Learn from Battl.net forums re: Thumbs Down

[Einlanzer.1627]

@DakotaCoty.5721 said:

@Einlanzer.1627 said:

@Daniel.5428 said:I just got Thumbs Down for a comment in which I was giving suggestion for new WvW mechanics. I understand that some people may disagree but seing all that Thumbs Down just makes you wanna stop posting anything on forum.

Yep. After a completely ridiculous exchange yesterday on this topic between myself and a few others, I'm pretty much done until the feature is removed.

https://gyazo.com/2a7fd206edac35b773cd4c798d2df59e

Christ... What did you do to upset people? :anguished:

I continued posting in a thread in which I became the "bad guy", leading to a multitude of cascading thumb downs from dumb people with childish vendettas that had nothing to do with the quality of the posts. Which is exactly the sort of behavior anyone should expect with this type of feature. It's utterly useless and at least mildly toxic.

[Helbjorne.9368]

@DakotaCoty.5721 said:

@Einlanzer.1627 said:

@Daniel.5428 said:I just got Thumbs Down for a comment in which I was giving suggestion for new WvW mechanics. I understand that some people may disagree but seing all that Thumbs Down just makes you wanna stop posting anything on forum.

Yep. After a completely ridiculous exchange yesterday on this topic between myself and a few others, I'm pretty much done until the feature is removed.

https://gyazo.com/2a7fd206edac35b773cd4c798d2df59e

Christ... What did you do to upset people? :anguished:

If you click on the Thumbs Down on his profile you can read his posts that received all the Thumbs Downs in the the thread that got shut down. I'll leave it at that.

[choovanski.5462]

man, the cushioned castles y'all must live in.a simple downvote is 'toxic', wow really? what happens when someone replies to your post saying your idea is dumb, or wrong. extra toxic? so toxic you just can't stand it? so toxic you are forced to log off because your river of tears has actually broken your computer?

like. really you guys?

calling it an echo chamber is so cute. it's not an echo chamber when you get both downvotes and upvotes. it's differing opinion. an echo chamber would be upvotes only, w no disagreement. which is, tbh what I think OP really wants. an agreement echo chamber where no one can express disagreement because it's too toxic.

my sides. disagreement is toxic, how do you survive in the real world.

[ayeniss.8190]

@Helbjorne.9368 said:

If you remove the option to Thumbs Down a post and leave only the option to Thumps Up a post then the only choice we have is to agree. That just creates an environment of false positivity.

Traditionally if people didn't like what you had to say they'd either say something or not say something, and move on. With the Thumbs Down we now have a third option, which allows users to quickly show their support or lack thereof for a post. If the Thumbs Down option were to be a removed, I believe that the Thumbs Up option would also have to be removed as to prevent skewed perspectives of posts.

The Thumbs system as others mentioned just acts as an informal poll. If you don't like it, ignore it.

I totally agree with you, Helbjorne.I see as those new options on Facebook.When there was only "Like" button, I was angry many times that I can't express my Dislike to the post, what makes me angry or sad - or simply I find it dumb.Yeah I know that much people are like little animals, who if see any obstacle or other opinion runs back to their safe place because they can't really defend or explain their side of view. I have a lack of ability too, but I think if someone can't stand on their own side of opinion, or only wants positive feedback to everything then it's not really a discussion at all. It's like being a child, but we can't delete everything just to make everyone lay in a confortable safe space. The forum isn't about being safe. It's about talking and discussing things, not just writing monologues.

I have already read some posts where the downvote was 3x and 4x more than upvote, and I totally agree with the post writer.

[PookieDaWombat.6209]

@meeflak.9714 said:It's kinda fun. Give me more thumbs down. Feed me friends. More salt!

Yeah, I got a few absurd ones, like over on the gender post when I said I had just a few male toons. I think boredom plays a big part for some people.

[Kreed.2768]

@sorudo.9054 said:people are generally selfish, feeding that part doesn't bold well.i agree, at least remove the thumbs down vote, anyone who doesn't agree will not use the upvote anyway.

What? So, since I don't think the downvote option should be removed it means I don't use the upvote button? And this claim is based on... what, exactly?

[meeflak.9714]

@PookieDaWombat.6209 said:

@meeflak.9714 said:It's kinda fun. Give me more thumbs down. Feed me friends. More salt!

Yeah, I got a few absurd ones, like over on the gender post when I said I had just a few male toons. I think boredom plays a big part for some people.

Downvoted for not conforming to the human female Meta..... Shame, friend...

[Baltham.8796]

If you want downvotes gone, looking to the WoW forums is probably not the best idea. Post quality went down tremendously since they got rid of them.

If voting is to be removed, it should be both up/down votes getting the axe. Having one without the other is silly.

