Dragons vs Human Gods?

[EpicName.4523]

I'm not much of a lore fan, just mostly bored. Anyway, been thinking that each of the elder dragons has a sphere of influence which is more or less related to that of some of the human gods.

Lyssa is now connected to water so the mysterious ocean dragon has some common ground with her.Zhaitan>GrenthMordremoth>MelandruPrimordus>BalthazarThis leaves Kralka...whatever-his-name-was and Jormag. Dwayna is healing and air while Kormir is truth and yada yada. Each pair is difficult to fit together so I'll leave it to your imagination.

Now...do you think the writers will eventually make some plot twist that the human gods stole power from Tyria or something to empower themselves and that is why dragons rise to absorb it back and stuff?

As a side note, if Joko is a lich why wasn't he affected by Zhaitan? He is undead after all, and them dragons are supposed to be the most powerful beings on Tyria?

Yes, got nothing better to do...

[Malerine.5762]

The more i think about that. The more i thinks human gods weren t as good as they saidI also can inagine that finaly they stole power from dragons and could be one of the reason dragons wanna kill us

[ThatOddOne.4387]

So you want the Gods to be undermined even more than they already are?

Let me tell you what we actually know from literally the Path of Fire storyline: The Gods did not fight the Dragons because it would have destroyed the world, either because of the energies unleashed in the clashing of the two entities, or the result of killing the Elder Dragons causing the planet to die regardless.

This implies only one thing: The Gods had the power to take on the Elder Dragons but they chose not to because the collateral (IE: Tyria being destroyed along with all the races the Gods theoretically would have warred with the Dragons to protect) would have rendered the victory pointless.

The Gods also came from beyond Tyria and had their power already, they did not take any from the sleeping dragons and there has been no reference or clue hinting to such. It has no backing.

Of course, ArenaNet are so fixated on making the Gods appear like villains at worst or incompetent at best this might very well turn out to be the case.

But as things stand currently: The Gods are just as powerful as the Elder Dragons and certainly could have defeated them. The sheer fact that the Gods can work in concert whilst the Elder Dragons are opposed to each other also helps this, it would have been 6 Gods vs 1 Elder Dragon at a time.

But that would have destroyed Tyria, so they did not.

[derd.6413]

dragons have been doing this longer then the gods have been around. the theory that the dragons and the gods are connected has been around ever since we knew there where 6 dragons and nobody has found a way to make it work

[Tyson.5160]

I think this has been discussed in earlier forums and from in game lore the gods have nothing to do with the Elder Dragons.

That being said, I would not be surprised if the gods had the same role as Elder Dragon like entities on a different planet.

[Rognik.2579]

This comes up every so often, throwing around theories about how the Six Gods and the Elder Dragons are similar or related in so way. So far, there's been no evidence of a connection, especially as outside of the three mentioned in the OP, the other three dragons and gods don't have the same link. This becomes especially difficult if you try to deal with Kormir taking over Abaddon's position. I'm not saying the theory is wrong, but it's tenuous at best.

[Bast.7253]

What would the correlating matches be?

Melandru Mordremoth.Balthazar Primordus.Grenth Jormag.Abaddon/Kormir deep sea dragon.Lyssa Kralkatorrik.Zhaitan is kind on outlier though. Unless it’s meant to be the opposite of Dwayna.

I do hope to see something about Lyssa at some point given the teased relation between her and Balthazar and I like the idea that the ruined Mirror of Lys in Vabbi is all branded and twisted vaguely forshadowing that she could be corrupted or just that the two are equal but opposite forces. Especially if the theory that Jenna is really Lyssa ever turned out to be true given that Jenna summoned an illusion of Kralk.

I like the idea that there could be a relation between the elder dragons and gods but there hasn’t really been any connection in game. There is mention of the jotun believing that the stars themselves shift with the awakenings of elder dragons and cycles, so it would be neat if their existence and awakenings or even deaths had some kind of impact on a corresponding god.

I do have my doubts however even if there is no connection to any of it that the gods actually left. Kormir says they did, but if you didn’t want humanity believing you were hiding in plain site or silently working in less destructive ways to protect humanity and Tyria even if just politically, then you would want them to think that you were gone.

But who knows, I honestly don’t think their writing goes that far ahead. The writing of last season in particular with Lazarus and Balthazar just left me thinking they make things up as they go and will quickly change things however it needs to fit where they want to take the game.

