What happened to WvW?

[randomusername.9015]

6 hours ago, Mabi black.1824 said:

Do you know why they don't go deeper? because it suits him. It is better to remain within a vague illusion, rather than to assume the awareness that in the end it is a question of ability. If a group of players goes on voice and organizes themselves well in their specific constructions (those who take care of damage and those who take care of cleaning etc etc ) add to this an excellent coordination of the movement and its timing (explode - reload) as you can see we are talking about skill and organization.

Of course, we can argue about which coefficient could be reduced or which coefficient could be increased. Keep in mind that when you change something, it will affect the group in the same way as well. both the small and the large. if the players are good and organized to make the most of the game mechanics.

It means that we're talking about skill and not a bad mechanic.

Skill, are you being ironic? When you see boon blobs from certain german servers being immortal... it's time to adjust the boonball. Because 90% of those players are nowhere near skilled.

[DeWolfe.2174]

9 minutes ago, randomusername.9015 said:

Skill, are you being ironic? When you see boon blobs from certain german servers being immortal... it's time to adjust the boonball. Because 90% of those players are nowhere near skilled.

Tactics, placement, map politics, etc should be considered the more skillful players. 

Let's not lose sight on gear being a big difference too. Players in full Legendary can easy adapt in real time. They can also easily test builds when updates drop. Those players needing to craft new ascended gear and swap runes/sigils will always be lagging behind. We can see the drastic changes or screw ups in the meta the past week in WvW.

[randomusername.9015]

2 minutes ago, DeWolfe.2174 said:

Tactics, placement, map politics, etc should be considered the more skillful players. 

Let's not lose sight on gear being a big difference too. Players in full Legendary can easy adapt in real time. They can also easily test builds when updates drop. Those players needing to craft new ascended gear and swap runes/sigils will always be lagging behind. We can see the drastic changes or screw ups in the meta the past week in WvW.

The context here is fighting, and many of those players are keyboard turning s-keyers.

[Mabi black.1824]

4 hours ago, randomusername.9015 said:

When you see boon blobs from certain german servers being immortal.

I'm in T4 and I'm playing against 4 German servers. But I didn't see anything immortal at all. To be honest, we're having a lot of fun paving your Boom Balls. In this mode there is game and counter game, always. I've never missed it. Don't get me wrong, these German servers are very good, and they have my respect.

They engage, coordinate, and play in formation. This should only be a good thing. The impression is that we put all our difficulties that we encounter in WVW, when for example we are denied a goal or a victory or whatever, and every time we just blame the boom ball.

[cryorion.9532]

10 minutes ago, Mabi black.1824 said:

I'm in T4 and I'm playing against 4 German servers. But I didn't see anything immortal at all. To be honest, we're having a lot of fun paving your Boom Balls. In this mode there is game and counter game, always. I've never missed it. Don't get me wrong, these German servers are very good, and they have my respect.

They engage, coordinate, and play in formation. This should only be a good thing. The impression is that we put all our difficulties that we encounter in WVW, when for example we are denied a goal or a victory or whatever, and every time we just blame the boom ball.

You forgot /s at the end, mister.

[Gehenna.3625]

Aside from it being a matter of skill or not, boons just give way too much output compared to those who are not as well organised. Since WvW has a great variety of skill and organisation, this difference in output should not exist. I agree with giving players who are organised in a boonball an advantage over players who are not but the current advantage is just too big. So big in fact that a well-organised boonball of 20 can easily survive and farm 40 or even more opponents that are not in a boonball group. To me that's an issue unless you want to just keep the boonball players in WvW but I'll tell you that it will be really empty without the others there.

[Mabi black.1824]

1 hour ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

Aside from it being a matter of skill or not, boons just give way too much output compared to those who are not as well organised.

I do not rule out the possibility that you and I might be in complete agreement. You should write down what are the parameters you would like to see modified with lots of coefficients and numbers that you are going to change. The development asked to go into the merits. so feel free to do so. Let's put down in black and white the numbers you want to change, so we can address the topic in a concrete way. So as a result, development can reason about a real change.

