Homesteading isn't as easy & player friendly as they've claimed and has some flaws that should be fixed.

[Triptaminas.4789]

3 hours ago, Logos.5603 said:

Wait, so playing the game is gathering nodes? I mean, the fact that games such as this have made this "playing the game" is insane. The video game industry has bamboozled consumers into thinking that busy work like gathering nodes and setting crafting goals is "playing," "fun," or "creative." That's NOT fun. You only do it because the reward is the fun (however provisional that is). You do some crazy amount of mindless grinding for weeks, to be able to make 10 chairs, and y'all like yup that peak gaming!

Minecraft... any survival game... any rpg game...

It's about gratification of creation and accomplished and so on and so on. Like seriously, every mmorpg and rpg is like that, i would dare to say majority of games is like that even city management sim's, every single aspect from grind/farm/mob killing/resource collecting/leveling u name it, it's all virtually the same, end of day the reward is gratification, there is rarely any joy at the end of grind as gamers like to chase carrot, it's all about the journey, after u finish it u go for next grind/journey as finish line is not what u actually seek. 

 

14 minutes ago, Logos.5603 said:

" If those players are ok with playing the game, getting materials, interacting with tp/community and, finally, maybe even spending/investing then I don't see why they would not be ok with this housing system and doing exactly that right now. All it takes is gameplay."

The assumption here is that gameplay=getting materials, interacting with TP (trading). Yup! This. THIS! Is peak gameplay. This is what I'm here for!

Just play the game...then stop for a bit and gather some materials like a mindless little bot for 20-30mins...then continue playing (you know immersing yourself in an RPG game)...but STOP "see that flower patch, make sure you harvest 200 of those for a few hours before you continue having fun. Why? Well, you see, that's the play tax. That's how we show our investors that gamers are "gaming"...that's how we pad the runtime. Peak, I say PEAK gameplay. Will they notice? Hell, no. They'll eat it right up and eventually call it gameplay! Bwahahaha! Once we convince them that this is "gaming," we won't need "content" all we need is a thin story, and lots, and lots of fetch quests."

Why, why you play mmorpg if u despise stupid fetch quests and basic mat gathering? Gw2 isn't even that heavy on mat farm, u can get basically everything with no efforts at all in comparison to other games, u get rewarded here for breathing even more so with wizard bucks now. 

Even stuff like leggies got devalued so much u can now craft one in a month playing 2h a week or something with box from astral vault.

U confuse me dude, what do you want from this game? What changes would make you happy?

Edited August 26 by Triptaminas.4789

[Triptaminas.4789]

2 minutes ago, Logos.5603 said:

Yea, if you stop pretending this is an MMORPG video game and instead treat it as a business you will see, you TP illiterate noob, that you aren't being efficient! Stop wasting time having fun with the game (that's not what video games are about).

"Working is playing!" (message sponsored by the Ministry of Truth).

Are you on drugs by any chance?

As you keep derailing and straight up shitposting. Not even in cleaver way. Yet I want to give you benefit of a doubt. 

Are you high my dude?

Edited August 26 by Triptaminas.4789

[Logos.5603]

Just now, Triptaminas.4789 said:

Minecraft... any survival game... any rpg game...

It's about gratification of creation and accomplished and so on and so on. Like seriously, every mmorpg and rpg is like that, i would dare to say majority of games is like that even city management sim's, every single aspect from grind/farm/mob killing/resource collecting/leveling u name it, it's all virtually the same, end of day the reward is gratification, there is rarely any joy at the end of grind as gamers like to chase carrot, it's all about the journey, after u finish it u go for next grind/journey as finish line is not what u actually seek. 

 

Why, why you play mmorpg if u despise stupid fetch quests and basic mat gathering? Gw2 isn't even that heavy on mat farm, u can get basically everything with no efforts at all in comparison to other games, u get rewarded here for breathing even more so with wizard bucks now. 

U confuse me dude, what do you want from this game? What changes would make you happy?

"See I told you. They won't even notice the irony! They will say that video games are like this naturally. That developers have no choice but to make games like this. That is just because of our fundamental human nature! And once they are here, we got them!"

Darn it. You are right. I've been focusing on the wrong thing! It's not the chair and the decorating that matters, it is the flowers you've gathered along the way! That's what meaningful. It's not the seeing the story come together, the climax, beating the big bad...it's the 100th mob I've plowed through while watching Youtube.