[ancientoak.4258]

I agree, out with the downvotes. Upvotes and helpful are more then enough. But i see it the other way. Poster A makes entitled terrible post, Decent poster B downvotes post. Poster A harasses player ingame with ftp account (knowing his account name). Yes this sort of thing happens more then you may think, and some people are very sensitive of that, not a thing you want in a friendly game environment.

[Chickenooble.5014]

@choovanski.5462 said:man, the cushioned castles y'all must live in.a simple downvote is 'toxic', wow really? what happens when someone replies to your post saying your idea is kitten, or wrong. extra toxic? so toxic you just can't stand it? so toxic you are forced to log off because your river of years has actually broken your computer?

like. really you guys?

calling it an echo chamber is so cute. it's not an echo chamber when you get both downvotes and upvotes. it's differing opinion. an echo chamber would be upvotes only, w no disagreement. which is, tbh what I think OP really wants. an agreement echo chamber where no one can express disagreement because it's too toxic.

my sides. disagreement is toxic, how do you survive in the real world.

I gave this guy a thumbs up because he's absolutely right about this. Reading his post has filled me with DETERMINATION. People need to stop being hyper-sensitive to the opinion of others.

By the way, I tried using that DETERMINATION to give the OP another thumbs down but that isn't allowed. :\ Just know that I would've done it a second time if I could. :)

[Chickenooble.5014]

@ancientoak.4258 said:I agree, out with the downvotes. Upvotes and helpful are more then enough. But i see it the other way. Poster A makes entitled terrible post, Decent poster B downvotes post. Poster A harasses player ingame with ftp account (knowing his account name). Yes this sort of thing happens more then you may think, and some people are very sensitive of that, not a thing you want in a friendly game environment.Player B blocks Player A after getting harassment. All subsequent accounts used for harassment are also added to the block list.

[Omcrazy.4756]

Downvote and Upvote definitely preferred.

It is fake internet points. Literally has no bearing on your life. The only benefit a voting feature brings is to show whether other reads agrees or disagrees with your comment or otherwise approves or disapproves of your comment. If someone takes a stance i disagree with but has a comment with valid points, I will likely upvote them. If they have an opinion I believe to be wrong, especially if they state something as a fact, I will downvote them to show I disagree.

I really like the comments about how people getting downvotes think its one person who then calls his friends to come downvote them too. Lol, really? That's the most likely scenario? No, much more likely you just got downvoted because a number of people disagreed with you and wanted to express that disagreement without writing the same post over and over and over again.

[ayeniss.8190]

BTW I prefer the LoL forum much (I'm not a reddit person I do not know how it works, sorry), where you can up and downvote a whole discussion so the "important" ones are in your face when you go up.Of course this would burry some things what would be important in other aspect or some of the post would be gone and people would give up the while thing to even post, but anyone have any idea to be able to express negative feeling toward a post or thread but do not make it feel toxic or negative?

I mean anyone here have any option or suggestion to make it better or solve the problem? - like to have option to dislike something and in the same time do not make it toxic?

I'm really curious because I like to feel the freedom of expression (hah, free speech) - not with verbal harrasments, I read everything, every opinion, any idea, anything what comes normally, and not full of stars *** - but I know it well that people like to bully other because why not. This case can be even solved?

I even thought about post tipe optins, like when you write a comment into a thread, you could shoose that it's= an "opinion" == this one can be flagged as Liked or Disliked, because this one isn't up for discussion, the write do not care to talk about it more, just want to say how he feels / thinks about the topic and opinions could be showed or hide, depending on the reader so if you are interested, you read it, if you are not, you hide it= a "discussion" == this can be flagged as "helpful" and always shown in the thread, this means that you are willing to come back and write more about it, you are open to talk and think or maybe rethink what you wrote - these are good for suggestions, for builds or helping others with tactics and so on

This would be my thoughts about this, what do you guys think?Do you think this would be good?I really wanna solve this problem or find a solution for this.

[choovanski.5462]

just now, I was making out w my girlfriend and I nearly got some of her eye glitter in my eye. that would have been far more harmful than any possible amount of downvotes

so, keep your priorities on the real people. it's just an indication that somone disagrees w you. that is not something that should ruin your day

be cool like @Chickenooble.5014 and use some got dang determination. march on little soldiers, you'll live

I can say on the real, as someone who's trained people and done performance evaluations irl. you are going to need to be able to handle disagreement. it is not becoming to cling to your own point of view and to 'shout murder' whenever someone disagrees

[IndigoSundown.5419]

After reflection, I've withdrawn my initial objection to Thumbs Down. Thumbs can be convenience features for those who want to say yea or nay to what's being expressed. Used in this fashion, they can lower post count, possibly eliminating, "This!" posts or posts where someone says, "I agree with X.4536 that this is bad." Such posts are just votes, which is what Up/Down is.