I think Mordremoth and Sylvari has good build up and might have been planned pretty well when the game came out, but I’m not sure any of this magic exploding Tyria with the death of too many dragons was ever a thing too many years back and they just decided they didn’t want to keep following a dragon centric plot.

Given Kormirs ascension, I don’t believe the gods were really anything other than extraordinarily powerful humans from the mists anyway.

I think in the end there are just a lot of questions that will never be answered and things never to be expanded upon for the simple fact that they don’t even know where they want to take it and are just going with the flow.

Not saying that’s a bad thing, just that you can’t really speculate too much as a community because you’re ultimately probably creating more to a story that hasn’t been written or finished yet.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

Ah, this old thing. Again.

This has been so thoroughly discussed that it's not only a dead horse, it's a head horse with a reference made in the game about it being a dead horse.

Path of Fire should have made it pretty clear that the two groups hold no direct relation, if the Orrian History Scrolls denoting three (and hinting all six pre-Grenth gods) being gods before their arrival on the world of Tyria.

The first of the gods to step forth from the mists was Dwayna, goddess of air and life. She placed her pale foot on the stones of Arah, opened the gates, and brought humanity to the world. She chose Tyria and brought with her those who would make this world a paradise. As she had promised, Dwayna led her people to peace. Balthazar came in fire and wrath, carrying the head of his father and leading his fierce hounds, Temar and Tegon. He swept Orr with a cleansing flame. It was he who claimed Tyria for humanity; he who said the other races would be easy to defeat. It would not be the only time that the Master of War was wrong. Next came the goddess of nature. Wise Melandru, oldest of them all, made of Orr a green and flowering expanse. She urged peace with the races already present on this world, but her advice was not heeded. When she saw destruction, she brought creation. Where she saw anger, she grew love. With this, Melandru prepared for a future she knew would be troubled. The two who are one, Ilya and Lyss, brought with her the hope and beauty of humanity. While the other gods focused on building Arah and beginning a new future, Lyssa gave them joy and helped them forget the past. For a while she lived, veiled and hidden, in the village of Wren. When the building of Arah was completed Lyssa was commanded to join the other gods, though her tears fell like rain among the western road. Among them was Abaddon—once secret-keeper, now betrayer. How you have fallen from the glorious days of old. What passed beyond in the Mists, only you remember. Abaddon, Abaddon. Your name has been erased from the towers, your cathedral condemned to the sea. Turn your faces away, oh sons and daughters, and let not his gifts tempt you. Grenth, son of Dwayna, first god born of Tyria. His powers deal in mortality and judgment. Defeater of Dhuum, Lord of the Seven Reapers, he is the prince of ice and sorrow. Standing before his immortal mother, Grenth claimed his place among the gods. Where his father had fallen, Grenth would rise.

Furthermore, attempts at correlation always fall apart at the halfway point. In fact, they don't even make the halfway point.

• Sure, Primordus and Balthazar both have fire, but where is Primordus' war?
• Sure, Mordremoth and Melandru both have plants, but Melandru is all nature, fauna and flora, while Mordremoth is just flora; furthermore, where is Melandru's mind?
• Jormag and Grenth may be ice, but Dhuum shows no signs of ice even with the new raid battle, and no other god ever showed ice.
• Grenth ends up meeting two dragons (Jormag and Zhaitan), while Dhuum meets just the one and Jormag meets none if we go with "original gods".
• Abaddon meets the DSD, but Kormir doesn't. Lyssa's full domain over water is not only fairly recent (post-Nightfall), but it's about the reflective surface of water alone.
• There is no dragon of beauty or illusion, no god of crystal, no dragon of life, no god of mind.

The comparisons fall short. Every time.

Furthermore, half of the comparisons can only work because of the gods' loose domain over elements - dragons are fully elemental beings in their primary domain, while the gods are fully metaphysical in their primary domain. The gods' domains over elements have shifted - from no god with ice to Grenth with ice; from Abaddon with water to Lyssa with water.

So the little that connects the two groups, beyond being powerful beings tied to the number six, is flimsy at best because on one side of the chart, it shifts around willy nilly.

