Discussion about Confusion [merged]

[b k.1648]

@plushiesoda.8150 said:

@"Ben K.6238" said:Actually quite happy to see confusion back to doing what it should have done all along. Since widespread torment application is available now (the condition didn't exist at launch) there's no sense in having a condition which is yet another barely-different flavour of DoT.

so it's ok to break a weapon that was made around it because you don't like another shiny dot? Then again, most complains don't come from a spvp perspective, but from a pve one, basically you're saying that you're cool with them boosting staff, but breaking axe, for a change whose existence has no meaning in PVE in the first place?or can you honestly say that mirage needed a PVE nerf?

well maybe your line of thought would be somewhat different had you invested some gold in clone/axe? personally I invested almost 3000g on it, of course that's not your money, you don't know me and probably never will, so you might continue being quite happy to see confusion back to doing "what it should have done all along" who cares about the people that loved axe, yay!!! :D

It's not about nerfing a build like what happened to burning ones a couple of months ago. It's about plainly breaking it.

I've spent far more than you on legendaries that I don't use anymore. The problem with PvE is that confusion doesn't really have much place in it; the PvE game is designed in a totally different way. However, rather than just having Torment v2 with a different trigger bonus, I'd much rather see confusion's trigger damage multiplied by a lot more in PvE. We really don't need 5 conditions that all mean the same thing; each condition should ideally be suited to a purpose.

Confusion is about anticipating what your target is about to do, and punishing them for it. It needs to be stronger than a slap on the wrist with a wet bus ticket in PvE, so that timing it well is rewarding. And so that it's a sensible thing to use when you're faced with something that attacks fast, because it'll get ripped to pieces.

It hasn't been implemented correctly in PvE yet but this change is a step in the right direction. Fingers crossed it gets followed up quickly. Until then, I have plenty of other classes to play.

[Dozzer.1750]

View from a 5 year mesmer main. It seems like there is general agreement that the confusion changes makes a lot of sense in PvP and WvW and I concur. Also credit to you on the phatasm and alacrity changes, they mix things up a bit and on seeing them in game I am actually quite intrigued by the fun game play changes they make. But the PvE confusion thing is immensly disappointing. The core issue is that in the world of conditions Mesmer is basically the confusion & torment class (understandably as they best fits our theme). After years of power based builds it was nice to mix it up and finally have a Condi viable option in PoF in Mirage. If it had been designed with a good mix of condi options I doubt there would be so much frustration on this board, but it's not. With both main conditions once again requiring your opponent to do something to drive dps, we have to sit and wait in PvE. When we get bored of all the waiting, we think of other condi options, scepter .... nope same wait conditions.... OK let's go staff then... Oh yes that means crossing our fingers that the condition RNG gods smile on us and do not actually add those wait conditions once again.... (big sigh) back to sword I suppose. Considering that the thing that makes me smile with Mirage is the jumping around and the "joy of movement" it creates, it just seems odd to increase our reliance again on your PvE NPC opponent doing something to make all that movement fully worthwhile. So options.... 1. Split the implemetation in PvE only (quite popular it seems) 2. Swap out the confusion for other conditions (honestly anything would do, although PVPs may not like that) 3. State clearly that Mesmer is designed as a power class in PvE so we can all reset our expectations accordingly and stop trying to force our Mesmer into a condition shaped hole. 4. Actually if you don't want to change all this confusion up, how about a rebuild on staff to remove the RNG (stating the obvious no doubling down on torment and confusion please although it would be quite funny I suppose) and make it feel less slow, it feels like you are stirring treacle sometimes (last one is a bit left field I know)

[Astralporing.1957]

@Ben K.6238 said:I've spent far more than you on legendaries that I don't use anymore. The problem with PvE is that confusion doesn't really have much place in it; the PvE game is designed in a totally different way. However, rather than just having Torment v2 with a different trigger bonus, I'd much rather see confusion's trigger damage multiplied by a lot more in PvE. We really don't need 5 conditions that all mean the same thing; each condition should ideally be suited to a purpose.

