proposed nerfs to power tempest

[the krytan assassin.9235]

first of all, i am glad that elementalist is finally being frequently used in instanced pve atm and i am not necessarily for power Tempest to be nerfed (although i'd have rather seen weaver/cata hit these numbers). Given Anets balancing history however we've learned that builds dealing >45k dps tend to be considered overpowered and therefore inevitably get targeted by the nerf hammer. I'd therefore like to propose the following balance changes to decrease the dps output of power tempest without harming any other builds (Cdps Temp, CAdps Temp, PAdps, scepter builds outside tempest). 

Proposed balance changes: transcendent tempest nerf: reduce Transcendent tempest dps buff to 20% condi, 20% power, Tempestuous aria increase dps buff to 10% power, 10% condi. 

Transcendent tempest is currently the main issue, giving grandmaster tempest an extraordinary 25% bonus dmge (+33 singularity reduction) from a single grandmaster trait. Reducing this dps modifier reduces the gap in dps between the Pdps tempest and the P+C alac dps tempest. Since Cdps tempest is currently not overperforming and CA dps tempest is slightly underperforming, it would be nice to negate the outgoing condi dps % loss  of transcendent tempest by buffing tempestuous aria. 

Please don't change the scepter skills, air overload or water traitline. they are not really overperforming right now. 

[Jski.6180]

Then there an dmg cap to pve yet there no def cap or hp cap or even utility cap making thought effects better to aim for in pve. Its fine as pve kind of an joke for balancing in an game with things like spvp/ wvw but it comes off silly to have dmg caps in high dps environments like pve.

You would be better off just adding more phases and dmg gates to stop ppl from cheezing pve as there no real way to balance dps due to power creep of gear food and even new effects wepon elite spec. Or you just run into add nothing new to change the game making pve super boring.

[Bladestrom.6425]

a better title would be 'proposed nerfs to power tempest in PVE'

[DanAlcedo.3281]

45k dps is the new norm. 

Everything under that needs to be buffed. 

Otherwise, why nerf Tempest when there are many others on that level anyway? 

 

[Zhaid Zhem.6508]

I think they need to buff overload in global, and nerf Transcendent Tempest.
Obviously +25% strike +25% condi -33% singularity CD creates so much gap with "support/DPS build" but also with pvp /OW where you're not able to loop the buff without alacrity/quickness. (*Yes it's 7% in pvp, which has already more sense)
+25% it's just insane, tempest is not the only one with so lazy concept buff/"balance", we should not have so huge modifiers in single traits.

Edited July 17 by Zhaid Zhem.6508

[Atoclone.4810]

1 hour ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

45k dps is the new norm. 

Everything under that needs to be buffed. 

Otherwise, why nerf Tempest when there are many others on that level anyway? 

 

Because we haven't had a nerf ele thread on a while

[Santo.2419]

See what you have done to us ele's Anet... we self nerf now...

[Dadnir.5038]

Elementalist community in a nutshell:

On a regular day: "We are bad!" We are bad! Nobody have it worse than us!"

When an outlier build manage to break through: "Omg! Nerf us to the ground! We absolutely can't have anything good!"

 

[Zhaid Zhem.6508]

We don't wish for nerf, we already know it will come.  It's the pattern, we can't have anything good.
Just, for once, it'd be great to get to the root of the "issue" and not nerfing every specs inadvertently.

• August Balance Update Preview
  Scepter/warhorn Fresh air TEMPEST is perfoming better than what we wanted in pve, so we're adding some nerfs tweaks to CORE traitlanes, dagger, staff,... in pve/pvp. See you in 2026 for Weaver focused update (0.75sec of quickness on dual skills (10sec CD))

 

[Jski.6180]

On 7/17/2024 at 9:17 AM, Dadnir.5038 said:

Elementalist community in a nutshell:

On a regular day: "We are bad!" We are bad! Nobody have it worse than us!"

When an outlier build manage to break through: "Omg! Nerf us to the ground! We absolutely can't have anything good!"

 

Anet is too easy to multiple into nerfing things that don't need nerfing and often they hit other effects when they do well beyond pve. Even this person who posted here is bating anet to do something well beyond pve. These forms i think often is more about social engineering then real fix and balancing.

[Awn.1327]

Fortunately, the damage on that build is very easy to adjust since like 40% of it comes from Overload Air. Bring its coefficient back down a bit and everything will be good without destroying any other build.

[bluberblasen.9684]

I don't play pve

But

Whats the problem that ele has one easy good build? Just don't nerf anything...

🤒

[VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.]

nah, tempest is fine. Buff weaver and cata. With all those kitten we have to deal with, we should do massive numbers. In fact, buff tempest as well. 

As long as dps mecha, dps rangers etc are viable, ele needs buffs. 

[zeyeti.8347]

oh c'mon we finally got a non piano crazy keyboard demolishing rotation for elementalist , it's finally going out of the shadows in pve , it's slightly performing better than  the 45k roof bench (46k...) and it has some support integrated in it while still sucking at cc , ... anet said they gonna look at the playrate ... so they did ! now they need to continue that way and look into e-specs who are literally left over , like mirage , Dh , willbender , weaver , catalyst , bladesworn etc etc... no need to boost the damage , but some Qol should be appreciated.

And if nerf need to happen to the new FA tempest , they should only lower the dmg ratio off air overload a bit , to make it just at 45k , if that is the real intention.

