Easy hundred blades fix

[Lonecap.4105]

So at this point, after so long without seeing a change, I think Hundred Blades remains as a root skill because it’s too much of a time investment for the devs to make the animation work while the character moving.

And so I propose a small rework to the skill that would only need small visual FX added and would bring the skill into 2024:

First, increase the total cumulative coefficient (in competitive) to 3.5, increase the final hit coefficient to 1.2

Second, increase the animation speed so the cast time is a flat 3 seconds.

Third, split the damage packets in half. Hundred Blades is now a hybrid 600 range frontal cone attack, with non-projectile aerial shockwaves (as indicated by newly added visual effects) that travel 600 range ahead of the warrior. 

The melee component will still exist, and whoever is in melee will be hit by both the sword swings and the shockwaves, eating the full coefficient of the attack. Those who are outside of 130 range will only be hit by the aerial shockwaves, and in this instance, they would take effectively half of the attacks damage.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

Okay, but make the cast time 2.5s instead of 3s.

[Lonecap.4105]

17 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Okay, but make the cast time 2.5s instead of 3s.

It might get a little crazy with quickness if we reduce it too much was my concern, and these changes would already be quite profound with a half second shaved off, damage ramped up, and then range added. I guess if it were up to me I’d see how all that felt first before going harder with the buffs.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

4 minutes ago, ProverbsofHell.2307 said:

It might get a little crazy with quickness if we reduce it too much was my concern, and these changes would already be quite profound with a half second shaved off, damage ramped up, and then range added. I guess if it were up to me I’d see how all that felt first before going harder with the buffs.

Don't be concerned. Reducing it to 2.5s is to get the whole thing within a typical 2s stun or immob while under the effects of quickness, there would still be a stun or immob required with that quickness to get the whole thing in. Part of why it isn't worth using over the AA chain is that the coefficients are too small relative to their cast time. I'd be more warry over buffing the coefficients than reducing the cast time myself.

All that said, this animation rework wouldn't be that hard for them to do. All they would need to do is grab the projectiles from Zealot's Defense and put a yellow tint to them and call it a day. 

[Lonecap.4105]

8 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Don't be concerned. Reducing it to 2.5s is to get the whole thing within a typical 2s stun or immob while under the effects of quickness, there would still be a stun or immob required with that quickness to get the whole thing in. Part of why it isn't worth using over the AA chain is that the coefficients are too small relative to their cast time. I'd be more warry over buffing the coefficients than reducing the cast time myself.

All that said, this animation rework wouldn't be that hard for them to do. All they would need to do is grab the projectiles from Zealot's Defense and put a yellow tint to them and call it a day. 

I’m definitely open to fine tuning the cast time and coefficient so it feels right, those were just some small bumps I felt were fair - but you might be right of course, it’s hard to see how it would feel.

I still want the skill to be extra rewarded for getting that CC and cast off in melee range, but hopefully the range can add some flexibility so you can cast it from root without the CC’d enemy being a hard condition of landing it.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

2 minutes ago, ProverbsofHell.2307 said:

I’m definitely open to fine tuning the cast time and coefficient so it feels right, those were just some small bumps I felt were fair - but you might be right of course, it’s hard to see how it would feel.

I still want the skill to be extra rewarded for getting that CC and cast off in melee range, but hopefully the range can add some flexibility so you can cast it from root without the CC’d enemy being a hard condition of landing it.

Even with the 2.5s cast time you'd need the quickness and a CC to get that reward for most of our CCs.

The mixed range/melee component would give more flexibility and opens up kick->100B as a viable option or Throw Bolas from range -> 100B from 600 or less range.

[Lonecap.4105]

1 minute ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Even with the 2.5s cast time you'd need the quickness and a CC to get that reward for most of our CCs.

The mixed range/melee component would give more flexibility and opens up kick->100B as a viable option or Throw Bolas from range -> 100B from 600 or less range.

