Surnames

[Renegade.6240]

I like rolling characters with surnames instead of just one name (I think it's OK with the Sylvari and the Asura to roll just one name though, lorewise) but I really don't like the fact that some NPCs who are supposed to be my besties call me with my surname too.Can't you add an optional surname mechanic, so the when you talk to NPCs they will call you only by your first name but your character will show his/her surname above their beautiful heads. LOTRO does this well ^^

[Just a flesh wound.3589]

How will the game know what is a surname and how will it handle other name? Let’s say a char is named Frivolous Nancy. Will the NPC call her Frivolous? What if the char is named I like To Ride Mounts. What will the NPC call that char?

[GrubySzymek.1362]

God please no. Can't survive more Targaryens in LA.

[Renegade.6240]

@Just a flesh wound.3589 said:How will the game know what is a surname and how will it handle other name? Let’s say a char is named Frivolous Nancy. Will the NPC call her Frivolous? What if the char is named I like To Ride Mounts. What will the NPC call that char?

Well doing it the lotro style would work, in that game your character initially has only one name (1 word, no spaces), but then after going to a major city, you can find notaries who will allow you to have a surname. Your surname can be turned on-off at your wish, even if you have one you can choose to not show it, and you can also change it for a little fee if you'd like.I think this system works very well but i don't know if it'd be hard to implement it into GW 2 since the names can comprise of more than 1 word and this system would mean those have to change and bla bla bla.

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:God please no. Can't survive more Targaryens in LA.

Well i don't get how this system would make stuff worse, see you said it yourself, there is already a lot of them without the system, so it wouldn't hurt anything imho.

[Tom Gore.4035]

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:God please no. Can't survive more Targaryens in LA.

Surely you mean Tagraryens, Targaaryens, Targariens and Targgaryens?

[Just a flesh wound.3589]

@Renegade.6240 said:

@Just a flesh wound.3589 said:How will the game know what is a surname and how will it handle other name? Let’s say a char is named Frivolous Nancy. Will the NPC call her Frivolous? What if the char is named I like To Ride Mounts. What will the NPC call that char?

Well doing it the lotro style would work, in that game your character initially has only one name (1 word, no spaces), but then after going to a major city, you can find notaries who will allow you to have a surname. Your surname can be turned on-off at your wish, even if you have one you can choose to not show it, and you can also change it for a little fee if you'd like.I think this system works very well but i don't know if it'd be hard to implement it into GW 2 since the names can comprise of more than 1 word and this system would mean those have to change and bla bla bla.

I really doubt that system would work in this game as very few chars only have one word names. I can’t imagine very many would want to change their char names to one word and then add a surname, which wouldn’t even be said by the NPCs.

[costepj.5120]

Many websites and social media apps have two fields - account name and display name. I guess this could work in game too. Can't say I pay much attention to what NPCs call me. Mostly they seem to use a generic title such as Commander?My pet gripe is all those NPCs I've been regularly helping for years, but who still blank me!

[Danikat.8537]

What if instead of separate boxes for first name and surname or NPCs just using the first word of your characters name there was an optional extra box for a 'nickname' or 'story name' which is what NPCs would use?

That way there wouldn't have to be any relation to the characters actual name and since it would only appear in text boxes when you're talking to NPCs it wouldn't need to be unique like character names are, meaning everyone could pick what their characters get called. So Frivolous Nancy could put in 'Nancy' or 'Frivi' or 'Bob' if she wanted.

Then when Anet are writing NPC dialogue they just need to consider how familiar they're being and set it to use a title like Commander, your full name or your nickname. (Because it would be a bit weird if a Pact soldier met Frivolous Nancy for the first name and somehow knew her friends call her Bob and decided to do that too.) And if you've not set a nickname it defaults to using the full character name like it does now.

