VB night bosses

[willow.8209]

today i finally managed to get to a night boss before it was finished. Usually in verdant brink I work on the meta, but a lot of times people do that only enough to get helicopters, then play night bosses, then leave the map with the meta undone (I would like to complete the armor sets, for example). I typically don't manage how to figure out how to get out of combat/ to a heli from wherever I was doing events or scrounging for supplies, in time.

but tonight i just went straight to the map specifically for night boss, even though I felt weird about that. On the jungle floor, everything was contested, and the nearest rally point was at 0. I  and one other player fought off the mordrem and took back the point. Luckily I was running off-heal gear. After the capture I started toting supplies but the heli came. I took it instantly to the canopy, found a nearby boss still up, but the event area in the canopy was already at least as full as a LLA during prime time and the boss was at about 40%. 

Someone was complaining that there were a lot of AFK players ranking up the boss's HP. So it took longer than usual (they cited usual as 1 minute).

I asked how everyone got there so quickly and they said it's customary to park an alt there. That alternatively one could use a skyscale to get up. 

I'm not sure I want to participate in alt parking at an event when for this particular event, the practice excludes people or makes things harder in an unbalanced way (counting the difficulty by people who are jumping the event chain and not playing the event chain) who haven't been there yet/ don't know the convention/ want to play the meta. 

I also don't want to encourage afk-ing even if it helped me this time lol.

however I would like to earn the achievements, get rewards, etc

Is there some way to fix this so that it's more sportslike? 

[Jin.8501]

Not really. The old designers have long since left Anet and now the open world is run by the powercreep philosophy team which results old content being pita to get done with most people having flying mount and boss health not scaled to factor all the dmg boost they have given us

[bq pd.2148]

the alt parking as far as i know is done almost exclusively at matriarch there, so over the central camp. given people get meta reward after a single boss, many dont go for the other bosses after.
you can defend outposts on other parts of the map and go to a different boss, you should have enough time to reach them even if some people go for them after matriarch.

[Manpag.6421]

37 minutes ago, willow.8209 said:

I'm not sure I want to participate in alt parking at an event when for this particular event, the practice excludes people or makes things harder in an unbalanced way (counting the difficulty by people who are jumping the event chain and not playing the event chain) who haven't been there yet/ don't know the convention/ want to play the meta. 

I also don't want to encourage afk-ing even if it helped me this time lol.

however I would like to earn the achievements, get rewards, etc

Is there some way to fix this so that it's more sportslike?

Imo, the fairest way of reaping maximum reward from VB night meta is to get to the map early, climb/fly up to the matriarch's perch, and set a Jade Bot personal waypoint there. You then have the benefit of essentially having your character parked there, can participate fully in the meta, and the moment it turns :09 (which is when the bosses spawn), use the WP to get up there, which can be done even if you're in combat.

I think the issue is that that the choppers land at :10,  a minute after the bosses have already spawned, so often the matriarch is killed by the time you get there the intended way.

[Dean Calaway.9718]

1 hour ago, willow.8209 said:

I asked how everyone got there so quickly (...) one could use a skyscale to get up. 

You just answered your own question.

1 hour ago, willow.8209 said:

Is there some way to fix this so that it's more sportslike?

Not really, the Matriarch is listed on farming sites as one of the most alt-park profitable spots. Even if you forced everyone that logs in into the entrance of the map, they'd still rush it up there for the rewards and ignore everything else.

If you think that's bad look at the state of Dragon Stand, you either have a Skyscale or don't bother showing up, believe it or not once upon a time the CC phase had Mordremoth healing up, these days with the power creep is just another burn phase.

[willow.8209]

1 hour ago, Manpag.6421 said:

I think the issue is that that the choppers land at :10,  a minute after the bosses have already spawned, so often the matriarch is killed by the time you get there the intended way.

:facepalm: 

anyway thanks for explaining

[willow.8209]

42 minutes ago, Dean Calaway.9718 said:

You just answered your own question.

not really, skyscale is easier to get nowadays but people who play in order would not have it. Or people who could afford expac at HoT but can't now. 

I'm not trying only to participate myself but to troubleshoot how more people could participate

Edited September 7 by willow.8209

[AliamRationem.5172]

1 hour ago, willow.8209 said:

today i finally managed to get to a night boss before it was finished. Usually in verdant brink I work on the meta, but a lot of times people do that only enough to get helicopters, then play night bosses, then leave the map with the meta undone (I would like to complete the armor sets, for example). I typically don't manage how to figure out how to get out of combat/ to a heli from wherever I was doing events or scrounging for supplies, in time.

but tonight i just went straight to the map specifically for night boss, even though I felt weird about that. On the jungle floor, everything was contested, and the nearest rally point was at 0. I  and one other player fought off the mordrem and took back the point. Luckily I was running off-heal gear. After the capture I started toting supplies but the heli came. I took it instantly to the canopy, found a nearby boss still up, but the event area in the canopy was already at least as full as a LLA during prime time and the boss was at about 40%. 

