October 8 Balance Update Preview

[Maze.3892]

RIP my dear hscourge 😭 I feel like you taking away everything that was so special about necro...

[Nimafor.1756]

I think the transfusion change should only be applied to wvw and pvp

[Nash.2681]

While I think transfusion in it's current state offered too much hard carry potential, this change comes close to smiter's booning.

I'd rather have them increasing the cd of garish pillar to 25 seconds (and maybe increase the fear duration by 0.5 or 1 second) and make only the heal part an unconditional AoE. For the down state teleport I'd suggest something like "if there's a downed ally in one of your sandshades, teleport it to your location". Heck, they could even make it single target only, like "if there are downed allies in your sandshades, teleport the farthest to your location". 

That way the skill would retain some of it's signature feature and require players to pay attention on where they put their sandshades, while still reducing its hard carry potential.

Without the downstate rezz at all it's just another burst heal. Yawn.

[Umadusa.5874]

PLEASE remove the ally/enemy target thing from revenant scepter. It feels horrible and out of place.

[Mae.1729]

After reflecting on the transfusion issue for a couple of day, this change seems even far worse to me.
Yes, it's strong. But considering where you actually use it, it's fine. I can barely remember running with exp groups that would want to touch healscourge if they don't have to. There are too many way stronger, better options. Even if you consider the barrier and condi removal.

But when you actually need to carry, transfusion(in it's current state) is in my oppinion NOT a game breaker, but a game changer to help THOSE newbies pass. Even through the "git gud"-oppinion is totally legit, I don't think it's the most healthy thing for this game's PvE endgame. And even through GW2 engame encounters are for the most part excellent, it's just too little content to retain big amounts of exp players. That's why we are absolutly dependant on fresh blood. And THIS is where healscourge has played  a big role in the last years. This is what I don't want to lose.


If the problem with transfusion lies in fact mainly in WvW, there might be enough options to split it between the game modes.
For example... what about splitting the radius of the teleport? Keep it as it is in PvE and set it WvW/PvP to 0 or almost 0? There should be many options to handle this issue.

[StraightPath.3972]

Thumbs up for cele nerf.
Now let's make this (or next patch) great again and remove the alacrity relic.
We don't need more alacrity spellbreakers.

[Remus Darkblight.1673]

On 9/13/2024 at 8:34 PM, Joie.6084 said:

The Celestial attribute combination has been exceptionally powerful in WvW since the addition of concentration and expertise, and it's something that we've been monitoring for some time. With this update, we're introducing the tech to adjust equipment's attribute distribution and the amount of attributes it provides on a per game–mode basis. The first use of this will be to remove both concentration and expertise from equipment with Celestial attributes in WvW only, to bring it back in line with other attributes. We'll be keeping an eye on how the tech performs and whether it needs any final touches, but, assuming everything goes well, it's something that we may use going forward to tune other attribute combinations in WvW specifically.

• Celestial equipment will no longer grant concentration or expertise while in a WvW map.

[Everyone liked that.]

[Goat.4627]

On 9/13/2024 at 3:34 PM, Joie.6084 said:

Engineer

• Utility Goggles: This skill now applies protection in addition to its previous effects.

Would be really great to see Engineer also get protection or resolution on Elixir U.

Would also be nice for Laser Disk to be explosion per hit.

Edited Monday at 09:25 AM by Goat.4627

[csuvix.9284]

Engineer changes are depressing as always. 0 impact 0 fun and core issues are still not fixed. Spear is still bugged and clunky with high casting time, animation lock, forced movement, and aftercast delay. Some notes to this changes:

Engineer

• Blunderbuss: Nobody plays it in PVP
• Energizing Slam: Nobody plays it in WVW
• Healing Mist: Non existent with HAM only good for wvw zerg play
• Utility Goggles: Nobody takes it as a ultility skill. For Reactive lenses trait thanks I guess? But Gadgeteer trait do the same. Do I see changes for Gadgeteer trait? NO
• Regenerating Mist: Thanks I guess?
• Smoke Vent: Only impactful change.
• Elixir X: Now I can stress every 75s instead of 85s which state I get. Man just change this ELITE! skill entirely.
• Energy Amplifier: Only good for Bunker down meme builds.

