Reaper with minions.

[Hashire Kazemeijin.6719]

So, ever since I was a young teenage fool who tried to play "E/N melee battlemage with minions" back in GW1, I've always liked the theme of a horde summoning Minion Master, but never liked the aspect of 'hiding behind the horde' that N primary MMs did; I always wanted to be fighting alongside the horde. Ranger obviously can do this properly with a pet, but that's just *one* pet, not a swarm. When Reaper first came out all those years ago, I had the thought that it was gonna be the solution for me if I ever actually got back into playing my Necro (who, granted, was a minor side character on my list of alts I'd wanna play more of). Went to go check things out when SotO came out and seeing what changes the build I had bookmarked made, but it instead just removing the minion segment outright when it updated.

I understand that it does less DPS than just pure Reaper, and I know the whole 'anything Berserker works in OW PvE', but if I wanted to play a "Reaper with Minions" theme, would I basically just use/copy the default meta Power Reaper just with minion utilities (including the Reaper specific one)? Or would there be a more specific rune/gear loadout better suited for it while still keeping it competent? And if the former, what trait line gets replaced with Death Magic?

Edited March 12 by Hashire Kazemeijin.6719

[Rvy.1478]

I'm currently focused on the main story or exploring the OpenWorld with a full minion setup as it helps with aggro from mobs, and I enjoy doing this solo. However, I definitely wouldn't use it for PVP/WvW or Dungeon runs. I'm temporarily using Death Magic for minions but plan to switch to Reaper once I have enough skill points. Also already using GS  (weaponmaster)

Edited March 13 by Rvy.1478

[Asum.4960]

Minions unfortunately just aren't any good, except niche uses for their largely non-minion uses (Golem CC, Fleshwurm projectile block/teleport, Shadow Fiend LF management). 

If you want to make them work as much as possible in OW solo play though, your big problem is going to be damage (as well as the constant annoyance of Minions keeping you locked in combat). Even with a full skillbar invested into all Minion skills (and even with all Traits dedicated to them), you need to be aware of the fact that you still do 99% of your damage while the minions are just roleplay - so almost everything you invest into your minions, and therefor not into you, will drastically make you weaker/worse. And not just a bit less damage, but halving and quartering your Damage or more with every concession to Minions that you make (as well as Utility/QoL).

One big trap for Minions is actually especially Death Magic. While Necromantic Corruption is nice defensively (and about the only good thing about minions in that regard - although countering incoming conditions to this degree is generally less important in PvE), the 25% damage increase on it for minions for example is entirely useless. 25% increase of nothing is nothing. 

So if anything, I'd go into Blood Magic - which with Life Siphons at least almost doubles your minions damage (to still near nothing, but hey), while also providing you and them with more staying power through sustain than what Flash of the Master in DM offers. Blood has always been the better Minion line over DM.

That said, Reaper does okay in solo play because (along with easy self Quickness in RO) it has both Spite and Soul Reaping providing 25 Might and Vuln solo via Reaper's Might in Spite and Unyielding Blast in SR - plus all their other various damage multipliers. Giving up either of them, for Minions of all things, is going to plummet your DPS massively. 

Without "Chilled to the Bone" and Dread in Spite you won't have a Fury source to Crit Cap either, further sinking your damage. 

Nor do you have extra Utility like Well of Darkness for trash Blinds and Damage, Spectral Grasp for trash Pulls, etc., which also help with Chill uptime for Cold Shoulder for another big damage boost (or loss in this case) as well as being extra CC..

Anyway, Tl;DR:

I'm not sure which out of Spite and SR hurts less to sacrifice currently, but if you do, then it's probably better you do so for BM rather than DM - which will at least also give you some sustain to make up for fights being much longer now with so much DPS lost. DM (Necromantic Corruption) + Minions can have niche use in super high Condi pressure instances though. 

Overall though, I'd rate Minions so poorly that they aren't even worth using for Roleplay - Minions are just that bad and annoying, but if it's so fun for you that it's worth it, then I hope this helps in any way.

[sdaugherty.1984]

Minions were a huge thing in GW1. It would be nice to see Anet make a true minion master build viable for WvW. Anet has always said play what you like. But that is impossible as the game is not balanced. 