 

[Logos.5603]

6 minutes ago, Triptaminas.4789 said:

Are you on drugs by any chance?

As you keep derailing and straight up shitposting. Not even in cleaver way. Yet I want to give you benefit of a doubt. 

Are you high my dude?

Mmm...lisinopril and something for gout.

Not shitposting. You are just defending a terrible practice by most game developers that they have been doing for years, and years. The reason it works is in part because people go out of their way to rationalize it. Just pointing that out.

[Triptaminas.4789]

Just now, Logos.5603 said:

"See I told you. They won't even notice the irony! They will say that video games are like this naturally. That developers have no choice but to make games like this. That is just because of our fundamental human nature! And once they are here, we got them!"

Darn it. You are right. I've been focusing on the wrong thing! It's not the chair and the decorating that matters, it is the flowers you've gathered along the way! That's what meaningful. It's not the seeing the story come together, the climax, beating the big bad...it's the 100th mob I've plowed through while watching Youtube.

 

Stop with fallacies because it is really pathetic, if I would like to read low effort baits I would go surf /pol/.

There is no story outside of og cope's in mmos, I advice single player story/narrative driven game branch, also use cheatengine in case there is some progression system.

 

[Logos.5603]

Just now, Triptaminas.4789 said:

Stop with fallacies because it is really pathetic, if I would like to read low effort baits I would go surf /pol/.

There is no story outside of og cope's in mmos, I advice single player story/narrative driven game branch, also use cheatengine in case there is some progression system.

 

Oh, what's the fallacy?

Again, just pointing out the ridiculous aspect of your answer.

Just because many people do X (or many videogames do X), doesn't mean that X is the only or best way to do X. That's effectively what you are arguing here. That's a naturalistic fallacy btw (and some other sort of inference fallacy).

[Triptaminas.4789]

1 minute ago, Logos.5603 said:

Mmm...lisinopril and something for gout.

Not shitposting. You are just defending a terrible practice by most game developers that they have been doing for years, and years. The reason it works is in part because people go out of their way to rationalize it. Just pointing that out.

It's you derailing by ridiculing the mmo's design and player interest/engagement drivers, I'm not defending anything. 

U want to engage in philosophy and point out the stupidity on "why are we even doing this" "why I'm killing these mobs" "muh existentialism" can approach any activity from same angle. This topic ain't about it, it's about mat costs in mmorpg game. 

Go create thread about eradication of mat costs in mmo games if u want but this thread ain't about that.

[Triptaminas.4789]

6 minutes ago, Logos.5603 said:

Oh, what's the fallacy?

Again, just pointing out the ridiculous aspect of your answer.

Just because many people do X (or many videogames do X), doesn't mean that X is the only or best way to do X. That's effectively what you are arguing here. That's a naturalistic fallacy btw (and some other sort of inference fallacy).

U misconstructed my post altogether, creating talking points out of thin air, like this whole page now is nothing but your nonsenses where u keep attempting to drag convo into game design philosophy without providing any points or arguments altogether, this is so stupid it's actually confusing.

Begone with your lowkey gish gallop spam. I don't have time for this low effort low iq banter, it's 5am and this convo clearly wont lead anywhere, as either u are a chatbot or high.

Edited August 26 by Triptaminas.4789

[Logos.5603]

Just now, Triptaminas.4789 said:

It's you derailing by ridiculing the mmo's design and player interest/engagement drivers, I'm not defending anything. 

U want to engage in philosophy and point out the stupidity on "why are we even doing this" "why I'm killing these mobs" "muh existentialism" can approach any activity from same angle. This topic ain't about it, it's about mat costs in mmorpg game. 

Go create thread about eradication of mat costs in mmo games if u want but this thread ain't about that.

Indeed, we can and should approach every activity from the same angle. If we don't want to beg the question, these philosophical questions (since you raised more than one) are precisely the kind of questions that need to be asked. Current MMO design is lazy. It has and is training us to be good little mindless bots. To bring it back to the topic (as if we ever left), that's the problem with the homestead. There is a fundamental confusion (in many gamers) between doing mindless monotonous tasks = gameplay, and decoration being merely the reward you get. Current gaming thrives on this confusion, which is really a symptom of a much larger problem in videogames. As a consumer you should be, at the very least, annoyed. 

[Roda.7468]

12 minutes ago, Triptaminas.4789 said:

Sturdy chair? 

Some of issues people rise is just silly.

