every class is a different flavor of advanced warrior at this point

[Lighter.5631]

everyone is just warrior with some special mechanic, while warrior is just ...the base class

specially with everybody getting spear

hah

 

no wonder barely anyone play warrior anymore, why would you when you can play "warrior" but also have many other extra tricks to play with at the same time

Edited June 13 by Lighter.5631

[AliamRationem.5172]

Look on the bright side.  At least you aren't ele, which hasn't seen its fair share of group representation in any PvE game mode in 5 years (6 for raids!).  Apparently, "flavor" isn't a golden ticket after all.

[Lighter.5631]

it's like necromancer is supposed death magician, but you give them a greatsword and turn them into death warrior, or engineer into holographic warrior, or put the entire physical skills bar on soulbeast F skills, it's fine, elite specs are supposed to branch out right? and willbender?...

but some how anet keeps warrior elite spec basic, when you already have core warrior to be basic...

in other games, warrior branch out to be like dark knight/blood knight to add extra niche..like dark power..w/e design for more interesting skills..

but nothing..

and like ranger gets rampage built into their weapon skills...that's crazy, ranger mace alone gets more mechanics than entire warrior class..

[Lighter.5631]

14 minutes ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

Look on the bright side.  At least you aren't ele, which hasn't seen its fair share of group representation in any PvE game mode in 5 years (6 for raids!).  Apparently, "flavor" isn't a golden ticket after all.

to be fair, elemental warrior is probably the weakess(most niche) flavor, among all the death warrior, tech warrior, teleporting warrior, clone warrior, mystic power warrior, merging transformation warrior

regardless of meta, most popular builds among casuals are all warrior variant, reaper/holo/soulbeast/willbender/vindicator/daredevil, with only exception of virt, mesmer is probably the only class that has not completely branched to warrior, mirage is more thief type than warrior type, while the rest of the other elites are all mesmer magician type focused, should have been like this for all other classes

Edited June 13 by Lighter.5631

[draxynnic.3719]

9 hours ago, Lighter.5631 said:

to be fair, elemental warrior is probably the weakess(most niche) flavor, among all the death warrior, tech warrior, teleporting warrior, clone warrior, mystic power warrior, merging transformation warrior

Or, possibly more to the point, a lot of elemental warrior themes can be done on other professions. Fire warrior? Guardian, berserker, even condi rev to a degree. Lightning warrior? Engineer hammer or spear. Ice warrior? Reaper. Earth warrior? Jalis rev (combine with Shiro or Glint).

[Kalavier.1097]

On 6/14/2024 at 3:20 AM, draxynnic.3719 said:

Or, possibly more to the point, a lot of elemental warrior themes can be done on other professions. Fire warrior? Guardian, berserker, even condi rev to a degree. Lightning warrior? Engineer hammer or spear. Ice warrior? Reaper. Earth warrior? Jalis rev (combine with Shiro or Glint).

People seem to forget that Warrior is the class that doesn't need fancy magic or gadgets, While the other classes do.

Though calling everything variants of warrior is kinda funny to me. Attacking in melee doesn't make you a warrior.

[AliamRationem.5172]

My ele can use a melee or a ranged weapon.  All other classes can use melee or ranged weapons.  They are same.

[Lighter.5631]

31 minutes ago, Kalavier.1097 said:

People seem to forget that Warrior is the class that doesn't need fancy magic or gadgets, While the other classes do.

Though calling everything variants of warrior is kinda funny to me. Attacking in melee doesn't make you a warrior.

