Discussion about Confusion [merged]

[Conncept.7638]

@Gaile Gray.6029 said:Several people have questions or input on Confusion.

No several people do not have questions, everyone has the two same questions.

Is this change what it sounds like, the removal of the only component of confusion that makes it worthwhile in most PvE?

And once they confirm that the answer to that question is yes, that's exactly what it is, anyone that's principle play mode is PvE must ask:

How on earth could the devs make such a monumentally poor decision as this?

I guess that's not true, personally I'm asking at this point if the devs have even a sliver of a shadow of concern left for any PvE player outside raids.

[I Heal Ur Wounds.8165]

The change is good, well done. Mesmer was way too much strong(both in pvp and pve) compared to other classes, indeed was in need of a fix.

[OriOri.8724]

People need to calm down.

I do not like the change to confusion in PvE. That said, mesmer DPS was not affected by it, you just have to change your build and rotation. Go to the mesmer forum. People have benchmarked power mesmer hitting 32k after this patch, and staff condi mirage has a SS of hitting 34k dps. This did not ruin mesmer's DPS, but it does make confusion suck in PvE and I don't agree with nerfing it so harshly

[Bloodgruve.6038]

This nerf should not have hit PvE. I understand the nerf in PvP and WvW.

[Trakarg.2095]

@OriOri.8724 said:People need to calm down.

I do not like the change to confusion in PvE. That said, mesmer DPS was not affected by it, you just have to change your build and rotation. Go to the mesmer forum. People have benchmarked power mesmer hitting 32k after this patch, and staff condi mirage has a SS of hitting 34k dps. This did not ruin mesmer's DPS, but it does make confusion suck in PvE and I don't agree with nerfing it so harshly

Great, I have to use weapons I don't like to still do well? I want to play an AXE mesmer. I enjoy AXE. I wanted to make Astralaria. I don't care if other builds are still good.

[OriOri.8724]

@Trakarg.2095 said:

@OriOri.8724 said:People need to calm down.

I do not like the change to confusion in PvE. That said, mesmer DPS was not affected by it, you just have to change your build and rotation. Go to the mesmer forum. People have benchmarked power mesmer hitting 32k after this patch, and staff condi mirage has a SS of hitting 34k dps. This did not ruin mesmer's DPS, but it does make confusion suck in PvE and I don't agree with nerfing it so harshly

Great, I have to use weapons I don't like to still do well? I want to play an AXE mesmer. I enjoy AXE. I wanted to make Astralaria.

I don't care

if other builds are still good.

Believe it or not, there will always be someone who doesn't like the weapons on the meta builds for any class. That doesn't mean there is a problem with that class.

[BrokenGlass.9356]

@OriOri.8724 said:People need to calm down.

I do not like the change to confusion in PvE. That said, mesmer DPS was not affected by it, you just have to change your build and rotation. Go to the mesmer forum. People have benchmarked power mesmer hitting 32k after this patch, and staff condi mirage has a SS of hitting 34k dps. This did not ruin mesmer's DPS, but it does make confusion suck in PvE and I don't agree with nerfing it so harshly

I'm definitely keen to check out this staff build....

but i loved the axe build.

so... was it A-net's intention to make axe a PvP only weapon? is that why they never fixed axe 3's ability to kill you while fighting Vale Guardian? a subtle hint to use diffrent weapons?

also.... wont the staff build do less dps in group, because the projectiles will bounce to allies and only apply boons? (that everyone else is already supplying)

[Corax.7381]

@Trakarg.2095 said:

@OriOri.8724 said:People need to calm down.

I do not like the change to confusion in PvE. That said, mesmer DPS was not affected by it, you just have to change your build and rotation. Go to the mesmer forum. People have benchmarked power mesmer hitting 32k after this patch, and staff condi mirage has a SS of hitting 34k dps. This did not ruin mesmer's DPS, but it does make confusion suck in PvE and I don't agree with nerfing it so harshly

Great, I have to use weapons I don't like to still do well? I want to play an AXE mesmer. I enjoy AXE. I wanted to make Astralaria.

I don't care

if other builds are still good.

How much DPS do you have to do to enjoy Axe?

[BrokenGlass.9356]

@Corax.7381 said:

@Trakarg.2095 said:

@OriOri.8724 said:People need to calm down.