I think if we went all the way down to 2.5 cast time, the cumulative coefficient could remain unchanged, it might be a bit too much to bring the cast down so much whilst also increasing the current damage - which is totally fine and might be the better way to go now that you’ve suggested it, since it makes quickness less all-out mandatory for the skill. I’d still bring the final strike coeff up to about 1.0 though.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

1 hour ago, ProverbsofHell.2307 said:

I think if we went all the way down to 2.5 cast time, the cumulative coefficient could remain unchanged, it might be a bit too much to bring the cast down so much whilst also increasing the current damage - which is totally fine and might be the better way to go now that you’ve suggested it, since it makes quickness less all-out mandatory for the skill. I’d still bring the final strike coeff up to about 1.0 though.

I agree.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

You know what would work here?

The old arc divider animation as a channel. 

[SpaceMarine.1836]

You guys need to stop tip toeing around the changes.

Take a look at the recent updates to Guardian's Hammer:

• 3rd auto-attack chain skill, which spawns a symbol, got recharge reduced from 0.9 to 0.7. This is huge when you combine it with quickness and symbol duration trait, as you can stack quite a few symbols on top for huge damage.
• 2nd skill, the huge DPS, can now literally port on top of the enemy automatically
• 3rd skill, the 1200 range immobilize with good DPS now got also barrier on hit, buffed even more in subsequent patch, AND reduced cast time from 1.2 to 0.94
• 4rd skill now marks the enemy to teleport to with the 2nd skill, and instantly recharges the 2nd skill, the top DPS one, so you can use it twice in rapid succession. THEN it also got amount of targets CCd (launch) increased from 1 to 3
• 5th skill got reduced recharge from 30 to 25s

Why am I writing this? Because Anet literally made one of the Guardian's most under utilized weapons more than twice as powerful. It added absolutely extreme buffs without any counter balancing nerfs to pretty much every skill, more than doubling its DPS and CC potential, while at the same time adding even more defensive stuff like barier. It's almost a different weapon than it was a year ago.

AND YET! When I run around in WvW, do I see almost every guardian running hammer? No! Even such extreme buffs brought the weapon from almost never used to just sporadically used.

So you really need to stop thinking about balancing the old, outdated weapons so carefully that it almost changes nothing. The weapon balance in this game is much less fragile than you think, if more than doubling the power of outdated weapon design increased its use just slightly, instead of making it the new meta. If you are talking about greatsword revamp, don't be afraid to suggest bigger changes than just adding or removing 0.5 of something here and there.

Edited March 13 by SpaceMarine.1836

[Jzaku.9765]

On 3/7/2024 at 2:11 AM, ProverbsofHell.2307 said:

So at this point, after so long without seeing a change, I think Hundred Blades remains as a root skill because it’s too much of a time investment for the devs to make the animation work while the character moving.

And so I propose a small rework to the skill that would only need small visual FX added and would bring the skill into 2024:

First, increase the total cumulative coefficient (in competitive) to 3.5, increase the final hit coefficient to 1.2

Second, increase the animation speed so the cast time is a flat 3 seconds.

Third, split the damage packets in half. Hundred Blades is now a hybrid 600 range frontal cone attack, with non-projectile aerial shockwaves (as indicated by newly added visual effects) that travel 600 range ahead of the warrior. 

The melee component will still exist, and whoever is in melee will be hit by both the sword swings and the shockwaves, eating the full coefficient of the attack. Those who are outside of 130 range will only be hit by the aerial shockwaves, and in this instance, they would take effectively half of the attacks damage.

Quote

First,

Ok, coeff change, definitely a small change

Quote

Second,

Well, that involves the animation team, but still an acceptably small change, i guess

Quote

Third, essentially redesign it and make it a completely different skill

surprised_pikachu.jpg

[Lonecap.4105]

7 hours ago, Jzaku.9765 said:

surprised_pikachu.jpg

I did say a small “rework”, and it is small - the main animation doesn’t change, the root doesn’t change - all that’s added is some projectiles and FX to accommodate, the rest are just number tweaks. It’s really no different to how they added projectiles to gunsaber skills, which I assume was relatively easy.

[Fueki.4753]

11 hours ago, SpaceMarine.1836 said:

Why am I writing this? Because Anet literally made one of the Guardian's most under utilized weapons more than twice as powerful. It added absolutely extreme buffs without any counter balancing nerfs to pretty much every skill, more than doubling its DPS and CC potential, while at the same time adding even more defensive stuff like barier. It's almost a different weapon than it was a year ago.