Someone was complaining that there were a lot of AFK players ranking up the boss's HP. So it took longer than usual (they cited usual as 1 minute).

I asked how everyone got there so quickly and they said it's customary to park an alt there. That alternatively one could use a skyscale to get up. 

I'm not sure I want to participate in alt parking at an event when for this particular event, the practice excludes people or makes things harder in an unbalanced way (counting the difficulty by people who are jumping the event chain and not playing the event chain) who haven't been there yet/ don't know the convention/ want to play the meta. 

I also don't want to encourage afk-ing even if it helped me this time lol.

however I would like to earn the achievements, get rewards, etc

Is there some way to fix this so that it's more sportslike? 

I have some good news and some bad news.  The bad news is that killing the bosses isn't enough on its own to reach tier 4 maximum reward.  The good news is that if you are going to reach T4, it'll be by organizing the map to capture, build, and defend camps all over the map before the bosses spawn, which means you'll have choppers available to get to the bosses quickly and there'll likely be a squad commander you can join who will communicate which boss they're going to next (Matriarch generally dies first).

Unfortunately, you will have to hurry because these bosses are pretty weak for meta bosses.  In fact, all of them can be done solo except the Patriach (due to his shield phases), which means they won't last long against even a small number of players who know what they're doing and those types of players usually have mounts which will get them to those bosses quickly without bothering with the choppers.

[willow.8209]

1 hour ago, bq pd.2148 said:

people get meta reward after a single boss, many dont go for the other bosses after

the meta reward depends how many tiers the night meta has got up to. 

wiki says:
 

Quote

To reach tier 4 night, about tier 2.5 needs to be achieved from the defense events and all the bosses need to be slain.

which is different to how i remember it being explained to me eons ago, probably my issue. But it's also different to how you said. 

[willow.8209]

5 minutes ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

The bad news is that killing the bosses isn't enough on its own to reach tier 4 maximum reward.

right but we need to defeat each boss at least once for the achieves. 

Edited September 7 by willow.8209

[willow.8209]

12 minutes ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

these bosses are pretty weak for meta bosses.  In fact, all of them can be done solo except the Patriach

i wonder if that's due to how the map was designed to play with a lot of people, then when the next DLC rolled nobody could play HoT (as not enough players in the old map), so they weakened to make it playable with fewer players or solo. Doesn't seem to have affected the HP but maybe it affected the scaling of the bosses. 

Edited September 7 by willow.8209

[Schimmi.6872]

31 minutes ago, willow.8209 said:

i wonder if that's due to how the map was designed to play with a lot of people, then when the next DLC rolled nobody could play HoT (as not enough players in the old map), so they weakened to make it playable with fewer players or solo. Doesn't seem to have affected the HP but maybe it affected the scaling of the bosses. 

I don't think so, because as far as I remember, the VB bosses always had this very broad range of scaling. 

[bq pd.2148]

6 hours ago, willow.8209 said:

the meta reward depends how many tiers the night meta has got up to.

right my bad - been a while since i did the meta, they don't really go for a high meta reward but the daily hero's choice chest. which does not care about tiers and only needs 1 boss kill.

[Chyro.1462]

18 hours ago, willow.8209 said:

right but we need to defeat each boss at least once for the achieves. 

Does the achieve require beating them all during the same meta event? If not just focus one boss per beta, just being the first one there so you're certain not to miss it. And if you can reach another one after that, that's a bonus. But your best bet is finding a squad/commander that intends to do the full meta, though you'll still have to keep up for bosses at the end. Or try to make your own LFG, asking for people to help doing the meta.

[Hashberry.4510]

A shame this meta went to hell, I always enjoyed it, several times a week back then.

 

The chest piece is a rare drop at least, so camping the night bosses pays off. Crappy new player experience as always.

[AliamRationem.5172]

10 hours ago, Hashberry.4510 said:

A shame this meta went to hell, I always enjoyed it, several times a week back then.

 

The chest piece is a rare drop at least, so camping the night bosses pays off. Crappy new player experience as always.

It would be nice if they would update it so that night cycle events grant crowbars and spawn airship cargo and add unique cumulative rewards for each tier in the final reward chest.  It would also be nice if crowbars could be purchased with currency.

 

[Skub.8240]

Matriarch alt parking is kind of obnoxious, imo. I love starting the event and the boss is already down to 25% hp by the time the first people, who took the chopper as soon as it spawned in arrive up there. I don't want them to actually touch the boss HP or anything, the bosses are more or less fine as-is. I just wish they could do something about that specific aspect of it, which seems unlikely because in most cases its also the only aspect of the whole meta people care about.

