Swap character in pvp after enter match shouldn't be allowed, am i the only one with this opinion???

[benshi.2389]

several time i get into a match where team are balance and then someone start to swap character, last one ended up with 2 reaper and 2 willbenders against us, we were destroyed obviously, am i the only one thinking this shouldn't happen?

[Last Crab.6054]

the matchmaker itself does not make bad matchups, those double this and that are often from players swapping during map select or duo q.

class swap should not be allowed.

play the hand you are delt.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

1 hour ago, Last Crab.6054 said:

the matchmaker itself does not make bad matchups

lol, it defo does.

When you Q it tries to match you with your class on opps, that alone leads to people abusing it and switching to counter classes after match start.  

Downside of this is if they remove it, we gonna get like 4-5 one class teams against none of that class, which is equally as bad.  

Middle ground may be letting you see a comp prior to spawning into a map.  No changing classes after / mid-match either, let people see before then lock it down once game starts.  At least then when people try to game the matchmaker it won't take up precious time waiting for them to come back as the match start timer counts down.  

[Marxx.5021]

Anet is a big fan of match manipulation. They allow those things on purpose.

[maxwelgm.4315]

Players are allowed to queue from outside of HotM (which is how a few end up downed in the conquest map) so there would have to be a cutoff there anyway (or force them to play with the same class they want to PvP with, which I think is fair), but otherwise, looking only at match quality, it would definitely be better too. As much as it seems bad to claim Anet is allowing match manipulation tactics on purpose, the sheer amount of time where we had duoQ+class matching has been too long for anyone to seriously claim they didn't notice it, especially Anet.

[Frequency.6407]

Matchmaker tries to match classes on both teams. Even pitting, for example, a silver engi against a plat one.

But players have the choice to swap class.

There is a 1 min. min-PVP encounter before the match where you bait, counter-bait, pretend to switch, switch and counter switch classes/specs that can give you a favourable edge in the match.

[Malus.2184]

6 hours ago, Last Crab.6054 said:

the matchmaker itself does not make bad matchups, those double this and that are often from players swapping during map select or duo q.

class swap should not be allowed.

play the hand you are delt.

Are you insane? If new players are placed against Silver they get stomped without having a chance. This gives an extremely frustrating experience where they just quit.

I would rather wait longer in the queue and have a fun matchup than get in fast and either get destroyed or destroy the enemy team. If you want fights like that I think single-player gamers are more your speed.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

10 hours ago, benshi.2389 said:

several time i get into a match where team are balance and then someone start to swap character, last one ended up with 2 reaper and 2 willbenders against us, we were destroyed obviously, am i the only one thinking this shouldn't happen?

Yes you are the only one that feels this way.

Most of us agree, and I've seen people say this in other threads, that there should actually be a box that pops up a couple of times during the match, like 3 minutes in and 6 minutes in, that prompts players and asks them "Do you want to swap classes?" to help encourage players to often swap classes mid match.

Edited July 20 by Trevor Boyer.6524

[Khalisto.5780]

What did you learn today?

Pick a class you like

, find a class that you do well against,

q up as this class

Swap to your class

 

Another swaping tip

You know that teammate that is really bad and always seem to be your team?

 

Q as the same class as him, that makes a really high chance he goes to enemy team 😉

[Zekent.3652]

Matchmaking itself avoids class stacking

Being able to swap class is dumb

And this game has a problem with this part of the PvP

For a competitive gamemode with rankeds, they sure don't care

[Saiyan.1704]

On 7/20/2024 at 4:42 AM, Malus.2184 said:

I would rather wait longer in the queue and have a fun matchup than get in fast and either get destroyed or destroy the enemy team.

Is that not what's currently happening? 🤔 

This has been said a plethora of times already but the devs gave us the vote option to either allow class swapping, or disallow it. I wanted it to be static 100% of the time because I wanted an individual class leaderboard system similiar to what Dark and Darker has.

Aside from that... there's other matchmaking issues that needs fixing instead of us talking about whether or not duoQ should be removed.

Edited July 22 by Saiyan.1704

[Last Crab.6054]

18 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

lol, it defo does.

When you Q it tries to match you with your class on opps, that alone leads to people abusing it and switching to counter classes after match start.  

Downside of this is if they remove it, we gonna get like 4-5 one class teams against none of that class, which is equally as bad.  

Middle ground may be letting you see a comp prior to spawning into a map.  No changing classes after / mid-match either, let people see before then lock it down once game starts.  At least then when people try to game the matchmaker it won't take up precious time waiting for them to come back as the match start timer counts down.  

Quote the whole thing, because one of my lines has a rebuttal to this.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

1 hour ago, Last Crab.6054 said:

Quote the whole thing, because one of my lines has a rebuttal to this.

Which one? 

Swapping classes pre-match or duo q has little do to with the matchmaker making bad matches on its own.  That was what I was replying to, as sure swapping classes pre-map load or pre-game creates some imbalanced setups, but even if that doesn't happen the matchmaker still tends to make some awful matches.

So, you can't say 'the matchmaker doesn't make bad matches', as it's patently false.  

[Last Crab.6054]

2 minutes ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

Which one? 

Swapping classes pre-match or duo q has little do to with the matchmaker making bad matches on its own.  That was what I was replying to, as sure swapping classes pre-map load or pre-game creates some imbalanced setups, but even if that doesn't happen the matchmaker still tends to make some awful matches.

