Janthir Wilds Story Issue (SPOILERS!)

[Mungrul.9358]

For the most part, I've really enjoyed the JW story, and found it a lot more engaging than SotO or EoD so far.

However, I can't help but feel that that new representation of the Titans feels more like bad fan fiction.

Why do they need to speak?
Even worse, why do they need to speak like bratty teens from our world?

The move to make Demons sympathetic in SotO was widely seen as being a mistake, and I can't help but feel that the writing team are making similarly bad decisions with the Titans in JW.
There's no need to anthropomorphise them at all as far as I'm concerned; their impact would be far stronger if they remained cosmic, unknowable threats of a Lovecraftian nature.

At the moment, it feels like they're not even Titans, but rather constructs being controlled remotely by bratty Inquest Asura.

Not good writing at all, and taints some otherwise good story-telling.

Remember Writing 101 guys:
Show, don't tell.

Edited September 30 by Mungrul.9358
There is no Jam in Janthir Wilds. ONLY HONEY.

[Crono.4197]

Totally agree.

Even the Elder Dragons was better when they were just forces of destruction and they didn't talk, didn't have a personality, just wanted to destroy the world.

But ever since Kralkatorrik, seems like every enemy must be made so that we empathize with them/relate to the fact that they are human-like.

[Astralporing.1957]

30 minutes ago, Mungrul.9358 said:

At the moment, it feels like they're not even Titans, but rather constructs being controlled remotely by bratty Inquest Asura.

There are some strong hints that those are not real titans in their original version, but rather titans controlled by souls/minds of Mae twins (the creepy white mantle twins we meet as bloodstone ghosts in the story). The way they speak is identical.

Yes, normal titans are not supposed to be so humanized in their behaviour - even those intelligent enough to actually speak. It remains to be seen if this case is intentional, and has a narrative purpose, or just another attempt at lore assassination via ignorance or not caring.

[Mungrul.9358]

Even so, it's still pretty cringe-worthy writing.

[Randulf.7614]

There’s an interesting topic in the lore forum about this and the over humanising  of monsters if you want to read mire thoughts 

[Mungrul.9358]

Thanks @Randulf.7614, I'll take a look.

[Skub.8240]

1 hour ago, Crono.4197 said:

Totally agree.

Even the Elder Dragons was better when they were just forces of destruction and they didn't talk, didn't have a personality, just wanted to destroy the world.

But ever since Kralkatorrik, seems like every enemy must be made so that we empathize with them/relate to the fact that they are human-like.

My man, the literal quest after we kill Scarlett Taimi starts going on about how she was just a misunderstood genius and it comes up multiple times throughout the story after that. This game's writing has a very, very, serious issue with having villains that can actually be villains with villainous motivations. Almost all of them have to have melodramatic backgrounds about how it wasn't their fault they were evil, or how they wanted to be good guys, or that they thought they were doing the right thing. Except they're never introduced like that. They're always introduced as The Joker and then after we kick their kitten someone's like "actually they weren't evil" or they give a big long death speech about how they were actually just a kind and loving uncle all along, or some rubbish like that.

[Mungrul.9358]

And the absolute best villain we've had, Palawa Ignacious Joko (Praise be his name), despite having "lived" for hundreds of years and been present in the original game, dies an ignoble, irreversible death as dragon chow.
Joko was an excellent villain; scenery-chewing, populist, revisionist, and yet he constructed a civilisation we were forced to work with.

I know that the inclination is to write all stories as problems to be solved by the players.
But things would be MUCH more interesting if Joko were still around.

[Randulf.7614]

1 hour ago, Mungrul.9358 said:

Thanks @Randulf.7614, I'll take a look.

I should have linked it as well, my bad 

 

[Mungrul.9358]

No worries, it was easy enough to find 🙂

[Gop.8713]

I don't think I've ever heard anyone use chewing the scenery as a compliment before ; p

Also, I always took Taimi's infatuation with Scarlet as meant to remind us of Taimi's naivete, not Scarlet's innocence, or an excuse for her actions . . .

[Mungrul.9358]

5 minutes ago, Gop.8713 said:

I don't think I've ever heard anyone use chewing the scenery as a compliment before ; p

Pre-emptive apologies for potentially sending you down a TVTropes rabbithole, but:
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ChewingTheScenery

[Gop.8713]

Don't worry, I'm not invested enough to follow a link, just struck me funny to see someone use it as complimentary . . .

[Dean Calaway.9718]

3 hours ago, Mungrul.9358 said:

the absolute best villain we've had, Palawa Ignacious Joko

A literal Sunday morning cartoon villain for infants...

 

[Skub.8240]

3 minutes ago, Dean Calaway.9718 said:

A literal Sunday morning cartoon villain for infants...

 

And he's the best antagonist this game's got.

[Astralporing.1957]

On 9/30/2024 at 3:02 PM, Gop.8713 said:

Also, I always took Taimi's infatuation with Scarlet as meant to remind us of Taimi's naivete, not Scarlet's innocence, or an excuse for her actions . . .

