Antycypator.9874 Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 As the title say, this is all I can think about at this moment. Even with over 2500 power, stealth attack did 7k crit. 2,5-5k crits from other skills. This is that happens when you create Hybrid weapons. They're not good at being power weapons, and not good at being condi weapons, because they try to be everything at once. I'm really disappointed, because glassy thief gets the weakest weapon, while the most durable class like necro hits 3x more harder just with AA. You can see whole thief build and stats in 42 minute. And this is 100% PvE balance, (smoke screen has 25s CD, in WvW/PvP it's 45s). 13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mor The Thief.9135 Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 (edited) PvE balance also usually need to include 25 stacks of might and having Fury for 100% crit chance. On the stream the thief has over 500 Precision more which put it at over 90% crit chance WITHOUT fury which is way too much for power Thief in PvE, not to mention having close to 2k Vitality and almost half the amount of Ferocity, not to mention missing a lof of modifiers from both core specs and elite specs. So whatever damage numbers you see are definitely not indicators of any situation in PvE, wait for the beta next week to get actual real numbers. Only thing you MAY take from the stream are the coeficients of the skills. EDIT: someone on snowcrows discord also pointed out that those stats you see on the stream are AFTER they switched to deadeye spec which also changed their entire gear loadout, so whatever damage/stats you've seen on the tooltips before hand may have different stats altogether. Edited June 21 by Mor The Thief.9135 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antycypator.9874 Posted June 21 Author Share Posted June 21 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Mor The Thief.9135 said: Only thing you MAY take from the stream are the coeficients of the skills. 42:32, you can see the Hero Panel Power: 2564 Precision: 2285 (76,19% crit chance) Ferocity: 803 (203,5%) Vitality: 1593 42:16, Deadeye build, Critical Strikes/Deadly Arts set to power DPS. And if you pay attention, you can see sword skills with 885 tooltip damage, while spear tooltip damage on AA is 357. Edited June 21 by Antycypator.9874 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mor The Thief.9135 Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Antycypator.9874 said: 42:32, you can see the Hero Panel Power: 2564 Precision: 2285 (76,19% crit chance) Ferocity: 803 (203,5%) Vitality: 1593 42:16, Deadeye build, Critical Strikes/Deadly Arts set to power DPS. And if you pay attention, you can see sword skills with 885 tooltip damage, while spear tooltip damage on AA is 357. You can also see that they swapped the d/d weapons to a spear and didn't bother choosing any stats on it. At the start of the Thief segment, the Spear auto-attack had less than 357 being at 286, so clearly before they changed the spec to deadeye, they had completely different stats. EDIT: also from what we saw from the other Spear skills, it may just not even need to auto-attack at all, assuming you finish every attack chain and finish with a stealth attack that refunds Initiative. EDIT2: You can also see that before they changed to deadeye, they had NO TRAITS AT ALL. Do you know much damage you lose just by changing 1 trait? Now imagine removing all the traits. And when they did change to deadeye they didnt pick any trait from deadeye, and you can clearly see that the Spear stealth attack on the tooltip that it should do more damage by consuming malice, which it didn't on the stream because they didnt even mark the target... Edited June 21 by Mor The Thief.9135 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antycypator.9874 Posted June 21 Author Share Posted June 21 4 minutes ago, Mor The Thief.9135 said: You can also see that they swapped the d/d weapons to a spear and didn't bother choosing any stats on it. At the start of the Thief segment, the Spear auto-attack had less than 357 being at 286, so clearly before they changed the spec to deadeye, they had completely different stats. 2564 was after changing weapons. With D/D was 2874. It's Marauder's Armor with Divinity runes. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mor The Thief.9135 Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Antycypator.9874 said: 2564 was after changing weapons. With D/D was 2874. It's Marauder's Armor with Divinity runes. Which again are definitely no stats for PvE (when doing benchmarks, one should always have 25 stacks of might). Here are the stats from Snowcrows that a Thief should have with food/enchancement and no other buffs. And as I said, depending on how Initiative intensive Spear is, we may not even need to touch the auto-attack at all so whatever numbers the Auto-attack has won't change much at all. And regarding the Stealth attack, they didn't consume any malice nor did that have all possible modifiers, like Premedition and Relic. Power 3104 Precision 2008 Critical Chance 63% Ferocity 1531 Critical Damage 252% Edited June 21 by Mor The Thief.9135 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZvolTx.3165 Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 19 minutes ago, Mor The Thief.9135 said: consuming malice, which it didn't on the stream because they didnt even mark the target This is the part that got me. The people making and showing it off don't even know the most simple basics of how the class works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antycypator.9874 Posted June 21 Author Share Posted June 21 14 minutes ago, Mor The Thief.9135 said: Which again are definitely no stats for PvE (when doing benchmarks, one should always have 25 stacks of might) They weren't doing benchmarks. Just grab Marauder's Gear with Divinity Runes, Assassin's Signet, Critical Strikes/Deadly Arts build (and empty deadeye), and go test skills on a golem. Just smack the golem, no boons, no condis, no rotations. You will see that staff is doing more damage. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meridian.9103 Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 Everything we saw on stream is some development state. Doesn't mean kitten. There is really no reason to doom already. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vavume.8065 Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 Spear thief looks like a free kill to me, disappointed. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest.8479 Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 I think it's unfair to judge a weapon's strength based on power numbers that were clearly stated to be in a adjustment phase that they want to evaluate during the beta, especially when the weapon was stated to be designed as a primary condi weapon. They said they want to tune the power numbers so that it's playable as a power weapon, but lower power numbers don't really speak to a condi-leaning weapon's strength. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StraightPath.3972 Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 Numbers can get adjusted anytime. Far bigger problem is when weapon has no synergy among it's skills (warrior). 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
