diminishing returns on afk farmer on the same spot and killing the same mob. easy. sorted.

[quake.9023]

diminishing returns on afk farmer on the same spot and killing the same mob. this would make the drops literally nothing after more thn 10mins on same spot killing the same mob. thn this toxic circus will be gone overnight. its that easy to fix. either that or you dont want alt account purchase to be gone.

[Noidea Incognito.9607]

Don't really think they would pull resources for modifying only a few zones just to stop a dozen afk farmers. If they gonna make changes its gonna be over the whole board of the game; Full Game World anti-afk protocols. I am sure the players that don't farm like that, will (for example) not enjoy getting 5 min auto kick for going afk to the toilet. (collateral damage).

An inferior form of Multi-Box is allowed by the TOS. Makes perfect sense people would get alt.accounts. for their Multi Box setup.

A consumer is a consumer. An MMO is a live service; in other words; the rules of engagement are in Anet hands. If they consider the MB/alt account users and important demo graph... then there is not much we can do about it. they are also considered valuable customers; i guess?

Lets also not forget those Ytuber/streamers flaunting their Multibox/farming guides/I make 100g an hour brag videos. Obviously monkey see monkey do so they can finish their own legendaries/etc/etc faster.

I get it that people don't find it pleasant to see it in "their game", but not something new in an mmo. But this isn't an Single player game where you have full control over everything.

Ive seen them too.... it looks odd at best. But not toxic; that's a bit too much of negative stigma more worthy in pvp scenarios (I am more annoyed they never seem to make an effort to do fashion, that makes it look even worse XD)

But its not like I'm gonna be playing for 24H at that small patch of land their occupying while you don't see them in the other 99% of the total game.

I tend to not think about it too much in a video game. o7

 

 

 

Edited July 20 by Noidea Incognito.9607

[Danikat.8537]

This already exists, and has done since the game first came out. As far as I know the only map where it doesn't apply is Mad King's Labyrinth because they made a special decision to allow constant farming there.

Anet deliberately don't share all the details on how it works, but you can read what is known about it here: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Diminishing_returns  (Yes most of the page is about dungeon DR, but there's also sections on events and individual enemies.)

[Gop.8713]

Have we given up on the five minute timer already? Can we at least give it an honest chance to fail ; p

[quake.9023]

5 hours ago, Danikat.8537 said:

This already exists, and has done since the game first came out. As far as I know the only map where it doesn't apply is Mad King's Labyrinth because they made a special decision to allow constant farming there.

Anet deliberately don't share all the details on how it works, but you can read what is known about it here: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Diminishing_returns  (Yes most of the page is about dungeon DR, but there's also sections on events and individual enemies.)

obviously it doesnt work if ppl are doing it in big groups. if it eventually goes to 0 drops. they will be gone. its that simple.

[Solvar.7953]

It depends on how aggressive it is.  If it is to aggressive (diminishing returns kick in quickly), this will punish players who are 'honestly' playing the game.  It might not be uncommon to be in one area/map for quite a while.

So for those who are farming, it may just be the case that they farm on one character/account for a while, when DR kicks in, switch in to another, then switch back again.  While those farmers may appear to be AFK, it may very well be they are near the keyboard and can make these adjustments every 30 minutes or so, so it just adds a minor bother for them.

The counter is, if you are actually buying materials off the TP, these farmers are actually doing a service by keeping supply up and prices lower.

 

[Zebulous.2934]

When you say "same spot," do you mean that they can take a step every nine minutes and not experiance diminishing returns?

Do you mean a region of a map, like a renown heart event area.  So every nine minutes they have to travel an arbitrary distance? Say that the map were divided into nine regions. After ninty minutes that account would be unable to farm that map for the rest of the day.  

Do you mean that standing still for ten minutes just renders the whole map worthless for the rest of the day?

If OP would define "same spot" that would make discussion easier.

Also, could OP define "same mob" as well?

  Some groups of mobs spawn with a varient unit mixed in.  For example: mordrem groups of mobs sometimes have a healer or a support that spawns with the regular mobs.  If a farmer camps a spot that has mixed unit mobs like this are they immune to the diminishing returns?  

Or does "same mob" mean all of a species? So now the farmer has to find a spot close to a mordrem spawn and close to a jungle tendril spawn.

