The Verdict is in: Restructuring sucks

[XenesisII.1540]

5 hours ago, Yngvi.3452 said:

I've been in 4 alliances now because the bug keeps detaching from my wvw guild so I gave up requesting to join my guilds.

You are the most unluckiest person in the gw2, if the bug has hit you all 4 times reshuffles have happened.

[Dawdler.8521]

6 hours ago, MedievalThings.5417 said:

Hard to count last week though cause it was inundated with rush folks just getting GoB until the next one.

Yet people found it very easy to count the summer weeks. 

Bias only ever goes one way.

[TheGrimm.5624]

On 10/6/2024 at 4:15 PM, TheGrimm.5624 said:

Server pride player myself.

That said you can still make those connections. Testing this while floating in the WR. If anything it makes for some fun cross server whispers. Are you on that side this time? Are you trying to take my stuff? Did I just throw you off that wall? Do you mind if I use your tail as a scarf? 

No you can still make connections and they can last outside of the sort. If anything I would say use the 4 week sorts to make more connections. 

Wow all the confused peeps. I guess you weren't SBI. You didn't have a pub style server where we were for the most part chill. Win, lose, hold, take, who knows. What I find interesting is applying the same pub logic to sorts still work while not in an Alliance, ours up, theirs down, hold our stuff, take theirs. 

[Cuks.8241]

19 hours ago, Yngvi.3452 said:

I've been in 4 alliances now because the bug keeps detaching from my wvw guild so I gave up requesting to join my guilds.

Are you sure you're setting your wvw guild properly?

There have been several cases on the forums where users were super confident its bugs but they just didnt set it properly and were mixing up guild representation and/or team selection with wvw guild.

Also there is a lock out period. You usualy have to set your wvw guild a few days in advance before the Friday's shuffle.

[Wolfhound.4381]

43 minutes ago, Cuks.8241 said:

Also there is a lock out period. You usualy have to set your wvw guild a few days in advance before the Friday's shuffle.

I think it's the Wednesday before. Once that happens you can't change anything.

[TheGrimm.5624]

19 hours ago, Yngvi.3452 said:

we have change 3 or 4 times as I understood it, guilds banded together under one guild so that when the change happened the different guilds would still be in the same "alliance".   So just before the change occured you would make sure your wvw guild was the "alliance" guild.  I know its not termed that but thats how I understood it to work.  Our guild would say make sure your wvw guild is blah blah blah so not only did we ended up with our fellow guildies but also the guilds we were fighting with..   

In my case every time even though I had set the guild wvw well in advance I would end up in a totally different "alliance".  first few times I put in a request to join my guild but then I would be locked out of the "alliance" chat really harmed my ability to work with them. 

This does sound like you are repping the guild but not marking that guild as your WvW guild. These are two different steps. If that raises a question to you, let us know. Chaba has a thread out there with an image linked to show this as an example.

[TheGrimm.5624]

Reference from above for the image Chaba created in another thread:

https://ibb.co/LYNGC1Y

[funghetto.1584]

 

the majority of wvwers used and abused the system that you anet implemented with nor limits nor restriction (guild hall can keep for 500 players so lets get only wvwers in here), selecting a mega guild as wvw guild and result is like old system (overstacked server - all in there!)

so there is 200+ wvwers x 4-5 teams and then the leftovers aka pugs-aka casuals-aka roamers that don't fit in any mega guild - simply put in the rest 

same as pre WR, 3-4-5 teams simply steamroll everything (fow-wsr for example) (and boonball meta is a detail) 

the teams are full of example of "mega guild". but anet wants this, destroy the groups of 10 or 20

Edited October 8 by funghetto.1584

[Wolfhound.4381]

Just now, funghetto.1584 said:

 

the majority of wvwers used and abused the system that you anet implemented with nor limits nor restriction, selecting a mega guild as wvw guild and result is like old system (overstacked server - all in there!)

so there is 200+ wvwers x 4-5 teams and then the leftovers aka pugs-aka casuals-aka roamers that don't fit in any mega guild - simply put in the rest 

same as pre WR, 3-4-5 teams simply steamroll everything (fow-wsr for example) (and boonball meta is a detail) 

the teams are full of example of "mega guild". but anet wants this, destroy the groups of 10 or 20

A guild is a maximum of 500 players. It was the same limit before restructuring. Using a guild as an alliance guild does not change that.

