Roaming - How to against willbender?

[disForm.2837]

On 6/2/2024 at 5:41 AM, felincyriac.5981 said:

never had trouble vs willy as a cele harb, even in a 1v2 against two willys. Just nedd to survive the initial burst, which is easy with the stunbreak elixir that gives resistance and prot. 

This is one easy answer. Almost every WB will try to open with the burst, if you avoid that, it's basically an easy fight. 

Dodge, stun break, soft CC, then they run or die with a million conditions on them.

[Nash.2681]

Also funny: running some kind of Reaper PvE Raid dps build with minor adjustments. Dodge the initial burst, trigger their blocks, corrupt the stab/wait for it to run out, "Chill to the bones!" and shred them to pieces with a few hits. Ofc only works vs. the greedy ones that don't back off if they fail their burst, but it seems most Willbenders are greedy...

Ofc this is nothing for dedicated WvW players, but if you're lazy and don't want to swap gear and traits too much around for a quick round of WvW, it works just fine.

[Player.2475]

I'm just here to agree with what was already said. I usually run Relic of Speed so as soon as you take care of the immobilize and keep moving, the average willbender player will use their strongest burst skills without even reaching you. This will upset 9/10 willbenders and they will try to use all their mobility skills to catch you, at which point you can turn around and maul them.

[oscuro.9720]

How to kill willbenders: Make them have 0 health before you have 0 health. 

[ArchonWing.9480]

1 hour ago, Player.2475 said:

I'm just here to agree with what was already said. I usually run Relic of Speed so as soon as you take care of the immobilize and keep moving, the average willbender player will use their strongest burst skills without even reaching you. This will upset 9/10 willbenders and they will try to use all their mobility skills to catch you, at which point you can turn around and maul them.

Yea, helps if you can run down a slope or something when you do this.

The hard counter to Willbender are actually stairs.
 

[Oahkahmewolf.6210]

Moa them before the moa nerfs go through.

[urd.8306]

12 hours ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

Yea, helps if you can run down a slope or something when you do this.

The hard counter to Willbender are actually stairs.
 

Stairs are the counter to many classes.

[Nero.7369]

There are two things that power WB are usually good at: burst damage and mobility. And there are two things they are usuall bad at: cc and sustain.

- look out for the sword port immob, it's kinda their only cc and the most dangerous. Because of the lack of other cc you are usually able to dodge or block. And with immob you can block anyway.

- key is to avoid the burst, they are not coming from invis so you can see those coming

- Dodge skills that remove immob

- Resistance against that immob

- Blocks, wb doest have unblockable.

- Invul or Power Damage Blocking Skills > Counter Burst at the same time

- Speed Relic, if they don't run it themselves outrun them in best case with engi throw grenades behind you while they chase you. Also works great on fresh air ele builds.

- Ports and Range, axe thief and rifle deadeye are kinda uncatchable for a dual melee weapon sets wielding wb. Even on lb it's really hard.

- invis after initial burst avoidance to prevent follow ups and soul you can prepare to burst yourseld

- play thief lol. still my no 1 hated class. But mostly due to non interactive gameplay in general.

- Outsustain them. i have met harbingers, untamed, vindicators, catalyst,... who just face tanked the whole burst without blocks or evades and still survived with 40% hp and resustained themself. Thanks to prot, food and all those damage reduction traits. Mean while if they try to keep up the pressure they you can do enough damage where they can't resustain from so they  die or they run away. 

- counter burst: willbenders are squishy as well

- boon corrupt: rip their resolution and fury. So they massively lose their crit chance! Also corrupt their stability right after they used their Crushing Courage (F3) or Stand Your Ground. It's often used right before the burst. So you fear them and cancel their burst before it began. And then you can follow up with other CCs

- make use of the weakness condition when they don't have resolution 

- duel with a friendly Willbender and ask for feedback on what you could change

- final tip: play a class you struggle with yourself for some time and you will notice what they struggle with. Also you can check how to burst yourself, so you can recognize an incoming burst sooner. 

Finally a list of build/classes I "hate" to fight against as a power willbender myself: 

Perma Invis Thief Builds in general, Ranged Thief Builds with a lot of ports and invis like rifle deadeye, thief builds in general, fresh air ele builds, cele harbinger, tanky catalysts, tanky ranger builds like untamed or condi druid. Condi mirage. Dodge/block spam vindicator. Condi berserker, aegis block spam bladesworn. 