Confusion is about anticipating what your target is about to do, and punishing them for it. It needs to be stronger than a slap on the wrist with a wet bus ticket in PvE, so that timing it well is rewarding. And so that it's a sensible thing to use when you're faced with something that attacks fast, because it'll get ripped to pieces.That doesn't work unless you actually have some choices. And confusion is just way too closely tied to mesmer builds. Yes, you can try to make condi builds based around other conditions, but that will always end up being suboptimal. And you'd better pray to Abaddon that Torment won't get similar treatment.Also, good luck anticipating what Mursaat Overseer will do and using confusion to punish him for it.

[Swoll.1483]

If the benchmarks for raid on a condition based Mirage in PvE were too high then maybe the the duration/damage of confusion should have been brought down a bit, but the damage being moved to skill activation, which has an obvious interaction with a PvP environment, has very limited interaction in PvE. Why was this change made for PvE where the high stacks and damage are fine provided the overall damage is within your vision for a benchmark? This resulted in the overall damage not being brought down a bit but a considerable amount. Is the condition scaling with condition damage? Why was this change made to PvE?

I have to believe that every single point being made in this thread has already been considered by developers, unlike what a lot of people think I believe they know exactly what they're doing (especially in situations like this where the consequences are very obvious). Since it makes no sense, it might be construed an attempt in some way to force people to re-gear to drive gem sales...? Illogical changes don't drive most people to invest in the company, same with deceptive marketing promotions run directly before drastic item changes (BLC).

[dontlook.1823]

@Swoll.1483 said:If the benchmarks for raid on a condition based Mirage in PvE were too high then maybe the the duration/damage of confusion should have been brought down a bit, but the damage being moved to skill activation, which has an obvious interaction with a PvP environment, has very limited interaction in PvE. Why was this change made for PvE where the high stacks and damage are fine provided the overall damage is within your vision for a benchmark? This resulted in the overall damage not being brought down a bit but a considerable amount. Is the condition scaling with condition damage? Why was this change made to PvE?

I have to believe that every single point being made in this thread has already been considered by developers, unlike what a lot of people think I believe they know exactly what they're doing (especially in situations like this where the consequences are very obvious). Since it makes no sense, it might be construed an attempt in some way to force people to re-gear to drive gem sales...? Illogical changes don't drive most people to invest in the company, same with deceptive marketing promotions run directly before drastic item changes (BLC).

I don't think it's fair to say their benchmark was too high. The Mirage clone build was actually quite balanced IMO. 35k When Min/Max is nothing compared to the numbers ElEs pull off. Just last night I was in Demios with an ele that sat at 55k for the beginning part of Demios and only dropped down to 34.5k when he phased. Yet they recieved nothing but buffs... Not to mention DH and Holo have much more of a reliable burst when it comes to most bosses as Mirage took some time to ramp up. Mirage was just viable. But mostly situational.

Not quite sure why this build got the boot. Unless they are thinking of something similar or stronger since this build fell into that summon clones and spam auto category. I was really looking forward to this build and its interactions with phats.. I will have to wait.. :-1:

[dontlook.1823]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Ben K.6238 said:I've spent far more than you on legendaries that I don't use anymore. The problem with PvE is that confusion doesn't really have much place in it; the PvE game is designed in a totally different way. However, rather than just having Torment v2 with a different trigger bonus, I'd much rather see confusion's trigger damage multiplied by a lot more in PvE. We really don't need 5 conditions that all mean the same thing; each condition should ideally be suited to a purpose.

Confusion is about anticipating what your target is about to do, and punishing them for it. It needs to be stronger than a slap on the wrist with a wet bus ticket in PvE, so that timing it well is rewarding. And so that it's a sensible thing to use when you're faced with something that attacks fast, because it'll get ripped to pieces.That doesn't work unless you actually

have

some choices. And confusion is just way too closely tied to mesmer builds. Yes, you can try to make condi builds based around other conditions, but that will always end up being suboptimal. And you'd better pray to Abaddon that Torment won't get similar treatment.Also, good luck anticipating what Mursaat Overseer will do and using confusion to punish him for it.

Last night.. Had a Mirage that didn't read the patch notes. I was doing 28k on Power Chrono and he was doing 14.4k on Condi Clone Mirage in MO. The guy was going bonkers.

