Engineer Compared With Other Classes In PVE

[Obfuscate.6430]

I am not a bench mark tester at all, but recently I decided to see what my numbers were in the Special Forces Training area.  
You have to work twice as hard on an Engineer to achieve base line numbers other classes achieve with seemingly no special rotation. 

I'm kind of new to looking at the numbers but I saw noticeable damage differences.
Engineer doesn't seem to have easy access to quickness, and some of their traitlines are utterly ignorable. 

Am I having difficulty because of the more involved rotations required to reach the higher numbers, or is there noticeable disparity with the Engineer compared to other classes? 
Do people actively use them over other classes for harder content? 
What kind of things would you change? 

Off the top of my head, I would add more Quickness options.

[Alcatraznc.3869]

Historically, Engineer has always been a class that requires a lot of keys to be able to reach high numbers. I mean core Engineer back in the days before all the specs was only really played in group content by people who could juggle between 3-4 kits all the time while warrior for instance was pretty much the default pick since it had both number and chill rotation. Same thing for Elementalist although they were more common because they could easily pre stack might and fury.

 

That being said, I think Engineer is for the most part fine number wise. As far as Quickness goes, I think Engineer has plenty already. Being able to get quickness by blasting or leaping in a field made by anyone is actually pretty strong. But I can understand why people dont like it when other class only have to press one button and gets the same effect.

 

I dont have anything to ask Anet for Engineer . I just dont trust Anet on any Engineer balance decision ever since they tried to make gyro act like your basic put and forget well. The less they touch Engineer the better. Sure that means some skill like turret might never gets a rework but after witnessing the rifle rework, I think I want to keep the remaining useful turret worth using. Now, I just hope Anet doesnt fk up with Engineer spear. I've read the feedback and I've also read their upcoming spear changes. I will wait for the release day to try them out but I just hope the spear will be good.

[Shaogin.2679]

If you are building for group content as a DPS, quickness should be provided by your boon provider specs. If in open world, all three elite specs already have plenty of access to quickness, especially Scrapper. What kind of content are you trying to build for and what builds are you currently trying to use?

[draxynnic.3719]

I'm a bit out of the loop due to taking a break from endgame instanced content for a while, but the impression I get is that engineer isn't the strongest at any of the roles at the moment, but it's still a pretty solid option for any role. Scrapper needing finishers to grant quickness is a bit awkward, but it works as long as you can avoid yeeting yourself somewhere you don't want to be. Mechanist is still a decent alacrity option. Both have solid healdps and boondps versions. Pure DPS engineer builds aren't regarded as the best possible available but if you're not doing HTCM or hardmode Cerus, they'll probably do the job.

And in open world, engineer is arguably one of the best professions for self-quickness, having several options for each elite specialisation. Holosmith arguably has it the hardest in that respect, though.

[Obfuscate.6430]

I am just disappointed by where Holosmith is right now. idk. It's my main, but I haven't reached for it since trying other specializations. (reaper, virtuoso...etc) 

[DaZeeHero.5210]

Core Engineer and Scrapper I know are very good at being support, while still doing respectable dps.

[HnRkLnXqZ.1870]

You will never get everyone happy. I remember the days we were considered mostly deadweight, as well as the ones we were considered the best pick for a certain role. I lost count how many times the balance-team kicked us face-first into a mud-puddle, just because they decided they had to change something that worked good so far. At the moment, I am fine with the state of Engineer. Core is strong, Mechanist is balanced and Scrapper is stronger than ever. Holosmith is a bit lackluster, but I guess that will change with the spear.

The quickness-access is imo acceptable. It is not too tricky to pull off. When you play hammer or mace+shield, you can easily maintain it permanently. There are some adjustments with boon-duration that allow more mistakes, but it isn't too difficult if you go without that.

I run a few builds that do not require any strict rotation, but offer 12-16k DPS, which is sufficient for my gameplay. I do some strike-missions once in a while and fractals. I can play WvW and open world. All without changing a character or focusing on a real rotation - intuitive gameplay only.

What would I like to change?
- 1/3 of the holosmith traits working outside of photon-forge
- pistol auto explosion = explosion-skill
- changing bomb-kit drop animation, so it does not look like taking a dump
- WvW version of sneak gyro turned into something that can be considered an elite-skill of an elite-specialization
- the placeholder mortar-kit skin, that will probably outlast the game's lifespan

What I do not want (again)?
- a super-powerful engineer spec, that is top-tier for 4 months and then gets nerfed into oblivion
- another utility-goggles patch, with a several month long bug-fix-marathon
- yet another condi-weapon, because youknowho claims that pistol/pistol, mace and spear cannot be considered real condition-weapons
- a single utility-skill that can do: boon-share, shadowstep 1,200 units, condi-cleanse & stun-break - with a 20 second cooldown

[pochocu.2831]

In my experience, engeneer was a very dificult and complexe class to play, only mechanist change it, it is very good to suport, especially in wvw with scrapper and elixir build, while in group content like raids , you have decent options for both healing and buffing, nothing super easy and requires positioning etc, just like elementalist, engineer requires a little more experience with the class, it's not just about picking it up and using it, but I think it's one of the best and most fun classes

[Tofu.1865]

Are you aware that everytime an Elementalist and Engineer complain they buff Guardian, Ranger and Necros??
Nothing new to what you said just accept that Engis and Eles are the middle child but sigmas of GW2

[Mic.1897]

On 8/10/2024 at 3:31 AM, Obfuscate.6430 said:

I 
What kind of things would you change? 