The closest relation the gods and dragons can hold is that the gods held the same purpose in the human's original homeworld before it faced the cataclysm that caused the gods to flee it with humans (and likely Forgotten, perhaps more) in tow.

@EpicName.4523 said:As a side note, if Joko is a lich why wasn't he affected by Zhaitan? He is undead after all, and them dragons are supposed to be the most powerful beings on Tyria?

Because even if the Elder Dragons are among the most powerful individuals, they are not all powerful.

Besides, the risen were not traditional undead as we see all other necromancers create (be they minion-styled undead or zombies/skeletons/etc. undead like Awakened).

@"Malerine.5762" said:The more i think about that. The more i thinks human gods weren t as good as they saidI also can inagine that finaly they stole power from dragons and could be one of the reason dragons wanna kill us

Except that the gods only arrived around 3,000 years ago, while the Elder Dragons are over 20,000 years old, possibly over 30,000 years old. And they were just as brutal then - if not moreso - than they are now. Sans the whole "absorbing dead Elder Dragons' domains" bits.

@ThatOddOne.4387 said:But as things stand currently: The Gods are just as powerful as the Elder Dragons and certainly could have defeated them. The sheer fact that the Gods can work in concert whilst the Elder Dragons are opposed to each other also helps this, it would have been 6 Gods vs 1 Elder Dragon at a time.

But that would have destroyed Tyria, so they did not.

More accurately:

The Elder Dragons when they wake are weaker than or on par to the gods, but have the potential to become far stronger (Kralkatorrik as he is now is probably greater than any one of the Six Gods).

The reason the gods wouldn't fit isn't so much that the battle itself would cause massive collateral (though this is true), but rather that if they killed the Elder Dragons, Tyria's The All would become imbalanced and the world destroyed, even if they managed the magic somehow (this is why we couldn't just let Balthazar kill and absorb Primordus', Jormag's, or Kralkatorrik's magic). While alternatively, should the gods have fallen, their unleashed magic would have destroyed the world just as Abaddon's magic threatened to during Nightfall from the Realm of Torment (it's unclear whether the Elder Dragons can absorb an actual god's magic - a lot of divine magic seems to be counter-Elder Dragon, and what Kralkatorrik and Aurene absorbed wasn't the god of war's magic, but magic Balthazar took from the Bloodstone, Primordus, and Jormag).

@"cptaylor.2670" said:-snip-

There really isn't any connection between Kralkatorrik and Lyssa other than the color purpose. Kralkatorrik and his branded have zero mental or illusionary powers. And purple is used as an overall "color of evil" ever since Nightfall. We see hues and tints of purple in any heavily corrupted area of the Elder Dragons' - most prevalent with Mordremoth though.

@"cptaylor.2670" said:I do have my doubts however even if there is no connection to any of it that the gods actually left. Kormir says they did, but if you didn’t want humanity believing you were hiding in plain site or silently working in less destructive ways to protect humanity and Tyria even if just politically, then you would want them to think that you were gone.

So you're arguing that the Six Gods (for they are still six, as Kormir and overarching lore of the gods says) are so caught up in wanting humanity to believe that they're gone that they:

1) Lied to followers about finding a new world in which they can take humanity to, one without Elder Dragons or similar threats, which would be a repetition of their very origins on Tyria.2) Let their domains go to literal hell as demons from the Mists invade and devour a vast majority of their faithful followers' souls.3) Let their top lieutenants die as they struggle in vain to protect said faithfuls' souls.4) Let Dhuum, who seeks total entropy of the universe, break free unhindered except by a select few who had no hope of being able to face against the former god of death.

That seems like a pretty ass move. I mean, it's already an ass move as it is, but to do that ass move on top of lying about why they're doing the ass move is, like, super mega ultra ass move.

@"cptaylor.2670" said:But who knows, I honestly don’t think their writing goes that far ahead. The writing of last season in particular with Lazarus and Balthazar just left me thinking they make things up as they go and will quickly change things however it needs to fit where they want to take the game.

I think Mordremoth and Sylvari has good build up and might have been planned pretty well when the game came out, but I’m not sure any of this magic exploding Tyria with the death of too many dragons was ever a thing too many years back and they just decided they didn’t want to keep following a dragon centric plot.