[Swoll.1483]

@dontlook.1823 said:

@Swoll.1483 said:If the benchmarks for raid on a condition based Mirage in PvE were too high then maybe the the duration/damage of confusion should have been brought down a bit, but the damage being moved to skill activation, which has an obvious interaction with a PvP environment, has very limited interaction in PvE. Why was this change made for PvE where the high stacks and damage are fine provided the overall damage is within your vision for a benchmark? This resulted in the overall damage not being brought down a bit but a considerable amount. Is the condition scaling with condition damage? Why was this change made to PvE?

I have to believe that every single point being made in this thread has already been considered by developers, unlike what a lot of people think I believe they know exactly what they're doing (especially in situations like this where the consequences are very obvious). Since it makes no sense, it might be construed an attempt in some way to force people to re-gear to drive gem sales...? Illogical changes don't drive most people to invest in the company, same with deceptive marketing promotions run directly before drastic item changes (BLC).

I don't think it's fair to say their benchmark was too high. The Mirage clone build was actually quite balanced IMO. 35k When Min/Max is nothing compared to the numbers ElEs pull off. Just last night I was in Demios with an ele that sat at 55k for the beginning part of Demios and only dropped down to 34.5k when he phased. Yet they recieved nothing but buffs... Not to mention DH and Holo have much more of a reliable burst when it comes to most bosses as Mirage took some time to ramp up. Mirage was just viable. But mostly situational.

Not quite sure why this build got the boot. Unless they are thinking of something similar or stronger since this build fell into that summon clones and spam auto category. I was really looking forward to this build and its interactions with phats.. I will have to wait.. :-1:

I wasn't saying that they were too high, just stating that if the developers thought so and wanted to adjust confusion to be a lower damaging condition to bring the benchmark 'in line' that's one thing; but to apply this change to PvE with the obvious consequences of almost nullifying the damage contribution from the condition completely is another entirely and illogical for that environment.

[dontlook.1823]

@Swoll.1483 said:

@dontlook.1823 said:

@Swoll.1483 said:If the benchmarks for raid on a condition based Mirage in PvE were too high then maybe the the duration/damage of confusion should have been brought down a bit, but the damage being moved to skill activation, which has an obvious interaction with a PvP environment, has very limited interaction in PvE. Why was this change made for PvE where the high stacks and damage are fine provided the overall damage is within your vision for a benchmark? This resulted in the overall damage not being brought down a bit but a considerable amount. Is the condition scaling with condition damage? Why was this change made to PvE?

I have to believe that every single point being made in this thread has already been considered by developers, unlike what a lot of people think I believe they know exactly what they're doing (especially in situations like this where the consequences are very obvious). Since it makes no sense, it might be construed an attempt in some way to force people to re-gear to drive gem sales...? Illogical changes don't drive most people to invest in the company, same with deceptive marketing promotions run directly before drastic item changes (BLC).

I don't think it's fair to say their benchmark was too high. The Mirage clone build was actually quite balanced IMO. 35k When Min/Max is nothing compared to the numbers ElEs pull off. Just last night I was in Demios with an ele that sat at 55k for the beginning part of Demios and only dropped down to 34.5k when he phased. Yet they recieved nothing but buffs... Not to mention DH and Holo have much more of a reliable burst when it comes to most bosses as Mirage took some time to ramp up. Mirage was just viable. But mostly situational.

Not quite sure why this build got the boot. Unless they are thinking of something similar or stronger since this build fell into that summon clones and spam auto category. I was really looking forward to this build and its interactions with phats.. I will have to wait.. :-1:

I wasn't saying that they were too high, just stating that if the developers thought so and wanted to adjust confusion to be a lower damaging condition to bring the benchmark 'in line' that's one thing; but to apply this change to PvE with the obvious consequences of almost nullifying the damage contribution from the condition completely is another entirely and illogical for that environment.

I'm aware that you yourself didn't think it was high. I was just making it clear that it isn't high at all. So even for an Anet Dev to think this they must not look at numbers and/or understand them that well. Especially since most of the other top tier builds are front-loaded DPS with Mesmer back-loaded and with a ramp up.