On 7/17/2024 at 11:20 PM, Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:

We don't wish for nerf, we already know it will come.  It's the pattern, we can't have anything good.
Just, for once, it'd be great to get to the root of the "issue" and not nerfing every specs inadvertently.

• August Balance Update Preview
  Scepter/warhorn Fresh air TEMPEST is perfoming better than what we wanted in pve, so we're adding some nerfs tweaks to CORE traitlanes, dagger, staff,... in pve/pvp. See you in 2026 for Weaver focused update (0.75sec of quickness on dual skills (10sec CD))

 

That's exactly what i expect to see , + transcendent tempest nerf from 25% to +15% dmg ... hell no plz , it's air overload who is slightly too powerfull , and by slightly , i mean slightly ... dimibshing the ratio from 0,951 to somewhat 0,900 or a bit below should do enough.

 

 

 

Edited July 23 by zeyeti.8347

[ZephidelGRS.9520]

At my last Marionette, there were exactly 2 Ele players in the squad. 2 out of 50. We even joked about it, have Elementalists finally gone extinct? Meanwhile, Ele player on forum: “nerf us pls”.

I don’t see how 46k is a problem if 2 out of 50 even play the class. I thought we were moving away from balancing around the kitty golem, or am I wrong?

Edited July 23 by ZephidelGRS.9520

[Bladestrom.6425]

1 hour ago, ZephidelGRS.9520 said:

At my last Marionette, there were exactly 2 Ele players in the squad. 2 out of 50. We even joked about it, have Elementalists finally gone extinct? Meanwhile, Ele player on forum: “nerf us pls”.

I don’t see how 46k is a problem if 2 out of 50 even play the class. I thought we were moving away from balancing around the kitty golem, or am I wrong?

its also 46k on a target dummy or a npc that only affect dps meter warriors, i.e people who worry more about other peoples dps then their own.

Edited July 23 by Bladestrom.6425

[DanAlcedo.3281]

4 hours ago, ZephidelGRS.9520 said:

At my last Marionette, there were exactly 2 Ele players in the squad. 2 out of 50. We even joked about it, have Elementalists finally gone extinct? Meanwhile, Ele player on forum: “nerf us pls”.

I don’t see how 46k is a problem if 2 out of 50 even play the class. I thought we were moving away from balancing around the kitty golem, or am I wrong?

That's more about the fact that Ele is made out of paper. 

One wrong look from a champ and it's downstate time. 

Me on warrior can just facetank everything and just play. Eles need to be aware 24/7.

[Sweetbread.3678]

If kitten like cVirt is gonna keep pulling 42k then I don't really mind Ele benching 45k-46k. HOWEVER, the Ele spec doing that probably shouldn't be the easiest one to play with the most baked in support; it's not just about class vs class balance, but also between the specs of the class itself. It was whatever before Weapon Mastery, but something's gotta give or Weaver and Cata options are gonna keep getting nuked to reign Tempest in.

On 7/17/2024 at 7:50 AM, Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:

I think they need to buff overload in global, and nerf Transcendent Tempest.
Obviously +25% strike +25% condi -33% singularity CD creates so much gap with "support/DPS build" but also with pvp /OW where you're not able to loop the buff without alacrity/quickness. (*Yes it's 7% in pvp, which has already more sense)
+25% it's just insane, tempest is not the only one with so lazy concept buff/"balance", we should not have so huge modifiers in single traits.

Agreed. The other issue I see is that Tempest is the only Ele espec that has an additional, use-at-will, high damage skill as its mechanic. Throw too much dps onto Overload and it makes something like Hammer overperform like crazy, throw too much damage into the Transcendent Tempest buff and every other weapon goes nuts. It gets even worse due to Overloads being duration channels that allows Tempests to ignore weapon cooldowns in a way that the other specs can't. For example, pistol: any other spec using pistol would basically do it's Fire 2b > 3 combo and then  immediately switch because the autos are generally too terrible to justify waiting out cooldowns; a Tempest, however, can go in and do Fire 2b > 3 > overload > (offhand/utility filler) > 2b > 3 with only 1ish autos worth of dead space in the rotation. Where another spec would have dead space to fill with autos, Tempest can just wait out cooldowns without a damage loss by channeling a high dps Overload for 2-4 seconds.

[oCynder.5136]

Power temp finally gets to shine which doesn't necessarily need a nerf. Power temp still suffers in a way that other DPS can still do better. It all depends on what boss you are mainly fighting on. If it's on a moving target, it will perform worse. It still has low amounts of CC if you are focusing more on the DPS side of things.

Eles do have a higher skill cap when it comes to when you should overload and when you should not. Imagine that you're about to be CC'd and your supports don't give stab while in a middle of overload. Well, there goes your damage and overload air. Done.

You need to run away? You can overload but you would be taking damage. Take a look at OLC specifically green boss. Try to overload air while running away and hoping that you don't die too fast. Pray on your healers. Dhuum while getting sucked in for greaters? Same thing, you are risking it and hopefully you get the max range overload air without killing yourself. If you are NOT upkeeping the buff, you are losing overall damage. Any breaks/phases/invuls will cause this easily. Not all bosses are made equally.

I don't like how everyone looks at the damage numbers on golem but DO NOT PUT IT INTO PRACTICE. It's ridiculous. *gasps* HIGH NUMBERS, BETTER NERF!