So what is the point of elite specs then?

how is dark knight/blood knight/dragon knight not part of warrior family that also has fancy gadgets?

and how is calling everything variants of warrior funny, there's a reason why i mentioned holosmith and not scrapper, willbender and not firebrand, holosmith and willbender are clearly more warrior type like than their original base class, that's not than just "attacking in melee"

While other classes do get "fancy magic or gadgets" they can also just choose to be warrior like and does none of those thing and just go pure brute force melee, but they can still choose to have those fancy magic or gadgets

while warrior does not have any choice, every elite specs are the same, every weapon feel the same, every trait does the same.

and what makes a warrior, you tell me, and what makes an engineer, necromancer, guardian, tell me.

what's funny is somehow there's magically all these non-warrior player comes out of nowhere and talk about something they don't care nor never thought about.

when i mained rev for HoT, holo for PoF and willy for EoD, as in taking them to raid fractal CM and clear the entire expansion PvE content and more, when these people can't even figure out how their main work.

Edited June 15 by Lighter.5631

[Kalavier.1097]

20 minutes ago, Lighter.5631 said:

So what is the point of elite specs then?

how is dark knight/blood knight/dragon knight not part of warrior family that also has fancy gadgets?

and how is calling everything variants of warrior funny, there's a reason why i mentioned holosmith and not scrapper, willbender and not firebrand, holosmith and willbender are clearly more warrior type like than their original base class, that's not than just "attacking in melee"

While other classes do get "fancy magic or gadgets" they can also just choose to be warrior like and does none of those thing and just go pure brute force melee, but they can still choose to have those fancy magic or gadgets

while warrior does not have any choice, every elite specs are the same, every weapon feel the same, every trait does the same.

and what makes a warrior, you tell me, and what makes an engineer, necromancer, guardian, tell me.

what's funny is somehow there's magically all these non-warrior player comes out of nowhere and talk about something they don't care nor never thought about.

when i mained rev for HoT, holo for PoF and willy for EoD, as in taking them to raid fractal CM and clear the entire expansion PvE content and more, when these people can't even figure out how their main work.

 

Dark knight, blood knight, and dragon knight are not things in Guild wars? It's hard to tell what you mean by "Warrior family" at all. You seem to latch onto the melee elite specs of other classes and call them "advanced warriors" but I fail to see how that connection is made.

[Lighter.5631]

4 hours ago, Kalavier.1097 said:

 

Dark knight, blood knight, and dragon knight are not things in Guild wars? It's hard to tell what you mean by "Warrior family" at all. You seem to latch onto the melee elite specs of other classes and call them "advanced warriors" but I fail to see how that connection is made.

Does it matter? i'm just talking about in a general sense, funny how you say these are not in Guild Wars, when clearly we are not happy about the approach Anet has to warrior, that's literally the entire point.

so you still haven't respond to me, what makes a warrior, engineer, necromancer, guardian

bet you can't, because you never thought of it before making the "it doesn't make warrior" statement, while all the other classes elite specs will break any statement you make, except only the warrior ones.

unfortunately, i can't tell you what's a "warrior family type" when you can't even comprehend the fundamentals and differences of classes and elite specs, which you never thought about, yet you still commenting about it

Edited June 15 by Lighter.5631

[Aaron.1294]

@Kalavier.1097same goes for thief - they don't need to use shadow magic

oh w8 ranger?? they can use nature magic right?

oh hey - a guardian - and he can actually deal dmg?

In core game - sure, right now we're far from what core direction was especially with the introduction of revenant (you know, heavy armor hard hitter that evades like a thief and use magic and stuff)

[Kalavier.1097]

9 hours ago, Lighter.5631 said:

Does it matter? i'm just talking about in a general sense, funny how you say these are not in Guild Wars, when clearly we are not happy about the approach Anet has to warrior, that's literally the entire point.

so you still haven't respond to me, what makes a warrior, engineer, necromancer, guardian

bet you can't, because you never thought of it before making the "it doesn't make warrior" statement, while all the other classes elite specs will break any statement you make, except only the warrior ones.

unfortunately, i can't tell you what's a "warrior family type" when you can't even comprehend the fundamentals and differences of classes and elite specs, which you never thought about, yet you still commenting about it

What is a warrior? A soldier/adventurer that typically uses the more protective "heavy" armor, and is excellent at combat. He doesn't need fancy gadgets or magic to be a deadly force on the battlefield.

