Unfair Dead Spying

[Anov.4237]

Just used it myself and Its not fair. When u die the screen should turn "black". Had 5 foes trying to take a keep. Was such a ahole that i let em kill me. When dead I counted foes and gate %. Called the Tag and they where wiped. Just turn screen black when dead and if u get revieved u can "see" again.

[One more for the road.8950]

Yeah, really unfair, they got a loot bag.

And you gave info you could have given being alive.

[Anov.4237]

One loot bag was worth it. We got 10 and they knew what was going on, before they came. Something like numbers. It is easy to count if u right next to them and dont have to think about dying. Ending up dying a place where u cant see anything.

[urd.8306]

👯‍♀️
In Germany they call this Sommerloch or "silly season".

 

[Luthan.5236]

Afaik this is why a timer exists? Not really tried to let it time out - is only rez unavailable then or doesn't it port you out to your default spawn in that map so you can't "spy" anymore?

[Anov.4237]

is it 3 or 4 min when u die. Its alot of time in WvW. Surprised people dont think its a problem.

Edited August 13 by Anov.4237

[urd.8306]

Because it isn't a problem. And never was.

[Anov.4237]

Ok sorry king of WvW.  Play the gamemode and dont only play ur press 1 raids. Fellow Vabbian. ANd come with an argument why not change it.  Well...have never been a problem...LOL

Edited August 13 by Anov.4237

[One more for the road.8950]

You're literally laying dead on the floor doing absolutely squat. You could have counted them or checked whatever percentage on wall or gate while being alive. You know, click your mouse on it, stay at a distance. Or perhaps sniff to see how many attackers behind a wall. Now you're going to be dead on the floor instead of helping whoever defending when they arrive.

They got a loot bag, you're no use defending, it's not unfair to who you think it is.

Edited August 13 by One more for the road.8950

[InappropriateInnuendo.1395]

I can stay mounted on my warclaw from a safe distance and do everything you described, but better.

[Dean Calaway.9718]

It's only unfair if it was one sided, which it isn't, so it's not.

[bq pd.2148]

2 hours ago, Anov.4237 said:

One loot bag was worth it. We got 10 and they knew what was going on, before they came. Something like numbers. It is easy to count if u right next to them and dont have to think about dying. Ending up dying a place where u cant see anything.

people want 'exact' numbers as they dont want you to call 50 when there are only 15, but whether that is 14 or 16 doesn't really matter. 

if you do have difficulty estimating enemy groups you could run know thy enemy arc extension, after a fight it will show you how many people you or your group/squad were in combat with.

for an estimate group size, siege count, wall/gate status you don't need to get into a position where you would risk dying.
being alive then allows you to use (pre build) siege, guild arrow carts can now also be build by a single load of supplies. trebs being so cheap now also might be build on attack, depending on how much you time you have, a single cow on the stack could drastically reduce their options for inner.

[Codename T.2847]

I've never heard of anyone complaining about your dead character having an unfair advantage.. xD

[CafPow.1542]

3 hours ago, Anov.4237 said:

is it 3 or 4 min when u die. Its alot of time in WvW. Surprised people dont think its a problem.

I don’t know i never die.

(kidding: i think it’s 4-5 something)

[Tovera.4039]

4 hours ago, Anov.4237 said:

Ok sorry, I’m a complete noob. I’ve only been in wvw for five minutes, but listen to my hot take! It’s ok, you can trust me, I’m a professional .

Welcome to guild wars. Hope you enjoy your stay.  

[Heibi.4251]

4 hours ago, Anov.4237 said:

Just used it myself and Its not fair. When u die the screen should turn "black". Had 5 foes trying to take a keep. Was such a ahole that i let em kill me. When dead I counted foes and gate %. Called the Tag and they where wiped. Just turn screen black when dead and if u get revieved u can "see" again.

I've always proposed the "Dead Men Tell No Tales" rule. It goes to the map screen once you are killed. You either port or get rezzed after the battle. But all the while you don't get to see what's going on.

