WvW World Restructuring System Poll

[MercurialKuroSludge.8974]

57 minutes ago, Stone.6751 said:

I don't understand why guilds stacked. Don't they want solid competition and good fights? It has to be boring for them too.

Since when has Competitive ever been about fighting?
People WANT to win, no matter how cheap the win or the method to win is.

You are falling for the propaganda that people want proper competition, most people don't.

[Stone.6751]

3 minutes ago, MercurialKuroSludge.8974 said:

Since when has Competitive ever been about fighting?
People WANT to win, no matter how cheap the win or the method to win is.

You are falling for the propaganda that people want proper competition, most people don't.

Well, I have been in multiple WvW guilds who are more interested in good fights than PPT. They will leave a map if they're dominating it and the enemy squads on it and will seek more challenging fights on other maps.

I understand there are some PvDoor PPT minded players, but there is also a substantial number of players who like good fights above all else. For them, that's the true WvW content and everything else is a bit of a snoozefest.

Edited June 19 by Stone.6751

[MercurialKuroSludge.8974]

1 minute ago, Stone.6751 said:

They will leave a map if they're dominating it and the enemy squad to seek more challenging fights on other borderlands.

Bit of a cynical take here, but most of us call that behavior "bored".
If the entire enemy map is your color, your blob is getting few "defenders" to farm, they just call it "no content".

It has nothing to do with "good competition", there simply aren't enuf enemies to kill and objectives to flip anymore.

[Stone.6751]

4 minutes ago, MercurialKuroSludge.8974 said:

Bit of a cynical take here, but most of us call that behavior "bored".
If the entire enemy map is your color, your blob is getting few "defenders" to farm, they just call it "no content".

It has nothing to do with "good competition", there simply aren't enuf enemies to kill and objectives to flip anymore.

Exactly, yes, it is boring. That is kind of my point. Even when there are enemy squads on a map, if the fights are lopsided in our favor, that's also boring even when you're stream rolling over the other squad.

Again, I would compare it to PvE players gravitating towards more challenging content over easier content. The challenge is what's fun and engaging, at least long-term.

I know the player base isn't a monolith and there are some groups who do like easy WvW content and get their kicks from stomping new players and squads they massively outnumber, but I also know quite a few who grow bored of it quickly.

Edited June 19 by Stone.6751

[MercurialKuroSludge.8974]

5 minutes ago, Stone.6751 said:

I would compare it to PvE players gravitating towards more challenging content over easier content. The challenge is what's fun and engaging, at least long-term.

Im not fully disagreeing with you, there absolutely are people who like challenge.

However, look at the PvE content participation.
Fractals are done most frequently within the "Instanced Content category", becuz it symbolizes profit.
Raids on the other hand, has a much smaller base, precisely becuz it is PERCEIVED as more challenging, even tho the Raid Wings get easier year by year due to powercreep.

So the playerbase of PvM and PvP still kinda mirror each other.
And in both, the people who seek Challenge are a minority, its just that what is defined AS Challenging changes.

Edited June 19 by MercurialKuroSludge.8974

[Stone.6751]

4 minutes ago, MercurialKuroSludge.8974 said:

Im not fully disagreeing with you, there absolutely are people who like challenge.

However, look at the PvE content participation.
Fractals are done most frequently within the "Instanced Content category", becuz it symbolizes profit.
Raids on the other hand, has a much smaller base, precisely becuz it is PERCEIVED as more challenging, even tho the Raid Wings get easier year by year due to powercreep.

So the playerbase of PvM and PvP still kinda mirror each other.
And in both, the people who seek Challenge are a minority, its just that what is defined AS Challenging changes.

Raids don't get done because you need to find 10 players willing to invest an hour or more with a pretty decent chance of failure and the party disbanding. There's also still a decent amount of elitist attitudes in raids, and many players would simply rather not. Enter Strikes which mimic the challenging aspect of raids without the time commitment and with less elitism.

But yes, of course players want rewards too. You know when I get the most rewards in WvW? When there are good fights. 

[godofcows.2451]

It's garbage. Who didn't see that coming? lmao. 

[Monchichi.9301]

From a mid-active server on NA in a WvW guild and now in a mid-sized alliance (about 200-300 people). 

My perspective so far:

Team chat seems much cleaner so far, generally about what's going on in the maps with less flame wars. I expect that to get worse though as people settle in.

Horrible start on Friday with people unable to que and some having to restart the game to sit in que. I expect this will get better as Anet gets the team matching systems dialed in better.