[Doghouse.1562]

@"Renegade.6240" said:I like rolling characters with surnames instead of just one name (I think it's OK with the Sylvari and the Asura to roll just one name though, lorewise) but I really don't like the fact that some NPCs who are supposed to be my besties call me with my surname too.Can't you add an optional surname mechanic, so the when you talk to NPCs they will call you only by your first name but your character will show his/her surname above their beautiful heads. LOTRO does this well ^^

I understand where you're coming from, up to a point - when I rolled a Human Character and did the PS chapter "Ashes of the Past", there's a point where you can read a gravestone with the inscription: "Three joys gave his life meaning: his wife, his country, and above all, his child. May the gods bless and protect our beloved ((Montgomery Simpson, or whoever))." And having "my" parent supposedly talking about "me" by "my" full name jarred, and felt downright weird.

It's not going to happen - WAY too much investment for something basically cosmetic at this point. Heavens, we don't even get to permanently name our ranger pets. But it's interesting to thing about. Probably the easiest solution would be to allow characters to have a unique character name field, and then a second name field to be used in dialogues, rather than trying to work out whether or not the character actually has a surname, and if so, what it is. But it's definitely non-trivial, because names are non-trivial.

Read the following article if you think names are easy - the list of common, but false, assumptions is... instructive. And if you get bored - at least skip to number 40.

[Menadena.7482]

@Just a flesh wound.3589 said:How will the game know what is a surname and how will it handle other name? Let’s say a char is named Frivolous Nancy. Will the NPC call her Frivolous? What if the char is named I like To Ride Mounts. What will the NPC call that char?

Exactly, plus in some cultures the surname comes first. You would need to designate a full name and a shortened name. Plus to make the most sense the shortened name may not always be exactly your 'first' name. William Tell maybe having a shortened name of Bill for example.

[Doghouse.1562]

@Menadena.7482 said:

@"Just a flesh wound.3589" said:How will the game know what is a surname and how will it handle other name? Let’s say a char is named Frivolous Nancy. Will the NPC call her Frivolous? What if the char is named I like To Ride Mounts. What will the NPC call that char?

Exactly, plus in some cultures the surname comes first. You would need to designate a full name and a shortened name. Plus to make the most sense the shortened name may not always be exactly your 'first' name. William Tell maybe having a shortened name of Bill for example.

And some cultures don't have surnames at all. Myanmar, for example. Or - take that well-known pacifist and philanthropist, Gaius Julius Caesar. He's something akin to "Gaius of the Caesarian family from the Julian clan". In fact, "Julius Caesar" is as near as he comes to having a surname as we'd recognise it.

[GrubySzymek.1362]

@Danikat.8537 said:What if instead of separate boxes for first name and surname or NPCs just using the first word of your characters name there was an optional extra box for a 'nickname' or 'story name' which is what NPCs would use?

That way there wouldn't have to be any relation to the characters actual name and since it would only appear in text boxes when you're talking to NPCs it wouldn't need to be unique like character names are, meaning everyone could pick what their characters get called. So Frivolous Nancy could put in 'Nancy' or 'Frivi' or 'Bob' if she wanted.

Then when Anet are writing NPC dialogue they just need to consider how familiar they're being and set it to use a title like Commander, your full name or your nickname. (Because it would be a bit weird if a Pact soldier met Frivolous Nancy for the first name and somehow knew her friends call her Bob and decided to do that too.) And if you've not set a nickname it defaults to using the full character name like it does now.

It is all waste of resources. Mostly because most people don't even read those dialogues. In addition, we already have nicknames used in story - Commander, Boss, Bookah. After Claw Island every player in the game is roleplaying the same character. No need for such elaborate systems.

[Lonecap.4105]

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@Danikat.8537 said:What if instead of separate boxes for first name and surname or NPCs just using the first word of your characters name there was an optional extra box for a 'nickname' or 'story name' which is what NPCs would use?

That way there wouldn't have to be any relation to the characters actual name and since it would only appear in text boxes when you're talking to NPCs it wouldn't need to be unique like character names are, meaning everyone could pick what their characters get called. So Frivolous Nancy could put in 'Nancy' or 'Frivi' or 'Bob' if she wanted.

Then when Anet are writing NPC dialogue they just need to consider how familiar they're being and set it to use a title like Commander, your full name or your nickname. (Because it would be a bit weird if a Pact soldier met Frivolous Nancy for the first name and somehow knew her friends call her Bob and decided to do that too.) And if you've not set a nickname it defaults to using the full character name like it does now.