Season 3 and Path of Fire's plot was planned out in the later stages of Heart of Thorns development, based on various dev comments. Their only plans with the gods' involvement ultimately stemmed from "they will return sometime" when first making GW2. The devs did claim the sylvari thing was planned from the beginning, however there's a ton of contradictions created from their attempts to dull suspicions about the sylvari's origins (in a bit of irony, people came to the correct conclusion for all the wrong reasons, ultimately).

The whole "two spheres" thing and dragons eating dead dragons' magic definitely seemed to be made for the upcoming plot and not since the beginning, since there's a lot of "new powers" that are... actually old. And none of the dragons sans Mordremoth and Kralkatorrik ever show signs of a second sphere.

[adormtil.1605]

Does anyone buys the crap about if gods and elder dragons fought they will destroy Tyria? Do you all remember how path of fire ended who and who fought and Tryia is still standing?I call bull on what the gods said their contradicted by the game itself. I have no idea why would they betray their own fellow god because he wanted to fight dragons. Guess what he would have been an great help in killing the dragons but instead the pact commander and an dragon had to kill him.Also I am pretty sure at the rate this goes at some point we are gonna ask is there anyone stronger then the pact commander among the gods? Can't wait for that moment.

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

@adormtil.1605 said:Does anyone buys the crap about if gods and elder dragons fought they will destroy Tyria? Do you all remember how path of fire ended who and who fought and Tryia is still standing?I call bull on what the gods said their contradicted by the game itself. I have no idea why would they betray their own fellow god because he wanted to fight dragons. Guess what he would have been an great help in killing the dragons but instead the pact commander and an dragon had to kill him.Also I am pretty sure at the rate this goes at some point we are gonna ask is there anyone stronger then the pact commander among the gods? Can't wait for that moment.You mean the same Path of Fire that constantly hammered in the fact that Balthazar had none of his godly power because all the other good took it away from him?

Not to mention Balthazar didn't even fight Kralkatorik, he just stood there while a big machine he built, and slapped Aurene into, shot a doom laser at the dragon.

[adormtil.1605]

You know that god of secrets that also got his powers taken yet if somebody did not took his powers the world would have been destroyed how does that work? Yeah the same thing with this guy also if he did not had any of his godly powers how was he able to summon his legendary dogs?

That being said Aurene is no less strong then an elder god and as you know she was freed to help the mega powerful pact commander who is stronger then any god or elder dragon and its so badass that death could not take him/her which is more then I can say about the elder dragons and the human gods who actually die.

Until the expansion the commander killed 2 elder dragons and yet Tyria is still standing so if the war god fought an killed elder dragons why would Tyria be destroyed?

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

@adormtil.1605 said:You know that god of secrets that also got his powers takenHe didn't though, he was just chained down using magic chains made by Balthazar that inhibited his power. Abbadon's power was never taken from him because they had no one to give it too, so they couldn't take his power as they needed a sutiable vessel for it. That is sort of the whole reason Kormir was able to ascend into a god, she took Abbadon's power, because Abbadon had never lost it.

[adormtil.1605]

@Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

@adormtil.1605 said:You know that god of secrets that also got his powers takenHe didn't though, he was just chained down using magic chains made by Balthazar that inhibited his power. Abbadon's power was never taken from him because they had no one to give it too, so they couldn't take his power as they needed a sutiable vessel for it. That is sort of the whole reason Kormir was able to ascend into a god, she took Abbadon's power, because Abbadon had never lost it.

Okay if the power of Balthazar was taken how was he able to open an portal and also summon his dogs and reignite that legendary weapon that Rylock had? This was before he got power from the 2 elder dragons. Also for one of his feats he was chained. Explain this how did an powerless god managed this?

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

@adormtil.1605 said:Okay if the power of Balthazar was taken how was he able to open an portal and also summon his dogs and reignite that legendary weapon that Rylock had? This was before he got power from the 2 elder dragons.Same way humans can summon the hounds of Balthazar, and open portals to the mists. Being stripped of his godly power doesn't mean he didn't have mortal powers left available to him. A human could have likely reignited the sword had they known how the sword works, which no one really does.

Also, we only ever see Balthazar summon his hounds after he absorbed a large amount of magic from the bloodstone.