[BrokenGlass.9356]

@Swoll.1483 said:If the benchmarks for raid on a condition based Mirage in PvE were too high then maybe the the duration/damage of confusion should have been brought down a bit, but the damage being moved to skill activation, which has an obvious interaction with a PvP environment, has very limited interaction in PvE. Why was this change made for PvE where the high stacks and damage are fine provided the overall damage is within your vision for a benchmark? This resulted in the overall damage not being brought down a bit but a considerable amount. Is the condition scaling with condition damage? Why was this change made to PvE?

I have to believe that every single point being made in this thread has already been considered by developers, unlike what a lot of people think I believe they know exactly what they're doing (especially in situations like this where the consequences are very obvious). Since it makes no sense, it might be construed an attempt in some way to force people to re-gear to drive gem sales...? Illogical changes don't drive most people to invest in the company, same with deceptive marketing promotions run directly before drastic item changes (BLC).

if this is an attempt to drive gem sales the that is a villainy of the highest order. First, get all the mesmer excited for changes. Then, ignore multiple requests for an early reveal on what confusion does. Then, a poorly worded paragraph that suggests a non-existent pve/pvp split. Then, silence from the development staff despite multiple tags to directly get thier attention ( @Robert Gee.9246 @"Gaile Gray.6029" ) even in the face of overwhelming outcry.

Dude... Half of reddit is declaring this a bug.

If it is a bug, maybe make a statement like

"we bugged the split between PvE and PvP on confusion, we're trying to fix it now, but as the code handling confusion is from launch, it's proving to be a tangled coding nightmare. We will have a fix coming as fast as we can."

If it's intended, maybe a statement like this

"we understand that the community is upset about the changes to the confusion condition, so we'd like to share our thinking with you, so you all can understand why it was changed....(explanation here) Also, we are buffing staff, and swapping the confusion on scepter to bleeding, and increasing its power damage coefficients."

[b k.1648]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@"Ben K.6238" said:I've spent far more than you on legendaries that I don't use anymore. The problem with PvE is that confusion doesn't really have much place in it; the PvE game is designed in a totally different way. However, rather than just having Torment v2 with a different trigger bonus, I'd much rather see confusion's trigger damage multiplied by a lot more in PvE. We really don't need 5 conditions that all mean the same thing; each condition should ideally be suited to a purpose.

Confusion is about anticipating what your target is about to do, and punishing them for it. It needs to be stronger than a slap on the wrist with a wet bus ticket in PvE, so that timing it well is rewarding. And so that it's a sensible thing to use when you're faced with something that attacks fast, because it'll get ripped to pieces.That doesn't work unless you actually

have

some choices. And confusion is just way too closely tied to mesmer builds. Yes, you can try to make condi builds based around other conditions, but that will always end up being suboptimal. And you'd better pray to Abaddon that Torment won't get similar treatment.Also, good luck anticipating what Mursaat Overseer will do and using confusion to punish him for it.

Actually, that's another thing I preferred about GW1. If you were going to fight something that didn't cast spells, you didn't take Backfire, because that would be stupid. GW2's solution has usually been something like "well you can't take Backfire off your bar, so let's just make it trigger all the time even when nothing happens".

[dontlook.1823]

@Ben K.6238 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Ben K.6238 said:I've spent far more than you on legendaries that I don't use anymore. The problem with PvE is that confusion doesn't really have much place in it; the PvE game is designed in a totally different way. However, rather than just having Torment v2 with a different trigger bonus, I'd much rather see confusion's trigger damage multiplied by a lot more in PvE. We really don't need 5 conditions that all mean the same thing; each condition should ideally be suited to a purpose.

Confusion is about anticipating what your target is about to do, and punishing them for it. It needs to be stronger than a slap on the wrist with a wet bus ticket in PvE, so that timing it well is rewarding. And so that it's a sensible thing to use when you're faced with something that attacks fast, because it'll get ripped to pieces.That doesn't work unless you actually

have

some choices. And confusion is just way too closely tied to mesmer builds. Yes, you can try to make condi builds based around other conditions, but that will always end up being suboptimal. And you'd better pray to Abaddon that Torment won't get similar treatment.Also, good luck anticipating what Mursaat Overseer will do and using confusion to punish him for it.