An Engineer is a tinkerer and alchemist, using gadgets and tools to expand their options of what they can do on the field and using those gadgets to shore up weaknesses they have.

A necromancer is a spellcaster they channels the power of death, using minions or destructive magic relating to the subjects of disease, corruption, curses, or decay. 

A guardian is a magic protective soldier. Using their magics to support their team by defense, healing, or empowerment. The very nature of how they use weapons is altered by this mindset.

Elite specs? Okay.

A Berserker has tapped into a much stronger rage, while some lean light fire magics, their focus is on hitting hard and fast. A spellbreaker is a warrior who focuses on being able to disrupt the enemy, breaking spells apart over using magic heavily themselves. A bladesworn is one who does have some tech, but it's in the form of the gunsaber mainly, and their focus on using that tool to the best effectiveness.

Scrappers are more melee-focused Engineers, using an array of remote drones (gyros) to boost their combat effectiveness and support their team. A holosmith focuses on using holograms and their sunforge, seeking to maximize those tools. A Mechanist is entirely focused on their combat jade mech, and using the war machine to support allies or quickly dispatch enemies.

A reaper does use a greatsword, but their focus is on, again, that destructive magic. Cold and chill behind every swing, every arc of their ghostly scythe in the shroud form. A scourge leans more into fire and the decay of a desert, sand and angry spirits stripping away at the enemy. Harbringer uses necromatic magic infused with alchemy to create deadly shards they fire from pistols or vials of concoctions thrown at enemy and friend alike.

A dragonhunter focuses on area denial and forcing enemies to fight where they want them to fight, and pins them down. A firebrand uses ancient pages of power and magic to massively support their allies, or hit the enemy hard. A willbender focuses on agility and movement to control the battlefield.

None of the elite specs go "Oh it's just a warrior" to me. Even if you view the elite specs as a "hybrid class" of sorts, that is equal parts of both classes. I understand not being happy, but the other classes aren't "warriors". If I look at the classes and elite specs, I don't pick a reaper or holosmith if I'm wanting a warrior. I pick a warrior.

[draxynnic.3719]

12 hours ago, Kalavier.1097 said:

 

Dark knight, blood knight, and dragon knight are not things in Guild wars? It's hard to tell what you mean by "Warrior family" at all. You seem to latch onto the melee elite specs of other classes and call them "advanced warriors" but I fail to see how that connection is made.

Technically speaking, you could say reaper is a dark knight (I think one of their minors is even "Shroud Knight") and herald is a dragon knight.

Mind you, there is a degree to which those concepts are often on the boundary of warrior and something else. The "dark knight" archetype is often on the boundary between warrior and necromancer - ArenaNet chose to take it from the necromancer side, and I think that was the right call, since it means that you have multiple ways you can combine necromantic power with melee capabilities rather than slapping six utilities, a weapon, and a mechanic on warrior. Dragon knights are often somewhere on the boundary between warrior and elementalist - while thematically it's herald in GW2, there's actually a few ways to reproduce that playstyle in GW2, and some of them are on warrior. The paladin archetype is on the boundary of warrior and priest/cleric and ranger on the boundary of warrior and nature priest - we're just used to seeing them as separate classes because D&D came up with those archetypes before it came up with subclasses. GW2, I think, does have the freedom to decide whether those archetypes are going to be primarily coming from the warrior side or the non-warrior side, and in most cases it probably is going to fall more on the non-warrior side - if for no other reason than because they can only make so many warrior elite specialisations.

[Jzaku.9765]

OP touches on a decades old discourse known as Linear Fighter, Quadratic Wizard.

Like seriously this discourse is almost as old as the internet. Maybe older.

It's a very real problem, hotly debated, the core conceit of it being that:
In fantasy, it's much easier to imagine [class with magic] doing [cool stuff] than [dude with a sword]. However the argument is that this difficulty to imagine [dude with a sword] doing [cool stuff] directly affects game balance whether subconsciously or not - their options are far more limited just because "how would they be able to do that?"