Scrapper

• Kinetic Accelerators: The way we apply this is bad. I still don't understand to this day why it was changed.

Holosmith

• Crystal Configuration: Eclipse: Why? Why not Crystal Configuration: Storm?

[Malus.2184]

13 hours ago, Shade.8037 said:

No, they are absolutely not. Know what happens when a newbie screws up in a halfway decent group without scourge? They die, stay there, and the group finishes the boss. They learn, NOTHING. 

Know what helps them learn? Getting slammed down, then getting rezed again to PRACTICE the fight. No one, is wiping because the new guy died, most stuff can be finished with several people down, so all in the world this does is make a BIGGER barrier to entry for all new raiders, which is stupid with them trying to bring people INTO instanced content with this xpack, this change is utterly counter intuitive.

Also, hey, you figured it out, barriers have nothing to do with necromancy...thus are a garbage replacement for the identity of the necromancer class. Well done, ya done figured it out.

Yeah, that's incorrect. Few people have learned anything from success and having no consequences for failing is interpreted as success by people. People only really learn from failure. Pretty much all scientific and technological advances have been made by learning from the failures of previous attempts.

You like to think that what you say is correct because you subconsciously see nothing wrong with Transfusion despite it being better than the foundational mechanics of elite specs despite only being a trait choice.

[Malus.2184]

15 hours ago, Gaiawolf.8261 said:

Rall's Rest is an NA team. 😉 We were Lutgardis Conservatory. kitten these alliances and names. LOL. 

Edit: And to think I used to kill Sanctum of Rall players with a passion....

Fair enough then. I know nothing about the standards of the WvW players on the NA side. I just know that in the EU side things are markedly different and the players in high their are extremely skilled. Like the immortal Cele Thief I mentioned in another post.

[Malus.2184]

I wonder how many people would be taking "Transfusion" if it came with an actual opportunity cost?

Turn it into a Utility Skill that when used ports people to you and transfuses them with the Life Force for your Shroud.

The Ranger's "Search and Rescue" comes with that and only really a Druid in Celestial Avatar can make the mass ress. That's a pretty hefty opportunity cost.

Make "Transfusion" remain as it is and make it a Skill rather than an auxiliary effect of a Trait. All the defenders of this saying "Necro identity" should be fine with this change since it allows for the "identity" to be kept. I'll be waiting.

 

Edited Monday at 11:24 AM by Malus.2184

[WingSwipe.3084]

On 9/13/2024 at 9:34 PM, Joie.6084 said:

Warrior

Similar to the upcoming change to Kinetic Accelerators for quickness-based scrappers, Heat the Soul will now also grant might to allies to give quickness-based berserkers better might coverage. We've also made some improvements to off-hand dagger and rifle and tuned up a number of underperforming skills and traits.

Sounds very nice, lets see here.

On 9/13/2024 at 9:34 PM, Joie.6084 said:

• Volley: Increased the power coefficient per strike from 0.75 to 0.8 in PvE only.
• Explosive Shell: Increased the power coefficient from 1.5 to 1.6 in PvE only.
•  Rifle Butt: Reduced the cooldown from 20 seconds to 15 seconds in PvE only.

Thats... insultingly little change. The fact that this is a part of the balance patch means you acknowledge warrior rifle is just plain awful but not the the degree of how awful it is.
This will make no changes for the PvE side of equipment rotation at all. Spear is just plain better in all aspects.
Warrior rifle needs a complete overhaul, for suggestions you can check the link to the issues warrior faces in my signature.

On 9/13/2024 at 9:34 PM, Joie.6084 said:

Tremor: This skill now recharges Crushing Blow if it strikes an enemy.