[ChrisWhitey.9076]

1 hour ago, funghetto.1584 said:

 

the majority of wvwers used and abused the system that you anet implemented with nor limits nor restriction (guild hall can keep for 500 players so lets get only wvwers in here), selecting a mega guild as wvw guild and result is like old system (overstacked server - all in there!)

Most of these "stack" servers are not even close to full and if you wanted to follow guild rules you would probably not have difficulty with that. A good place for that would be the WvW discord server in the post below.

 

[Leger.3724]

Good. I'm so tired of roamers who lose 20 times, reset 20 times and continue to try and fight you. They're like that Moa you accidentally hit that aggros to you. Go away.

[TheGrimm.5624]

Hmm..

So been floating. And testing. And roaming, not sure I agree. 

[funghetto.1584]

to be honest im not a roamer or casual, got a guild of 10-20 players, but still most of you don't get what im trying to say.

reality: pre Hot and pre guild halls, there has always been guilds of 5-10 players (and was so simple there to have a guild-make buffs-wvw sieges), that simply or stopped playing or simply moved to other guilds.

why? because if you ever set up a guild hall (and if you never done it, well check the single costs for any single upgrade of hall - from a simple leather node, buffs, wvw room, market room, pvp room, and so on) anet consider the upgrades in mats quantity, same if you were 2 or 300 in a guild.

i state the fact that anet doesn't care of guilds-groups of less than 10. simply or you move or you stop playing. nice consideration overall. and 

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Alliances

read that, and don't tell me anet wants to simply destroy roaming and little guilds. 

as in wvw, from linking, so simple, do a blob of 50 (boonball-meta bla bla bla bla) and steamroll everything. and ez win always. wow nice concept of healthy and wvw fun etc.

i repeat, anet wants those super guilds (how many of them? 3? so they can remove all tiers and have only 1 tier of wvw? wow nice plan then)

 

[Dawdler.8521]

47 minutes ago, funghetto.1584 said:

i state the fact that anet doesn't care of guilds-groups of less than 10. simply or you move or you stop playing. nice consideration overall. and 

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Alliances

read that, and don't tell me anet wants to simply destroy roaming and little guilds. 

You didnt really understand it very much then. The point of alliances (as opposed to just having guilds like the half implementation of WR today) was that it was supposed to be easier to combine smaller guilds under one banner ie an alliance could consist of say 150+100+50+20+15+10+5 players where they where invited on an entire guild basis. If someone had a 500 man guild well they would just be the entire alliance anyway and didnt need it.

Edited October 9 by Dawdler.8521

[Cuks.8241]

1 hour ago, funghetto.1584 said:

i repeat, anet wants those super guilds (how many of them? 3? so they can remove all tiers and have only 1 tier of wvw? wow nice plan then)

 

The thing is, players want them too. Regardless what a few complainers say here, many players are and have always looked to join a big guild.

Big guilds are simply able to offer more content and other commodities to players. More commanders, more variety in content, activities in various time of day.

Sure there are big blobs and we run one too (or even more than one sometimes). But you can also find havocs, small roaming parties. And even though we are wvw guild you can easily find groups or people to help you with any pve content.

A big guild also has more resources and if you are active and friendly I've experienced several guilds straight up funding new or poor players.

So yeah youre probably right Anet is prioritizing big guilds but I wouldnt say that goes against players.

[TheGrimm.5624]

1 hour ago, funghetto.1584 said:

to be honest im not a roamer or casual, got a guild of 10-20 players, but still most of you don't get what im trying to say.

reality: pre Hot and pre guild halls, there has always been guilds of 5-10 players (and was so simple there to have a guild-make buffs-wvw sieges), that simply or stopped playing or simply moved to other guilds.

why? because if you ever set up a guild hall (and if you never done it, well check the single costs for any single upgrade of hall - from a simple leather node, buffs, wvw room, market room, pvp room, and so on) anet consider the upgrades in mats quantity, same if you were 2 or 300 in a guild.