And then EoD happened...

[HotDelirium.7984]

On 9/30/2024 at 4:01 AM, Mungrul.9358 said:

And the absolute best villain we've had, Palawa Ignacious Joko (Praise be his name), despite having "lived" for hundreds of years and been present in the original game, dies an ignoble, irreversible death as dragon chow.
Joko was an excellent villain; scenery-chewing, populist, revisionist, and yet he constructed a civilisation we were forced to work with.

I know that the inclination is to write all stories as problems to be solved by the players.
But things would be MUCH more interesting if Joko were still around.

Joko isn't ded...his spirit shows up at Halloween xD

[HotDelirium.7984]

On 9/30/2024 at 1:28 AM, Mungrul.9358 said:

For the most part, I've really enjoyed the JW story, and found it a lot more engaging than SotO or EoD so far.

However, I can't help but feel that that new representation of the Titans feels more like bad fan fiction.

Why do they need to speak?
Even worse, why do they need to speak like bratty teens from our world?

The move to make Demons sympathetic in SotO was widely seen as being a mistake, and I can't help but feel that the writing team are making similarly bad decisions with the Titans in JW.
There's no need to anthropomorphise them at all as far as I'm concerned; their impact would be far stronger if they remained cosmic, unknowable threats of a Lovecraftian nature.

At the moment, it feels like they're not even Titans, but rather constructs being controlled remotely by bratty Inquest Asura.

Not good writing at all, and taints some otherwise good story-telling.

Remember Writing 101 guys:
Show, don't tell.

I think its more of a plot tool. If they just moan and scream then we wouldn't know their intentions or plans or evil-ness and then we couldn't talk to the third one for even more nemesis fodder. There is a time and place for roaring unspeaking enemies but in a high fantasy MMO we need some talking most times to carry the plot foreward.

Edited Wednesday at 08:47 AM by HotDelirium.7984

[Alaia Skyhawk.5064]

To be fair these are not the first Titan's to talk. In a GW1 quest, one of the original Titan's does talk (when basically telling their Flame Legion lackey that they're not of any use anymore). So Greer and Decima talking isn't completely out of left field. There's precedence for it in the lore.

[Astralporing.1957]

14 hours ago, HotDelirium.7984 said:

I think its more of a plot tool. If they just moan and scream then we wouldn't know their intentions or plans or evil-ness and then we couldn't talk to the third one for even more nemesis fodder.

It's not that they talk. It's how they talk. Titans are not known for being great conversationists, or having vivid personalities. Even twisted ones. Meanhile Greer and Decima are just way too human (even if not exactly sane).

[Danikat.8537]

On 9/30/2024 at 2:02 PM, Gop.8713 said:

I don't think I've ever heard anyone use chewing the scenery as a compliment before ; p

Also, I always took Taimi's infatuation with Scarlet as meant to remind us of Taimi's naivete, not Scarlet's innocence, or an excuse for her actions . . .

I agree.

I think with anything any character says it's important to remember they are not omiscent and not necessarily acting as a writer stand-in to tell us the exact and complete truth about how things are, they're more likely to be giving their own interpretation (even if they think that's the truth) and could easily be wrong. Or misinformed. Or lying.

I seem to remember any time Taimi praised Scarlet someone else would remind her that Scarlet's inventions killed a lot of people and did massive damage, but Taimi was only interested in how they worked, not the end result.

[HotDelirium.7984]

1 hour ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

It's not that they talk. It's how they talk. Titans are not known for being great conversationists, or having vivid personalities. Even twisted ones. Meanhile Greer and Decima are just way too human (even if not exactly sane).

Someone said something about the twins are maybe the souls powering those titans? More to be revealed next month! IMO they don't seem very "human" they have this interesting way of delivery which I thought was to make them less human. Its unfortunate it had the opposite effect on you. I didn't like doing the exact same mechanics 3 times per titan. That was VERY unfun. If anything they coulda have changed the nodes from 1 to 3 to 5 for escalation purposes. Planting stuff 5 times x3?  ._.

Edited Thursday at 12:35 AM by HotDelirium.7984

[Astralporing.1957]

19 hours ago, HotDelirium.7984 said:

IMO they don't seem very "human" they have this interesting way of delivery which I thought was to make them less human. Its unfortunate it had the opposite effect on you.

Their "interesting way of delivery" does not make them seem inhuman. It makes them seem cruel and crazy, but in a very human way. And yes, it's the very same speech pattern the Mae twins had.

[HotDelirium.7984]

On 10/3/2024 at 1:21 PM, Astralporing.1957 said:

Their "interesting way of delivery" does not make them seem inhuman. It makes them seem cruel and crazy, but in a very human way. And yes, it's the very same speech pattern the Mae twins had.

Remnant white mantle souls being forged into titans and shoved into Tyria...hmmm. Sounds like those other Mursaat wherever are starting to make moves?

Edited Friday at 10:23 PM by HotDelirium.7984