Actually a super interesting addition, allowing it to function much like hammer for warrior is a very welcome addition, excellent change.

On 9/13/2024 at 9:34 PM, Joie.6084 said:

• Wastrel's Ruin: This skill now always inflicts its bonuses against defiant enemies. Increased the maximum number of targets from 1 to 2.
• Bladestorm: Increased the barrier per hit from 289 to 445.

Interesting changes for offhand dagger, could increase viability of dagger for other playstyles then Spellbreaker. Think this is going to give SPB more tools that we really dont need to give it though. Will wait and see how this affects gameplay.

On 9/13/2024 at 9:34 PM, Joie.6084 said:

Kick: This skill now deals bonus defiance-bar damage.

Uhhh... thanks?
There are a lot of other options that need drastic tuning up other then Kick, but we'll take anything we can get I guess.

On 9/13/2024 at 9:34 PM, Joie.6084 said:

• Dolyak Signet: The passive effect of this skill now grants reduced incoming damage instead of toughness.
• Signet of Stamina: Reduced the cooldown from 30 seconds to 20 seconds in PvE only

Mostly PvE change for this but Dolyak signet could be interesting in PvP. Will wait and see.

On 9/13/2024 at 9:34 PM, Joie.6084 said:

• "To the Limit!": Increased the endurance gain from 50 to 100 in PvE and from 65 to 100 in PvP.
• Rampage: Reduced the cooldown from 90 seconds to 60 seconds in PvE only.

"To the limit" change is very welcome, meta is quite dodge heavy as it is though and this is going to buff SPB with his Relic of Rives spam.
Welcome change but keep that in mind.
"Rampage" in PvE is almost useless compared to other elite choices. Playing core and having access to it more in PvE could be nice though.

On 9/13/2024 at 9:34 PM, Joie.6084 said:

Burst Precision: Increased the bonus ferocity from 150 to 250.

Oh wow, im absolutely not opposed to 100 more ferocity but im pretty sure this is just going to buff the meme oneshot builds warrior runs in PvP.
Free damage in PvE though, very nice.

On 9/13/2024 at 9:34 PM, Joie.6084 said:

• Martial Cadence: Increased the number of conditions removed from 1 to 2 in PvE and PvP.

Berserker

• Heat the Soul: This trait now applies might to allies in addition to its previous effects.

Straight buffs to quickness zerker supp in PvE, we love to see it.
Martial Cadence changes could be nice in PvP as well, with the relic this now cleansing now clears 3 condis. This is in direct competition with Vigorous Shouts though and thats a LOT of healing your missing out on. Staff also got overnerfed in PvP, giving it back healing via more scaling on healing power would be a much better solution then just gutting its healing potential for warrior support builds.

On 9/13/2024 at 9:34 PM, Joie.6084 said:

Spellbreaker

• Sun and Moon Style: This trait now heals for a percentage of all strike damage instead of only critical hit damage.

Great for PvE, sustain for days.
Horrific implication for PvP, thats like having a permanent Relic of Zakiros with Fury but without the extra in a trait choice.
Loss Aversion is a great trait, this could quickly become oppressive on its own. Stack this on a defence hammer build and it could potentially heal for quite a lot under the duration of a teamfight.

_____________________________________

All in all, some numbers tuning and buffs to SPB in PvE and PvP.

Almost the entire PvP community had their panties in a twist for months about SPB and staff. Now your just giving them the option to have innate healing in their kit. This in combo with Bladestorm might give SPB a lot more sustain then you intended.

Then again, we have Willbenders just roaming around, freely ganking people with spear so you might just have this as an intended consequence.

Warriors need much more help then this, adress Zerker and for the love of Grenth get Bladesworn off life support, its been nerfed out of any competitive environment and you barely see it in PvE either. I see more Core warrior builds the BSW in the wild.

If you need pointers just tap any warrior on the warrior forums and we can give a lot of pointers, just pick anyone, please.