So you really need to stop thinking about balancing the old, outdated weapons so carefully that it almost changes nothing. The weapon balance in this game is much less fragile than you think, if more than doubling the power of outdated weapon design increased its use just slightly, instead of making it the new meta. If you are talking about greatsword revamp, don't be afraid to suggest bigger changes than just adding or removing 0.5 of something here and there.

Using Guardian as an example in a discussion about proposed Warrior changes doesn't actually bolster any argument.

Guardian has generally been treated more favourably than the other professions.

Meanwhile, Warrior in GW2 has been treated far worse than every other profession for over a decade at this point.

Considering the disparity in treatment, just hoping that Warrior gets some positive scraps already is a lot.

Edited March 13 by Fueki.4753

[Leo G.4501]

20 hours ago, SpaceMarine.1836 said:

So you really need to stop thinking about balancing the old, outdated weapons so carefully that it almost changes nothing. The weapon balance in this game is much less fragile than you think, if more than doubling the power of outdated weapon design increased its use just slightly, instead of making it the new meta. If you are talking about greatsword revamp, don't be afraid to suggest bigger changes than just adding or removing 0.5 of something here and there.

But hasn't War Greatsword been, more or less, meta for competitive since early game? It was only after several years and an expansion did Axe come into the fray as it's replacement but never obscuring it until I suppose the last 2 expansions. Comparing Guardian hammer to War GS would be like comparing War Mace to Guardian GS.

That aside, a random over-the-top change of Hundred Blades for you would be just to add random evades during its channel (50% chance of evade every 0.25sec) + making its damage HUGE...like, players will die if they get caught in it (Period.) with the stipulation being, if attacking a target that isn't acting, they get hit with the huge damage. If you are acting, like attacking the warrior or using skills while he's swinging, you receive miniscule damage.  It'd be like one of those Dragonball Z flurry punch exchanges if the target acts during vs the Jojo ora ora ora ora knockout if the target gets caught lacking. Bring back the Bull's Charge + 100B quick downs.

[SpaceMarine.1836]

You are missing the point. The point is that even if the weapon get's massively buffed, it will be just moderately used, instead of underused.

For example, you don't hear people saying that Guardian Greatsword is broken or overpowered. Let's compare Warrior GS #2 vs Guardian GS #2 in PvP/WvW mode since balance matters much more in PVP game modes:

Warrior:

• Cast Time/Recharge: 3½/8
•  Damage (8x): 1,128
• Final strike damage: 323
• Number of Targets: 3
• Range: 130
• Hits targets in cone in front of the player
• Locked in place, fixed direction

Guardian:

• Cast Time/Recharge: ¾/8
• Damage (7x): 1,127
• Projectile Damage: 40
• Number of Impacts: 7
• Number of Targets: 5
• Radius: 130
• Combo Finisher: Whirl
• Range: 600
• Hits targets anywhere withing the radius
• Free movement during casting

Can't you see how insanely overpowered Guardian GS skill looks compared to Warrior GS skill, yet no one complains about Guardian GS being broken? This shows that the buffs GS needs are massive, and small number tweaks don't solve anything:

• Both skills have 8 secs recharge
• Both skills deal same damage
• Guardian GS deals that damage in 3/4 seconds while Warrior GS deals the same amount of damage in 3 and 1/2 seconds. Much, much longer.
• Guardian GS allows you to stick to the target to deal that damage, while with Warrior GS, it's impossible to imagine enemy player will stand in front of you to let you deal all that damage unless you are downed.
• Warrior GS deals lame final strike for just 323 by the time enemy is already not in front of you, While Guardian GS launches projectiles 600 units away during the entire short duration of the casting.
• Warrior GS can only strike 3 targets at once, and ONLY while they are front of you, and you can NOT move while casting to redirect that front cone somewhere else.
• Guardian's skill is also a combo finisher, Warrior's isn't.
• Both are core class weapons.

 I just don't have sufficient words to describe how ridiculous this disparity is. What I am trying to convince people is that we need more radical changes than just little damage/cast time tweaks.

I personally would not like it to become just another Whirling Wrath, because the direction based mechanic is interesting. Here's what I would do with hundred blades:

• Allow movement during casting
• Increase attack range in front cone to 240
• Increase max. targets to 5
• Give a boon or condi if final attack hits: For boons, possibly swiftness or stability, because warrior has some good related traits. For condi, cripple or vulnerability stacks would be nice. Or possibly weakness. I don't mean both boon and a condi, but whatever the skill design team would decide.