i state the fact that anet doesn't care of guilds-groups of less than 10. simply or you move or you stop playing. nice consideration overall. and 

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Alliances

read that, and don't tell me anet wants to simply destroy roaming and little guilds. 

as in wvw, from linking, so simple, do a blob of 50 (boonball-meta bla bla bla bla) and steamroll everything. and ez win always. wow nice concept of healthy and wvw fun etc.

i repeat, anet wants those super guilds (how many of them? 3? so they can remove all tiers and have only 1 tier of wvw? wow nice plan then)

 

Guild halls are a whole separate thread and was discussed back in the day about different size guilds having the same requirements. Lots of threads on that and can be be bounced around again as a thread, but I wouldn't use it as a factor in the WR project myself. 

Sorts were going to be done via Alliances (which never came to be), then guilds, then solo players. The idea was never to just everyone else get rolled into a last server. The 'Alliance' guild is just a community guild made up of various guilds up to the normal max guild of 500. The idea of the Alliance and then later Community guild was to allow a limited numbers of players to self sort. Be that wrong or right. How the Community guilds or guilds self regulate that in requirements is each up to their own. Some might be mandating more larger scale play requirements. That's up to each guild or player to decide does that make sense to them. There are times and places for all scales of play.  

 

 

[Wolfhound.4381]

2 hours ago, funghetto.1584 said:

to be honest im not a roamer or casual, got a guild of 10-20 players, but still most of you don't get what im trying to say.

reality: pre Hot and pre guild halls, there has always been guilds of 5-10 players (and was so simple there to have a guild-make buffs-wvw sieges), that simply or stopped playing or simply moved to other guilds.

why? because if you ever set up a guild hall (and if you never done it, well check the single costs for any single upgrade of hall - from a simple leather node, buffs, wvw room, market room, pvp room, and so on) anet consider the upgrades in mats quantity, same if you were 2 or 300 in a guild.

i state the fact that anet doesn't care of guilds-groups of less than 10. simply or you move or you stop playing. nice consideration overall. and 

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Alliances

read that, and don't tell me anet wants to simply destroy roaming and little guilds. 

as in wvw, from linking, so simple, do a blob of 50 (boonball-meta bla bla bla bla) and steamroll everything. and ez win always. wow nice concept of healthy and wvw fun etc.

i repeat, anet wants those super guilds (how many of them? 3? so they can remove all tiers and have only 1 tier of wvw? wow nice plan then)

 

I'm well aware of the costs to max a guild hall. I'm about 4 upgrades from having a max level personal guild. Mind you all 7 of my accounts contribute to it.

And we're not in alliances. Alliance functionality was dropped to give us most of what they planned. They gave us an additional guild slot to do what players were already doing, banding together as an alliance using a guild. And speaking as someone in one of those alliance guilds, we don't steamroll everything. Our groups have different rally times so sometimes we have a lot of players, and other times we're about half a squad just doing the best we can. It depends on the day and who is playing. Much like before world restructuring. The only thing that's different is the groups on our team each month.

[Riba.3271]

Issue with old system (linkings) was that every relinking there were superstacked servers with incoming transfers facing against servers who lost significant portion to transfers.

Anet chose to get rid of transfers with Restructuring, when actual solution was getting rid of relinkings and making transfers more expensive in addition to limiting the time interval how often people can transfer. Stacked teams are a miniscule problem when all they are doing is facing other stacked teams in tier 1.

[funghetto.1584]

2 hours ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

You didnt really understand it very much then. The point of alliances (as opposed to just having guilds like the half implementation of WR today) was that it was supposed to be easier to combine smaller guilds under one banner ie an alliance could consist of say 150+100+50+20+15+10+5 players where they where invited on an entire guild basis. If someone had a 500 man guild well they would just be the entire alliance anyway and didnt need it.

i only see the fact that bigger guild did the alliance system by inventing a guild X and put in guild A-B-C (at one point Big guild and amx-qwop were together with lays too) as Dawn+Jugs+Rg, but surely not because they choosed the same guild, NO! it was the system that put them into 2 teams - random LOL

and thats why in 3 of this WR, my guild of 10 ended up with 3 guilds of 20-30 ONCE while on other teams or they had mega blobs (done by the guilds above) or just 2 guilds that raided some days and then rest was really casuals. so matches unbalanced. 