[Sunyavadin.7962]

On 9/15/2024 at 3:47 AM, Riot Inducer.8964 said:

Keep the teleport for PvE at least.

Might show up with popcorn to a few Gerent metas to see just how frustrated the comms get with everyone used to being teleported out of fields not WPing.

[Vigothoras.1274]

Should probably have mentioned this in my initial reply but better late then never.

If buffs for Kick are on the table, consider reducing cast/aftercast duration and/or buffing the triggered component of Peak Performance. Kick has the unique distinction of being an ammunition skill that simultaneously triggers traits keyed to CC, physical AND movement but outside of solo play these benefits are overshadowed by Signet of Fury and Signet of Might. Another way of encouraging this play pattern in Spellbreaker is to change Attacker's Insight into having a shorter duration but stronger effect (Either by increasing the stat gain or maximum number of stacks). If you're looking to rein in the powercreep, I'd also generally recommend nerfing the passives on Signet of Fury and Might as they're basically auto-includes in PvE that crowd out more interesting options.

I would also recommend caution with the current direction of the Kick buffs. The only times I currently use Kick is either for pushing during south Octovine or as a Quickness enabler in open world (Triggers Aggressive Onslaught). I suspect there is a sour spot where the knockback distance is too far to allow convenient follow ups in open world while still being too short to be useful in more demanding pushing roles like for Soulless Horror and Samarog.

Also, if you buff knockback distance enough, consider making it a launch instead of a knockback. No balance reason, I just think it would look funnier considering some of the kicking animations.

[MKJO.8970]

On 9/13/2024 at 10:02 PM, Demonlordzzz.5916 said:

Hello,

Sorry if I am a bit aggressive here but why do you keep nerfing the thief over and over? My main is a thief and is less and less fun to play with. I am not talking here about open world. In open world it is fun but honestly for fractals and raid he isn't good or useful at anything. Having Helmet Breaker spamable at least could assign some utility to the thief class by providing defiance bar break. Now it is useless there as well. Power daredevil is dead and the class shall be soon dead as well. You keep creating monster of unbalanced classes that deal over 9999 damage but the thief is too op and it deserves a nerf as usual.

Daredevil is dead and is Thief? This makes no sense.. I am a Thief main and I do ALL raids and strikes on Thief.

Condi daredevil is legit one of the strongest condi builds for almost any condi boss in the game. Like, it is without any contest.

Power daredevil is thriving on Staff. It is a niche encounter situation, but the performance on power staff devil is pretty good. Adding in some fluidity to the playstyle can only be perceived as a welcoming change to the most clunky weapon in the game. Sad that you are not able to spam cc - but dude, you got Basi Venom.. You are FINE in regards to cc, plus the flipover from Fist Flurry. NOW, have you watched rescent benchmarks for spear.. Preliminary at 44 k/s. Therefore, power daredevil is better than ever already and the staff changes only makes it better.

Oh, you do also have Power Deadeye. Rifle + D/D has been a stable build for MONTHS. It is top tier dps build.

In my opinion; you should be welcoming these changes! Thiefs are seeing nothing but WINS these days. The Thief is far from perfect and still needs alot of love. But everything is going in the right direction. One thing I would love ANet to do is to tweak the utilities of the Thief though and balance the weapons accordingly. The Thief offer nothing but DPS and CC at the moment. 

[MKJO.8970]

So should I slot in Double Daggers for Spellbreaker instead of Dagger Axe? And is there valid endgame builds for double maces??!!!

[reapex.8546]

16 minutes ago, MKJO.8970 said:

And is there valid endgame builds for double maces??!!!

Mace / Mace warrior could be useful for core warrior in sPvP, due to all the CCs it has.

[Vigothoras.1274]

Some more thoughts, this time on necro (which I don't play much).