[XenesisII.1540]

1 hour ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

Aside from it being a matter of skill or not, boons just give way too much output compared to those who are not as well organised. Since WvW has a great variety of skill and organisation, this difference in output should not exist. I agree with giving players who are organised in a boonball an advantage over players who are not but the current advantage is just too big. So big in fact that a well-organised boonball of 20 can easily survive and farm 40 or even more opponents that are not in a boonball group. To me that's an issue unless you want to just keep the boonball players in WvW but I'll tell you that it will be really empty without the others there.

lol and then we get the situation like last night a boon ball was complaining they couldn't take on a ball twice their size cause of the pugs on the map, they didn't want to open their squad cause "rallybots", they told pugs to get off so another group can get on. The complainer in the forums says Hi. 🤭

Boon ball game play is toxic, their players are toxic to others, it forces groups to run more numbers or gtfo, it forces casuals/pugs to play ball or gtfo, it forces pug commanders to not run when a ball is on the map, it forces players to run meta specs with meta builds or gtfo. It's gvg (one of you had this on your bingo card complaint) being forced on the pugs in the open wvw environment, where every boon ball zerg/blob now has to be treated like a raid boss instead of a world boss. 🤭

Imagine if all the counters were still up to par, these ballers would all be one push wonders rallybotting as hard as pugs cause they couldn't figure out how to use a roundabout instead of getting steamrolled on the spot or in reverse. The audacity to call others bots, when zerging is basically a duel between two commanders, and the 49 others are zombie cheerleaders that need to push buttons and move when told to. 🤭

My weekly rant to farm confused faces, insert over here boonballbots 🤭 -->

[Gehenna.3625]

21 hours ago, Mabi black.1824 said:

I do not rule out the possibility that you and I might be in complete agreement. You should write down what are the parameters you would like to see modified with lots of coefficients and numbers that you are going to change. The development asked to go into the merits. so feel free to do so. Let's put down in black and white the numbers you want to change, so we can address the topic in a concrete way. So as a result, development can reason about a real change.

Well, I'm not a game developer nor an experienced theorycrafter, so I'm not able to properly go into specifics, I admit my limitations there. Ultimately I find it strange that boons can be kept up 100% of the time at all. So then it depends on whether you want to maintain that element or not what needs to be changed.

I'm not going to work it out in detail simply because I can't. But I don't need to be a mechanic to understand that a car crashing into a bicycle is an unequal situation that the bike will never win. And that's the pov I'm talking from. I see the inequality, I understand where the inequality comes from but I'm not well-versed enough to make sensible contributions to the inner workings of the boon system. 

And besides, I don't feel that Anet is actually interested in making changes to boons. They have their own agenda for the game and they don't change things that they don't want to for whichever reason and this is one of those things imo. I have this opinion because Anet never brings it up and ignores it when players bring it up, even in live-streams. So even if I could, I see it as a waste of time because Anet won't do anything with it.

 

Edited March 8 by Gehenna.3625
spelling mistakes

[kash.9213]

8 hours ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

Aside from it being a matter of skill or not, boons just give way too much output compared to those who are not as well organised. Since WvW has a great variety of skill and organisation, this difference in output should not exist. I agree with giving players who are organised in a boonball an advantage over players who are not but the current advantage is just too big. So big in fact that a well-organised boonball of 20 can easily survive and farm 40 or even more opponents that are not in a boonball group. To me that's an issue unless you want to just keep the boonball players in WvW but I'll tell you that it will be really empty without the others there.