Translating that to GW2 is pretty easy if you ask me. 

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

TBH, CORE warrior being simple but effective is fine, so long as it is truly effective. The especs should evolve that simple aspect into something greater though. Ditto for the new weapons the release. 

[Kalavier.1097]

14 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

Technically speaking, you could say reaper is a dark knight (I think one of their minors is even "Shroud Knight") and herald is a dragon knight.

Mind you, there is a degree to which those concepts are often on the boundary of warrior and something else. The "dark knight" archetype is often on the boundary between warrior and necromancer - ArenaNet chose to take it from the necromancer side, and I think that was the right call, since it means that you have multiple ways you can combine necromantic power with melee capabilities rather than slapping six utilities, a weapon, and a mechanic on warrior. Dragon knights are often somewhere on the boundary between warrior and elementalist - while thematically it's herald in GW2, there's actually a few ways to reproduce that playstyle in GW2, and some of them are on warrior. The paladin archetype is on the boundary of warrior and priest/cleric and ranger on the boundary of warrior and nature priest - we're just used to seeing them as separate classes because D&D came up with those archetypes before it came up with subclasses. GW2, I think, does have the freedom to decide whether those archetypes are going to be primarily coming from the warrior side or the non-warrior side, and in most cases it probably is going to fall more on the non-warrior side - if for no other reason than because they can only make so many warrior elite specialisations.

I don't see Reaper as dark knight or herald really as a dragon knight, personally. But the main problem I see in this topic, while being very interesting conversation to ponder is, what are we classifying as a "Warrior"? Are we talking themes? Gameplay? Combat role (damage)? What is the basis we are going from? The OP comes across as defining warrior as just melee combat/frontline stuff, but there is various angles you can take. 

In say, D&D or other settings I can see the argument where you have warrior/fighter as the base foundation, and then Paladin evolves from that by adding magic skills. But in GW2, (thematically and slightly gameplay), it's not the same. Warrior uses the sword, greatsword, or mace in one way. A guardian uses these weapons in a different way. 

 

I don't see the elite specs as "Advanced warrior" in theme or gameplay personally. 

[draxynnic.3719]

10 hours ago, Kalavier.1097 said:

I don't see Reaper as dark knight or herald really as a dragon knight, personally. But the main problem I see in this topic, while being very interesting conversation to ponder is, what are we classifying as a "Warrior"? Are we talking themes? Gameplay? Combat role (damage)? What is the basis we are going from? The OP comes across as defining warrior as just melee combat/frontline stuff, but there is various angles you can take. 

In say, D&D or other settings I can see the argument where you have warrior/fighter as the base foundation, and then Paladin evolves from that by adding magic skills. But in GW2, (thematically and slightly gameplay), it's not the same. Warrior uses the sword, greatsword, or mace in one way. A guardian uses these weapons in a different way. 

 

I don't see the elite specs as "Advanced warrior" in theme or gameplay personally. 

Broadly speaking, I tend to view a dark knight as a fighter-type who uses dark magic - reaper probably has more of the dark magic than normal, but I think it fits the bill. Meanwhile, dragon knights are typically fighter-types who have dragon-derived abilities - while herald, played straight, is channelling the power of a dragon to access some of her abilities. They may not have exactly the same characteristics as the concept from other franchises, but I think it's reasonable to consider them the GW2 equivalent.

I think you do raise a valid point, though: what exactly is a warrior? I think ArenaNet has got around the "linear warriors, quadratic wizards" issue somewhat fluffwise by establishing that warriors do use magic, but they mostly use it internally rather than externally. Which means that the usual thing of "a paladin or the like can in theory do anything a fighter can, but also magic stuff!" doesn't entirely apply: a guardian, for instance, is probably starting within or close to the norms of a well trained and physically fit individual of their race, and then uses magic to enhance their attacks, prevent enemy blows from landing, and to speed recovery from those that do. Warrior, on the other hand, is where you see feats of superhuman strength and toughness, because that's where they've focused their power, although some do dabble in specific applications of "normal" magic. GW2 warriors aren't restricted by "what a normal person can do", but are instead in the realm of a mythical hero - they can leap small buildings in a single bound through enhanced leg muscles, slam the ground so hard it causes severe localised tremors without invoking earth magic, throw a spear so hard it shatters on impact, and so on. This distinguishes the GW2 warrior from a member of some other profession who decides to get up close and personal.