Buy efficiency upgrades for 8g + some bear pokerchips, cut the mat req for single refined wood by 4. One ref wood = one elder tree thing. Does collecting 25 is really such a hassle?  And few strips of thin leather section? That's a spam item, some people straight up delete it from inventory.

I agree, pricing is weird, even when using efficiency upgrades and such 25 wood thingies for chair is kinda (????) But price wise.. If u look at it without looking for immersion and just at resource/time costs then those few logs ain't really that much, if u actively play the game it's non issue, inventories clogged with basic mats. 

I understand logic behind timegates, without it there would be some big supply shocks, also it keeps players hooked for weekly logins. U might not like it but conversion limiters is a good thing and at least for few months it should be left as is.

There is lot of issues that prevents me from even starting to seriously decor, it's not mats or pricing, it's bugs of various sorts, I build few giant shrooms tho.... they are nice.

 

Homesteads is not standalone game, it's side activity for resource burn yet anet might have overlooked how trading post illiterate some rp players are, and how unlikely they are to click on efficiency upgrades and such, fireball guy here clearly never sold a thing in trading post nor he have gathering tools equiped, so he thinks 5g is weeks of grind, basic decor pricing should scale down, give them that chair for 1 refined wood at same time increase pricing of stuff like shrooms and other more novelty looking decor, give us some actual novelty stuff, let us burn a chak inf for decoration.

Some concerns and feedbacks I read is really on point but majority of these homestead threads is pure circus, im still not sure is it legit complain? Trolling? chatgpt posting? Are guys seriously saying that elder wood is rare? That placing basic trees that cost like 5 silver is out of reach of new accounts? Or they just want novelty/exotic/rare decors for free? 

I agree tho, basic structures should be lowkey free so people could familiarise with decor system, I get that u can just clean all free decorations that comes with homestead and play with those, but to do that is asking too much from avg people writing these threads.

Kodan Timber Stool, but I feel like you're stretching to misunderstand me here... 'Cause your last sentence basically summarizes the basic point I've been saying in this thread???

Homesteading is missing that "first hit is free(ish)" niche in its decoration acquisition progression that base customization systems usually come with (no, it being pre-decorated does not count, that's not my decor, and neither does being told what item to craft first).  I brought up the stool mainly 'cause the literal material requirements for such a simple construction is very funny (due note the context the post was made please!), but also because it sits comfortably in the aesthetic niche of that "rustic starter set" you see where you cobble together 3 sticks and a plank of wood to get your toes wet in the system and have something to stand in for a place to sit while you work on getting the resources to really polish things up, where now it's like a considered resource investment thanks to the timegated mats.  It, like, harshes the vibe, man..

Now, I'm lucky, I've been playing for a long time. I've got my stockpiles, I'm not hurting for gold and I pushed the mat convert/count upgrades asap.  I actually enjoy the meat of the conversion system and think it serves as a good intermediate and advanced stage for the decor acquisition progression, which I am prepared to jump straight into, but HOO BOY does it discourage that initial experimentation stage in the beginning, especially for those who are less established in the game than I am.  Gotta have that first renovation fugue state before you get inspired to make a budget spreadsheet.

[Triptaminas.4789]

1 minute ago, Roda.7468 said:

Kodan Timber Stool, but I feel like you're stretching to misunderstand me here... 'Cause your last sentence basically summarizes the basic point I've been saying in this thread???

Homesteading is missing that "first hit is free(ish)" niche in its decoration acquisition progression that base customization systems usually come with (no, it being pre-decorated does not count, that's not my decor, and neither does being told what item to craft first).  I brought up the stool mainly 'cause the literal material requirements for such a simple construction is very funny (due note the context the post was made please!), but also because it sits comfortably in the aesthetic niche of that "rustic starter set" you see where you cobble together 3 sticks and a plank of wood to get your toes wet in the system and have something to stand in for a place to sit while you work on getting the resources to really polish things up, where now it's like a considered resource investment thanks to the timegated mats.  It, like, harshes the vibe, man..

Now, I'm lucky, I've been playing for a long time. I've got my stockpiles, I'm not hurting for gold and I pushed the mat convert/count upgrades asap.  I actually enjoy the meat of the conversion system and think it serves as a good intermediate and advanced stage for the decor acquisition progression, which I am prepared to jump straight into, but HOO BOY does it discourage that initial experimentation stage in the beginning, especially for those who are less established in the game than I am.  Gotta have that first renovation fugue state before you get inspired to make a budget spreadsheet.