Actually, that's another thing I preferred about GW1. If you were going to fight something that didn't cast spells, you didn't take Backfire, because that would be stupid.

I like the concept behind this. But if its going to be this way, then the situational damage has to be called for. Cause as of now Mirage isn't even viable for Carin/Matt

[AliamRationem.5172]

@Ben K.6238 said:

@plushiesoda.8150 said:

@Ben K.6238 said:Actually quite happy to see confusion back to doing what it should have done all along. Since widespread torment application is available now (the condition didn't exist at launch) there's no sense in having a condition which is yet another barely-different flavour of DoT.

so it's ok to break a weapon that was made around it because you don't like another shiny dot? Then again, most complains don't come from a spvp perspective, but from a pve one, basically you're saying that you're cool with them boosting staff, but breaking axe, for a change whose existence has no meaning in PVE in the first place?or can you honestly say that mirage needed a PVE nerf?

well maybe your line of thought would be somewhat different had you invested some gold in clone/axe? personally I invested almost 3000g on it, of course that's not your money, you don't know me and probably never will, so you might continue being quite happy to see confusion back to doing "what it should have done all along" who cares about the people that loved axe, yay!!! :D

It's not about nerfing a build like what happened to burning ones a couple of months ago. It's about plainly breaking it.

I've spent far more than you on legendaries that I don't use anymore. The problem with PvE is that confusion doesn't really have much place in it; the PvE game is designed in a totally different way. However, rather than just having Torment v2 with a different trigger bonus, I'd much rather see confusion's trigger damage multiplied by a lot more in PvE. We really don't need 5 conditions that all mean the same thing; each condition should ideally be suited to a purpose.

Confusion is about anticipating what your target is about to do, and punishing them for it. It needs to be stronger than a slap on the wrist with a wet bus ticket in PvE, so that timing it well is rewarding. And so that it's a sensible thing to use when you're faced with something that attacks fast, because it'll get ripped to pieces.

It hasn't been implemented correctly in PvE yet but this change is a step in the right direction. Fingers crossed it gets followed up quickly. Until then, I have plenty of other classes to play.

It is impossible for confusion to work as you describe because its power is determined by the number of stacks you maintain. There is no way to anticipate moves far enough in advance so as to make any sort of meaningful choice with regard to confusion stacking. It's not like you make a big play by holding off on a single attack for 1/4s so you can add 2 stacks of confusion just as the enemy uses a skill!

Confusion is also completely ineffective at its primary function: control. It's supposed to force enemies to alter their behavior. Unfortunately, in PvE the AI doesn't change its behavior in ways we can meaningfully manipulate via confusion. This makes confusion in its current state nothing more than an extremely weak DoT.

[Jah Warrior.9682]

Still waiting for Anets response...

[Trae.2384]

Im as angry as most others about this but the idea that this was done to simulate gem sales is silly. If they needed a bump in gem sales they could easily just throw a ton of bomb skins and items up and have a sale. These are all digital intangible items its not like that would cost anything and that would make tons more cash off gems than the very few pissed off mesmers that would need to buy gold to regear. This might have just been a significant oversight, a bug, or just laziness in not splitting it better.

[Bofouci.1320]

It's been long enough since the patch release that at least a little damage control on their behalf is warranted. A PR acknowledgement of some sort is in order. Continued radio silence will only lead to voices getting louder and then silence as players move on to other interests. Until something happens to remedy this whole thing or at least a plan is announced to the community I may as well be considered F2P cause I'm not buying anything.

[Zania.8461]

3 options for ANet:

Split confusion mechanic between PvE and WvW/PvP - I am not sure this is feasible, as so far the skill split did not change underlying mechanic of the abilitiesSplit all abilities that inflict confusion and make them apply torment (or bleeding?) in PvE - this is likely possible, but would involve a lot of splitsLeave everything as is and keep condi Mirage dead - least amount of work, and if you wait long enough, problem will go away on its own, right?

[dontlook.1823]

Gonna lighten the mood with this video.

