Remove stability in F3 skill for Willbender in WvW mode.

[Valamano.4963]

Willbenders (Power/cele) are overperforming extremely. They have insane damage, mobility, and survivability. If you even survive their burst and start an attack they can easily run away, wait for cooldown, and try again if they are close to losing. Only a few specs can catch them if they want to run away. To make this class more fair need to reduce either mobility or survivability.

In my opinion, removing stability from F skills is a great start. It gives more opportunity for other specs to counterplay.

Edited May 21 by Valamano.4963

[Kuya.6495]

That just sounds like a thief. Just change stab for stealth.

Edited May 21 by Kuya.6495

[SleepyBat.9034]

1 hour ago, Kuya.6495 said:

That just sounds like a thief. Just change stab for stealth.

Right, because thief is equally broken.

[Kuya.6495]

Let me know when stealth gets gutted then.

[Dadnir.5038]

That sound like yet another cele stats issue. Why nerf around the issue when you could get rid of the root of evil and "fix" 3-4 overperforming builds all at once?

[Farseer.1349]

Dude, sorry, but WB is outplayed by Daredevil, Chrono, most of Reapers, Vindicators and many others. What's the point of mobility, of other have better defences? And you have lower health.

 

On Willbender you have to stop, if you want to hit enemies. And you don't have that great burst. Engi can do 20-30k insta burst with only 2 buttons. Can Willbender do the same? No. Can Willbender survive tons of CC? No. Does Willbender has barrier as extra health pool? No.

If you are beaten by Willbender, then you are not using good build in WvW.

Also I must reveal the truth. Guardians now have only 1-2 stun breaks, because stability is always instantly removed. INSTANTLY! The only guardian with stability is Firebrand, but Firebrand is too weak to kill anyone.

You are shaming yourself by saying you were beaten by Willbender. Willbender is easy prey now. After 1 block is over, Willbender is vulnerable. Willbender has only 3/4 seconds evade per each 20 seconds. WIllbender is not ivunlnerable while performing F3 leap. Willbender can be caught in the air. Greatsword 3(Leap of Faith) doesn't make guardian invuln either. You still can stun, freeze or knock back guardian which is leaping to you.

I hope you've gottteh my words. Right now guardian is the most unbroken class in the whole game. And the weakest.

[Farseer.1349]

On 5/21/2024 at 9:31 PM, Kuya.6495 said:

That just sounds like a thief. Just change stab for stealth.

Don't forget that guardian has only 1 source of stability with very long cooldown. ANd thief has many sources of stealth and evade. MANY.

M

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!

[Supernova Starr.2069]

On 5/21/2024 at 10:26 AM, Valamano.4963 said:

Willbenders (Power/cele) are overperforming extremely.

Me bad me no know dodge

[Orthonen.9470]

On 5/30/2024 at 11:27 AM, Farseer.1349 said:

Dude, sorry, but WB is outplayed by Daredevil, Chrono, most of Reapers, Vindicators and many others. What's the point of mobility, of other have better defences? And you have lower health.

 

On Willbender you have to stop, if you want to hit enemies. And you don't have that great burst. Engi can do 20-30k insta burst with only 2 buttons. Can Willbender do the same? No. Can Willbender survive tons of CC? No. Does Willbender has barrier as extra health pool? No.

If you are beaten by Willbender, then you are not using good build in WvW.

Also I must reveal the truth. Guardians now have only 1-2 stun breaks, because stability is always instantly removed. INSTANTLY! The only guardian with stability is Firebrand, but Firebrand is too weak to kill anyone.

You are shaming yourself by saying you were beaten by Willbender. Willbender is easy prey now. After 1 block is over, Willbender is vulnerable. Willbender has only 3/4 seconds evade per each 20 seconds. WIllbender is not ivunlnerable while performing F3 leap. Willbender can be caught in the air. Greatsword 3(Leap of Faith) doesn't make guardian invuln either. You still can stun, freeze or knock back guardian which is leaping to you.

I hope you've gottteh my words. Right now guardian is the most unbroken class in the whole game. And the weakest.

Yeah I would agree with this, it's really strong in PvE open world, and other PvE modes, but I would never take my Willbender to WvW. 

Firebrand is actually the weakest spec to play, even since it came out. The focus of Firebrand was to be anti-condi/scourge meta, but now that nobody runs it (which is the best thing that ever happened because pirate shipping was dogwater gameplay), there's no point. In fact, I would say the best guardian right now for WvW is core.

Now if you're talking about dueling in WvW you should probably go out and touch grass because pvp is much better suited to that kind of gameplay. Honestly dueling is just stupid anyway as there's no one size fits all build for you to kill every profession anyhow. WvW is more suited for people who want to play that tower-defense game GW2 has. 

Edited June 5 by Orthonen.9470

[Mindwhip.8057]

The over-tuned Catalyst and Harbinger are two professions in your Other category. I really think the problem is Celestial gear. It's way too easy to buff many of these professions with this gear.