However, this does naturally mean that you're not going to see flashy magical effects (with a few exceptions) because most of the magic is internal. Although I am inclined to think that "float up into the air and throw a spear" skill probably could do with some paragon wings...

Edited Monday at 03:43 AM by draxynnic.3719

[Verdict is Vengence.6912]

That's why I've posted spear needs to have silly big boy damage if it's going to be that simplistic. I'm talking harbringer silly type of damage.

The point of the warrior is to be a big dumb brute, but in being a dumb brute means to have big dumb brute damage.

Don't jip on the damage, anet.

[Lighter.5631]

On 6/16/2024 at 1:37 PM, Kalavier.1097 said:

I don't see Reaper as dark knight or herald really as a dragon knight, personally. But the main problem I see in this topic, while being very interesting conversation to ponder is, what are we classifying as a "Warrior"? Are we talking themes? Gameplay? Combat role (damage)? What is the basis we are going from? The OP comes across as defining warrior as just melee combat/frontline stuff, but there is various angles you can take. 

In say, D&D or other settings I can see the argument where you have warrior/fighter as the base foundation, and then Paladin evolves from that by adding magic skills. But in GW2, (thematically and slightly gameplay), it's not the same. Warrior uses the sword, greatsword, or mace in one way. A guardian uses these weapons in a different way. 

 

I don't see the elite specs as "Advanced warrior" in theme or gameplay personally. 

remember dicussions always go both ways

what is a warrior, what is a caster

necro/ele/mesmer are allowed to to melee head on with a melee greatsword or sword so what is a caster anymore, core is very caster for all 3 caster classes.

only with elite specs that turned them into melee classes, same with engineer, scrapper is ok, but holosmith straight turned engi into a front line bruiser that uses "holo" swords.

there's evolutions that break their standard class type, yet this never happens with warrior

[draxynnic.3719]

2 minutes ago, Lighter.5631 said:

remember dicussions always go both ways

what is a warrior, what is a caster

necro/ele/mesmer are allowed to to melee head on with a melee greatsword or sword so what is a caster anymore, core is very caster for all 3 caster classes.

only with elite specs that turned them into melee classes, same with engineer, scrapper is ok, but holosmith straight turned engi into a front line bruiser that uses "holo" swords.

there's evolutions that break their standard class type, yet this never happens with warrior

Well, the elite specs for warrior are arguably moving into other profession's areas. Spellbreaker has a bit of mesmer/guardian, bladesworn has a bit of engineer, berserker arguably has a bit of fire/earth elementalist. What you don't see, though, is a way to really make a decent ranged build out of warrior. Maybe spear will help in that respect, although it does have the mechanic that rewards being close (but there are a few of those across the game).

[Lighter.5631]

7 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

Well, the elite specs for warrior are arguably moving into other profession's areas. Spellbreaker has a bit of mesmer/guardian, bladesworn has a bit of engineer, berserker arguably has a bit of fire/earth elementalist. What you don't see, though, is a way to really make a decent ranged build out of warrior. Maybe spear will help in that respect, although it does have the mechanic that rewards being close (but there are a few of those across the game).

moving 5% with the most clunkiest mechanics is not moving

bladesworn literally has nothing that resembles an engineer other than the wordings, where's the kits, explosive types, the turrets, engineer is a class ful of gadgets, where are those?

they added explosive type, but there's literally only one minor trait that capitalize the explosive damage type that only buff damage, that explosive may as well not exist.