[Hashberry.4510]

Make her bar unbreakable for until she lands a second time.

[Mistwraithe.3106]

Thanks for raising the topic. It's a sore point for me and I think it should actually be a high priority for Anet to fix it.

Verdant Brink and Silverwastes are the first metas that a new player doing the story even vaguely in order will encounter. I worked my way through LWS2 and HoT late last year and loved it. Verdant Brink in particular is an amazing map if you are up for a bit of a challenge and I was. I have a friend who says it's the best map in the game and despite starting several months after me he now has double the airship parts I do.

Anyway, the point is that any new players going through the VB map for the first time will have done the various event trails, then the outpost defences, then finally they have held out long enough that the assault is being taken back to the Modrem bosses in the canopy. Except, if it is their first time they have essentially zero chance of getting to fight the Matriarch. By the time they work out what is going on, get to a chopper at a pact controlled camp and get up to the canopy the Matriarch has been killed by 40 people who only arrived on the map two minutes earlier. That's assuming you can even find a pact controlled camp as they will often flip just before the choppers arrive. This happened to me and it was so deflating. They've done the meta, done what they were meant to, then the culmination of that is gone.

This is not the right introduction to GW2 metas. I think Anet should prevent spawning in the canopy for 10 minutes before and 5 minutes after the choppers arrive. Anyone who tries to spawn in the canopy during this time gets bumped back to the main waypoint. If they want to go back up then they need to help the other non-alt-camping players to flip a camp and get up.

I'll likely get confused responses to this, people are addicted to their easy alt spawns. But boss alt spawns are bad for the game and this one is by far the worst of all of them because of how fast Matriarch gets destroyed and how critical it is to new players.

[Manpag.6421]

8 hours ago, Mistwraithe.3106 said:

They've done the meta, done what they were meant to, then the culmination of that is gone.

I agree with everything else you've said, and the fact that it could use a rework/fix on the whole, but just wanted to point out that this doesn't necessarily rob people playing the meta "properly" of much bar the chance of a Bladed Coat/Gloves box, because any of the bosses will give the Hero's Choice chest which can be considered the "main" meta reward. It isn't a great experience and I would like to see it changed, but a newer player isn't likely too aware of this stuff or looking to min-max their meta rewards like the people parking their alts are.

[Mistwraithe.3106]

21 minutes ago, Manpag.6421 said:

I agree with everything else you've said, and the fact that it could use a rework/fix on the whole, but just wanted to point out that this doesn't necessarily rob people playing the meta "properly" of much bar the chance of a Bladed Coat/Gloves box, because any of the bosses will give the Hero's Choice chest which can be considered the "main" meta reward. It isn't a great experience and I would like to see it changed, but a newer player isn't likely too aware of this stuff or looking to min-max their meta rewards like the people parking their alts are.

Thanks. I disagree slightly tho, for a new player the matriarch is by far the easiest to access of the bosses which drop the heroes choice chest. If you don’t have updrafts, lean gliding, advanced gliding for patriarch, or bouncy mushrooms for some of the others, or aren’t lucky enough to arrive at some of the others when there are enough players there then you miss out.

Matriarch is the guaranteed easy one that you only need basic gliding for and will always have enough allies to be able to beat. That is the one new players need to have a much better chance at.

Edited September 10 by Mistwraithe.3106

[AliamRationem.5172]

10 hours ago, Mistwraithe.3106 said:

Thanks for raising the topic. It's a sore point for me and I think it should actually be a high priority for Anet to fix it.

Verdant Brink and Silverwastes are the first metas that a new player doing the story even vaguely in order will encounter. I worked my way through LWS2 and HoT late last year and loved it. Verdant Brink in particular is an amazing map if you are up for a bit of a challenge and I was. I have a friend who says it's the best map in the game and despite starting several months after me he now has double the airship parts I do.

Anyway, the point is that any new players going through the VB map for the first time will have done the various event trails, then the outpost defences, then finally they have held out long enough that the assault is being taken back to the Modrem bosses in the canopy. Except, if it is their first time they have essentially zero chance of getting to fight the Matriarch. By the time they work out what is going on, get to a chopper at a pact controlled camp and get up to the canopy the Matriarch has been killed by 40 people who only arrived on the map two minutes earlier. That's assuming you can even find a pact controlled camp as they will often flip just before the choppers arrive. This happened to me and it was so deflating. They've done the meta, done what they were meant to, then the culmination of that is gone.

