in range and just the axes did, at least the refects wouldn't hit you, now using axe in anything but tiny fights is 90% having zero contribution, 5% hitting one random person for like half their bar, 5% your axes come back at you and take out 80% of your health. 

 

And now in small-scale... the counter to axe? Just move around. As long as you don't stand still like a pver, you avoid like 75% of the axe thief's potential just because the targeting is so bad now.

Bring back no range on player, only on axes, but def nerf the throwing axes through the walls and that... with a better solution than that lazy no LoS fix. Now the famous "thief dead no los" applies to the weapon skills too. 

 

GG fun weapon anet thanks 

Bang on, 

Does beg the question, given the obviousness of the problem... what the devs do to test these things... took me all of 5 minutes to come to this conclusion after they patched it.

[Sahfur.5612]

It makes no sense. Axes are basically easily visible traps. If the opponent plays in such a way that you can set them up for a burst at a large range and don't see the heavily telegraphed attack I don't know what to tell them. They wouldn't have had a single chance against most of my other thief builds and often I will dodge  almost everything they try to hit me with at that skill level. Axe wasn't even that effective before just fun and new but yeah its dead now.

Why is this not obvious to other people? Is this because we stopped reading books and stuff as a society?

Meanwhile most classes get traps that are invisible with no telegraphs that can be used at a very large distance.

When someone else uses a trap or pet on other class or builds:

Range 1. The player must be in range of the position they put the pet/trap at, and so they cast it on the ground there.

Range 2. The trap must be in range of its target/radius to hit them.

Its like the people who designed it weren't the ones that are doing the balancing since one of its few advantages is now gone.

You had to be in range of the location the axe lands to spin. (Range 1). Then you needed the axe to be in range of the target. (Range 2). That just makes sense. You set your trap in a location utilizing your personal range for placing it, then the trap has its own range separate from you. 

Axes are traps that are remotely triggered and result in a projectile that travels toward the target, with telegraphing. That is the entire concept for the weapon.

Axe was consistent with other classes designs and capabilities and now is hamstrung whereas they are not on other classes. It is objectively unfair and kinda pants on head.

Now its some weird hybrid approach that takes the entire idea for the weapon and trashes it. You should have just given me greatsword.

I'm glad the killing over walls thing is gone, even if it was hilarious, as that was a bug.

A trap/ambush weapon being able to stay spinning in place and attack people based on -its- range instead of your position just makes sense. It should calculate the distance from the axe and not from you, which is what it was doing.

Do pets lose their ability to use their skills when outside your distance? No, their range is determined based on their position.

I was already killing people much faster and with less of an opportunity for them to dodge on my other builds, now axe isn't even a fun thing to try sometimes. Its just inferior.

I agree with that guy, its a double standard. Usually when people complain about this kinda thing its unreasonable but legit axes attacking from their position just makes sense. It opened up fun situations where it could be effective.

Functionally, I'd rather at this point ambush by simply going invisible, teleporting to them with one shot build, putting them on the ground, finishing quickly and then teleporting back using my portal. Axe wasn't letting me do anything I couldn't do better on other builds. Anet is clueless.

I will have to farm people using the same boring builds I've used for years in this game because people don't understand thief or how to balance it or have the ability to see in a non biased manner.

Edited March 19 by Sahfur.5612

[Lithril Ashwalker.6230]

8 hours ago, Sahfur.5612 said:

It makes no sense. Axes are basically easily visible traps. If the opponent plays in such a way that you can set them up for a burst at a large range and don't see the heavily telegraphed attack I don't know what to tell them. They wouldn't have had a single chance against most of my other thief builds and often I will dodge  almost everything they try to hit me with at that skill level. Axe wasn't even that effective before just fun and new but yeah its dead now.

Why is this not obvious to other people? Is this because we stopped reading books and stuff as a society?

Meanwhile most classes get traps that are invisible with no telegraphs that can be used at a very large distance.

When someone else uses a trap or pet on other class or builds:

Range 1. The player must be in range of the position they put the pet/trap at, and so they cast it on the ground there.

Range 2. The trap must be in range of its target/radius to hit them.

Its like the people who designed it weren't the ones that are doing the balancing since one of its few advantages is now gone.

You had to be in range of the location the axe lands to spin. (Range 1). Then you needed the axe to be in range of the target. (Range 2). That just makes sense. You set your trap in a location utilizing your personal range for placing it, then the trap has its own range separate from you. 

Axes are traps that are remotely triggered and result in a projectile that travels toward the target, with telegraphing. That is the entire concept for the weapon.

Axe was consistent with other classes designs and capabilities and now is hamstrung whereas they are not on other classes. It is objectively unfair and kinda pants on head.

Now its some weird hybrid approach that takes the entire idea for the weapon and trashes it. You should have just given me greatsword.

I'm glad the killing over walls thing is gone, even if it was hilarious, as that was a bug.

A trap/ambush weapon being able to stay spinning in place and attack people based on -its- range instead of your position just makes sense. It should calculate the distance from the axe and not from you, which is what it was doing.

Do pets lose their ability to use their skills when outside your distance? No, their range is determined based on their position.

I was already killing people much faster and with less of an opportunity for them to dodge on my other builds, now axe isn't even a fun thing to try sometimes. Its just inferior.

I agree with that guy, its a double standard. Usually when people complain about this kinda thing its unreasonable but legit axes attacking from their position just makes sense. It opened up fun situations where it could be effective.

Functionally, I'd rather at this point ambush by simply going invisible, teleporting to them with one shot build, putting them on the ground, finishing quickly and then teleporting back using my portal. Axe wasn't letting me do anything I couldn't do better on other builds. Anet is clueless.

I will have to farm people using the same boring builds I've used for years in this game because people don't understand thief or how to balance it or have the ability to see in a non biased manner.

it IS getting stale dealing with the same backhanded treatment as red headed step child being thief. 

[kidbuu.4071]

12 hours ago, Lithril Ashwalker.6230 said:

it IS getting stale dealing with the same backhanded treatment as red headed step child being thief. 

Agreed it's every update now they sneak in a last minute Nerf or do a slight modification ( not a buff).  I work in technology and I work with developers and I can tell you first hand. These are the things that you do when you do not like a specific component. It's very passive aggressive. I'm at a point where I want to spend my dollars elsewhere.

[Zacchary.6183]

21 hours ago, Sahfur.5612 said:

Why is this not obvious to other people? Is this because we stopped reading books and stuff as a society?

Since the dawn of gw2, the answer to this question is:

Spoiler

bad players want free kills