Yeah well I started writing as response to you and gradually ended up writing my take on topic, asides the first parts it wasn't directed at you.

I agree  , anet placed free decors but should have just gave blank slate and free mats for same starting decorations or smtg like that.

I also agree with stupidity of basic pricing, overall I agree with you lol, like I said, just used your post as anchor ⚓️ for my own take.

It gives me feel like pricing and majority of things in current patch is just placeholders, scaling of price makes no sense, quantities makes no sense, kitten ton of bugs that should have been seen after 3mins of testing, lack of basic features, those rng npc on my raptor and so on. 

It's like some early beta ver accidentally rolled into release. 

 

[Logos.5603]

14 minutes ago, Triptaminas.4789 said:

Yeah well I started writing as response to you and gradually ended up writing my take on topic, asides the first parts it wasn't directed at you.

I agree  , anet placed free decors but should have just gave blank slate and free mats for same starting decorations or smtg like that.

I also agree with stupidity of basic pricing, overall I agree with you lol, like I said, just used your post as anchor ⚓️ for my own take.

It gives me feel like pricing and majority of things in current patch is just placeholders, scaling of price makes no sense, quantities makes no sense, kitten ton of bugs that should have been seen after 3mins of testing, lack of basic features, those rng npc on my raptor and so on. 

It's like some early beta ver accidentally rolled into release. 

 

Except it didn't accidentally roll into release. These decisions are not senseless. They are just not made for the benefit of the player (the consumer) to have fun with the game, but to artificially increase "play" time. It's a play tax you have to pay in order to engage with the feature you paid for. And since they (and other games) have been doing it for 12+ years now, people have been trained to think its perfectly normal, necessary, part of the "gameplay," and (shudders) "fun." I mean "HoW eLsE CaN tHeY MaKe mOnEy!"

Edited August 26 by Logos.5603

[Roda.7468]

3 hours ago, Triptaminas.4789 said:

Yeah well I started writing as response to you and gradually ended up writing my take on topic, asides the first parts it wasn't directed at you.

I agree  , anet placed free decors but should have just gave blank slate and free mats for same starting decorations or smtg like that.

I also agree with stupidity of basic pricing, overall I agree with you lol, like I said, just used your post as anchor ⚓️ for my own take.

It gives me feel like pricing and majority of things in current patch is just placeholders, scaling of price makes no sense, quantities makes no sense, kitten ton of bugs that should have been seen after 3mins of testing, lack of basic features, those rng npc on my raptor and so on. 

It's like some early beta ver accidentally rolled into release. 

 

Gotcha, that tangent line was a bit ambiguous from the pov of my notifications box @@

I thankfully haven't experienced too many bugs outside of not obtaining an item that I should be able to craft and the joyriding kodan appearing when I have an eligible scout alt available.

I honestly get the feeling that anet over estimates just how onboarded/established most players are when it comes to the game's absolute tangle of interlocking systems.  We're just in the growing pains era of a new complex system it feels.  I'm gonna give anet a while to spin the wheels a bit before I pass too much judgement on the system as a whole, at least until they start to monetize it (beyond selling the expac of course). It feels like they can buff out some of the weirdness, fill some gaps, and chase out those bugs.  Would be nice to move the mats from the mat storage to currencies so we don't have to be fighting the inventory limits as well as THE OPPRESSION OF TIME.  That would actually help a lot.

(For anyone having trouble playing tpwars, do try to familiarize yourself with gw2efficiency yeah it's third party resources, but they do help you get your feet under you)

Edited August 26 by Roda.7468
other website decided to be less useful

[Ashen.2907]

4 hours ago, Logos.5603 said:

Yea, if you stop pretending this is an MMORPG video game and instead treat it as a business you will see, you TP illiterate noob, that you aren't being efficient! Stop wasting time having fun with the game (that's not what video games are about).

"Working is playing!" (message sponsored by the Ministry of Truth).

Decorating is work. This means that you don't consider decorating fun and believe that anyone who does it, enjoys it, is a mindless bot right?

Edited August 26 by Ashen.2907

[Cuks.8241]

4 hours ago, Logos.5603 said:

And since they (and other games) have been doing it for 12+ years now, people have been trained to think its perfectly normal, necessary, part of the "gameplay," and (shudders) "fun." I mean "HoW eLsE CaN tHeY MaKe mOnEy!"