It is all waste of resources. Mostly because most people don't even read those dialogues. In addition, we already have nicknames used in story - Commander, Boss, Bookah. After Claw Island every player in the game is roleplaying the same character. No need for such elaborate systems.

I have to agree with you. It's a waste. The roleplaying in the game is already a stretch...

[Menadena.7482]

@Doghouse.1562 said:

@Menadena.7482 said:

@"Just a flesh wound.3589" said:How will the game know what is a surname and how will it handle other name? Let’s say a char is named Frivolous Nancy. Will the NPC call her Frivolous? What if the char is named I like To Ride Mounts. What will the NPC call that char?

Exactly, plus in some cultures the surname comes first. You would need to designate a full name and a shortened name. Plus to make the most sense the shortened name may not always be exactly your 'first' name. William Tell maybe having a shortened name of Bill for example.

And some cultures don't have surnames at all. Myanmar, for example. Or - take that well-known pacifist and philanthropist, Gaius Julius Caesar. He's something akin to "Gaius of the Caesarian family from the Julian clan". In fact, "Julius Caesar" is as near as he comes to having a surname as we'd recognise it.

Yeah, there is at least one other country too but it is way too early to remember which one. I was watching a vid on youtube recently about the logistics of one name in a world that assumes two. The bottom line was it was possible but generally not a recommended thing for changing your name to unless you were from a culture where it was common.

[Danikat.8537]

Maybe you don't care what your character gets called, maybe a lot of people don't care, but clearly some people do care - enough to ask for it to be changed. (And no, this is not the first time this has come up.)

You could equally say only a minority of people play PvP tournaments, or make any given legendary weapon, therefore any work that goes into it is a waste of time should not be done. But if you start applying that logic to everything you're going to end up with a very, very short and boring list of things absolutely everyone in the game does. And guess what? Naming your characters would still be on that list.

If someone from Anet says it would take a huge amount of time and effort to change then yes, it's probably not worth it. But for all we know it would take one person 5 minutes to make the change, and then I think it would absolutely be worthwhile. Either way it can't hurt to ask.

@Doghouse.1562 said:

@"Renegade.6240" said:I like rolling characters with surnames instead of just one name (I think it's OK with the Sylvari and the Asura to roll just one name though, lorewise) but I really don't like the fact that some NPCs who are supposed to be my besties call me with my surname too.Can't you add an optional surname mechanic, so the when you talk to NPCs they will call you only by your first name but your character will show his/her surname above their beautiful heads. LOTRO does this well ^^

I understand where you're coming from, up to a point - when I rolled a Human Character and did the PS chapter "Ashes of the Past", there's a point where you can read a gravestone with the inscription: "Three joys gave his life meaning: his wife, his country, and above all, his child. May the gods bless and protect our beloved ((Montgomery Simpson, or whoever))." And having "my" parent supposedly talking about "me" by "my" full name jarred, and felt downright weird.

It's not going to happen - WAY too much investment for something basically cosmetic at this point. Heavens, we don't even get to permanently name our ranger pets. But it's interesting to thing about. Probably the easiest solution would be to allow characters to have a unique character name field, and then a second name field to be used in dialogues, rather than trying to work out whether or not the character actually has a surname, and if so, what it is. But it's definitely non-trivial, because

names

are non-trivial.

Read

the following article

if you think names are easy - the list of common, but false, assumptions is... instructive. And if you get bored - at least skip to number 40.

Oh, that's going to be even weirder with my new human character. His first name is what he got called in the orphanage and his 'family name' is actually a nickname his grandfather gave him, so his parents would have called him something completely different. Didn't think about that when I picked the dead parents option and I'm not re-doing him now I've used a level 50 scroll and a total makeover kit on him.

[Menadena.7482]

@Danikat.8537 said:Maybe you don't care what your character gets called, maybe a lot of people don't care, but clearly some people do care - enough to ask for it to be changed. (And no, this is not the first time this has come up.)