My matchup has Red and Green pretty even, but Blue is a bit more stacked. I hope this will get better as the system gets more info on how everyone is playing.

There were not many ques after the weekend and on Monday night we were able to jump a mid-sized group (15-20) around maps without having to que. Personally, I'd rather be a bit light than have to que all the time. But some others in the alliance/team are saying we should have more people.

There were still some people that didn't get their wvw guild set right, but I didn't hear of anyone who had it set that ended up on the wrong team. 

Overall, I've had a lot of fun and think that this style of wvw has a lot of potential. Hopefully, they can keep the skill/stacked levels together and there will be more opportunities for people to have even fights. 

[Zok.4956]

1 minute ago, Stone.6751 said:

Raids don't get done because you need to find 10 players willing to invest an hour or more with a pretty decent chance of failure and the party disbanding.

Just as a side note: Raids aren't fun for every player (just like WvW isn't fun for everyone) but the players who enjoy raids still do them regularly and have fun. That's why it's good that after such a long time there will finally be a new raid soon.

9 minutes ago, Stone.6751 said:

There's also still a decent amount of elitist attitudes in raids, and many players would simply rather not. Enter Strikes which mimic the challenging aspect of raids without the time commitment and with less elitism.

This prejudice seems to have been around for a long time. The same players who run raids also run strikes and there is very little elitist behavior. But let's not talk about PvE raids here, let's talk about WvW.

[utmastuh.6985]

It's obvious that modern Anet hates wvw and wants to kill it. Even an intern could've implemented a better system than this. We spent the last decade+ building up a sense of community amongst our servers and alliances, only to be shred apart in an RNG machine with no perceivable logic behind it. There's no way to group with my friends, no way to group with commanders/guilds I like without begging for an alliance invite, and if you somehow manage to get into an alliance you're ok with, you're shoved into a very high pop matchup where you're stuck in 60 minute queues and boon ball matchups. 

If Anet doesn't revert then I think the best course of action here is to allow people on a weekly or biweekly basis to choose the style of play they prefer so they get matched up with like minded players. The root of toxicity is differing goals or offset expectations. When you put randos together it always becomes toxic. 

Another implementation would be to utilize the decade of wvw data they have to fairly group players together and to split large alliances into their own matchups. Then players can choose boon ball gvg matchups or less organized roaming/ppt matchups.

Either way they need to look at things like skill, types of content engaged with, time zones, languages, commanders, etc... None of that was looked at as part of this rng machine.

[utmastuh.6985]

46 minutes ago, Stone.6751 said:

Well, I have been in multiple WvW guilds who are more interested in good fights than PPT. They will leave a map if they're dominating it and the enemy squads on it and will seek more challenging fights on other maps.

I understand there are some PvDoor PPT minded players, but there is also a substantial number of players who like good fights above all else. For them, that's the true WvW content and everything else is a bit of a snoozefest.

What you're saying is exactly why Anet needs to make a separate GvG system. When you turn an objective based game mode into a zerg v zerg fest, you kind of ruin the point of the game mode. The problem is there's more rewards and more fun when doing wvw pvp than doing ppt. Anet needs to fix that with a separate game mode and higher rewards for ppt.

[XenesisII.1540]

1 hour ago, Stone.6751 said:

They will leave a map if they're dominating it and the enemy squads on it and will seek more challenging fights on other maps.

Sorry but I find that hard to believe, most of these guilds continue to grind a map until the enemy leaves the map entirely(not really a choice sometimes when you're bringing 50 to a map and there's queues), but they don't leave just because they're "dominating them". If your guild actually does that, then good for you but that's the very minor exception, because most guilds only leave when there's absolutely nothing showing up to fight, or a specific guild they're hunting is spotted somewhere else, otherwise they're more than happy to grind pugs in an objective in the meantime.

-----

Frankly more guilds who are underpowered need to continue avoiding and stop feeding those larger guilds they know will run them over, or don't if you really don't want to accept the power of boon balling and numbers, and the rest of us will continue to have that opinion of your reputation of being suicidal idiots not worth the time.

[TheGrimm.5624]

39 minutes ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

Frankly more guilds who are underpowered need to continue avoiding and stop feeding those larger guilds they know will run them over, or don't if you really don't want to accept the power of boon balling and numbers, and the rest of us will continue to have that opinion of your reputation of being suicidal idiots not worth the time.

Hey! That village had an online posting saying that position was open! Someone's got to get it done. 

🙂 

Players will need to adapt, its just more now, or go old school if they remember how.

