Blog: Designing World Bosses in Guild Wars 2: Janthir Wilds

[Joie.6084]

Creating large-scale open world events in Guild Wars 2 is no easy task, and when the challenge involves bringing iconic titans back into the game for the first time since the original Guild Wars®, the stakes get even higher. Today, our designers Travis Battig, Peter Larkin, Matthew Burke, and Brian Gilmore share some behind-the-scenes stories about the creation of the new titans and another community-favorite world boss from Guild Wars 2®: Janthir Wilds™. Read on here.

[Kulvar.1239]

I did not realise that Greer/Decima were modified karka.

[Astralporing.1957]

Maybe i am missing something, but why is the Bog Queen called a "community favourite"? I almost never see that event being done - and when it is being done, it's usually so late into the event that it fails. That hardly looks like a mark of success and popularity to me.

[Ashantara.8731]

5 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Maybe i am missing something, but why is the Bog Queen called a "community favourite"? I almost never see that event being done - and when it is being done, it's usually so late into the event that it fails. That hardly looks like a mark of success and popularity to me.

I have the exact opposite experience.

Maybe you are not looking at the LFG and are always attempting the event on maps it is not done on?

[yoni.7015]

11 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Maybe i am missing something

You are, Bog Queen is quite popular and there are often groups for it. 

Edited 17 hours ago by yoni.7015

[Strutter.2719]

I quite like these bosses, and do them regularly (if possible). Well designed, fun and engaging, and I don't mind the world boss approach rather than having a meta, there is room for both.

For the titans specifically, I can't help but notice that it isn't very popular compared to other world bosses/metas. When it's active, it isn't particularly uncommon to see nothing in lfg in EU at peak times (sometimes there are, but more often not) which is unusual for the latest content and since it requires coordination, is a much bigger deal than something like bog queen. Presumably this comes down to rewards, which aren't great, so I would hope that this can be changed relatively easily and happens soon.

Edited 16 hours ago by Strutter.2719

[Thayon.2107]

Decima and Greer is supposed to be the flagship event for the expansion (thus far) and it's on life-support because the rewards just aren't competitive with other maps. It was dying off well before Halloween lab hit. Anet can likely check their own internal metrics and compare failure rates noting a massive problematic swing and player engagement.

Please revert the changes that were made and allow players to loot both of the bosses after the event successfully finishes.

Get rid of the daily cap limit on chests.

 

 

Edited 16 hours ago by Thayon.2107

[Strutter.2719]

14 minutes ago, Thayon.2107 said:

Decima and Greer is supposed to be the flagship event for the expansion (thus far) and it's on life-support because the rewards just aren't competitive with other maps. It was dying off well before Halloween lab hit. Anet can likely check their own internal metrics and compare failure rates noting a massive problematic swing and player engagement.

Please revert the changes that were made and allow players to loot both of the bosses after the event successfully finishes.

Get rid of the daily cap limit on chests.

 

 

I agree with the sentiment, but having to travel across the map to get more rewards isn't great either. All they would need to do is increase the rewards in the chests we can loot. Then, having each boss chest on it's on timer would encourage people to do it more. 

 

Oh, and unique rewards please! Infusions always draw a crowd, and they did just add homesteads so unique recipes would be a no brainer!

[Thayon.2107]

Yeah, fully agree with that suggestion.

[Thayon.2107]

@Strutter, I was actually considering transferring an alt account I have here on NA and move it over to EU in the hopes that player engagement for Decima and Greer was better over there. Sad to hear that it may be in a worse spot than NA at the moment.

Edited 15 hours ago by Thayon.2107

[Cameirus.8407]

a few tips for future world bosses.

1. dont have them be static.

2. dont have them be massive HP sponges.

3. Dont have a situation where players have to split dmg for a timed sync kill, and put them on opposite sides of the map (if you do, put a portal between them).

4. Dont put incredibly rare rewards (the spear) as the only real reason to replay it, when its a hard boss (as world bosses go) it will massively lower participation, make it so you can at least buy the reward at some point.

5. Dont have the WP a long way away and with a complicated way to get back via ley lines and confusing paths through buildings...(Eparch).

6. Dont have mechanics that require open world players to read a lot of tiny buff/debuff icons to do a fight correctly (Eparch)

7. DO NOT, and I cannot stress this enough, DO NOT, put boon corrupt on world bosses. You should never put players in a situation where another player giving them boons, something they cant control, can and will get them killed (as stability turning into fear does on an aoe heavy fight like this with boon corrupt).

 

On the plus side, the 2 bosses are generally quite good (with the major issues being their location, static nature, and boon corrupt), the warclaw mechanics are nicely incorporated, and the pylons/rot eruptions requiring players to move and stack are good. I think the titan encounter could have been better if you had split them into two different world boss encounters on different timers, or had them be fought together with them alternating throughout the encounter as a tag team.

The shining encounter of the expansion so far is Bog Queen, it really deserved to be a full on world boss. More like this please. Interesting but not too complex mechanics, clear telegraphing, good use of different phases including mount phases, and and interesting rot spread mechanic.