[CafPow.1542]

53 minutes ago, Heibi.4251 said:

I've always proposed the "Dead Men Tell No Tales" rule. It goes to the map screen once you are killed. You either port or get rezzed after the battle. But all the while you don't get to see what's going on.

So if i die unfortunately but my zerg is winning i have to watch a black screen?

this „dead spy“ situation is soooo niche and a non-issue, i just wholeheartedly disagree with OP. He could have tried to survive and help the other defenders when they came in, which is totally possible.

the OP‘s szenario is just not an issue, anet needs to adress.

Edited August 13 by CafPow.1542

[TheGrimm.5624]

This is actually an ongoing discussion over the years and its complicated. The topic pops in an out of various threads on itself and attached to others like no downstate. 

Personally have supported both sides over time. It's like an onion, there are many layers to it. Let's break down just a few.

Is there a need to kill scouts? Well no if they can just report on what they see as they are dead. So a scout that dives in deep and dies has probably more value then a live one if they can provide more info while dead from a better vantage point. 

Throwing siege on dead players is both a taunt and a tactic to try and block visibility options. 

Not releasing is a good tactic to use as bait since people may think that you are waiting for a rez and there are hidden allies around. Good way to keep the other side distracted and wasting time watching your body.

Drivers can still lead while dead calling shots and directing.

Dead players can watch a fight, which can be fun, but they also get to gauge whether they should release or wait.

And that's a 60 second thought on it let alone other points that have been discussed over time. 

So should being dead have more impact? That is a question. Right now on a fence, but I wouldn't say it's not a non issue. +1 to the OP for the topic.

[CafPow.1542]

6 minutes ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

This is actually an ongoing discussion over the years and its complicated. The topic pops in an out of various threads on itself and attached to others like no downstate. 

Personally have supported both sides over time. It's like an onion, there are many layers to it. Let's break down just a few.

Is there a need to kill scouts? Well no if they can just report on what they see as they are dead. So a scout that dives in deep and dies has probably more value then a live one if they can provide more info while dead from a better vantage point. 

Throwing siege on dead players is both a taunt and a tactic to try and block visibility options. 

Not releasing is a good tactic to use as bait since people may think that you are waiting for a rez and there are hidden allies around. Good way to keep the other side distracted and wasting time watching your body.

Drivers can still lead while dead calling shots and directing.

Dead players can watch a fight, which can be fun, but they also get to gauge whether they should release or wait.

And that's a 60 second thought on it let alone other points that have been discussed over time. 

So should being dead have more impact? That is a question. Right now on a fence, but I wouldn't say it's not a non issue. +1 to the OP for the topic.

I‘d argue that you read way to much into it my friend.

All the things you mention are always also do-able when alive, but when alive, you can fight.

being alive is always more valuable than being dead. You might aswell be an afk wallrunner then.

Edited August 13 by CafPow.1542

[TheGrimm.5624]

6 minutes ago, CafPow.1542 said:

I‘d argue that you read way to much into it my friend.

All the things you mention are always also do-able when alive, but when alive, you can fight.

being alive is always more valuable than being dead. You might aswell be an afk wallrunner then.

As I said I have been on both sides of these posts. When I scout, should I be able to keep scouting when dead? When I run a havoc, should I be able to bait a zerg when dead? When I pugmand and am dropped as a tag, should I be able to call shots and direct my group to a win by IDing key targets and getting them to focus fire? In the downstate versus non downstate discussions is part of the back and forth that there is little impact in being dead? Again, on a fence I can see aspects to both sides. I do agree it is fair to keep being useful while dead under our current mechanics. To me it makes it an interesting topic and as I said this has come up over the decade a number of times and in various forms. Now would it make an interesting test week like no downstate? There are also other interesting test weeks as well that could be a thing. Spiking versus cleaving is another.

🙂 Good hunting!