For many people, finding loopholes is a game all by itself.  I am sure some people find a loophole and keep it secret, but many tell other people and enjoy the praise and gratitude.

Edited July 20 by Zebulous.2934

[illuminati.8453]

Diminishing returns means nothing to someone who parks 24/7.

[kiroho.4738]

48 minutes ago, illuminati.8453 said:

Diminishing returns means nothing to someone who parks 24/7.

The way it is (or is supposed to be) executed in GW2, it indeed means a lot, because at some time you don't get any loot anymore at all.

[Danikat.8537]

12 hours ago, Zebulous.2934 said:

When you say "same spot," do you mean that they can take a step every nine minutes and not experiance diminishing returns?

Do you mean a region of a map, like a renown heart event area.  So every nine minutes they have to travel an arbitrary distance? Say that the map were divided into nine regions. After ninty minutes that account would be unable to farm that map for the rest of the day.  

Do you mean that standing still for ten minutes just renders the whole map worthless for the rest of the day?

If OP would define "same spot" that would make discussion easier.

Also, could OP define "same mob" as well?

  Some groups of mobs spawn with a varient unit mixed in.  For example: mordrem groups of mobs sometimes have a healer or a support that spawns with the regular mobs.  If a farmer camps a spot that has mixed unit mobs like this are they immune to the diminishing returns?  

Or does "same mob" mean all of a species? So now the farmer has to find a spot close to a mordrem spawn and close to a jungle tendril spawn.

For many people, finding loopholes is a game all by itself.  I am sure some people find a loophole and keep it secret, but many tell other people and enjoy the praise and gratitude.

It's map based. They'd have to change maps to stop it (and on the same character, playing a different character doesn't remove DR from the one that's affected).

I think what they could do is farm on one map until they get DR then go to a different one and farm there until they get DR, then swap back to the first one, and so on. But they either have to do that manually, which limits the time they can spend AFK, or they could try to set up a program to do it automatically after some amount of time and then they're botting and can be caught by the anti-botting software.

It won't completely stop players seeing other people standing still in one area with minions/turrets killing enemies over and over, but I think it's important to remember it's only players who don't like that. As far as Anet are concerned if they're not using botting programs to automate playing and they're doing something at least once every 5 minutes and present to respond when Anet check on them then they're allowed to keep farming, and if they keep doing it after Diminishing Returns drops the loot to nothing that's entirely their problem.

[Zebulous.2934]

@Danikat.8537
Oh I had a good idea about how the system currently works.  I wanted to know specifically what OP wanted and how that would be different from the new current Diminishing returns system. 
 I do not want to have a discussion where someone makes vague complaints and then changes their stance halfway through the discussion while insisting that I misinterpreted what they were asking for.

[Dean Calaway.9718]

On 7/20/2024 at 5:38 AM, quake.9023 said:

either that or you dont want alt account purchase to be gone.

Ding ding ding.

On 7/20/2024 at 9:26 AM, Noidea Incognito.9607 said:

Don't really think they would pull resources for modifying only a few zones just to stop a dozen afk farmers.

Citation needed on the "only a dozen" because I find more than that without looking.

You also don't modify the zones, you modify loot tables game wide, GW2 has a bonus exp timer for mobs that have been alive X minutes, so they already track that, all they need to do is have mobs that keep getting killed in seconds to stop dropping loot or have them only drop loot if they've been alive at least a few minutes.

[quake.9023]

11 hours ago, illuminati.8453 said:

Diminishing returns means nothing to someone who parks 24/7.

0 drops after 10mins of doing the same spot on the same mob. which part do you not understand. 

[quake.9023]

4 hours ago, Danikat.8537 said:

It's map based. They'd have to change maps to stop it (and on the same character, playing a different character doesn't remove DR from the one that's affected).

I think what they could do is farm on one map until they get DR then go to a different one and farm there until they get DR, then swap back to the first one, and so on. But they either have to do that manually, which limits the time they can spend AFK, or they could try to set up a program to do it automatically after some amount of time and then they're botting and can be caught by the anti-botting software.