[Dadnir.5038]

8 hours ago, sdaugherty.1984 said:

Minions were a huge thing in GW1. It would be nice to see Anet make a true minion master build viable for WvW. Anet has always said play what you like. But that is impossible as the game is not balanced. 

GW1 and GW2 are very different game, they merely share some background lore. Minion master build not being vable in GW2 WvW is not a matter of the game not being balance, it's a matter of AI not having the logical thinking routine of a player and not having access to active defense.

In GW1, playing minion master was all about generating minions and applying enchantments on them while managing your energy. That's not a gameplay that the current GW2 can reproduce.

As for WvW itself, the devs don't want minionmancers to be able to generate to many minions because it affect the majority of the players game experience negatively.

[Remus Darkblight.1673]

On 3/13/2024 at 3:34 AM, Rvy.1478 said:

I'm currently focused on the main story or exploring the OpenWorld with a full minion setup as it helps with aggro from mobs, and I enjoy doing this solo. However, I definitely wouldn't use it for PVP/WvW or Dungeon runs. I'm temporarily using Death Magic for minions but plan to switch to Reaper once I have enough skill points. Also already using GS  (weaponmaster)

If you mean to continue using minions you will want to keep Death Magic, that is where all the minion buffing traits are.

[Rvy.1478]

On 4/26/2024 at 8:20 PM, Remus Darkblight.1673 said:

If you mean to continue using minions you will want to keep Death Magic, that is where all the minion buffing traits are.

nah I fully switch Reaper  Power DPS + mix and match special specs.  

[Remus Darkblight.1673]

57 minutes ago, Rvy.1478 said:

nah I fully switch Reaper  Power DPS + mix and match special specs.  

That would be the sensible choice, minions are fun and make OW easy but it's far from a top tier build. You can keep Death Magic with other builds though, just switch from the minion traits to the Carapace ones, it's actually quite good.

[Nash.2681]

On 3/13/2024 at 8:31 AM, Asum.4960 said:

[...]

Anyway, Tl;DR:

I'm not sure which out of Spite and SR hurts less to sacrifice currently, but if you do, then it's probably better you do so for BM rather than DM - which will at least also give you some sustain to make up for fights being much longer now with so much DPS lost. DM (Necromantic Corruption) + Minions can have niche use in super high Condi pressure instances though. 

Overall though, I'd rate Minions so poorly that they aren't even worth using for Roleplay - Minions are just that bad and annoying, but if it's so fun for you that it's worth it, then I hope this helps in any way.

This in a nutshell. Besides some very niche uses, if you think about playing with minions, just ask yourself what you value higher: time and efficiency or roleplay and immersion. If you chose the first, skip minions, if it's the latter, go ahead.

[Sifolstour.3210]

On 3/12/2024 at 9:33 AM, Hashire Kazemeijin.6719 said:

I understand that it does less DPS than just pure Reaper, and I know the whole 'anything Berserker works in OW PvE', but if I wanted to play a "Reaper with Minions" theme, would I basically just use/copy the default meta Power Reaper just with minion utilities (including the Reaper specific one)? Or would there be a more specific rune/gear loadout better suited for it while still keeping it competent? And if the former, what trait line gets replaced with Death Magic?

 

[Tinker.6924]

The main problem with minions is the complete lack of control and there’s no way to stop them from getting into trouble. You can go from being out of combat to in combat in a blink because the pet AI to attack nearby mobs. 

the only way to stop your minions from attacking things you don’t want to attack is to mount up. 
 

 

[Rvy.1478]

In small, messy group PvP, it's a good distraction. I run with some Necro/Reaper minions from time to time; I always get fooled bit panicky from time to time, but the damage is a bit negligible. Also, it will occupy precious special specs (for Reaper). Maybe running pure Necro would be ideal, especially since I like running ranged DPS/staff.

Edited May 16 by Rvy.1478

[mirage.8046]

The only minions I seriously use a lot are flesh wurm and flesh golem. My queens. <3 The other minions honestly take up a lot of value that I'll be missing out on my other useful skills, so I don't like taking more than 2 minions. However nothing will stop you from running full minions if you desire pets for the roleplay or cuteness.