So, you can't say 'the matchmaker doesn't make bad matches', as it's patently false.  

it doesn't make bad matchups. 

unfortunately things like mesmer and ranger exist in the game, so there will always be bad matches.

but, all things set equal, the matchmaker does not make bad matchups, that is on the balance or lack there of.

patently true, and its made worse by swapping pre match

[Flowki.7194]

It isn't uncommon to get 2 thieves/spb on 1 team, and when support was more used, to see tempest/gaurd on one team. The match making should be hard capping that at all times so it never happens, and in that way there would be no justifiable reason for class/spec swap. People wanting class/spec swaps just to pick cheap counters are sweaty no lifers, but im sure they will find some way to justify why it isn't cheap and sweaty, gw2 is the biggest coper base ever. There is no justification in forcing people to have to multi class/spec to keep up with those sweats, or to just be at a massive dissadvantedge otherwise.

 

Edited July 21 by Flowki.7194

[Last Crab.6054]

13 minutes ago, Flowki.7194 said:

It isn't uncommon to get 2 thieves/spb on 1 team, and when support was more used, to see tempest/gaurd on one team. The match making should be hard capping that at all times so it never happens, and in that way there would be no justifiable reason for class/spec swap. People wanting class/spec swaps just to pick cheap counters are sweaty no lifers, but im sure they will find some way to justify why it isn't cheap and sweaty, gw2 is the biggest coper base ever. There is no justification in forcing people to have to multi class/spec to keep up with those sweats, or to just be at a massive dissadvantedge otherwise.

 

most of the double classes comes from swapping during map select, remove class swap altogether

[Gotejjeken.1267]

1 hour ago, Last Crab.6054 said:

it doesn't make bad matchups. 

unfortunately things like mesmer and ranger exist in the game, so there will always be bad matches.

but, all things set equal, the matchmaker does not make bad matchups, that is on the balance or lack there of.

patently true, and its made worse by swapping pre match

It doesn't make bad matchups despite specifically being proven that it makes bad matchups.  It's based on Glicko kitten.  

I don't know what to tell you, but 'it doesn't make bad matchups' is nowhere near true.  

[Last Crab.6054]

32 minutes ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

It doesn't make bad matchups despite specifically being proven that it makes bad matchups.  It's based on Glicko kitten.  

I don't know what to tell you, but 'it doesn't make bad matchups' is nowhere near true.  

"bad matchups"

if the devs told the game that ranger, mes, and thief were equal, and it places those against each other....

then it doesn't make bad matchups. 

if those classes are in fact, not equal, that is not the mm

that is the devs.

players know what is = and =/=

therefor, the mm does not make bad match ups.

players swapping during any time is making it worse.

so, swapping must be removed

then devs can make new matchups

[DivineDreaming.7206]

class swap nor duo q should be allowed in ranked, no game allows this type of crap in "competitive", pvp is dead cuz its the same 5 people duo qing on alts farming silver/gold league, there hardly is a high league in, they dont get qs so it matches with bronze thru gold, imagine.

 

pretty common sense crap, if your gamemode has less than 60 active players, well that's being nice, more like 20, prob should remove all the crap that keeps people from wasting their time doing it. There is no ladder in its current state, a meme.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

1 hour ago, Last Crab.6054 said:

"bad matchups"

if the devs told the game that ranger, mes, and thief were equal, and it places those against each other....

then it doesn't make bad matchups. 

if those classes are in fact, not equal, that is not the mm

that is the devs.

players know what is = and =/=

therefor, the mm does not make bad match ups.

players swapping during any time is making it worse.

so, swapping must be removed

then devs can make new matchups

This reads like a slam poem.

That's all I really have to add at this point

[Malus.2184]

12 hours ago, Saiyan.1704 said:

Is that not what's currently happening? 🤔

It is and it's the reason I stay away from PvP. There's no way I can improve on anything if I just die the moment I show my face.

The concept is described in the theory of the Zone of Proximal Development. People will endure if they feel challenged and people will stop if they just feel frustration and right now PvP is extremely frustrating.

[jdawgie.1835]

On 7/20/2024 at 12:35 AM, Frequency.6407 said:

Matchmaker tries to match classes on both teams. Even pitting, for example, a silver engi against a plat one.

But players have the choice to swap class.

Its an old system from when Spvp was very competitive. Every game your supposed evaluate who your "match up is." 

If you loose your match up while duoed qued it normally results in a loss. Due to population sometimes matchup disparity is enormous and makes things unfun. You can end up pushing your match up all the way to spawn and if their the enemy team doesn't rotate for them - they end up getting taken out of the fight and feeding kills or afk. Defacto loss. 

The PvP system in GW2 is a relic from a time when game design was something entirely different than it is today and they dont adjust for this. Mostly because the devs who created this beautiful game are no longer even working at Anet anymore. Which is why we overtime have progressed from slow, chess like engagements where "blundering" during an engagement enough times causes you too loose - to the snappy twitchy based pvp we have now. 

The best match ups in the game happen when everyone is the game has a matchup thats NEARLY in their skill cap zone. 

I cant describe the joy when I have had match ups that are equal to me or within a close enough range where either myself or my match up can go tit for tat.