Beginning: Downloaded patch. Making my way to the Kitty Cat Golem with my Mirage. So ready for this Phat stuff to add a bit of extra flavor.

End: Reality.

[Walhalla.5473]

I still don't get it. A few months ago Anet made Confusion useful in PvE and now they did a complete 180 and killed the ticking damage. Its very close to its vanilla form, basically useless.

Karl said that they were pretty excited about the Confusion changes and I have a question for Anet. Why should the PvE player be excited about this change. How does PvE benefit from this change?

[Astralporing.1957]

@Walhalla.5473 said:I still don't get it. A few months ago Anet made Confusion useful in PvE and now they did a complete 180 and killed the ticking damage. Its very close to its vanilla form, basically useless.

Karl said that they were pretty excited about the Confusion changes and I have a question for Anet. Why should the PvE player be excited about this change. How does PvE benefit from this change?Well, if you think about it, Karl said they were excited about this change. Not that the players would be.

[Walhalla.5473]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Walhalla.5473 said:I still don't get it. A few months ago Anet made Confusion useful in PvE and now they did a complete 180 and killed the ticking damage. Its very close to its vanilla form, basically useless.

Karl said that they were pretty excited about the Confusion changes and I have a question for Anet. Why should the PvE player be excited about this change. How does PvE benefit from this change?Well, if you think about it, Karl said

they

were excited about this change. Not that the

players

would be.

Well normally when Devs are excited about a change players also should have a reason to be excited. But good point.

[BrokenGlass.9356]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Walhalla.5473 said:I still don't get it. A few months ago Anet made Confusion useful in PvE and now they did a complete 180 and killed the ticking damage. Its very close to its vanilla form, basically useless.

Karl said that they were pretty excited about the Confusion changes and I have a question for Anet. Why should the PvE player be excited about this change. How does PvE benefit from this change?Well, if you think about it, Karl said

they

were excited about this change. Not that the

players

would be.

if A-net intends to force the player's hand with these changes, then im quite upset. just tested the staff build. and truly, on golem it hits 34k... in spikes. i averaged 23k.

if these changes were intended to bring all dps into the 25k range.... then... say that, and nerf weaver, dragonhunter, condi dd, the new power mes build, condi rev, ect....

but, the continued silence from devs like @Robert Gee.9246 is disturbing. one can only hope they are all franticly coding a fix and have no time to reply beacue theyre trying to get the patch out today. but im not holding my breath.

[Bloodstealer.5978]

@BrokenGlass.9356 said:

@Swoll.1483 said:If the benchmarks for raid on a condition based Mirage in PvE were too high then maybe the the duration/damage of confusion should have been brought down a bit, but the damage being moved to skill activation, which has an obvious interaction with a PvP environment, has very limited interaction in PvE. Why was this change made for PvE where the high stacks and damage are fine provided the overall damage is within your vision for a benchmark? This resulted in the overall damage not being brought down a bit but a considerable amount. Is the condition scaling with condition damage? Why was this change made to PvE?

I have to believe that every single point being made in this thread has already been considered by developers, unlike what a lot of people think I believe they know exactly what they're doing (especially in situations like this where the consequences are very obvious). Since it makes no sense, it might be construed an attempt in some way to force people to re-gear to drive gem sales...? Illogical changes don't drive most people to invest in the company, same with deceptive marketing promotions run directly before drastic item changes (BLC).

if this is an attempt to drive gem sales

the that is a villainy of the highest order. First, get all the mesmer excited for changes. Then, ignore multiple requests for an early reveal on what confusion does. Then, a poorly worded paragraph that suggests a non-existent pve/pvp split. Then, silence from the development staff despite multiple tags to directly get thier attention ( @Robert Gee.9246 @"Gaile Gray.6029" ) even in the face of

overwhelming

outcry.

Dude... Half of reddit is declaring this a bug.

If it

is

a bug, maybe make a statement like

"we bugged the split between PvE and PvP on confusion, we're trying to fix it now, but as the code handling confusion is from launch, it's proving to be a tangled coding nightmare. We will have a fix coming as fast as we can."