[Mistwraithe.3106]

4 hours ago, Stone.6751 said:

Well, I have been in multiple WvW guilds who are more interested in good fights than PPT. They will leave a map if they're dominating it and the enemy squads on it and will seek more challenging fights on other maps.

I understand there are some PvDoor PPT minded players, but there is also a substantial number of players who like good fights above all else. For them, that's the true WvW content and everything else is a bit of a snoozefest.

Agreed, I've been in multiple WvW guilds and the chat while playing was entirely about finding enemy zergs to fight against. There was the most frustration when there wasn't any decent opposition to play again.

But then I also saw the chat pre WR when they were making mega guilds and tbh they just didn't seem to be thinking through what they were doing because in every case I saw they were teaming up with some of the biggest potential opponents near to their timezones. This inevitably means they have less chance of actually having decent opponents when they play because they are all in the same mega guild.

So I dunno. I don't think it was just an elaborate act when we were playing, I think many of the WvW fight guilds genuinely do want good opposition but perhaps the lure of teaming up with the commanders of the other WvW fight guilds they know (who I guess are to some degree friends or close to) was too much? Or maybe they were just too dumb to think it through...

[Majstk.7986]

I want my OLD WVW homeland back and WVW back to the way it was and it's looking like a lot others do as well 

Also not happy with the way dailies where done, wish they would revert them back to the way they where as well. Your messed up a great game with those two changes.

[Skenkee.7145]

As a player that returns to gw2 every so often WvW was a very nice place with many familiar names. 
Right now, friends that used to play on the same server are split. Servers have language barriers. (French / Spanish on mine, and a friend was mentioning a lot of German).

The experience so far might be nice for high end WvW guilds that are active and might want to compete. But from a personal perspective of a filthy casual like me I lost my connection since I'm not active and devoted enough to join a WvW guild and stay active. But also do not care at all anymore as there is no 'server' I stand behind right now nor people I look up to and want to follow or roam with since we done it before and have fun shenanigan's 

[lindstroem.3601]

1 hour ago, Skenkee.7145 said:

As a player that returns to gw2 every so often WvW was a very nice place with many familiar names. 
Right now, friends that used to play on the same server are split. Servers have language barriers. (French / Spanish on mine, and a friend was mentioning a lot of German).

The experience so far might be nice for high end WvW guilds that are active and might want to compete. But from a personal perspective of a filthy casual like me I lost my connection since I'm not active and devoted enough to join a WvW guild and stay active. But also do not care at all anymore as there is no 'server' I stand behind right now nor people I look up to and want to follow or roam with since we done it before and have fun shenanigan's 

And exactly this is why this change will be the last nail in the coffin for WvW. What will be left most likely are the same 4-5 alliances hitting each other for 1 or 2 hours in the evening. Curious how long even they will find this entertaining before they losing numbers and fall apart because people are just bored of it.

[TheGrimm.5624]

2 hours ago, lindstroem.3601 said:

And exactly this is why this change will be the last nail in the coffin for WvW. What will be left most likely are the same 4-5 alliances hitting each other for 1 or 2 hours in the evening. Curious how long even they will find this entertaining before they losing numbers and fall apart because people are just bored of it.

That's if they do. Was saying before, initial placements are important especially with 4 week matchup trends. If the initial placements are off players need to do even more to deal with it. Likewise Comm Guilds/Alliances that overstack will also kill off their own content. Especially if they don't actually try and fight each other. 

[Stone.6751]

On 6/19/2024 at 11:59 AM, XenesisII.1540 said:

Sorry but I find that hard to believe, most of these guilds continue to grind a map until the enemy leaves the map entirely(not really a choice sometimes when you're bringing 50 to a map and there's queues), but they don't leave just because they're "dominating them". If your guild actually does that, then good for you but that's the very minor exception, because most guilds only leave when there's absolutely nothing showing up to fight, or a specific guild they're hunting is spotted somewhere else, otherwise they're more than happy to grind pugs in an objective in the meantime.

-----

Frankly more guilds who are underpowered need to continue avoiding and stop feeding those larger guilds they know will run them over, or don't if you really don't want to accept the power of boon balling and numbers, and the rest of us will continue to have that opinion of your reputation of being suicidal idiots not worth the time.

Some guilds will happily PvD and kill a few pug stragglers until the map is dominated. Yes, I know that not every guild has the same mindset.

However, it is true that some guilds would find that to be incredibly boring and recognize that without some good fights they're also not getting that much reward. What do they get 1-2 heavy loot bags from capping a tower when they could be getting dozens with decent sustained fights? Even if the fight is ultimately a loss, as long as they aren't getting steamrolled it's still more bags, more fun, and more engaging content.

