PvP/WvW Skill splits

[Dragonzhunter.8506]

@EnderzShadow.2506 said:you can with soulbeast?

dmn. You running paladins?

Yes, when I want to be bunker I play with Paladin+ Leadership / Survival+Nature+Soulbeast and I can stay vs 2 enemies too, ofc depends of what class enemy are. Also another bonus who help me to face other classes is the Owl, the leap is unbelievable nice, it is almost another evade/disengage.When I want to be damage dealer I am going with Berserker and Scholar.

Since last patch when they buffed Owl, I play with this pet in sPVP and WvW. I think it's the best pet atm. In sPVP I can move fast between points, also I can survive a lot in any fights 1 vs 1 or 1 vs 2 ... sometimes vs 3 too (but ofc I can't keep the point, just annoying them and keep them busy there till my party get another points).In WvW even I lose the power buff of Smokescale, with Owl I can disengage so many time, I have speed etc.

[Eleazar.9478]

@EnderzShadow.2506 said:

@Eleazar.9478 said:My wish came true!! Hehehe goodbye bunkers

And yes a GS buff more dps is always welcome. Now I'll have to tools to go hamYou and the nerf druid crew that spam these forums with piles of bull kitten make me sick.No loyalty to your own class.Like other classes don't have cheesier bunkers than Druid? Are you blind? Or you just hate the way Druids counter your glass builds?

Please play gs in Ranked. I look forward to it.

Stop being melodramatic see my comment reply against the dragonhunterz dude

And if I remember correctly I already saw you with a GS with core ranger in wvw pregs buffs, isn't that why your friends list it was after that you wispered me and asked me for my build.

Tell you both what if you want wisper me in game and we can have a druid off (probably will both die from boredom) that's why it's retarded

[Eleazar.9478]

@LughLongArm.5460 said:Initial thoughts:

1)What skill split? Most of the changes they suggested are for both PVP and WVW?

2)The approach on nerfing druids is terrible - You created a pure support specialization and took away all is supportive capabilities. You created a transformation mechanic based on resource management(AF) , and locked it behind a huge CD(20 sec?) and you left Druidic Clarity/Celestial Shadow(the real issue with druids) untouched. That's some strange design approach. It's not even a balance thing it's a specialization identity issue. If that's what you are going with at-least re-work druid passives and buff unused traits and glyphs.

3)Killing all our might stacking options(giving it all to axe) is to extreme, where are the buffs to trailts like hunter's gaze/potent ally etc...

4)Healing spring is a much better 'bear stance' now, you should buff the healing when heal consumed on 'bear stance' and reduce it's CD.

5)buff on dagger is ridiculous, the dagger ATM got no tools for pvp.

I can go on on, I love the concept of nerfing some strong things while buffing weak things but giving a passive stun break(Shared Anguis) a 90 sec CD is not the way to do it.Just re-work the trait to something more engaging and interesting. Tha'ts an example for your false approach with most of the suggested ideas.

Go to the page and comment suggestions!

[Dragonzhunter.8506]

@Eleazar.9478 said:Tell you both what if you want wisper me in game and we can have a druid off (probably will both die from boredom) that's why it's kitten

I am on EU servers, on Seafarer's Rest, I don't know on what server are you and believe me I don't have any reason to whisper you, also I mentioned many times that I don't play Druid anymore since POF release.

[Eleazar.9478]

@Dragonzhunter.8506 said:

@Eleazar.9478 said:Tell you both what if you want wisper me in game and we can have a druid off (probably will both die from boredom) that's why it's kitten

I am on EU servers, on Seafarer's Rest, I don't know on what server are you and believe me I don't have any reason to whisper you, also I mentioned many times that I don't play Druid anymore since POF release.

Well I guess you'll just miss out on the boredom. And I the nerfs I proposed wouldn't of hurt core ranger at all yet y'all still rage at me like I asked for Armageddon.

[Lonewolf Kai.3682]

@Dragonzhunter.8506 said:

@"arnitheking.8427" said:Some nerfs shouldnt go over to wvw though, druid is great for roaming and all but most of those nerfs would make druid even more of a "second choice" in group (like gvg) play than it already is

seems they want to see only soulbeast in WvW ...definitely they want to nerf big time druid.So, after so many asks from rangers himself , they decide to nerf ranger, not only druid, but many core rangers traits/utilities.What can I say, Good Job rangers, you are great in your asks to nerf yourself .