This is not the right introduction to GW2 metas. I think Anet should prevent spawning in the canopy for 10 minutes before and 5 minutes after the choppers arrive. Anyone who tries to spawn in the canopy during this time gets bumped back to the main waypoint. If they want to go back up then they need to help the other non-alt-camping players to flip a camp and get up.

I'll likely get confused responses to this, people are addicted to their easy alt spawns. But boss alt spawns are bad for the game and this one is by far the worst of all of them because of how fast Matriarch gets destroyed and how critical it is to new players.

Alternatively, they could address the reason why people alt-camp Matriarch: The rewards.  VB meta never completes T4 because it requires a 45 minute long effort for practically no reward.  The camp events give no loot and no crowbars that can be converted into loot.  Meanwhile you can just show up and kill Matriarch in 2 seconds to get the Hero's Choice chest for a quick daily amalgamated gemstone worth more than the final reward chest.

This needs a rework.  Camp events should at least be dropping airship cargo and providing crowbars, they should bump up tier rewards both incremental and the final reward chest, and require a minimum level of participation to earn the Hero's Choice chest off a boss kill.  If players are expected to spend 45 minutes participating in an event, it needs to provide incentive to do so.

[casualkenny.9817]

Mmm. Any kind of rework (other than making choppers spawn 2min earlier or something) will kill the map.

 

If they, for eg, put in a LOT of effort into making the boss areas no-cheese zones that require capturing the chopper camps, that is partly doable but most people will just wait at the wp for others to clear that 1 camp.

 

If they, for eg, transferred the hero choice chest to a T4 map, with no additional new good loot, the map will be dead.

 

In the current situation, you can at least ask on map for people to help with a specific boss, and maybe half the time some players who have spare time will drop by to help after matriarch. If you kill the daily matriarch routine, then it's over for you. 

 

If you are looking for a map meta that is newbie friendly, go to auric basin. That should have been the first map gameplay-wise.

 

HoT is so old it got bundled with PoF. Chasing vets away from the map won't improve your experience.

Imo 

The choice isn't cheese Vs  force old players to get T4

The choice is cheese Vs old players no longer visiting VB as part of their daily routine

 

[Mistwraithe.3106]

12 hours ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

Alternatively, they could address the reason why people alt-camp Matriarch: The rewards.  VB meta never completes T4 because it requires a 45 minute long effort for practically no reward.  The camp events give no loot and no crowbars that can be converted into loot.  Meanwhile you can just show up and kill Matriarch in 2 seconds to get the Hero's Choice chest for a quick daily amalgamated gemstone worth more than the final reward chest.

This needs a rework.  Camp events should at least be dropping airship cargo and providing crowbars, they should bump up tier rewards both incremental and the final reward chest, and require a minimum level of participation to earn the Hero's Choice chest off a boss kill.  If players are expected to spend 45 minutes participating in an event, it needs to provide incentive to do so.

There are probably lots of ways of fixing it, I'm not fussed which route they take but I think it should be fixed.

[Mistwraithe.3106]

1 hour ago, casualkenny.9817 said:

Mmm. Any kind of rework (other than making choppers spawn 2min earlier or something) will kill the map.

 

If they, for eg, put in a LOT of effort into making the boss areas no-cheese zones that require capturing the chopper camps, that is partly doable but most people will just wait at the wp for others to clear that 1 camp.

 

If they, for eg, transferred the hero choice chest to a T4 map, with no additional new good loot, the map will be dead.

 

In the current situation, you can at least ask on map for people to help with a specific boss, and maybe half the time some players who have spare time will drop by to help after matriarch. If you kill the daily matriarch routine, then it's over for you. 

 

If you are looking for a map meta that is newbie friendly, go to auric basin. That should have been the first map gameplay-wise.

 

HoT is so old it got bundled with PoF. Chasing vets away from the map won't improve your experience.

Imo 

The choice isn't cheese Vs  force old players to get T4

The choice is cheese Vs old players no longer visiting VB as part of their daily routine

 

I agree that I want VB to remain a fairly popular map so that new players encounter other players running around on the map.

However, having 50 people log in for 5 minutes on a single platform in the canopy doesn't contribute to that. I've spawned at Matriarch before to see what it's like and by my estimation 90% of the alt spawners log out within a minute of the Matriarch dying. I think a very tiny portion of them hang around to do another boss. New players won't even know most of them were ever there, all a new player sees when they work out how to get up there is a united legion waystation and maybe half a dozen people standing around (mostly people who came up via the choppers because as mentioned the alt spawners generally leave fast).

So by all mean tweak rewards to ensure people don't forget the map but make it so that new players have a reasonable chance of getting up to Matriarch before it dies.

If spawning the choppers earlier and/or having Matriarch invulnerable for 1-2 minutes will solve it then that's fine with me.