I enjoy fighting boon balls, a lot, but up to a point. Once they decide to commit to taking a structure, the clock is against us and that changes approach and positioning choices and we basically have to feed them if we want to keep it. And it's likely we won't keep it unless enough of our side capitalize on opportunities people open up. One well-placed interrupt or Control on the right support can quietly snowball with them scrambling to keep their composition from dismantling one frustrating piece at a time. That's just not easy to do with match time constraints or if your map is being flooded by that kind of squad like XenesisII mentioned, who also are likely to be the ones to claim the fight is unwinnable pretty early and leave the pugs to it because they can't get a couple more of theirs on the map like that'll turn things around. 

Sieging happens fast and you can lose your corner of the map in a flash and then it's basically waiting until another prime time for that map to get active enough again. Time is against us with boon balls so either those need to take a hit, because they already have the advantage inherently by having doubled up numbers in their collective budget and organized group buff spread beyond just boons, or sieging itself needs to change. 

[TexZero.7910]

'member when anet had developer livestreams outside of balance patches ?

no...it's okay anet doesn't either.

[Dagger.2035]

This was the start of the problem.  You can review the original comments and many of us predicted this outcome.  Sustain is too high and once you outnumber your opponent by a certain threshold it is too easy to stack extra supports and be untouchable.

[Gehenna.3625]

14 hours ago, kash.9213 said:

I enjoy fighting boon balls, a lot, but up to a point. Once they decide to commit to taking a structure, the clock is against us and that changes approach and positioning choices and we basically have to feed them if we want to keep it. And it's likely we won't keep it unless enough of our side capitalize on opportunities people open up. One well-placed interrupt or Control on the right support can quietly snowball with them scrambling to keep their composition from dismantling one frustrating piece at a time. That's just not easy to do with match time constraints or if your map is being flooded by that kind of squad like XenesisII mentioned, who also are likely to be the ones to claim the fight is unwinnable pretty early and leave the pugs to it because they can't get a couple more of theirs on the map like that'll turn things around. 

Sieging happens fast and you can lose your corner of the map in a flash and then it's basically waiting until another prime time for that map to get active enough again. Time is against us with boon balls so either those need to take a hit, because they already have the advantage inherently by having doubled up numbers in their collective budget and organized group buff spread beyond just boons, or sieging itself needs to change. 

It's not just losing objectives. Boonballs at times wait with capping an objective because they're just farming the defenders while inside, particularly in their garrison. They know that the defenders are disorganised and as such they can do this for a long time. Some of the boonballs just leave the garrison and don't cap it but others just farm for 10-15 mins and then cap it and move on.

I can't blame them for it but I can and do blame Anet for allowing such situations. People often talk about numbers when it comes to population but even if the populations are better balanced it doesn't matter because this issue still exists. Because what use is it if you have equal populations on the map but one side has a boonball. They automatically win and can take the entire map if they want to. That's why my primary concern is with boonballs.

[Mabi black.1824]

1 hour ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

They automatically win and can take the entire map if they want to

until they find adequate numbers and above all players who know what they have to do on the other side. As I have already said several times there is game and counter game in WVW. Ball formations are the most fun to clear, because there usually isn't a single one left alive. 

I have seen some that took 20 minutes to go from the bay to the north/west camp (because they were literally besieged by our cloud) every 5 meters they stop to regroup with the hope of not losing comrades on the way. all to no avail. At 1 to 1 they will all die. And when the time is right, the grand finale will last less than 15 seconds.😉

[XenesisII.1540]

1 hour ago, Mabi black.1824 said:

Ball formations are the most fun to clear, because there usually isn't a single one left alive. 

Yeah pretty fun seeing your teammates get farmed to a 5-10:1 ratio before you clear the ball out 20 mins later. 😏

[ArchonWing.9480]

53 minutes ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

Yeah pretty fun seeing your teammates get farmed to a 5-10:1 ratio before you clear the ball out 20 mins later. 😏

Joke's on you, my server mates get farmed 5-10:1 vs anything anyways!

Edited March 8 by ArchonWing.9480

[XenesisII.1540]

11 minutes ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

Joke's on you, my server mates get farmed 5-10:1 vs anything anyways!

🤣

...