Big time? Did you not see what they are going to do to holosmith? Rangers got it easy. Holosmith isn’t getting the nerf bat, it’s getting the nerf sledgehammer!!

But yeah, the SoS nerf kinda sucks.

[Swagger.1459]

@Eleazar.9478 said:

@Dragonzhunter.8506 said:

@Eleazar.9478 said:Tell you both what if you want wisper me in game and we can have a druid off (probably will both die from boredom) that's why it's kitten

I am on EU servers, on Seafarer's Rest, I don't know on what server are you and believe me I don't have any reason to whisper you, also I mentioned many times that I don't play Druid anymore since POF release.

Well I guess you'll just miss out on the boredom. And I the nerfs I proposed wouldn't of hurt core ranger at all yet y'all still rage at me like I asked for Armageddon.

To be fair, you come off as completely inexperienced, and obviously refuse to use counters provided. If you made an effort to learn about various profession build weaknesses, then you’d have a different understanding.

Your previous nerf Druid thread complained about condi nerf, so that meant we needed to nerf Druid protection... you didn’t even realize that protection doesn’t prevent or reduce condition damage.

In this thread, you asked for a nerf to celestial shadow, but are obviously unaware of Reveal...

I mentioned before about poison debuffing all heals and regen by 33%, yet that’s not good enough for you I’m assuming.

If you want skillful play, then start learning and using the counter skills provided. Don’t rely on the devs to make fighting experience players easier for you. And FYI, even if these proposed changes go though, a good player using Druid will still beat you.

[Eleazar.9478]

@Lonewolf Kai.3682 said:

@Dragonzhunter.8506 said:

@"arnitheking.8427" said:Some nerfs shouldnt go over to wvw though, druid is great for roaming and all but most of those nerfs would make druid even more of a "second choice" in group (like gvg) play than it already is

seems they want to see only soulbeast in WvW ...definitely they want to nerf big time druid.So, after so many asks from rangers himself , they decide to nerf ranger, not only druid, but many core rangers traits/utilities.What can I say, Good Job rangers, you are great in your asks to nerf yourself .

Big time? Did you not see what they are going to do to holosmith? Rangers got it easy. Holosmith isn’t getting the nerf bat, it’s getting the nerf sledgehammer!!

But yeah, the SoS nerf kinda sucks.

The sos is a buff only 2 sec reduction for a 20 sec less of a CD a yes sign me up.

And druid quite honestly is probably going to be trash teir if they go ahead with this. (I'm just laughing cuase anytime you suggest a legit balance to the lame ass nm ws build people rage at you so you know what screw em

[Dragonzhunter.8506]

@Eleazar.9478 said:Well I guess you'll just miss out on the boredom. And I the nerfs I proposed wouldn't of hurt core ranger at all yet y'all still rage at me like I asked for Armageddon.

I didn't rage at you, just I don't like selfish ppl who cares only about their specialization, and they don't care about other fellow rangers.

[Eleazar.9478]

@Dragonzhunter.8506 said:

@Eleazar.9478 said:Well I guess you'll just miss out on the boredom. And I the nerfs I proposed wouldn't of hurt core ranger at all yet y'all still rage at me like I asked for Armageddon.

I didn't rage at you, just I don't like selfish ppl who cares only about their specialization, and they don't care about other fellow rangers.

Feel free to look at ALL the other buffs suggestions ect posts I've msde. I love ranger I don't love a boring ass build that just stalls fights, druid is so strong it pushes base and soulbeast ranger out of the meta. If was due to sick combos that's one thing but due to passive Regen and damage negation we're your rotation is 11111531111 f5 425 f5 reapears that build in particular you don't play against the other player you just play against your CDs

[Dragonzhunter.8506]

@"Eleazar.9478" said:Feel free to look at ALL the other buffs suggestions ect posts I've msde. I love ranger I don't love a boring kitten build that just stalls fights, druid is so strong it pushes base and soulbeast ranger out of the meta. If was due to sick combos that's one thing but due to passive Regen and damage negation we're your rotation is 11111531111 f5 425 f5 reapears that build in particular you don't play against the other player you just play against your CDs

But do you realize if the changes Anet proposed will remain, all ppl who have only HoT will not be able to play Druid anymore ? because will be useless ? Doesn't matter what you suggested, because Anet already shown us what they have in mind. And I specify that I didn't like your behavior regarding players who play druid "My wish came true!! Hehehe goodbye bunkers" , "Ya since I don't play bunker druid I don't care", I didn't mention on this post nothing about your suggestions from other posts.And I told you many times that I play Soulbeast and even is not in meta from my POV Soulbeast is very powerful in both sPVP and WvW.In sPVP when you see a ranger and you think he could be druid, you just can go bunker Soulbeast to, and you can balance in this way the game , having in both teams almost 1 bunker.