Or maybe people enjoy it? Oh what a strange concept 😮

And it's been around much longer than 12 years. Much much longer and in many different forms. 

Why are you playing this game if you disagree with it's basic concepts that have been around for over a decade? But I guess we are all just mindless sheep and you're here to tell us better (while whining about accessibility of a doll house system in a computer game).

[Logos.5603]

49 minutes ago, Cuks.8241 said:

Or maybe people enjoy it? Oh what a strange concept 😮

And it's been around much longer than 12 years. Much much longer and in many different forms. 

Why are you playing this game if you disagree with it's basic concepts that have been around for over a decade? But I guess we are all just mindless sheep and you're here to tell us better (while whining about accessibility of a doll house system in a computer game).

Quite a strange concept indeed! No, they don't enjoy the grind (no one really does...there is nothing, in principle, to enjoy), they enjoy the "reward" and confuse the two. That's the trick. It's getting you to think that you like the grind like nice little machine.

There is an old Platonic dialogue or two that go exactly over this kind of confusion. One deals with eros, the other with piety.

I'll go further and say that grinding for rewards is anti-gaming. It is against the very essence of videoGAMING.

As for your last question...well what can I say, I'm a hypocrite, I'm bored, I'm killing time while I play mindlessly grinding away for a decoration...but I'm under no illusion that I'm having fun while I'm doing it. I bet that if you really paid close attention to your enjoyment when you play...well labor in the game, you are probably having fun 10% of the time.

Edited August 26 by Logos.5603

[Logos.5603]

1 hour ago, Ashen.2907 said:

Decorating is work. This means that you don't consider decorating fun and believe that anyone who does it, enjoys it, is a mindless bot right?

Not in this sense it isn't. It's play. The same way that painting a coloring book (though requires time) for fun isn't work. Keeping with the example, acquiring the money for the crayons, going to the shop to get the coloring book, etc., that's the work involved; that's the grind.

 

 

Edited August 26 by Logos.5603

[Scar.1793]

17 hours ago, Cuks.8241 said:

Can you give an example of a game that makes housing extremly simple with very cheap almost free unlimited items and makes a ton of money?

ESO, you can purchase furnitures in-game for a few septim, really dirt cheap. Yes some shinies are in the store but you can get something nice without spending a single Euro/Dollar.

You start with a free room, then can work your way up to a bigger house, still for gold. If you work hard you can exchange gold for a gifted house from the store, more tricky but still doable last time I played.

FFXIV would be up there too if their housing acquirement system was doggopoop.

Edited August 26 by Scar.1793

[Ashen.2907]

3 hours ago, Logos.5603 said:

Not in this sense it isn't. It's play. The same way that painting a coloring book (though requires time) for fun isn't work. Keeping with the example, acquiring the money for the crayons, going to the shop to get the coloring book, etc., that's the work involved; that's the grind.

 

 

Nope. It's work and no one actually likes it, they just like the finished product.

[Sobx.1758]

13 hours ago, Roda.7468 said:

16 hours ago, SinisterSlay.6973 said:

Slightly funny it takes an entire forest of trees to make a single chair.

This is honestly what gets me.  You're telling me that it takes a whole 25 planks of wood (~6 trees, and 10% of a default capacity material storage stockpile) and 8 sections of leather (~4 gear salvages) to make one simple stool that looks like 3 branches and a small cross section of a tree held together by a single strip of leather?

Similarly I find it funny how some people bring up "but in reality!" arguments only when it fits them. Crafting a chair from too much wood? BAD. Packing 50 stacks of 250 logs into your bags to carry them around? GOOD. Almost as if games are usually balanced based on their gameplay and not "how it would be irl". 😉 

 

12 hours ago, Logos.5603 said:

" If those players are ok with playing the game, getting materials, interacting with tp/community and, finally, maybe even spending/investing then I don't see why they would not be ok with this housing system and doing exactly that right now. All it takes is gameplay."

The assumption here is that gameplay=getting materials, interacting with TP (trading). Yup! This. THIS! Is peak gameplay. This is what I'm here for!

m'dude starts playing mmorpg and then complains that interacting with the world isn't part of rpg because pressing keys shouldn't be claimed to be part of the gameplay. Alrighty, I'm sure you can look up some single player game where you can close yourself off and either keep building in free mode or maybe use some mods/cheats to have infinite resources. If that's what you want, go do that. In an mmorpg housing understandably includes its gameplay and interaction withthe community, even if just economically.