I cannot speak for Transfusions strength but I do agree that it is iconic. A compromise could be to make it function a bit like Warrior's Vengence: Give the resurrectee a time window in which they instantly die if they are downed again and/or force them to get kills within the window lest they die when time runs out. This would also give the skill more strategic weight as rezzing someone who doesn't have long to live makes them even more vulnerable and risks rallying enemies.

Removal of extirpate is also kinda puzzling as it's a cool mechanic. I'd honestly go so far as to hand the mechanic out to more professions and skills, particularly those that provided strips or corrupts in the past but got nerfed.

[LilBiM.3581]

While we are nuking Cele can we also Nuke Trailblazers too? Can we make it Toughness -> Precision, Vitality -> Healing Power.

 

Thanks.

[Taydo.1926]

The transfusion nerf genuinely makes me want to take a break from this game and I probably will, I think its value of getting new players into pve content has been ignored

Edited Monday at 12:04 PM by Taydo.1926

[willow.8209]

On 9/16/2024 at 5:02 AM, LilBiM.3581 said:

While we are nuking Cele can we also Nuke Trailblazers too? Can we make it Toughness -> Precision, Vitality -> Healing Power.

 

Thanks.

only if we also take vitality and toughness off of all wvw-utilized power gear (note, this is sarcasm to make a point, it is not an actual suggestion--tho there's no danger of anyone nerfing any burst damage gear as that's clearly the favorite)

otoh I'd be in favor of adding a, let's see trailblazer is condi, toughness, vitality, expertise and you want condi, precision, healing power, expertise i have no objection to adding that gear but only if it's not at pain of removing something

Edited yesterday at 01:36 AM by willow.8209
brain fog

[willow.8209]

45 minutes ago, MKJO.8970 said:

And is there valid endgame builds for double maces

mace/mace goes well on SB and probably other ranger specs

[LilBiM.3581]

15 minutes ago, willow.8209 said:

only if we also take vitality and toughness off of all wvw-utilized power gear (note, this is sarcasm to make a point, it is not an actual suggestion--tho there's no danger of anyone removing precision and ferocity from anything)

otoh I'd be in favor of adding a, let's see trailblazer is condi, toughness, vitality, expertise and you want condi, precision, healing power, expertise i have no objection to adding that gear but only if it's not at pain of removing something

You don't know how broken that setup is. Trailblazers is Marauders with Toughness added as also as a main stat. Let's nuke it, that is part of what the next toxic transition will be in WvW from Celestial..

[Forgotten Legend.9281]

22 hours ago, Kulvar.1239 said:

Absolutely not! It would destroy any pretense of balance. Remember that some attribute synergize with each other. So berserker/viper is stronger than it seems even with a smaller sum.

If I look up my power build, I end up with full boons at 3764 power, 100% critical chance, and 238.67% critical damage. It's equivalent to having 8984 power.
Would I be in full celestial, which gives me 1386 less power + precision + ferocity, I would end up with 3010 power, 83.86% critical chance, and 217.27% critical damage. It's equivalent to having 5970 power. That's 3014 less equivalent power.

If you want to have the same sum for all gear combinations, you need to remove all synergy or mirror mechanics so there's no particular benefit to anything over something else.
It would mean that condition damage ticks can critical hit, toughness also reduces incoming condition damage, cleanses only remove non-damaging conditions, expertise only increase non-damaging condition duration, concentration do not increase regeneration duration because it's booster by healing power.

An other issue is that by increasing 3-stats by 30% would further promote full berzerker one-shot build that would devolve into absolute kitten show with new players leaving in droves WvW and WvW dying a slow death, similar to how sPvP died. Even enabling jade bot core health bonus in WvW wouldn't prevent that.
You would also find a whole lot of players in full minstrel/nomad gear to avoid dying and turning WvW into a worse slog fest with tightly packed unkillable boonballs with no fighting power causing endless stalemates. And if those are also removed from WvW, then WvW will die like sPvP, see above.

pretense of balance? don't make me laugh... that disappeared with the introduction of CondiSpam and was further ground into dust with BoonSpam