[Tren.5120]

Minion damage is too low, IMO.  It's easier to just run without them altogether.  It's a pretty high ratio, IMO.  The only time I run them is if I need to solo certain champs that are easier to deal with if the Minions are tanking.  They will die, over and over, but generally there are enough that I don't have to tank much myself.  So, it's just an annoyance limiter.  For some, the low damage makes it not even worth it.  Just go GS and tank it yourself.  You're still going to kill it a ton faster and move on with your day.

I think Ranger and Mech have a better class fantasy and gameplay experience using pets than Necro ever has...  Necro pets feel utterly disposable.

Edited May 16 by Tren.5120

[Gendalfs.7521]

Yeah minion play need some qol upgrades. When I reaper with minions theyre nice in generating lf so I can spin to win more but while im in shroud I cant see which minions are already dead. Passive/active mode for minions would be nice. More utility for minions wouldnt be bad, dmg could scale with armor and so on...

[Shaogin.2679]

GuildJen actually has a great Open World Condi Minion Master Reaper build. It is one of the builds I play quite a bit in Open World and it is very effective. Your damage is going to come from bleeds and poison mostly, and will require you to make use of whirl finishers inside poison and ice fields. Your minions will remove conditions from you and heal you, and the minions from "Rise" will reduce the damage you take. You will also summon a jagged horror whenever you kill an enemy, so you can have a small zombie army following you around. Also, when minions die, they'll explode into a poison field, which gives you some corpse explosion themes too. It is honestly really fun to play, really tank, and does good damage too for an Open World build.

https://guildjen.com/condition-reaper-open-world-build/

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

On 5/15/2024 at 7:45 AM, Tinker.6924 said:

The main problem with minions is the complete lack of control and there’s no way to stop them from getting into trouble. You can go from being out of combat to in combat in a blink because the pet AI to attack nearby mobs. 

the only way to stop your minions from attacking things you don’t want to attack is to mount up. 
 

 

Minions aren't the hyper-aggressive things they were in GW1.  They won't attack anything unless you attack it or the mob attacks you/the minion.

[Remus Darkblight.1673]

On 5/13/2024 at 5:18 PM, Sifolstour.3210 said:

 

If you're talking about being super lazy in open world PvE and just want to explore with your undead army fantasy then it's fine. To really get the most out of minions you only really need to be running Death Magic with the top traits, although Blood Magic also has some traits that allow your minions to steal life too. You can run anything you like on your third trait line, reaper included. Just do it knowing it's far from optimal.

 

Edited May 22 by Remus Darkblight.1673

[Joncal.9623]

On 5/22/2024 at 12:07 PM, Remus Darkblight.1673 said:

Just do it knowing it's far from optimal.

Which elite/champ/mob hurt you when you ran minion master?

I'd get it if you disliked the idea but to spew complete nonsense? The dude literally gives you video proof, guides and DETAILS on how to pull it off. It also doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out more bodies for mobs to hit = you have a better time surviving poop.

No one claimed a Minion Reaper/Necro was viable in sweaty raids/strikes/CM, chill the heck out?
For OW, especially the harder HoT HPs, this specific build is a beast and can easily walk all over them solo.

Edited May 26 by Joncal.9623

[Remus Darkblight.1673]

On 5/26/2024 at 2:15 PM, Joncal.9623 said:

Which elite/champ/mob hurt you when you ran minion master?

I'd get it if you disliked the idea but to spew complete nonsense? The dude literally gives you video proof, guides and DETAILS on how to pull it off. It also doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out more bodies for mobs to hit = you have a better time surviving poop.

No one claimed a Minion Reaper/Necro was viable in sweaty raids/strikes/CM, chill the heck out?
For OW, especially the harder HoT HPs, this specific build is a beast and can easily walk all over them solo.

Viable =/= Optimal

If it was optimal, more people would be running it. It isn't optimal. You just need to keep that in mind when building for it.

I didn't say don't do it, I didn't say it's not viable, I didn't even say it wouldn't be fun, or that it wouldn't be an easy build.

You're the one talking nonsense at best, and deliberately misrepresenting my words at worst.

Edited May 29 by Remus Darkblight.1673

[Shiva.2059]

As has been stated, have played with a pet out on very few occasions in niche circumstances only.  Not really a fan, but believe that they are of great help to newer players or those just having fun open world.  It's really your world to do whatever you enjoy in :D