I do not like the change to confusion in PvE. That said, mesmer DPS was not affected by it, you just have to change your build and rotation. Go to the mesmer forum. People have benchmarked power mesmer hitting 32k after this patch, and staff condi mirage has a SS of hitting 34k dps. This did not ruin mesmer's DPS, but it does make confusion suck in PvE and I don't agree with nerfing it so harshly

Great, I have to use weapons I don't like to still do well? I want to play an AXE mesmer. I enjoy AXE. I wanted to make Astralaria.

I don't care

if other builds are still good.

How much DPS do you have to do to enjoy Axe?

probably enough to not get kicked from high end raids.

[Trakarg.2095]

@Corax.7381 said:

@Trakarg.2095 said:

@OriOri.8724 said:People need to calm down.

I do not like the change to confusion in PvE. That said, mesmer DPS was not affected by it, you just have to change your build and rotation. Go to the mesmer forum. People have benchmarked power mesmer hitting 32k after this patch, and staff condi mirage has a SS of hitting 34k dps. This did not ruin mesmer's DPS, but it does make confusion suck in PvE and I don't agree with nerfing it so harshly

Great, I have to use weapons I don't like to still do well? I want to play an AXE mesmer. I enjoy AXE. I wanted to make Astralaria.

I don't care

if other builds are still good.

How much DPS do you have to do to enjoy Axe?

It wasn't overpowered before. What it was doing before would have been fine, lol.

[Blaeys.3102]

The damage over time not benefiting from condition damage is obviously a change that was made for the sake of PvP and WvW. There is zero reason this should have been implemented in PVE. As theorycrafters and early testers have already shown, it cripples many potential mirage condi dps builds (and likely any other that relies on confusion in any way).

The problem is obvious - confusion varies greatly based on the enemy you are fighting, but you cant realistically change from a condition to a non condition build between pulls. Players count on some consistency in pve, and this change makes the condition the opposite of consistent/reliable.

This needs to be fixed sooner rather than forcing the change on the community for a full quarter.

[nannorz.9548]

I have this legendary axe that I don't know what to do with now. Its useless on soulbeast, and now useless on Mirage. Put it in my bank I guess. Mesmer was the only profession I enjoyed. I got used to playing support chrono for a really long time, but I was really looking forward to a dps role that was condi. I even bought all those infusions to increase my dps. Now I don't know what to do. My builds are useless in all 3 game modes. I guess that's it for me.

[Zenith.7301]

The changes to confusion should have stayed in pvp.

The condition is ruined for PvE, back to useless.

Since condi mesmer, particularly mirage, relies heavily on confusion for its damage, the condi mesmer specs have been rendered obsolete by this highly unnecessary change in PvE.

Revert confusion in PvE, please. I bought the expansion to use my axe mirage, and now that is not happening for the foreseeable future.

Same goes for axes of symmetry confusion application, the reduction in clone application stacks should have been confined to pvp.

There was nothing wrong or overtuned with condi mirage in PVE prior to this patch. Now the spec is obsolete.

[dontlook.1823]

@OriOri.8724 said:People need to calm down.

I do not like the change to confusion in PvE. That said, mesmer DPS was not affected by it, you just have to change your build and rotation. Go to the mesmer forum. People have benchmarked power mesmer hitting 32k after this patch, and staff condi mirage has a SS of hitting 34k dps. This did not ruin mesmer's DPS, but it does make confusion suck in PvE and I don't agree with nerfing it so harshly

Nope. I hit the panic button for my Mirage :scream:

[Anaseth.5763]

Its really simple, ANET went way too far in their brilliant idea to change things and cut mesmer back to the point where raid spots will go elsewhere. The changes were poorly designed and implemented as a way to appease the PVP crowd at the expense of the PVE crowd. Anet proves that knee jerk reactions are their MO and keep on doing it.

[Conncept.7638]

@OriOri.8724 said:

@Trakarg.2095 said:

@OriOri.8724 said:People need to calm down.

I do not like the change to confusion in PvE. That said, mesmer DPS was not affected by it, you just have to change your build and rotation. Go to the mesmer forum. People have benchmarked power mesmer hitting 32k after this patch, and staff condi mirage has a SS of hitting 34k dps. This did not ruin mesmer's DPS, but it does make confusion suck in PvE and I don't agree with nerfing it so harshly

Great, I have to use weapons I don't like to still do well? I want to play an AXE mesmer. I enjoy AXE. I wanted to make Astralaria.