[shadowpass.4236]

To be completely honest, I believe Druid needs heavy nerfs. I just think Anet did it in the wrong way.

When I fight against a Druid, I feel like I'm fighting against the build rather than the player. The fact that I can't out dps a mender druid's healing while I'm running a berserker soulbeast for 4 minutes on point is ridiculous.

There needs to be a higher incentive to remain in CA rather than entering and leaving.

[jcbroe.4329]

@shadowpass.4236 said:To be completely honest, I believe Druid needs heavy nerfs. I just think Anet did it in the wrong way.

When I fight against a Druid, I feel like I'm fighting against the build rather than the player. The fact that I can't out dps a mender druid's healing while I'm running a berserker soulbeast for 4 minutes on point is ridiculous.

There needs to be a higher incentive to remain in CA rather than entering and leaving.

Yeah, they honestly didn't change Druid at all relative to the rest of the game with these changes.

Less healing? Less damage across the gamemodes.

20 second ICD? Who's going into Avatar on cooldown right now that this actually affects?

The only 2 nerfs that will even have any impact on gameplay feel are Refined Toxins and Protective Ward, but you know what, if ANet is truthfully moving the game towards being a more actively driven environment, then great.

Druid will still be the best duelist in PvP. These notes don't change that. I'm not personally upset by it, ANet only frustrates the developer side of me, but as a player, I'm ecstatic over how strong Druid will continue to be for the foreseeable future.

[Eleazar.9478]

@Dragonzhunter.8506 said:

@"Eleazar.9478" said:Feel free to look at

ALL

the other buffs suggestions ect posts I've msde. I love ranger I don't love a boring kitten build that just stalls fights, druid is so strong it pushes base and soulbeast ranger out of the meta. If was due to sick combos that's one thing but due to passive Regen and damage negation we're your rotation is 11111531111 f5 425 f5 reapears that build in particular you don't play against the other player you just play against your CDs

But do you realize if the changes Anet proposed will remain, all ppl who have only HoT will not be able to play Druid anymore ? because will be useless ? Doesn't matter what you suggested, because Anet already shown us what they have in mind. And I specify that I didn't like your behavior regarding players who play druid "My wish came true!! Hehehe goodbye bunkers" , "Ya since I don't play bunker druid I don't care", I didn't mention on this post nothing about your suggestions from other posts.And I told you many times that I play Soulbeast and even is not in meta from my POV Soulbeast is very powerful in both sPVP and WvW.In sPVP when you see a ranger and you think he could be druid, you just can go bunker Soulbeast to, and you can balance in this way the game , having in both teams almost 1 bunker.

I have no problem with druid being good, that's the post i made "how to balance druid" a buff/nerf it was to take the passive game play out druid and make it more active to get the sustain, but getting free CA (which = stealth/healing cleanse superseed) for just dodge rolling or getting hit on top of constantly reneging over 600 health per tic on top of constant protection and weakness, is bad and cancer for the game. Its just like when during season 1 of pvp it was all bunker crohnos and cele druids you would litearly just stare at each other in fact earlier to day i switched to my sustainy soul beast build and litarly just stared at a druid who couldnt remove me from a point. (i couldn't kill him since he could just stealth heal, range and come back.) and luckily i knew what he was doing so i told my team not worry, i kept him busy at my capped home while my team destroyed everyone else. but its that bs bunker run in circles that just sucks the fun out of fights. Its eve worse in wvw where most druids run toughness healing power and just troll effectively being the new version of ghost theefs or cele eles

This game is at its best when its closer to a fighting game with combos and skill than an mmo, that's why im so agains't PASSIVE regen bs. and judging from Anet's post they're seeing plenty other people are too

Also that post is tentative, if you have a solid change to a class or druid go comment on the post and make a well structured argument rather than dont nerf my class waaaa

[InsaneQR.7412]

Hold your horses, the patch is not out yet and we dont know how it will play out.All professions will get nerfs all over the place so in the end druid will probably not be trash tier. Painting the devil on the wall doesnt help here just wait until the patch comes out and then we see what happens and what is overnerfed.