That doesn't mean that I don't fight those and it also doesn't mean that other builds don't have a good chance. It's just that I hate to fight it because either those kinds feel unkillable/uncatchable, are really really annoying to fight against, are absolutely not interactive to play against, or just don't make fun to fight against in general.

Edited June 4 by Nero.7369

[Mike.3196]

36 minutes ago, Nero.7369 said:

There are two things that power WB are usually good at: burst damage and mobility. And there are two things they are usuall bad at: cc and sustain.

- look out for the sword port immob, it's kinda their only cc and the most dangerous. Because of the lack of other cc you are usually able to dodge or block. And with immob you can block anyway.

- key is to avoid the burst, they are not coming from invis so you can see those coming

- Dodge skills that remove immob

- Resistance against that immob

- Blocks, wb doest have unblockable.

- Invul or Power Damage Blocking Skills > Content Burst at the same time

- Speed Relic, if they don't run it themselves outrun them in best case with engi throw grenades behind you while they chase you. Also works great on fresh air ele builds.

- Ports and Range, axe thief and rifle deadeye are kinda uncatchable for a dual melee weapon sets wielding wb. Even on lb it's really hard.

- invis after initial burst avoidance to prevent follow ups and soul you can prepare to burst yourseld

- play thief lol. still my no 1 hated class. But mostly due to non interactive gameplay in general.

- Outsustain them. i have met harbingers, untamed, vindicators, catalyst,... who just face tanked the whole burst without blocks or evades and still survived with 40% hp and resustained themself. Thanks to prot, food and all those damage reduction traits. Mean while if they try to keep up the pressure they you can do enough damage where they can't resustain from so they  die or they run away. 

- counter burst: willbenders are squishy as well

- boon corrupt: rip their resolution and fury. So they massively lose their crit chance! Also corrupt their stability right after they used their Crushing Courage (F3) or Stand Your Ground. It's often used right before the burst. So you fear them and cancel their burst before it began. And then you can follow up with other CCs

- make use of the weakness condition when they don't have resolution 

- duel with a friendly Willbender and ask for feedback on what you could change

- final tip: play a class you struggle with yourself for some time and you will notice what they struggle with. Also you can check how to burst yourself, so you can recognize an incoming burst sooner. 

Finally a list of build/classes I "hate" to fight against as a power willbender myself: 

Perma Invis Thief Builds in general, Ranged Thief Builds with a lot of ports and invis like rifle deadeye, thief builds in general, fresh air ele builds, cele harbinger, tanky catalysts, tanky ranger builds like untamed or condi druid. Condi mirage. Dodge/block spam vindicator. Condi berserker, aegis block spam bladesworn. 

That doesn't mean that I don't fight those and it also doesn't mean that other builds don't have a good chance. It's just that I hate to fight it because either those kinds feel unkillable/uncatchable, are really really annoying to fight against, are absolutely not interactive to play against, or just don't make fun to fight against in general.

All of this play issue and lack of knowledge of what your fighting. In comparison other classes willy isnt op in comparison to. Shadow art thief's , anything cele/ bladeworn. Reason everyone crying about willy cause most builds that they fight don't burst them, and there not used to it so they come to forums and complain. 

[Nero.7369]

Well as someone who mained guard, engi and mesmer.

I'd consider it a bit over the top for sure. 

Most of the time. And I think on a long term health basis they have to adjust the power damage in F3 and Whirling Light.  So the cleave burst damage will be reduced. Maybe a really really slight damage adjustment to F1, like 10% less. And maybe f2 should be only 1 charge like in PvP.

But then I encounter builds who face tank all my 3 burst combos. Without a block or evade. Combos/ not skills! And they still stand. And those are the moments where I think yea kitten it it's not broken if there are build who survive after I chained every damage skill. 

Same goes for the ton of condi application, I often feel those 2  charges are really needed specially against things like harbinger

But yea overall ppl are getting used to play against it. As they are used to play against shatter mesmers who also had crazy bursts since the game launched.