Off the top of my head, I would add more Quickness options.

You should be benchmarking with 100% quickness and alacrity uptime

[Obfuscate.6430]

I should post an update, after playing some of the new expansion with my beloved Holosmith.
He's doing fine.
I think the lesson is that before one studies DPS, mountains are mountains and waters are waters; after a first glimpse in to the truth of DPS, mountains are no longer mountains and waters are no longer waters; after going back to playing the content that is always played, mountains are once again mountains and waters once again waters.
😅

[AlPower.2476]

Between cores: Core Condi: Lots of key (probly the most piano rotation) and absolutely not worthly

Scrapper Quickness. Lots of field combos; there are much higher dps options that keeps quickness at the same level. And as for Healing. It's decent. But HB is a better option since it can spam stab and aegis; and it's quickness only requires to press mantras and elite skill.

Holosmith: Lot of risk (if you overheat, you're 💀 as dps) a bettetr choice is Reaper. Similar playstyle like a transformation, but with less buttons to press, no risk, auto-stab and lots of auto-quickness, Higher AoE distance, etc. Condi one I think is the best PvE option (or well I haven't tried spear mech). Yeah it requires effort but his dps is high. The problem is, there are higher dmg options and easier. 

Mech: A good option for new players. But probly the most boring spec to play in the game. Also, the only spec that has punishements for its poorly designed pet AI.

So, engi is good if you enjoy it. But if I were new, and I already knew what it would be like throgut the years.. I def. had chosen another class.

Edited August 31 by AlPower.2476

[Triptaminas.4789]

Open world is fun with scrapper, deadeye and scrapper probably most fun classes for it. 

Zoom zoooooooom, gotta go fast.

[ToukaGontier.2198]

I can only really speak for Scrapper as I only played Mech during EOD when it was the new shiny thing, and holo i struggle with due to ping.

Healing wise, For me I am able to tank the current raids on it and keep others alive through the content, so while scrapper isn't considered to be at the top of healing, it does more than enough in that role. Only thing I actually struggle with on it is self healing, because outside of the F1 and some fields I can barely heal myself, so I have had a few instances where everyone around me is full health and im almost dead because I can't heal myself. 

Only negative thing to say on it is the boon application, ill go into quickness later but the protection boon is on your self heal and your function gyro (revive) so youre burning your biggest survivability skill and a revive for protection, and then youre burning 3 and 5 in medkit (a burst heal) just for quickness and other boons. If youre running shields youre burning a block and reflect for protection. You don't have things when you need them :v

DPS wise I think it sits pretty average, which is enough for most content. I personally enjoy power DPS because of its survivability, I can be the last person alive in bad PUG's purely because of the barrier and self healing it puts out. Condi Scrapper as far as I'm aware doesn't exist though (and wouldnt have that survivability anyway)

BoonDPS wise I really really struggle and I think this is where scrapper has been neglected. The DPS part is okay, though it is one of the lowest benching boon dps, I believe at one point it was the lowest benching. However the quickness is horrible.

I understand it can't be on the gyro's due to it locking you into using gyro's.. but right now we are locked into fields and finishers, which is just as bad... I consider myself good at scrapper but I suck at boondps with it. I have only just enough fields on my bar, and only just enough blasts/leaps, if i accidentally use a blast/leap outside of a field, the quickness just full on falls off before that finisher is available again. If the boss is constantly moving out of my fields, and others aren't dropping any, I cant even give the boon. I'm forced into using hammer 3, forced into burning the function gyro revive, forced into throw mine. Grenade kit youre basically forced into due to it having alot of your DPS tied to it. So that only leaves 1 utility semi-free which even then is one of your fields nad bigger dps skills. 

And then condi quick scrapper is even worse. The spear 2 is your main finisher but its broken, you have to run 4 kits for just enough fields and finishers, so you dont even have other options. Youre just forced into stuff the same as the gyro's but alot harder to play. 

Would love to see the quickness be re-worked again to an easier application. Whether it's back to superspeed but make something else give superspeed (like the function keys), or have it on wells and turn all the function keys into wells. Or simply just add another finisher (like the whirl finisher) to give some quickness. 

It really sucks being forced into bringing specific weapons, utilities, etc purely because only a couple skills actually have finishers and fields. And it feels saddening when another boondps or healer just presses 1 button to pulse out a boon. Makes me wonder why I decide to play my favourite class when it is such a let down with its quickness application.