as lame as "hey we gave you teleport, but it's only 450 range", what's next? "we gave you stealth, but only 0.01 seconds"?

the only thing that ressembles an enginner is electric fence which they clearly just throw in there for the sake of pretending they are trying to make it look engineer like, because no mode ever touches this skill and literally does not connect to anything bladesworn does.

berserker is fire/earth elementalist is so stretch, i can't even..you may as well call warrior a ranger, because they both use blade weapon at this point,

elementalist is caster, there's literally nothing remotely close to a caster on berserker

and spellbreaker literally has nothing to do with mesmer illusion caster, and guardian, guardian is literally "protect/buff your team" type class, where's that on spellbreaker, i literally don't see, only thing that protect your team is wind that has 90 second cooldowns and only last 5 seconds.

i guess they tried, but 5% try is not try

Edited Thursday at 09:09 PM by Lighter.5631

[RedShark.9548]

I understand flavor wise why warrior is how it is. But i dont like how incredibly basic their skills are and how few things they do compared to other classes. Im pretty positive already that spear on war wont see play in any gamemode. I just dont see were a ranged power weapon would be used. Even in wvw, if most if it are projectiles its useless in zergs. And warrior is pretty bad for roaming atm and has been for a long time. 

[draxynnic.3719]

10 hours ago, Lighter.5631 said:

moving 5% with the most clunkiest mechanics is not moving

bladesworn literally has nothing that resembles an engineer other than the wordings, where's the kits, explosive types, the turrets, engineer is a class ful of gadgets, where are those?

they added explosive type, but there's literally only one minor trait that capitalize the explosive damage type that only buff damage, that explosive may as well not exist.

as lame as "hey we gave you teleport, but it's only 450 range", what's next? "we gave you stealth, but only 0.01 seconds"?

the only thing that ressembles an enginner is electric fence which they clearly just throw in there for the sake of pretending they are trying to make it look engineer like, because no mode ever touches this skill and literally does not connect to anything bladesworn does.

berserker is fire/earth elementalist is so stretch, i can't even..you may as well call warrior a ranger, because they both use blade weapon at this point,

elementalist is caster, there's literally nothing remotely close to a caster on berserker

and spellbreaker literally has nothing to do with mesmer illusion caster, and guardian, guardian is literally "protect/buff your team" type class, where's that on spellbreaker, i literally don't see, only thing that protect your team is wind that has 90 second cooldowns and only last 5 seconds.

i guess they tried, but 5% try is not try

Um... maybe go and have a closer look?

Bladesworn's whole mechanic is that they swap a weaponswap for what is essentially a kit that throws a lot of explosives around. Pistol's whole mechanic is shooting off a bunch of explosive rounds into the enemy's face. Dragonspike Mine is an actual, well, mine. Overcharged Cartridges are supposed to be used to enhance your next few explosive attacks, but you can also just throw them into your enemy's face. Engineer stuff.

Berserker has numerous primal burst skills that are throwing fire around or rending the earth, torch skills are reminiscent of fire magic on elementalist and guardian, and Shattering Blow is levitating a rock out of the ground so you can punch it at people. It's a pretty crude form of fire magic, to be sure, but you don't have your sword at someone and have fireballs coming out unless you're either dabbling in magic yourself or someone else made a magic sword for you.

Spellbreaker can generate a magic bubble that explodes on enemies when it bursts, another that reflects projectiles and doubles as a null field, a chain that pulls enemies towards it if they try to run away, strip enemy boons (and not just on the target you're attacking), and can unleash a barrage of magical blades (okay, offhand dagger is now a generic warrior thing, but we know where it came from). Now, I think it would be good if it did get some mobility out of utilities as well, but those are effects otherwise mostly associated with mesmers and/or guardians.