They shouldn't touch the weapon damage tho, this would hurt many non wb builds really hard. So yea still think overall imo the initial f3 damage and the whirling light should be adjusted. And it would be more in line. Same as many other things need adjustment. Cele gear. Healers being tanks at the same time. Non interactive gameplay without conters...

And I often think this game has so many annoying builds on kinda every class.. it could be considered balanced as well lol. 

Edited June 10 by Nero.7369

[Mike.3196]

20 hours ago, Nero.7369 said:

Well as someone who mained guard, engi and mesmer.

I'd consider it a bit over the top for sure. 

Most of the time. And I think on a long term health basis they have to adjust the power damage in F3 and Whirling Light.  So the cleave burst damage will be reduced. Maybe a really really slight damage adjustment to F1, like 10% less. And maybe f2 should be only 1 charge like in PvP.

But then I encounter builds who face tank all my 3 burst combos. Without a block or evade. Combos/ not skills! And they still stand. And those are the moments where I think yea kitten it it's not broken if there are build who survive after I changed every damage skill. 

Same goes for the ton of condi application, I often feel those 2  charges are really needed specially against things like harbinger

But yea overall ppl are getting used to play against it. As they are used to play against shatter mesmers who also had crazy bursts since the game launched.

They shouldn't touch the weapon damage tho, this would hurt many non wb builds really hard. So yea still think overall imo the initial f3 damage and the whirling light should be adjusted. And it would be more in line. Same as many other things need adjustment. Cele gear. Healers being tanks at the same time. Non interactive gameplay without conters...

Didn't consider that crying yet, greatly exaggerated for sure. But in general I always try to help if someone wants it seriously.

And I often think this game has so many annoying builds on kinda every class.. it could be considered balanced as well lol.

Something your not understanding is that if other classes were fixed not overturned then yes it's overpowered but since they aren't it isnt even close. There loads of builds that will destroy willy cause cele exist. If your talking power builds it's very in comparison to others but  you don't fight power builds you fight cele players 95% cause that's  what players play

[XECOR.2814]

On 6/5/2024 at 4:03 AM, Mike.3196 said:

All of this play issue and lack of knowledge of what your fighting. In comparison other classes willy isnt op in comparison to. Shadow art thief's , anything cele/ bladeworn. Reason everyone crying about willy cause most builds that they fight don't burst them, and there not used to it so they come to forums and complain. 

surely wvw is 1v1 gamemode. not like 99.9% of the game is cloud vs cloud where a single willy can delete a full minstrel support's hpx2 in under 2 secs at any moment and can invuln, blind, port, aegis to safety no matter how deep it is.  Not to mention what a group can do.
Some people are delusional i swear to god.
 

[Mike.3196]

4 hours ago, XECOR.2814 said:

surely wvw is 1v1 gamemode. not like 99.9% of the game is cloud vs cloud where a single willy can delete a full minstrel support's hpx2 in under 2 secs at any moment and can invuln, blind, port, aegis to safety no matter how deep it is.  Not to mention what a group can do.
Some people are delusional i swear to god.
 

If full minstrel is dieing to willy that's just a player issue. Lol cloud vs cloud you mean boon zergs everywhere. Cloud vs cloud are fun fights lol smh

[ArchonWing.9480]

4 hours ago, XECOR.2814 said:

surely wvw is 1v1 gamemode. not like 99.9% of the game is cloud vs cloud where a single willy can delete a full minstrel support's hpx2 in under 2 secs at any moment and can invuln, blind, port, aegis to safety no matter how deep it is.  Not to mention what a group can do.
Some people are delusional i swear to god.
 

I, too, lose most of my duels in minstrel gear. Though 2 seconds seems a bit fast. Can't imagine how you do in a real gear set.

[Sleepwalker.1398]

If you needed anymore proof of who is the favorite child....

https://youtu.be/Qcj71xtKGVo

[Mikhael.2391]

On 6/1/2024 at 11:07 AM, Catchyfx.5768 said:

Hello, any tips on how to not die against willbender in first 0,25 second? Or is there class that counters havily the olmighty Willy? I run Rev, Engi, Thief and always I die in first 0,25-0,5 sec even if blocking etc. and on new serverlink I didnt met anything else then Willbender. Please please make my life ezier..

Play thief and do to them what they do to you