I don't care

if other builds are still good.

Believe it or not, there will always be someone who doesn't like the weapons on the meta builds for any class. That doesn't mean there is a problem with that class.

How detached can a person be? Both of your points are completely and utterly irrelevant and you can't even see why.

This isn't a matter of meta, or a matter of balance, it's a matter of functionality. You can't play these builds not because of balance changes bringing it in line with every other build, or even misguided balance changes that brought it below remaining builds, you can't play this build because an entire mechanic which previously functioned in a game mode well enough to complete content, now does not function in that game mode.

[dontlook.1823]

Crushed it. Crushed that dream. How do you feel? What do you have to say for yourself?? Hmmm

[superherofan.8042]

For PVE, this is not good at all. For PVP or WvW, I can understand. But for PVE, this change is a disaster.

[Kitta.3657]

I just want to know why this change wasn't split for PvE. It basically reverted why you even made it have passive damage when you last changed confusion. What's the reasoning behind gutting the condition from PvE? I absolutely understand why for sPvP, so again why wasn't this split properly?

[funbuket.1378]

All the hate aside, I don't suppose we could get a response from ANET regarding the reasoning behind the change to confusion from a PVE perspective? Was there a specific design philosophy in mind for this change? Even a short reply would be helpful :)

[BrokenGlass.9356]

@Kitta.3657 said:I just want to know why this change wasn't split for PvE. It basically reverted why you even made it have passive damage when you last changed confusion. What's the reasoning behind gutting the condition from PvE? I absolutely understand why for sPvP, so again why wasn't this split properly?

again, id like to tag @Robert Gee.9246 and reiterate, why was this change made?

[Khisanth.2948]

@"BrokenGlass.9356" said:"Bursty" can be a good thing. But if the condition does damage so poor that you can ignore it and wait out the duration... Then the newly buffed activated portion will rarely happen.

That usefulness of that is pretty obvious for a pvp environment if you can actually get someone to wait it out. That is effectively a daze that last as long as the confusion.

[b k.1648]

Actually quite happy to see confusion back to doing what it should have done all along. Since widespread torment application is available now (the condition didn't exist at launch) there's no sense in having a condition which is yet another barely-different flavour of DoT.

[BrokenGlass.9356]

@Ben K.6238 said:Actually quite happy to see confusion back to doing what it should have done all along. Since widespread torment application is available now (the condition didn't exist at launch) there's no sense in having a condition which is yet another barely-different flavour of DoT.

save that more than half of mesmer's kit revolves around it. in order for it to be legit, you'd have to do quite a bit.

the best condi builds ive seen sense the nerf, hit 21k thats pretty sad.

[BlaqueFyre.5678]

@ThomasC.1056 said:Confusion has been severly gutted in all game modes, and condi mesmer, whose confusion was the main source of damage, will be a huge hassle to play now.

I can understand the removal of the DoT part of confusion, eventhough, as @Astralporing.1957 said, it was the most significant part of damage in PvE where foes don't use skills as often. That's not what bothers me most.

The thing is : we got some times ago a "massive conditions overhaul", where we were explained that conditions were supposed to be damage over time, ramping damage, shouldn't be bursty etc. And now, confusions gets nerfed in its DoT aspect and all the conditions duration have been severly reduced.

The condition changes are going against the idea of DoT, against the idea of ramping damage (because short durations), which will result in an overall more bursty behaviour. It goes in the exact opposite way of the last conditions overhaul.

Now, I'm not saying condi mesmer was perfect, and there has been lots of complains for a reason, but... Isn't that an issue with consistency ?

.

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@zealex.9410 said:Confusion was supposed to be bursty hence the shorter cd but more quantity of stacks.First, last we heard conditions were supposed to be a slow ramp up longterm sustain types of damage, and burst was supposed to be power's domain. Second, there is no burst if there's no damage. And there's no damage if there's nothing to trigger it.

Just for an extreme case, please do consider confusion damage on Mursaat Overseer now.

@Astralporing.1957 and @ThomasC.1056Except you failed to see this quote from Karl back in December.

@Karl McLain.5604 said:The primary design for confusion is 'burst'; it's expected to deliver a lot of stacks at once for low duration, punishing skill usage for a short while and then falling off quickly. Due to this difference in nature, we chose to leave it alone in this patch.

This change is perfectly inline with Confusions design intent as stated by the Devs.