draxynnic.3719 Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 10 hours ago, ZvolTx.3165 said: This is the part that got me. The people making and showing it off don't even know the most simple basics of how the class works. They were showing off the pretty graphics, not the numbers. Benchmarkers will have the opportunity to bench it next week. Then we'll see what it can actually do (to a golem, anyway). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nero.7369 Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 Well for me it looks like a melee version of the axe. With potential high damage a lot of poison and immob spam. Already afraid of them to fight them in wvw. The combo system from gw1 assassin's there seems really great. I really like it and they should add this to many more weapons. The only joke imo is that they said they don't want the single skill spam, but I don't see to much break with that because the 2 slot is still the slot with the 3 high damage versions lol. In the end the numbers in stream and beta say nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vennyhedgie.5369 Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 Hard disagree here. I actually feel like this is, by far, one of the best designed weapons in the entire game. The way the combo attacks system is designed, feeding into also the 4 skill and stealth skill, while preventing deadeye from overusing it, is pretty kitten clever. Well done team, this one stole the show for me. Yes, numbers might have to be adjusted but that's trivial compared to the core design, and this one was mechanically the best one by far, even surpassing Ele (but not Weaver, what they did there was also very clever). 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noro.2879 Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 (edited) Honestly, thief axe and spear are the two weapons that seem like they have potential to make the class interesting to me again. Axe has some issues that make it difficult to learn, but spear is looking way more intuitive right now. It's one of the most exciting spears to me and all of them look awesome. Edited June 22 by Noro.2879 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vidit.7108 Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 On stream we didn't see damage with Daredevil's damage mods, i would expect it to be a lot stronger with them and also it looked to be doing maybe a little less power damage than i expect staff on core thief without many boons (or condis on the enemy) to do. That's not a bad place for the power damage to be if it's neck and neck with power dagger. Even if the raw weapon damage of spear is weaker the weapon has huge potential from it's ability to cast a 10% damage mod. Just about every damage build not using ritualist might be taking x/spear and use it as an opener. The condi stacks look really good as is and wouldn't be surprised to see it rival condi dagger, especially since it can easily cycle in panic strike, but again as other people are saying you won't know until people benchmark it to figure out where it stands among the other weapons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valchales.2068 Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 Well, everything I saw in the stream made me want to play thief again, even being ele main! 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zirou.8624 Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 Was a warrior,. but hyped for thief, leveled one, doing praticing on it, the hype is REAL, weak? nah fam, it's gonna go crazy 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roamzero.9486 Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 (edited) 21 hours ago, Zirou.8624 said: Was a warrior,. but hyped for thief, leveled one, doing praticing on it, the hype is REAL, weak? nah fam, it's gonna go crazy On paper it seems like that but speaking for pvp it's hard enough to get a full melee autoattack chain off on any regular weapon on a target. And spear requires you to not only chain for full effect but to get the chains they have to not be evaded or blocked. Good luck lol, I have a feeling the only real potentially OP thing about it is the spear's spammable block. Edited June 24 by roamzero.9486 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voodoo.3201 Posted June 25 Share Posted June 25 (edited) On 6/24/2024 at 5:07 PM, roamzero.9486 said: On paper it seems like that but speaking for pvp it's hard enough to get a full melee autoattack chain off on any regular weapon on a target. And spear requires you to not only chain for full effect but to get the chains they have to not be evaded or blocked. Good luck lol, I have a feeling the only real potentially OP thing about it is the spear's spammable block. Ye for pvp spear likely gonna be a joke as well. Hybrid = garbage. Not to mention that the two defensives you have is stealth after 3 chains (miss one attack and u gotta start over) the block only blocks one attack. Theres no ports, no blinds you get a leap and the leap doesnt even have leap finisher or evade? 😂 Edited June 25 by Voodoo.3201 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lithril Ashwalker.6230 Posted June 27 Share Posted June 27 On 6/25/2024 at 2:44 PM, Voodoo.3201 said: Ye for pvp spear likely gonna be a joke as well. Hybrid = garbage. Not to mention that the two defensives you have is stealth after 3 chains (miss one attack and u gotta start over) the block only blocks one attack. Theres no ports, no blinds you get a leap and the leap doesnt even have leap finisher or evade? 😂 Blocks 2 extra if it follows chain type, reread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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