Edited August 26 by Sobx.1758

[Ashantara.8731]

11 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Similarly I find it funny how some people bring up "but in reality!" arguments only when it fits them. Crafting a chair from too much wood? BAD. Packing 50 stacks of 250 logs into your bags to carry them around? GOOD. Almost as if games are usually balanced based on their gameplay and not "how it would be irl". 😉 

I agree. I can live with the odd choices when it comes to crafting. 😉 Only the results matter. 😁

[Logos.5603]

1 hour ago, Sobx.1758 said:

m'dude starts playing mmorpg and then complains that interacting with the world isn't part of rpg because pressing keys shouldn't be claimed to be part of the gameplay. Alrighty, I'm sure you can look up some single player game where you can close yourself off and either keep building in free mode or maybe use some mods/cheats to have infinite resources. If that's what you want, go do that. In an mmorpg housing understandably includes its gameplay and interaction withthe community, even if just economically.

Lol. Yea, that's because not all key pressing is gameplay and you've been bamboozled into thinking that it is. Not all contact with the game is gameplay. Not all interaction with the world is gameplay. Trading in the TP, for example, is not gameplay. Fetching materials is also not gameplay. Using the waypoints, accessing your bank, moving loot around, figuring out which gear to buy, going to a third party website to figure out what's "optimal," creating spread sheets, etc. It's busy work that you may do in order to play.

People call gameplay all kinds of activities that don't involve play when they interact with a game. That's were the confusion comes in. Developers, and Youtubers are both guilty of this confusion. See, for example, the whole terrible notion of a "gameplay loop."

Again with this assumption of "understandably." "Can't you see, noob, how OBVIOUS it is that MMO's need you to work in-game (i.e., grind) in order for you to have fun! It is a natural part of the game. It has always been like this! Therefore this is the best and only way!"

Yea, apart from being the norm, it is far from obvious that this needs to be this way. Explanations about the "necessity" of this always involves some naturalistic fallacy, or begging the question.

Devs have tricked players into thinking that this kind of mindless fetching is play. You even have them defending the practice.

"Work is play" (message sponsored by the Ministry of Truth).

[Roda.7468]

47 minutes ago, Logos.5603 said:

Lol. Yea, that's because not all key pressing is gameplay and you've been bamboozled into thinking that it is. Not all contact with the game is gameplay. Not all interaction with the world is gameplay. Trading in the TP, for example, is not gameplay. Fetching materials is also not gameplay. Using the waypoints, accessing your bank, moving loot around, figuring out which gear to buy, going to a third party website to figure out what's "optimal," creating spread sheets, etc. It's busy work that you may do in order to play.

People call gameplay all kinds of activities that don't involve play when they interact with a game. That's were the confusion comes in. Developers, and Youtubers are both guilty of this confusion. See, for example, the whole terrible notion of a "gameplay loop."

Again with this assumption of "understandably." "Can't you see, noob, how OBVIOUS it is that MMO's need you to work in-game (i.e., grind) in order for you to have fun! It is a natural part of the game. It has always been like this! Therefore this is the best and only way!"

Yea, apart from being the norm, it is far from obvious that this needs to be this way. Explanations about the "necessity" of this always involves some naturalistic fallacy, or begging the question.

Devs have tricked players into thinking that this kind of mindless fetching is play. You even have them defending the practice.

"Work is play" (message sponsored by the Ministry of Truth).

So like, there is a real demographic of mmo players that genuinely enjoys spreadsheeting and finding the most optimal method to reach a goal.  I, myself, am looking forward to getting a decor set theme that I like long enough to plan out a project.

[Logos.5603]

30 minutes ago, Roda.7468 said:

So like, there is a real demographic of mmo players that genuinely enjoys spreadsheeting and finding the most optimal method to reach a goal.  I, myself, am looking forward to getting a decor set theme that I like long enough to plan out a project.

Sure, they might enjoy that, but that's not gameplay, and it is most definitively not play.

[Roda.7468]

11 minutes ago, Logos.5603 said:

Sure, they might enjoy that, but that's not gameplay, and it is most definitively not play.

It's the evolution of Cool Math Games

It's the same kind of play as a kid playing house changing diapers, or playing store and counting money tokens.

It's gameplay like sudoku is gameplay

Edited August 26 by Roda.7468