More encounters like Bog queen please, it really is hands down the best encounter in janthir wilds thus far.

Edited 13 hours ago by Cameirus.8407

[Vavume.8065]

Boss design is great but the rewards design is trash, how about work on that? My advice would be restructure your whole rewards team, starting at the top, put someone in the role that plays the game and understands how to reward people for their time. Until then I dont waste my time on these bosses...

Edited 13 hours ago by Vavume.8065

[babak.3654]

I enjoyed bog queen and the Decima/Greer fight. Now, if you could figure out how to design some decent rewards for them ...

[Randulf.7614]

4 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Maybe i am missing something, but why is the Bog Queen called a "community favourite"? I almost never see that event being done - and when it is being done, it's usually so late into the event that it fails. That hardly looks like a mark of success and popularity to me.

That's very odd. She's very popular on EU and is regularly done there and people seem to love the fight (I do). The only issue I have with it is that it is on too short a timer.. Ive never seen her fail though, but I only join when a tag is up calling it out so maybe the short respawn of the pre-event is a factor on occasion

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I enjoyed the article, but I was surprised they talked about different tactic for the Titans. Seems to be its just a dps race and nothing else outside of the 2 cc phases and the green circles/lines. I like the mechanics of the warclaw on the fight. Still like the fight though despite the reward nerfing

I know it's not strictly a world boss, but I'd like to see them give Leviathan a buff. His health drops quicker than the timer it takes for me to get there from the waypoint sometimes. I understand they took the skiff part out, but he needs more HP and a stronger defiance bar. Otherwise he's worse than most of the elites and champs in the map

 

Good article, more of this please

[Kulvar.1239]

5 hours ago, Strutter.2719 said:

For the titans specifically, I can't help but notice that it isn't very popular compared to other world bosses/metas. When it's active, it isn't particularly uncommon to see nothing in lfg in EU at peak times (sometimes there are, but more often not) which is unusual for the latest content and since it requires coordination, is a much bigger deal than something like bog queen. Presumably this comes down to rewards, which aren't great, so I would hope that this can be changed relatively easily and happens soon.

My main issue with Greer/Decima is that there are exclusive events during the world boss that pull players away from doing the bosses.

[HotDelirium.7984]

Feedback- being a fun encounter is only half the equation in game design. The other is what you get out of it and since both the bog queen and the titans give nothing great (not counting that ultra rare spear) its sad that they will languish due to the loot being poor.

I know making the titans was probably a big endeavor but fighting them two times in the story in the same way, AND as world bosses and now as raid bosses it's getting to be a bit much. We deserve different bosses not the same ones with a few different mechanics.

Edited 4 hours ago by HotDelirium.7984

[HotDelirium.7984]

2 hours ago, Randulf.7614 said:

That's very odd. She's very popular on EU and is regularly done there and people seem to love the fight (I do). The only issue I have with it is that it is on too short a timer.. Ive never seen her fail though, but I only join when a tag is up calling it out so maybe the short respawn of the pre-event is a factor on occasion

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I enjoyed the article, but I was surprised they talked about different tactic for the Titans. Seems to be its just a dps race and nothing else outside of the 2 cc phases and the green circles/lines. I like the mechanics of the warclaw on the fight. Still like the fight though despite the reward nerfing

I know it's not strictly a world boss, but I'd like to see them give Leviathan a buff. His health drops quicker than the timer it takes for me to get there from the waypoint sometimes. I understand they took the skiff part out, but he needs more HP and a stronger defiance bar. Otherwise he's worse than most of the elites and champs in the map

 

Good article, more of this please

Respectfully, they hype it up because its made with a small team over the course of months. For us, with a ton of experience in this and other games- it isn't much. I assume this is what we get while they use the majority of the resources on this side project...

Edited 10 hours ago by HotDelirium.7984

[Ashantara.8731]

2 minutes ago, HotDelirium.7984 said:

I assume this is what we get while they use the majority of the resources on this side project...

So that means for the remainder of GW2's life cycle. Because I don't see this change back to how it used to be.

[Randulf.7614]

4 minutes ago, HotDelirium.7984 said:

Respectfully, they hype it up because its made with a small team over the course of months. For us, with a ton of experience in this and other games- it isn't much. I assume this is what we get while they use the majority of the resources on this side project...

Did you reply to the wrong person?

[nicoper.3215]

Really neat blog post - I always enjoy reading the thoughts behind design of mechanics!
The fights themselves are pretty fun, but I echo the sentiment of others that there isn't enough interesting loot to make them worth repeating over and over, unlike many other open world bosses. This is especially an issue with Bog Queen, who has a rather enjoyable event but no real rewards to aim for. Some kind of unique drop would go a long way!

[HotDelirium.7984]

5 hours ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

So that means for the remainder of GW2's life cycle. Because I don't see this change back to how it used to be.

An "okay and good enough" expansion every year is better than none? In this context I suppose. 

[yoghurt.3462]

8 minutes ago, HotDelirium.7984 said:

An "okay and good enough" expansion every year is better than none? In this context I suppose. 

I love paying for content I don't play