..

.

😭

[Gehenna.3625]

4 hours ago, Mabi black.1824 said:

until they find adequate numbers and above all players who know what they have to do on the other side. As I have already said several times there is game and counter game in WVW. Ball formations are the most fun to clear, because there usually isn't a single one left alive. 

It must be nice to be on your server.

[kash.9213]

1 hour ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

It must be nice to be on your server.

Maybe it's more the log in time. I don't know any entire server that can flex like that around the clock if any time outside of that magical window when all their usual savvy pugs are on at the same time. I'll look around and see who's there and the general body language on all sides and I'll know if it's doable or not. Some people just know how to move around with each other like a pack of wild dogs if you've ever watched videos of them scrapping with other animals. Once the other sides body language gives up the lane they chose and how they scramble to correct then you can plot something. 

Most of the time though, your tags or pugs are going to try and square up and attempt a drive they think will break them, putting pretty much everything into one wild play. I don't fault them when they get swept though because they're trying to facilitate a whole kitten blob or squad of different types of people and they might not have all of their go-getters on the map. But then, they should also have some legs outside of full composition. 

ArchonWing gave a nice breakdown in another thread with some solid points if we're taking the average across server pops and not entirely everyone's allstars. 

Spoiler

 

 

Edited March 8 by kash.9213

[Chips.7968]

On 3/3/2024 at 3:58 AM, fuchsia.4369 said:

Boons every where boons boons boons. Doesnt matter if its 50 5 or 1 person the boon bar is full. Every other forum post is asking to do something with boons yet every balance goes the opposite direction and nerfs boon rip. The other posts ask to do something with cele yet those get ignored too. Where do these changes come from? Its not the forums, its not reddit, its not youtube, or anything else that the vast majority have access to. My guess is some private discord server. Does anet every take any feed back from the public? I've never seen zerg players, gvg players, roamers, gankers and duelers complaining about the same exact stuff and ive never seen a balance team ignore such glaring issues for so long. 

It's called "Arenanet Balance Team".

 

Okay, maybe "team" should have been the only word in quotes....

Edited March 8 by Chips.7968

[Mabi black.1824]

13 hours ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

Yeah pretty fun seeing your teammates get farmed to a 5-10:1 ratio before you clear the ball out 20 mins later. 😏

Write as if you've never played WVW. Typical situation that I see in my area ( when you have an adequate number of online players ) comes the call of the scout when the snowball is now on the lord ( because the snowballs are so strong as you insist on saying that they have to build 6 catapults to take the bay quickly or they will have to deal with the enemy ) the time to gather your side towards the bay (with a ratio of 1 : 1 if necessary because often some snowballs under pressure struggle to stay in formation so you can clear them even when outnumbered) that have already captured the target. So what do you do? you wait for them outside (when they dare to go out). There you can witness how a snowball takes 20 minutes to arrive at the N/W camp. You can imagine the ending for yourself. ✌️

[TheGrimm.5624]

8 hours ago, Chips.7968 said:

It's called "Arenanet Balance Team".

 

Okay, maybe "team" should have been the only word in quotes....

Hey! I must submit a complaint on your post. Don't get me distracted via You-tube nor via making me LMAO on Luranni videos since we didn't connect while Destro during WAR days. 

+10 on player advertising for WvW. 

[Mabi black.1824]

11 hours ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

It must be nice to be on your server.

I have to tell you the truth: yes since we had the chance to see the betas, I can tell you that my house is a very good house. We don't win often, in fact the opposite is true. But we have a strong sense of community belonging. We always do what needs to be done. But maybe that's the case for all servers. Do you want to see that this game mode, with 4 small maps never modified has worked for years exactly this reason? 

[TheGrimm.5624]

12 hours ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

Joke's on you, my server mates get farmed 5-10:1 vs anything anyways!

 

12 hours ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

🤣

...

..

.

😭

You two lol

[TheGrimm.5624]

Yes Xen?