If it's intended, maybe a statement like this

"we understand that the community is upset about the changes to the confusion condition, so we'd like to share our thinking with you, so you all can understand

why

it was changed....(explanation here) Also, we are buffing staff, and swapping the confusion on scepter to bleeding, and increasing its power damage coefficients."

Pretty sure if this wasn't an intended effect of the PvP split someone would of owned up already.So no I am of the mind this was fully intended and they couldn't care less how many players it annoys along the way, hoping it will disappear under the rug as normal.

I would love to be wrong but .. that bad smell is lingering again.

[Bofouci.1320]

@Bloodstealer.5978 said:

@BrokenGlass.9356 said:

@Swoll.1483 said:If the benchmarks for raid on a condition based Mirage in PvE were too high then maybe the the duration/damage of confusion should have been brought down a bit, but the damage being moved to skill activation, which has an obvious interaction with a PvP environment, has very limited interaction in PvE. Why was this change made for PvE where the high stacks and damage are fine provided the overall damage is within your vision for a benchmark? This resulted in the overall damage not being brought down a bit but a considerable amount. Is the condition scaling with condition damage? Why was this change made to PvE?

I have to believe that every single point being made in this thread has already been considered by developers, unlike what a lot of people think I believe they know exactly what they're doing (especially in situations like this where the consequences are very obvious). Since it makes no sense, it might be construed an attempt in some way to force people to re-gear to drive gem sales...? Illogical changes don't drive most people to invest in the company, same with deceptive marketing promotions run directly before drastic item changes (BLC).

if this is an attempt to drive gem sales

the that is a villainy of the highest order. First, get all the mesmer excited for changes. Then, ignore multiple requests for an early reveal on what confusion does. Then, a poorly worded paragraph that suggests a non-existent pve/pvp split. Then, silence from the development staff despite multiple tags to directly get thier attention ( @Robert Gee.9246 @"Gaile Gray.6029" ) even in the face of

overwhelming

outcry.

Dude... Half of reddit is declaring this a bug.

If it

is

a bug, maybe make a statement like

"we bugged the split between PvE and PvP on confusion, we're trying to fix it now, but as the code handling confusion is from launch, it's proving to be a tangled coding nightmare. We will have a fix coming as fast as we can."

If it's intended, maybe a statement like this

"we understand that the community is upset about the changes to the confusion condition, so we'd like to share our thinking with you, so you all can understand

why

it was changed....(explanation here) Also, we are buffing staff, and swapping the confusion on scepter to bleeding, and increasing its power damage coefficients."

Pretty sure if this wasn't an intended effect of the PvP split someone would of owned up already.So no I am of the mind this was fully intended and they couldn't care less how many players it annoys along the way, hoping it will disappear under the rug as normal.

I would love to be wrong but .. that bad smell is lingering again.

If this was an intended effect i'll be performing an uninstall upon confirmation. My money is a drop in the bucket but i'll feel better not feeding into this,

[Bloodstealer.5978]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@"Walhalla.5473" said:I still don't get it. A few months ago Anet made Confusion useful in PvE and now they did a complete 180 and killed the ticking damage. Its very close to its vanilla form, basically useless.

Karl said that they were pretty excited about the Confusion changes and I have a question for Anet. Why should the PvE player be excited about this change. How does PvE benefit from this change?Well, if you think about it, Karl said

they

were excited about this change. Not that the

players

would be.

Maybe they had some "confusion" between excitement and .. nervous tension!

[Walhalla.5473]

@Bloodstealer.5978 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@"Walhalla.5473" said:I still don't get it. A few months ago Anet made Confusion useful in PvE and now they did a complete 180 and killed the ticking damage. Its very close to its vanilla form, basically useless.

Karl said that they were pretty excited about the Confusion changes and I have a question for Anet. Why should the PvE player be excited about this change. How does PvE benefit from this change?Well, if you think about it, Karl said

they

were excited about this change. Not that the

players

would be.

Maybe they had some "confusion" between excitement and .. nervous tension!

This.... is..... GENIUS.

Ok to be more seriously. Like BrokenGlass, I would like to hear a statement from Anet. This was a massive change that wasn't really thought out if it was intended, while the other changes are more or less pretty good.