[CafPow.1542]

35 minutes ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

As I said I have been on both sides of these posts. When I scout, should I be able to keep scouting when dead? When I run a havoc, should I be able to bait a zerg when dead? When I pugmand and am dropped as a tag, should I be able to call shots and direct my group to a win by IDing key targets and getting them to focus fire? In the downstate versus non downstate discussions is part of the back and forth that there is little impact in being dead? Again, on a fence I can see aspects to both sides. I do agree it is fair to keep being useful while dead under our current mechanics. To me it makes it an interesting topic and as I said this has come up over the decade a number of times and in various forms. Now would it make an interesting test week like no downstate? There are also other interesting test weeks as well that could be a thing. Spiking versus cleaving is another.

🙂 Good hunting!

Sure but also consider on the other hand that an enemy is not a bot. He can draw back around a corner, block your view (like you mentioned) etc.

it‘s part of the game. Sure it is more useful to see something when dead than seeing nothing. But even more useful it is to be alive, even release and rush back to help.

Besides that, all in all, the game provides a certain amount of mechanics. Mechanics, that are ingame since release (like downstate) and i am baffled (and amused) when i read that people still seem to fail to adapt to those mechanics. Now they come here and criticize them, instead of thinking about how to improve.

[Heibi.4251]

4 hours ago, CafPow.1542 said:

So if i die unfortunately but my zerg is winning i have to watch a black screen?

this „dead spy“ situation is soooo niche and a non-issue, i just wholeheartedly disagree with OP. He could have tried to survive and help the other defenders when they came in, which is totally possible.

the OP‘s szenario is just not an issue, anet needs to adress.

From all the responding you're doing you seem to like the dead spy on the ground stuff. And my suggestion doesn't put you in "black screen". It puts you in MAP Screen. There was a time when players who got into places like bay and were being chased would try to die really close to a gate or the water gate area so they could be rezzed. Usually a mesmer. My solution is to make it so dead players can't give intel on numbers, repairs or siege. you're dead, why can you see anything? Sounds logical to deny intel from dead players. Would add even more fairness. 

[Anov.4237]

Im not a noob. Just try to come with some input. Not malding. And it wasnt being used against me. Just a bit strange you can see what is happening when ur ded. Dont make any sense.

[CafPow.1542]

27 minutes ago, Heibi.4251 said:

From all the responding you're doing you seem to like the dead spy on the ground stuff. And my suggestion doesn't put you in "black screen". It puts you in MAP Screen. There was a time when players who got into places like bay and were being chased would try to die really close to a gate or the water gate area so they could be rezzed. Usually a mesmer. My solution is to make it so dead players can't give intel on numbers, repairs or siege. you're dead, why can you see anything? Sounds logical to deny intel from dead players. Would add even more fairness. 

I don’t know i never die on purpose.

if i die they did catch me. Since i am not blind nor completely braindead i more or less still know what killed me and give it out like „about 15 blues at bay, outer down“ or whatever. Pressing the releasebutton before that would only cost me 1 second of loading screen.

then i would release and get my a** back at bay as fast as my sober warclaw can get me to be useful and help others to throw the enemies out if possible.

the only reason i stay dead would be if a bigger number of my team is already there and fight them and there should be no chance of losing for them. In this case, i don’t release cause i don’t need to run back they can also rezz me and then i can help fix walls. But in that case, my scouting ability is not needed anymore cause my friends are already there and i assume they have eyes right? 
 

in my head there is no scenario where i wouldn’t be more useful alive and fighting. Clearly we can all assume the enemy will go towards lord.

the amount of posts i give in this thread has no impact of me being right or wrong as far as i can tell.

Edited August 13 by CafPow.1542

[CafPow.1542]

19 minutes ago, Anov.4237 said:

Im not a noob. Just try to come with some input. Not malding. And it wasnt being used against me. Just a bit strange you can see what is happening when ur ded. Dont make any sense.

I’m not trying to be a bad guy here, i just disagree and i hope i am not hostile doing that, wouldn’t be my intention. If so, sorry.

i do kinda understand your point but my point is, that it is so niche, that it isn’t really a thing that needs fixing.