[pninak.1069]

Cele gear on its own also is its own category since it gives more total stat points than other gear. so they could remove the remaining points that break the system. an ascended berserker amulet gives 373 total stat points while an acended cele gives 648. that means regular non-cele gear is 43% weaker than cele therefore cele needs ~50% stat penalty. same would need to be applied to runes too. sigil of stars is also an outlier like this.

[Saiyan.1704]

OP needs to brew a big cup of "get good".

[Jobber.6348]

On 7/27/2024 at 2:39 AM, Mindwhip.8057 said:

The over-tuned Catalyst and Harbinger are two professions in your Other category. I really think the problem is Celestial gear. It's way too easy to buff many of these professions with this gear.

Celestial was never a problem before they added Expertise and Concentration to it. That single handedly inflated its stats and caused previously unviable builds to start appearing since you now got Boon and Condi duration on builds that previously were not viable because of the lack of these crucial stats. 

Celestial needs to be reverted. 

[urd.8306]

On 5/30/2024 at 5:27 PM, Farseer.1349 said:

Dude, sorry, but WB is outplayed by Daredevil, Chrono, most of Reapers, Vindicators and many others. What's the point of mobility, of other have better defences? And you have lower health.

 

 

I hope you've gottteh my words. Right now guardian is the most unbroken class in the whole game. And the weakest.

Interesting theory, but as honest as I am I have to ask if some Chrono has cast "Delusion" on you, because a) Chrono is still in a terrible place right now and b) Willbender is an high S-Tier spec in WvW with maybe D/P Daredevil in a similar strong place.

 

[Kulvar.1239]

On 7/28/2024 at 2:59 PM, pninak.1069 said:

Cele gear on its own also is its own category since it gives more total stat points than other gear. so they could remove the remaining points that break the system. an ascended berserker amulet gives 373 total stat points while an acended cele gives 648. that means regular non-cele gear is 43% weaker than cele therefore cele needs ~50% stat penalty. same would need to be applied to runes too. sigil of stars is also an outlier like this.

If non-celestial is "42% weaker", then celestial cannot be nerfed by 50%. The more spread the stats, the more the total must be.
That's basic balancing. Specialist vs Jack-of-all-Trades-master-of-none.
The synergy of not spreading your stats means you get more out of a point of stat than when you spread them more.

Same with 4-stat who gives more than 3-stat.

But you're free to advocate for a slight nerf of cele.

Edited August 5 by Kulvar.1239

[Palikka.8249]

On 7/26/2024 at 9:39 PM, Mindwhip.8057 said:

The over-tuned Catalyst and Harbinger are two professions in your Other category. I really think the problem is Celestial gear. It's way too easy to buff many of these professions with this gear.

I tried playing cele harb for a first time (never played necro before) and just took build from metabattle. Holy hell its easy mode against many builds. Only one that gave me trouble was eles with reflects.

And that wad my first ever try on necro. I just tomed to 80 and bought skill points from wvw. No way does Willbender come even near of easiness.

[pninak.1069]

It just doesn't make sense to talk about balancing when stats apparently aren't the issue. But assume you could get a racing car and a car that well is slower, but more durable is easier to fix and doesn't get crushed as fast you'd still choose the first one even tho the last one obviously has more total specs? I think having a an equal amount of stat points is the best option for build diversity. so either buff 3 stat gear to fit cele stat count same with 4-stat combos or nerf cele and 4 stat to 3-stat count.

[Saiyan.1704]

On 5/21/2024 at 9:26 AM, Valamano.4963 said:

In my opinion, removing stability from F skills is a great start. It gives more opportunity for other specs to counterplay.

You've been complaining about WB in pvp for a very, very long time...

I could run only 2 trait trees, WB and Radiance and I bet @Valamano.4963  will still get destroyed by WB in WvW. I won't even bring a single Stability utility or trait outside of my F3.

This is how bad you, and every other single Silver player who QQ's about WB in WvW, actually are.

[Kulvar.1239]

On 8/10/2024 at 10:53 AM, pninak.1069 said:

It just doesn't make sense to talk about balancing when stats apparently aren't the issue. But assume you could get a racing car and a car that well is slower, but more durable is easier to fix and doesn't get crushed as fast you'd still choose the first one even tho the last one obviously has more total specs? I think having a an equal amount of stat points is the best option for build diversity. so either buff 3 stat gear to fit cele stat count same with 4-stat combos or nerf cele and 4 stat to 3-stat count.

That would make berserker gear gives 2404 Power, 1673 precision, and 1673 ferocity.
+74% power from armor/weapon/trinkets. Baseline 84.67% crit chance and 261.53% crit damage.
Only META would be power thief to one-shot everything from stealth.