[shadowpass.4236]

@jcbroe.4329 said:

@"shadowpass.4236" said:To be completely honest, I believe Druid needs heavy nerfs. I just think Anet did it in the wrong way.

When I fight against a Druid, I feel like I'm fighting against the build rather than the player. The fact that I can't out dps a mender druid's healing while I'm running a berserker soulbeast for 4 minutes on point is ridiculous.

There needs to be a higher incentive to remain in CA rather than entering and leaving.

Yeah, they honestly didn't change Druid at all relative to the rest of the game with these changes.

Less healing? Less damage across the gamemodes.

20 second ICD? Who's going into Avatar on cooldown right now that this actually affects?

The only 2 nerfs that will even have any impact on gameplay feel are Refined Toxins and Protective Ward, but you know what, if ANet is truthfully moving the game towards being a more actively driven environment, then great.

Druid will still be the best duelist in PvP. These notes don't change that. I'm not personally upset by it, ANet only frustrates the developer side of me, but as a player, I'm ecstatic over how strong Druid will continue to be for the foreseeable future.

Yeah none of the nerfs actually affect the meta build. Druid will still be stupidly strong because it still has ridiculous access to burst healing. The 5 second cooldown just gives a longer period of time before they get full healed from CA.

Ideally, I would like healing removed from CA completely except from CA 3. That would require Anet to change the functionality, which I'm not sure they would consider.

Have you seen my post on:https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/29690/pvp-wvw-skill-split-release#latest

I spent about 2 hours typing up my suggestions for the balance patch.

[Draeyon.4392]

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

@Hiraldo.7954 said:At first glance most of these changes look good, however I'm very puzzled as to why Celestial Avatar CD is being increased, heals are being reduced, and GoTL is being nerfed. Druid is barely viable as a healer in WvW right now and this will likely kill it entirely.

We

may

rethink some of the druid nerfs for WvW and do them PvP only. We're planning to have a meeting next week to go over feedback. We'll be revising the list over the next week or so and my plan is to post a first revision by the end of next week.

There may be some light at the end of the tunnel for Druid in WvW.Will wait and see.

[Durzlla.6295]

@jcbroe.4329 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:To be completely honest, I believe Druid needs heavy nerfs. I just think Anet did it in the wrong way.

When I fight against a Druid, I feel like I'm fighting against the build rather than the player. The fact that I can't out dps a mender druid's healing while I'm running a berserker soulbeast for 4 minutes on point is ridiculous.

There needs to be a higher incentive to remain in CA rather than entering and leaving.

Yeah, they honestly didn't change Druid at all relative to the rest of the game with these changes.

Less healing? Less damage across the gamemodes.

20 second ICD? Who's going into Avatar on cooldown right now that this actually affects?

The only 2 nerfs that will even have any impact on gameplay feel are Refined Toxins and Protective Ward, but you know what, if ANet is truthfully moving the game towards being a more actively driven environment, then great.

Druid will still be the best duelist in PvP. These notes don't change that. I'm not personally upset by it, ANet only frustrates the developer side of me, but as a player, I'm ecstatic over how strong Druid will continue to be for the foreseeable future.

Yeah, the changes to Druid in the grand scheme of things aren’t gonna do a whole lot, I’m just more mildly annoyed that they’re gonna force me to actually slot some condi cleanse with that seed of life nerf..

[Zintrothen.1056]

Every forum: we got nerfed so hard! We're all doomed! We're definitely the only ones who got gutted! Oh no!

You'll be fine.

Druid will be fine. Holo will be fine. SB will be fine. Mirage will be fine. Major nerfs to clearly massively OP mechanics are part of balance. Druid deserves a nerf. Holo deserves a nerf. SB deserves a nerf. Mirage deserves a nerf.

I don't agree with all the changes, and we should be vocal about them, but Druid needs a nerf. It's been OP since HoT and has only been glanced by the nerf hammer.