It won't completely stop players seeing other people standing still in one area with minions/turrets killing enemies over and over, but I think it's important to remember it's only players who don't like that. As far as Anet are concerned if they're not using botting programs to automate playing and they're doing something at least once every 5 minutes and present to respond when Anet check on them then they're allowed to keep farming, and if they keep doing it after Diminishing Returns drops the loot to nothing that's entirely their problem.

its soo simple. if you have not moved your character and kill mob on the same spot regardless of map, the DR kicks in....by 10mins of continuing this pattern. the drops come to 0. you get nothing from there on. idk how more simple i can explain this 

[quake.9023]

19 hours ago, Solvar.7953 said:

It depends on how aggressive it is.  If it is to aggressive (diminishing returns kick in quickly), this will punish players who are 'honestly' playing the game.  It might not be uncommon to be in one area/map for quite a while.

So for those who are farming, it may just be the case that they farm on one character/account for a while, when DR kicks in, switch in to another, then switch back again.  While those farmers may appear to be AFK, it may very well be they are near the keyboard and can make these adjustments every 30 minutes or so, so it just adds a minor bother for them.

The counter is, if you are actually buying materials off the TP, these farmers are actually doing a service by keeping supply up and prices lower.

 

if you dont move your char (literally on the same spot. not area. foot not moved) , and kill same mob over a long period of time (10mins). lets be honest, you are afk farming. 

ohhh you support afk farming, hence your illogical points. prices lower is nonsense because they cause inflation with their excess gold to buy up all other stuff to monopolize the items and sell it back to you at a price they set. 

[Luthan.5236]

With the recent patch and the in-combat timeout ... this should be prevented a bit. (Though the patch probably was mainly aimed at people leeching in convergences I guess lol. You now need to find a safe spot to not get in combat until the last boss spawns.)

Semi-afk afaik is allowed. When you are at the computer to answer whispers from a game master. But automated combat ... afaik not. (Just staying somewhere letting the pets/minions do stuff is not automating anything if no key is pressed.)

People would need to be at the computer more often (paying more attention) or automate more stuff which might then be against the rules. (Or they will be sent to the char selection within 5 minutes.)

[kharmin.7683]

1 hour ago, quake.9023 said:

its soo simple. if you have not moved your character and kill mob on the same spot regardless of map, the DR kicks in....by 10mins of continuing this pattern. the drops come to 0. you get nothing from there on. idk how more simple i can explain this 

It may be easy to say, but not so simple to code/program/implement especially in light of the spaghetti code that is GW2.  We don't know how this drop to zero might affect legitimate players on the map.  The concept makes sense, but no one here has any knowledge of whether it is something that can be put into practice.  Which might well be why it hasn't been done.

[Zebulous.2934]

6 hours ago, Dean Calaway.9718 said:

You also don't modify the zones, you modify loot tables game wide, GW2 has a bonus exp timer for mobs that have been alive X minutes, so they already track that, all they need to do is have mobs that keep getting killed in seconds to stop dropping loot or have them only drop loot if they've been alive at least a few minutes.

But legitimate high traffic areas exist.  There are so many times when I reach a veteran or a champion that was killed seconds before I got there.  Obviously I am going to wait for it to spawn and then kill it so that I can progress to my next goal. After I kill it there will be another player arriving as I leave.

I don't like the idea of trying to chase away players new to the zone or regular players who just want to kill a vet as they pass through the area.  

"Wait don't kill it! The champion isn't ripe yet."

There will always be a troll or someone who just doesn't read chat who would kill the thing too early. 

This waiting for monsters to age idea will create bottlenecks of players waiting to try and tag the thing as it dies from twenty simultaneous attacks every five minutes.  Oh didn't get credit? Wait five more minutes. Still didn't get credit? Wait again.

You want us to babysit mobs just so we can get drops?  That would just cause even more players to stand around maps as they wait for mobs to become eligible to drop loot.

Edited July 21 by Zebulous.2934

[Dean Calaway.9718]

2 hours ago, Zebulous.2934 said:

There are so many times when I reach a veteran or a champion that was killed seconds before I got there.  Obviously I am going to wait for it to spawn and then kill it so that I can progress to my next goal.

Read this again...

9 hours ago, Dean Calaway.9718 said:

all they need to do is have mobs that keep getting killed in seconds to stop dropping loot

Clearly states a pattern of behavior, i.e. farming a mob ad nauseam.