indeed or the team creation doesnt work (and i mean anet isnt capable of dividing lets say 10 guilds of 30 in 10 teams), or again someone is using the system as it is, doing big groups - guilds of 100+.

who cares if they play in 50 only 2-3 hours a day, they will steam roll everyone always with the fact that team creation - player division, is still not balanced and will never be if people does what im saying and trying to make understand of "regrouping" 100+ players in one bigger guild always. 

but probably as i said even before the majority of wvwers like only blobbing 🙂 and the minority and complain to anet or stop playing or simple dont care

Edited October 9 by funghetto.1584

[Dawdler.8521]

9 hours ago, funghetto.1584 said:

i only see the fact that bigger guild did the alliance system by inventing a guild X and put in guild A-B-C (at one point Big guild and amx-qwop were together with lays too) as Dawn+Jugs+Rg, but surely not because they choosed the same guild, NO! it was the system that put them into 2 teams - random LOL

and thats why in 3 of this WR, my guild of 10 ended up with 3 guilds of 20-30 ONCE while on other teams or they had mega blobs (done by the guilds above) or just 2 guilds that raided some days and then rest was really casuals. so matches unbalanced. 

indeed or the team creation doesnt work (and i mean anet isnt capable of dividing lets say 10 guilds of 30 in 10 teams), or again someone is using the system as it is, doing big groups - guilds of 100+.

who cares if they play in 50 only 2-3 hours a day, they will steam roll everyone always with the fact that team creation - player division, is still not balanced and will never be if people does what im saying and trying to make understand of "regrouping" 100+ players in one bigger guild always. 

but probably as i said even before the majority of wvwers like only blobbing 🙂 and the minority and complain to anet or stop playing or simple dont care

500 man guilds, many guilds stacking worlds and 50 man zergs existed looooooooooooong before WR. 

For some reason it's always 3 small guilds on your side in every beta while the enemy teams always have so many more guilds. Maybe Anet has intentionally flagged your account to get on those teams instead of using RNG? I guess it could be possible.

Edited October 10 by Dawdler.8521

[Mabi black.1824]

11 hours ago, funghetto.1584 said:

the alliance system by inventing a guild X and put in guild A-B-C

You have to use the right words for this topic: the 500-player limit for a WVW guild is too much. It's really stupid to keep such a large number of players together if your goal is to have small fragments to reassemble. remembering that 70 players fill an entire map.

Edited October 10 by Mabi black.1824

[Dawdler.8521]

1 hour ago, Mabi black.1824 said:

You have to use the right words for this topic: the 500-player limit for a WVW guild is too much. It's really stupid to keep such a large number of players together if your goal is to have small fragments to reassemble. remembering that 70 players fill an entire map.

A 250 man guild and another 250 man guild is the same as a 500 man guild when it comes to how many of them can queue.

In fact 500 one man guilds are the same as one 500 man guild when it comes to how many of them can queue.

You’re not talking about filling a map then, just how many can play together through the guild assigment. Which many want MORE of not less, since they want to go back to worlds eqvivalent of 2500+ in a ”guild”.

Edited October 10 by Dawdler.8521

[Hesione.9412]

46 minutes ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

A 250 man guild and another 250 man guild is the same as a 500 man guild when it comes to how many of them can queue.

Only if they are on the same shard. Because the guilds are separate, they might not be placed together. Unlike a 500-person guild, all of whom will be together.

[Dawdler.8521]

14 minutes ago, Hesione.9412 said:

Only if they are on the same shard. Because the guilds are separate, they might not be placed together. Unlike a 500-person guild, all of whom will be together.

It’s still the same as 500 when it comes to queues no matter how the groupings of guilds and randoms look.

Unless you imply that random players and small guilds do not count towards map queues…

Edited October 10 by Dawdler.8521

[Hesione.9412]

2 minutes ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

It’s still the same as 500 when it comes to queues no matter how the groupings of guilds and randoms look, when it comes to queues.

Unless you imply that random players and small guilds do not count towards map queues…

We're not talking queues. That is shifting the goalposts. We're talking unbalanced sides. And you are assuming that both 250-person guilds get put into the same shard.