CAF could be used extremely frequently, but they aren't nerfing mechanics this patch (so far), so they can't nerf the full cleanse/stunbreak and stealth/superspeed that are the culprits to making Druid OP, besides the moronic pet damage and mechanics. They're fixing the Signet of Stone problem (6 seconds is stupid OP, no matter how long the CD is). Now they just need to rework the cleanse/stunbreak, and stealth/superspeed. Druid needs a different way to deal with stuns, and the constant stealthing makes it impossible to do any meaningful damage because it's so easy to reset a fight. This is actually more a problem with the stealth mechanic being unfun to play against than it is a problem with the trait. Stealth needs to be reworked for sure.

To sum up, Druids will finally be killable! Except not because you'll still have those two OP traits. So yeah, you'll fine after this. Just like Holo and SB and Mirage and everyone who isn't a Weaver, Renegade, Soulbeast, and Deadeye (in PvP).

[Xenash.1245]

I see those nerfs and all I can think about is that someone at ArenaNet really doesn't like rangers stacking might

Also I know it's a change that's only for pvp, but the cooldown on stoneform is just ridiculous. They should just change it instead of making it's cooldown almost twice that of an elite skill.

[shadowpass.4236]

@Zintrothen.1056 said:Every forum: we got nerfed so hard! We're all doomed! We're definitely the only ones who got gutted! Oh no!

You'll be fine.

Druid will be fine. Holo will be fine. SB will be fine. Mirage will be fine. Major nerfs to clearly massively OP mechanics are part of balance. Druid deserves a nerf. Holo deserves a nerf. SB deserves a nerf. Mirage deserves a nerf.

I don't agree with all the changes, and we should be vocal about them, but Druid needs a nerf. It's been OP since HoT and has only been glanced by the nerf hammer.

CAF could be used extremely frequently, but they aren't nerfing mechanics this patch (so far), so they can't nerf the full cleanse/stunbreak and stealth/superspeed that are the culprits to making Druid OP, besides the moronic pet damage and mechanics. They're fixing the Signet of Stone problem (6 seconds is stupid OP, no matter how long the CD is). Now they just need to rework the cleanse/stunbreak, and stealth/superspeed. Druid needs a different way to deal with stuns, and the constant stealthing makes it impossible to do any meaningful damage because it's so easy to reset a fight. This is actually more a problem with the stealth mechanic being unfun to play against than it is a problem with the trait. Stealth needs to be reworked for sure.

To sum up, Druids will finally be killable! Except not because you'll still have those two OP traits. So yeah, you'll fine after this. Just like Holo and SB and Mirage and everyone who isn't a Weaver, Renegade, Soulbeast, and Deadeye (in PvP).

I don't think you understand what most of us are saying...

We want Druid to be nerfed, but the changes Anet proposed don't actually affect the strength of the meta build. It will still be stupidly strong after the patch because Anet didn't address the actual problems.

If the changes go through, all Anet would've accomplished would be to make Druid slightly more inconvenient while still retaining all of its strengths.

[Xenash.1245]

I think everyone in this thread is way too focused with only druid. Try to branch out and think about how this will affect core ranger and soulbeast

[Eleazar.9478]

@shadowpass.4236 I read your post and actually really like alot of your changes however the changes they propose will hurt the meta druid build. (However if they were to Nerf druidaic clairity and shadow ya that would work) Nature magic and ws with menders provides too much Regen if it didn't effect can Regen that's one thing but having it passivley Regen over 600, plus sig of renewal witch is another 160,

That's 760, basically every 2 seconds your out regening autos. (Considering the high protection and good weakness proc) I think it's a step in the right direction with the reduced scaleing however I'd like to see rugged growth buffed to 300-400 base just so it gives a boost to all other builds not running NM.

[Mr Pin.6728]

Well the changes as they stand right now would really only crush WvW druid, which is sort of odd as they want to encourage build diversity yet druid isn't even a meta build in WvW. I know there are some niche roaming/ dueling builds that center around druid but that particular playstyle is hardly an unbalancing force to the game mode. Druid really doesn't supply enough team support through boons or condi cleanse to see acceptance in organized squads. There are just too many options that are better in WvW. So really all the changes would do is further push druid down while limiting build diversity in WvW. The fact that this wasn't seen immediately makes me dubious of the effectiveness of this up coming skill split.

[Arheundel.6451]

@Xenash.1245 said:I think everyone in this thread is way too focused with only druid. Try to branch out and think about how this will affect core ranger and soulbeast

Soulbeast sustain not there yet....