People build weight for their ideas by convincing others. This is sometimes called "building agreement." In some situations, rational thought plays a large role in building agreement. In other situations, it doesn't. The only thing about thumbs down, or thumbs up for that matter, that I find lacking is that it's all too easy to simply chime in one way or another. When people have to articulate what they think, feel or want, they are more likely to think about it. I often find myself changing my mind in the middle of composing a post, because I had to think things through. That's not to say that everyone will do so, just that it is possible.

That said, I have no right to tell people they must think things through before expressing an opinion. I can only say that I believe thinking is better than just reacting. Finally, not every thread, or every post, needs to be treated as if we are discussing philosophy. Perhaps its fine for those who want to build agreement to try to build a rational argument.

Will thumbs down be abused? Of course it will. Any online system that can be abused, will be. Will it be used to try to build agreement that an idea is bad? Yep. Both freedom and convenience come with consequences. That does not mean they are not worth having.

[Einlanzer.1627]

https://boingboing.net/2014/09/15/downvoting-considered-harmful.html

Does anyone have any studies that show downvoting does anything good for online communities?

It's not a question of "being tough"; it's a question how human psychology works.

[Baltham.8796]

Just using the OP as an example, as I write this it is sitting at 24 up/20 down. Seems to be a fairly even split. If you just remove the downvotes and only see the 24 up, it now looks like massive agreement. If you remove one, you have to remove the other or it makes no sense.

For the record, I personally don't care one way or the other about the existence of voting. It's just fake internet points.

[Ashen.2907]

@Einlanzer.1627 said:

@Ashen.2907 said:I am not sure that disallowing people to express disagreement with a post is a good idea.

Whats next, all posts must agree with every suggestion or idea or be deleted?

Nobody is suggesting disallowing people to express disagreement. That's an absurd hyperbole.

What you'll notice in all of these threads is the same behavior. The original poster gets more thumbs up than thumbs downs, because more people than not (rightly) think thumbs down is a bad idea. But, most people who agree with the OP stop there and don't continue reading through the thread. It's disproportionately people who disagree who stay engaged in the thread, so the thumb up/thumb down ratio flipflops for subsequent posts in the thread.

This right here shows how Thumbs down is a bad idea. It's not actually an accurate gauge of whether an idea is good or bad. It's more of a gauge of how strong the groupthink is on a particular topic, and the more thumbs down people see, the more biased they become against the message, and vice versa. It actually just ends up brainwashing people. That this is how human psychology works has been demonstrated time after time in real world social experiments.

The OP, and others in the thread, have expressed a desire for removing a means of expressing disagreement with a suggestion, idea, or other post. Call it hyperbole if you like but it is already being requested.

I have not seen anything to indicate that thumbs up or down exists as a measure of whether or not something is somehow objectively a good idea or bad. They are efficient means of expressing agreement or disagreement with a post.

[Loosifah.4738]

IMO they should add badges for getting downvoted too. Would be a funny badge to have.

[Chickenooble.5014]

@Loosifah.4738 said:IMO they should add badges for getting downvoted too. Would be a funny badge to have.

I received a forum warning on the first day in an attempt to see how high my thumbs-down rating could go. Moderators were quick to jump on me and shut that down. :P I don't think they like it being a game.

[Chickenooble.5014]

@Einlanzer.1627 said:https://boingboing.net/2014/09/15/downvoting-considered-harmful.html

Does anyone have any studies that show downvoting does anything good for online communities?

It's not a question of "being tough"; it's a question how human psychology works.

That study is irrelevant. Down-voting on this forum doesn't "punish" anyone. It provides a Like/Dislike feature so people can see how the community views an opinion. I could make a counter-argument and say that having a Thumbs Up/Thumbs Down mechanism is a form of criticism. Criticism helps individuals grow because it forces them to re-evaluate and refine a post, paper, argument or method of performance. If I see a thumbs down I can take it as, "maybe I shouldn't troll around here" or "perhaps my argument wasn't presented clearly enough." I could then find ways to repackage my message and redeliver it to see if it has a different response.

And to support what I just said I'm sure I could find some academic journal that suggests criticism helps individuals grow.

[Gaile Gray.6029]

Hey guys,

As I have said in the two others threads on this subject, I am looking at the reaction system as a whole, and it's extremely likely you will see changes in the future.

In the meantime, another thread on the same topic isn't needed, with all due respect. And feedback can best be shared in the actual new forum feedback thread, which I moved to this GW2 Discussion Subforum for your convenience.

Thanks!