You could equally say only a minority of people play PvP tournaments, or make any given legendary weapon, therefore any work that goes into it is a waste of time should not be done. But if you start applying that logic to everything you're going to end up with a very, very short and boring list of things absolutely everyone in the game does. And guess what? Naming your characters would still be on that list.

If someone from Anet says it would take a huge amount of time and effort to change then yes, it's probably not worth it. But for all we know it would take one person 5 minutes to make the change, and then I think it would absolutely be worthwhile. Either way it can't hurt to ask.

You also have the reverse. The countless 'anet MUST do xyz' threads, usually with posts of people saying they are not interested in the change or do not want it.

@Danikat.8537 said:Oh, that's going to be even weirder with my new human character. His first name is what he got called in the orphanage and his 'family name' is actually a nickname his grandfather gave him, so his parents would have called him something completely different. Didn't think about that when I picked the dead parents option and I'm not re-doing him now I've used a level 50 scroll and a total makeover kit on him.

Names get into interesting territory. My grandfather's first and last names were valid names in 'the old country' but his last name got changed at Ellis Island to 'americanize' it. While his first name was not legally changed most people called him a common english name so his name on most paperwork would have been unrecognizable as one of their descendants if he had the ability to talk to his ancestors a few generations back. Basically my point is names are strange.

[Doghouse.1562]

Names get into interesting territory. My grandfather's first and last names were valid names in 'the old country' but his last name got changed at Ellis Island to 'americanize' it. While his first name was not legally changed most people called him a common english name so his name on most paperwork would have been unrecognizable as one of their descendants if he had the ability to talk to his ancestors a few generations back. Basically my point is names are strange.

And technically, here in the UK, your name is, basically - whatever you're called. "The artist formerly known as Prince" would have fitted right in. Common Law still holds. Want to change your name? Start insisting on being called something else. Job done. The need to prove that you are who you claim to be, for the purposes of bank accounts, passports and so on, has moved us more in the general direction of a "legal" name than at one time - but we don't actually have one, let alone a formal prescription of how that name should be structured. It's all, in the end, convention. Even the well-known (here) "changed his name by Deed Poll" is actually just about a more formal way of telling everyone that you've decided to be called something else.

[Randulf.7614]

Lotro uses a one word naming system. The surname is purchasable extra a few levels into the game (it works more like an extra title for your toon), but for all intents and purposes, the game recognises the first name because that is your name. GW2, like other multi name mmo's recognise all parts of the name as the name, so it can't separate it out in the same way.

[Zedek.8932]

Surnames are for Bookahs.

Excelsior.

[Doghouse.1562]

@Danikat.8537 said:Maybe you don't care what your character gets called, maybe a lot of people don't care, but clearly some people do care - enough to ask for it to be changed. (And no, this is not the first time this has come up.)

Yes, I care what my character is called. Up to a point. But it's not, honestly, a big deal. Plus I worked in a development environment for two decades, and it's simply not something I see happening at this stage. If someone had suggested it during design, maybe - but, however much you ask, however many times, not now. Not only would this be a purely cosmetic (and rather obscure) change that, in my opinion at least, most people would be frankly indifferent about, but it's probably deeply embedded in way too much code for it to be trivial. It's certainly not something I could ever envisage ANet targeting as a feature for a future patch. And on the pragmatic level, not only could it could easily be significant effort, but also it would be wasted effort, because it would bring them in precisely zero extra revenue unless they made it something purchasable, whilst diverting manpower from other work - and, at the end of the day, ANet are a business, not a charity. So it's the sort of feature that, at best, someone might decide to just casually investigate the next time they have the appropriate piece of code open - and consider doing if and only if it turns out to be a couple of lines of code at most and absolutely trivial. Otherwise, the investment in time and effort (including testing) is ludicrously out of proportion to the payback, and simply isn't worth the candle. And frankly, too, there are many other more useful things I suspect that the broad community would rather see ANet do first - such as extra content to keep this ageing game that we all enjoy alive. If that means putting up with sub-optimal naming, most people are likely to be way more than happy.

[Doghouse.1562]

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