Edited March 14 by SpaceMarine.1836

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

5 hours ago, SpaceMarine.1836 said:

You are missing the point. The point is that even if the weapon get's massively buffed, it will be just moderately used, instead of underused.

For example, you don't hear people saying that Guardian Greatsword is broken or overpowered. Let's compare Warrior GS #2 vs Guardian GS #2 in PvP/WvW mode since balance matters much more in PVP game modes:

Warrior:

• Cast Time/Recharge: 3½/8
•  Damage (8x): 1,128
• Final strike damage: 323
• Number of Targets: 3
• Range: 130
• Hits targets in cone in front of the player
• Locked in place, fixed direction

Guardian:

• Cast Time/Recharge: ¾/8
• Damage (7x): 1,127
• Projectile Damage: 40
• Number of Impacts: 7
• Number of Targets: 5
• Radius: 130
• Combo Finisher: Whirl
• Range: 600
• Hits targets anywhere withing the radius
• Free movement during casting

Can't you see how insanely overpowered Guardian GS skill looks compared to Warrior GS skill, yet no one complains about Guardian GS being broken? This shows that the buffs GS needs are massive, and small number tweaks don't solve anything:

• Both skills have 8 secs recharge
• Both skills deal same damage
• Guardian GS deals that damage in 3/4 seconds while Warrior GS deals the same amount of damage in 3 and 1/2 seconds. Much, much longer.
• Guardian GS allows you to stick to the target to deal that damage, while with Warrior GS, it's impossible to imagine enemy player will stand in front of you to let you deal all that damage unless you are downed.
• Warrior GS deals lame final strike for just 323 by the time enemy is already not in front of you, While Guardian GS launches projectiles 600 units away during the entire short duration of the casting.
• Warrior GS can only strike 3 targets at once, and ONLY while they are front of you, and you can NOT move while casting to redirect that front cone somewhere else.
• Guardian's skill is also a combo finisher, Warrior's isn't.
• Both are core class weapons.

 I just don't have sufficient words to describe how ridiculous this disparity is. What I am trying to convince people is that we need more radical changes than just little damage/cast time tweaks.

I personally would not like it to become just another Whirling Wrath, because the direction based mechanic is interesting. Here's what I would do with hundred blades:

• Allow movement during casting
• Increase attack range in front cone to 240
• Increase max. targets to 5
• Give a boon or condi if final attack hits: For boons, possibly swiftness or stability, because warrior has some good related traits. For condi, cripple or vulnerability stacks would be nice. Or possibly weakness. I don't mean both boon and a condi, but whatever the skill design team would decide.

The listed cast time of Whirling Wrath and actual attack time are different. The fact that it has better AoE (360 rather than a frontal cone), is mobile, and cleaves is why it is better.

[Verdict is Vengence.6912]

The words "aerial shockwaves" gets my warrior blood boiling

[KryTiKaL.3125]

On 3/14/2024 at 8:40 AM, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

The listed cast time of Whirling Wrath and actual attack time are different. The fact that it has better AoE (360 rather than a frontal cone), is mobile, and cleaves is why it is better.

Zealot's Defense on Guardian is now also mobile and doesn't even have a movement speed penalty while casting.

Meanwhile also changing Deathless Courage to reduce strike and condition damage taken for the duration of Courage (6 seconds) by 20% in PvP/WvW when they already have essentially permanent Resolution which reduces Condition Damage by 33%, not to mention access to Protection which Crashing Courage gives access to both.

If Celestial stats on Willbender weren't already annoying enough...

[Lucy.3728]

On 3/6/2024 at 7:11 PM, Lonecap.4105 said:

I think Hundred Blades remains as a root skill because it’s too much of a time investment for the devs to make the animation work while the character moving

Remove/Change the animation?
I wouldn't mind either way.

Being able to move while doing that skill is the reason to use gs or not to use gs. Making gs a useful weapon or keeping it a fun weapon (while others are actually better).

They buffed the skill (slightly) with that last update but when everyone just can step out of it, any buffing is useless.
And even pve mobs do that.

Edited March 21 by Lucy.3728