Loot is already a chance, it's not like as is you're guaranteed anything on kill.

If you're talking about "kill 100 so and so enemies" for the weekly you can still get credit for those without loot.

If you're talking about special items like meats for the Skyscale collection those could easily be independent.

There's no legitimate reason to stand around one place killing the same trash mob for hours on end besides AFK farming.

[illuminati.8453]

22 hours ago, kiroho.4738 said:

The way it is (or is supposed to be) executed in GW2, it indeed means a lot, because at some time you don't get any loot anymore at all.

It is never zero, so even if every 1 of 5 drops loot it still adds up.  There are too many variables for them to have diminishing returns reach zero so AFK farming will always win.

[ShogenEight.5087]

the easy fix is Necro, Ranger and Engineers get the upkeep mechanic that Rev has and their pets , minions and turrets cost considerable upkeep, once they reach zero they enter an energy tapped state where their power and condi takes a heavy hit, you could even make it so the upkeep only restores if your actively moving around

there already is a fair bit of diminishing returns

also I think with necromancers their lifeforce should be something drained my their skills it will also help with pve (more a pvp thing but there is nothing more scummy than having two health bars)

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

12 minutes ago, illuminati.8453 said:

It is never zero, so even if every 1 of 5 drops loot it still adds up.  There are too many variables for them to have diminishing returns reach zero so AFK farming will always win.

Then, I suppose someone should edit the Wiki.

[Zebulous.2934]

3 hours ago, Dean Calaway.9718 said:

Read this again...

"all they need to do is have mobs that keep getting killed in seconds to stop dropping loot or have them only drop loot if they've been alive at least a few minutes"
The way that post is written, mobs that die within seconds of spawning stop dropping loot for anyone.  Not just stationary afk farmers.  The post is talking about the lifespan of a mob dictating what loot it is allowed to drop.  The system that you proposed is only tracking how long a mob is on the map after it spawns, it is not tracking the kill rate or movement of individual players in relation to mobs on that map.  That is the way it reads to me.

I pointed out that high player traffic in an area would result in one group of mobs dying repeatedly just a quickly as if the mob were being killed repeatedly by afk farmers. 
Veteran mobs do not take five minutes to kill.   Some champion mobs don't last five minutes against a group of players.  
Say that two players aren't afk farming, they just arrived at the spawn location early, or late, and so they had to wait for the next spawn.  As the champ spawns three more players arrive and the champ melts in seconds.  The proposed system in that post would have none of those players get any loot because the champ died too fast after it spawned.  Punishment for maximizing PvE builds and punishment for player cooperation.

[kiroho.4738]

2 hours ago, illuminati.8453 said:

It is never zero, so even if every 1 of 5 drops loot it still adds up. There are too many variables for them to have diminishing returns reach zero so AFK farming will always win.

What's your source?

Wiki clearly says it DR indeed increases to a point there are zero drops.

"Once triggered, the impact of DR will increase until you won't get any loot at all anymore."

Also there are not many variables for afk farming at all:
"The more often a character loots from similar foes within an area, the more quickly DR triggers." - Similar foes, within an area, that's it.

[Dean Calaway.9718]

9 hours ago, Zebulous.2934 said:

The way that post is written, mobs that die within seconds of spawning stop dropping loot for anyone.

And? That's exactly the point.

9 hours ago, Zebulous.2934 said:

I pointed out that high player traffic in an area would result in one group of mobs dying repeatedly just a quickly as if the mob were being killed repeatedly by afk farmers. 

Name some places this happens where it would be a problem. The only places players camp farm are AFK farming spots, it would ruin that, which is the idea.

10 hours ago, Zebulous.2934 said:

so they had to wait for the next spawn

Why would you wait for a spawn on a random enemy? Only AFK farmers do that.

10 hours ago, Zebulous.2934 said:

The proposed system in that post would have none of those players get any loot because the champ died too fast after it spawned.

Insentivising exploration over camping, no one that comes to a champ and just misses it sticks around waiting for the next spawn, ever, if you're talking about special quest items these are mostly already RNG and would be in a different loot table, no issue there.

10 hours ago, Zebulous.2934 said:

Punishment for maximizing PvE builds and punishment for player cooperation.

Only punishes camping, which is the whole point of the idea.