Now granted, none of these bring the full package - they're still primarily warriors that are adding a little bit of someone else's field to their own. If a character went full on with all the kits, turrets, and gadgets that engineers have, that'd be an engineer, not a warrior with most of an elite specialisation's worth of dabbling in engineering. If a character was throwing illusions around like a mesmer, it would probably be a mesmer. But the reverse is also true - the builds being referred to as "advanced warrior" because they're melee-oriented aren't all packing adrenal burst skills, banners, shouts, stances, and physical skills. They might have their own versions of a few of those utility types, but not the full kit, and in some cases the only thing they really have in common with the warrior skill type is that they trigger the same relic. Similarly, when warrior dabbles in someone else's realm, what they get is going to be no more than half a dozen utility skills, a traitline, and a weapon or two, not the full breadth of what that profession does.  

[Kalavier.1097]

On 6/16/2024 at 11:41 PM, draxynnic.3719 said:

Broadly speaking, I tend to view a dark knight as a fighter-type who uses dark magic - reaper probably has more of the dark magic than normal, but I think it fits the bill. Meanwhile, dragon knights are typically fighter-types who have dragon-derived abilities - while herald, played straight, is channelling the power of a dragon to access some of her abilities. They may not have exactly the same characteristics as the concept from other franchises, but I think it's reasonable to consider them the GW2 equivalent.

I think you do raise a valid point, though: what exactly is a warrior? I think ArenaNet has got around the "linear warriors, quadratic wizards" issue somewhat fluffwise by establishing that warriors do use magic, but they mostly use it internally rather than externally. Which means that the usual thing of "a paladin or the like can in theory do anything a fighter can, but also magic stuff!" doesn't entirely apply: a guardian, for instance, is probably starting within or close to the norms of a well trained and physically fit individual of their race, and then uses magic to enhance their attacks, prevent enemy blows from landing, and to speed recovery from those that do. Warrior, on the other hand, is where you see feats of superhuman strength and toughness, because that's where they've focused their power, although some do dabble in specific applications of "normal" magic. GW2 warriors aren't restricted by "what a normal person can do", but are instead in the realm of a mythical hero - they can leap small buildings in a single bound through enhanced leg muscles, slam the ground so hard it causes severe localised tremors without invoking earth magic, throw a spear so hard it shatters on impact, and so on. This distinguishes the GW2 warrior from a member of some other profession who decides to get up close and personal.

However, this does naturally mean that you're not going to see flashy magical effects (with a few exceptions) because most of the magic is internal. Although I am inclined to think that "float up into the air and throw a spear" skill probably could do with some paragon wings...

I can agree with the first, though I'd probably say those feel more warrior/fighter heavy on the side of hybrid classes compared to GW2.

I think a big factor in why guild wars avoids the quadratic wizards is it sets a rough limit on what the "Typical" adventurer can do. Mesmers can be insanely powerful, but your typical one (gameplay or lore) has a limit.  Though I don't think GW warriors can leap buildings (may be exaggeration on your part), it is nice that lore wise, warriors can literally be the entire range. A dude who has no magic use at all. A dude who uses enchanted gear. Or a dude who actively does use some magics (or has some "internal" magic which is basically passive from learned abilities and enhances them)

On 6/20/2024 at 9:17 AM, Lighter.5631 said:

remember dicussions always go both ways

what is a warrior, what is a caster

necro/ele/mesmer are allowed to to melee head on with a melee greatsword or sword so what is a caster anymore, core is very caster for all 3 caster classes.

only with elite specs that turned them into melee classes, same with engineer, scrapper is ok, but holosmith straight turned engi into a front line bruiser that uses "holo" swords.

there's evolutions that break their standard class type, yet this never happens with warrior

Necro/Ele/Mesmer heavily use magic in their attacks with those weapons and are primary above all else, using magic. A Mesmer doesn't use the greatsword as a melee weapon but as a focus for powerful offensive magic. The Necro uses a sword as a tool to attack from range. etc.

You have yet to actually describe "What is a warrior" and I did respond to you about that. 

What is a warrior, and why are these classes "Advanced warriors" Is it because they are in melee combat?