And it's stupid to have a fixed amount of attributes from gear spread differently when it's 3, 4, or all stats. It would be unbalanced to do so.
Or you need to make the game have absolutely 0 synergy between attributes or absolutely mirror them.
Which mean expertise would only effect non-damaging condition. Cleanses would only remove non-damaging conditions.
And either remove precision/ferocity/toughness entirely, or make toughness also reduce condition damage and allow condition damage to crit.
And then have a kitten load of balancing patches to sort this mess.

Edited August 12 by Kulvar.1239

[pninak.1069]

On 8/12/2024 at 4:47 PM, Kulvar.1239 said:

That would make berserker gear gives 2404 Power, 1673 precision, and 1673 ferocity.
+74% power from armor/weapon/trinkets. Baseline 84.67% crit chance and 261.53% crit damage.
Only META would be power thief to one-shot everything from stealth.

And it's stupid to have a fixed amount of attributes from gear spread differently when it's 3, 4, or all stats. It would be unbalanced to do so.
Or you need to make the game have absolutely 0 synergy between attributes or absolutely mirror them.
Which mean expertise would only effect non-damaging condition. Cleanses would only remove non-damaging conditions.
And either remove precision/ferocity/toughness entirely, or make toughness also reduce condition damage and allow condition damage to crit.
And then have a kitten load of balancing patches to sort this mess.

they already did a similiar thing with %dmg increases of traits. it wouldn't be unusual for them. also they can set the statpoint limit so they could nerf celestial or buff/nerf the 3/4 stat combinations depending on limit set. think cele does too much. it does decent dmg, gives good survival and alone with cele stats sigil, rune and armor for example you can get near 80% boon/condi duration on cata ofc if you add decade station and dessert. and since they also work in wvw it isn't surprising that so many ppl use it. meanwhile if you specialize on stuff like 3/4 stats you pretty much handicap yourself. 

[sduFire.8420]

On 8/7/2024 at 3:40 AM, Palikka.8249 said:

I tried playing cele harb for a first time (never played necro before) and just took build from metabattle. Holy hell its easy mode against many builds. Only one that gave me trouble was eles with reflects.

And that wad my first ever try on necro. I just tomed to 80 and bought skill points from wvw. No way does Willbender come even near of easiness.

harb is weak on fighting the class that can stealth and/or creating clones.. e.g. thief or mesmer especially the shatter mirage. One reason is harb defense needs time to build up and most of the harb power attacks need a target, you can't attack if you cannot see or find the target.. shatter mirage can also one-shot you at the beginning. I do agree with you that for solo, WB is worse than harb. WB shines on small scale fights (needs some sort of cover when retreat) though. no matter what.. both classes still weaker than thief in term of solo roaming.. everyone knows but people just dont want to admit it.

[foxtrot.6902]

On 5/30/2024 at 8:27 AM, Farseer.1349 said:

Dude, sorry, but WB is outplayed by Daredevil, Chrono, most of Reapers, Vindicators and many others. What's the point of mobility, of other have better defences? And you have lower health.

 

On Willbender you have to stop, if you want to hit enemies. And you don't have that great burst. Engi can do 20-30k insta burst with only 2 buttons. Can Willbender do the same? No. Can Willbender survive tons of CC? No. Does Willbender has barrier as extra health pool? No.

If you are beaten by Willbender, then you are not using good build in WvW.

Also I must reveal the truth. Guardians now have only 1-2 stun breaks, because stability is always instantly removed. INSTANTLY! The only guardian with stability is Firebrand, but Firebrand is too weak to kill anyone.

You are shaming yourself by saying you were beaten by Willbender. Willbender is easy prey now. After 1 block is over, Willbender is vulnerable. Willbender has only 3/4 seconds evade per each 20 seconds. WIllbender is not ivunlnerable while performing F3 leap. Willbender can be caught in the air. Greatsword 3(Leap of Faith) doesn't make guardian invuln either. You still can stun, freeze or knock back guardian which is leaping to you.

I hope you've gottteh my words. Right now guardian is the most unbroken class in the whole game. And the weakest.

Little bit hyperbole there mah dude? 2, f1, 4 will get the job done on like 80% of players lol and far more reliable than any engi burst. Guardian is the weakest? You've heard of FB too ya? lol

That said I don't think willbender needs a nerf compared to the rest of the bs out there, in all honesty I appreciate it's one of few professions that doesn't rely on stun spam.

[Riba.3271]

Nah, they need to reduce the Flowing Resolve (F2) charges from 2 to 1 in WvW as well. So same as in sPvP.

[Ezrael.6859]

1 hour ago, Riba.3271 said:

Nah, they need to reduce the Flowing Resolve (F2) charges from 2 to 1 in WvW as well. So same as in sPvP.

Have you tried not being terrible at the game?

[Riba.3271]

20 minutes ago, Ezrael.6859 said:

2 hours ago, Riba.3271 said:

 

Have you tried not being terrible at the game?

Have you tried supporting balance instead of only playing FOTM specs