So yes, some guilds absolutely have this mindset. Not all do (seen plenty of overnight PvDoor blobs from SoS for example) but some of the more fight oriented guilds absolutely seek fights above all else. To them, that's "content" and capping objectives is only secondary. Capping is more of a way to ensure content shows up to fight you. 

Edited June 20 by Stone.6751

[XenesisII.1540]

2 minutes ago, Stone.6751 said:

Some guilds will happily PvD and kill a few pug stragglers until the map is dominated. Yes, I know that not every guild has the same mindset.

However, it is true that some guilds would find that to be incredibly boring and recognize that without some good fights they're also not getting that much reward. What do they get 1-2 heavy loot bags from capping a tower when they could be getting dozens with decent sustained fights. Even if the fight is ultimately a loss, as long as they aren't getting steamrolled it's still more bags, more fun, and more engaging content.

So yes, some guilds absolutely have this mindset. Not all do (seen plenty of overnight PvDoor blobs from SoS for example) but some of the more fight oriented guilds absolutely seek fights above all else. To them, that's "content" and capping objectives is only secondary. Capping is more of a way to ensure content shows up to fight you. 

I'm not arguing they don't seek fights, I'm arguing that they don't always leave because they can dominate a map/group, in fact many will spend time hunting down those groups for the easy bags until there is no one on the map which they usually figure out when they cap a couple empty objectives.

Point is, they don't care if you're weaker, they only care if you're there to deliver bags.

[Chaba.5410]

1 hour ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

I'm not arguing they don't seek fights, I'm arguing that they don't always leave because they can dominate a map/group, in fact many will spend time hunting down those groups for the easy bags until there is no one on the map which they usually figure out when they cap a couple empty objectives.

Point is, they don't care if you're weaker, they only care if you're there to deliver bags.

The reason you have a hard time believing it is because you lack experience in participating in those guilds.  Don't know what their mindset is from not being in comms where their commanders usually provide rationalization for their activities.

Edited June 20 by Chaba.5410

[CafPow.1542]

I didn‘t read everything. I can only speak for my server.

since all the major guilds do their own thing, what was once my server is now scattered and gone.

i don’t mind playing random and with other comms and a few guilds are left but a lot of „known faces“ are gone with this. It kinda sucks a bit but it opens new ways aswell. Not a fan but not the end of all things either i guess.

[Stone.6751]

7 hours ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

I'm not arguing they don't seek fights, I'm arguing that they don't always leave because they can dominate a map/group, in fact many will spend time hunting down those groups for the easy bags until there is no one on the map which they usually figure out when they cap a couple empty objectives.

Point is, they don't care if you're weaker, they only care if you're there to deliver bags.

Yes, some do exactly what you say. Others don't. I've experienced a couple of guilds who ignore easy captures and when they're pushing around small groups they start look for more engaging and challenging fights.

Plus, the best way to get better and to gain respect and reputation is beating bigger and stronger guilds in fights. Plenty of commanders know it.

Edited June 21 by Stone.6751

[ArchonWing.9480]

Some guilds seek fights, but the thing is nobody is gonna advertise themselves as a ppt blob guild so the grand majority will say the seek fights and also depends on how they define one.

Other guilds legit can't count and thus always assume they are outnumbered and thus fighting.

And then there are many that have just drank the koolaid in their little circle and claim stuff they never nuthug any other guild; it just so happens that they've always behind 2-3 because coincidences!

The best is when they claim to have 15, but ignore all the green dots around them.

But this isn't just guilds. I remember a friend having a conversation about a permastealth deadeye that just ooc's asap who said that nobody would ever  1v1 them; gee I wonder why.

In reality, the WvW community tends to shun obnoxious behavior, but some people just don't get it.

So yea, some people define fights differently than you, possibly.

Edited June 21 by ArchonWing.9480

[vhiran xergo.7802]

I went from fairly competitive matches every week with smc constantly flipping due to fairly evenly matched teams to watching it stay locked down for one team and not being able to keep a second waypoint in ebg at all this week. I haven't even seen the smc lord this week. 
 

I thought the purpose of this was to create more balanced matchups instead of a gank fest? I disagree that it's too early to tell because the initial rollout should show even a slight improvement in terms of match balance but it has worsened. We still have the problem with mismatched activity levels in time zones. You'd think that the new system would be matching active players at every time instead of dropping a bunch of SEA players on one team and not spreading them around.

Most people want fights and those aren't happening much because one team is so lopsided that you just crash into endless siege while being outnumbered.