[adormtil.1605]

@Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

@adormtil.1605 said:Okay if the power of Balthazar was taken how was he able to open an portal and also summon his dogs and reignite that legendary weapon that Rylock had? This was before he got power from the 2 elder dragons.Same way humans can summon the hounds of Balthazar, and open portals to the mists. Being stripped of his godly power doesn't mean he didn't have mortal powers left available to him. A human could have likely reignited the sword had they known how the sword works, which no one really does.

Its one thing to summons shade of the hounds of Balthazar and another to summon the actual hounds of Balthazar. Also did you ever met and mortal an such being who could open an portal to the mists alone? Did you ever met anyone who could ignite an godly sword while chained do you think any mortal can ignite any sword wile chained any kind of sword? Did you ever met someone who could levitate and take the form of someone else? Did you see any mortal summoning an set of armor period ever?

Have you seen any mortal do such an things?

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

@adormtil.1605 said:Its one thing to summons shade of the hounds of Balthazar and another to summon the actual hounds of Balthazar. Also did you ever met and mortal an such being who could open an portal to the mists alone? Did you ever met anyone who could ignite an godly sword while chained do you think any mortal can ignite any sword wile chained any kind of sword? Did you ever met someone who could levitate and take the form of someone else? Did you see any mortal summoning an set of armor period ever?

Have you seen any mortal do such an things?-Lord Odran from Guild Wars 1 lore was a powerful anarchist who was able to open up many portals to the mists, and even into the Hall of Heroes.-Both the Mursaat and Seers could levitate, as do many other species on Tyira.-Dervishes in Guild Wars 1 could summon entire outfits when they became avatars.-Mesmers frequently use their magic to disguise themselves as other people/things.

Not to mentionA. Balthazar only summoned his hounds after he had absorbed tons of magic from the bloodstone.B. Balthazar was only able to change his appearance due to the Mirror of Lyssa which she stole from Orr, it wasn't his own power, or even power he got from the bloodstone.

So yeah.... nothing we haven't seen before.

[adormtil.1605]

@Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

@adormtil.1605 said:Its one thing to summons shade of the hounds of Balthazar and another to summon the actual hounds of Balthazar. Also did you ever met and mortal an such being who could open an portal to the mists alone? Did you ever met anyone who could ignite an godly sword while chained do you think any mortal can ignite any sword wile chained any kind of sword? Did you ever met someone who could levitate and take the form of someone else? Did you see any mortal summoning an set of armor period ever?

Have you seen any mortal do such an things?-Lord Odran from Guild Wars 1 lore was a powerful anarchist who was able to open up many portals to the mists, and even into the Hall of Heroes.-Both the Mursaat and Seers could levitate, as do many other species on Tyira.-Dervishes in Guild Wars 1 could summon entire outfits when they became avatars.-Mesmers frequently use their magic to disguise themselves as other people/things.

Not to mentionA. Balthazar only summoned his hounds after he had absorbed tons of magic from the bloodstone.B. Balthazar was only able to change his appearance due to the Mirror of Lyssa which she stole from Orr, it wasn't his own power, or even power he got from the bloodstone.

So yeah.... nothing we haven't seen before.

What about igniting an divine sword or just any sword for that matter while chained? Who did you see do that?

Also I am gonna point out to you that while there where individuals who could do the things you listed was there any of them who could do them all?

[Oglaf.1074]

I don’t think him not regularly summoning his Hounds means he cannot do it whenever he wishes, but rather something left to the discretion of whatever developers were making the different encounters. He simply does it in that one fight because it called for adds, and doesn’t do it in later fights because they didn’t feel like adds were a good addition to those fights.

If you want s more in-game reason I guess you could theorize that he summoned the Hounds because he was himself busy at the time, and in all other fights he prefers to face you in single combat - which is what you’d expect from a god of war. He definitely seems to enjoy fighting you each time up until the final encounter when he realizes he is about to lose.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

@Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

@adormtil.1605 said:Does anyone buys the crap about if gods and elder dragons fought they will destroy Tyria? Do you all remember how path of fire ended who and who fought and Tryia is still standing?I call bull on what the gods said their contradicted by the game itself. I have no idea why would they betray their own fellow god because he wanted to fight dragons. Guess what he would have been an great help in killing the dragons but instead the pact commander and an dragon had to kill him.Also I am pretty sure at the rate this goes at some point we are gonna ask is there anyone stronger then the pact commander among the gods? Can't wait for that moment.You mean the same Path of Fire that constantly hammered in the fact that Balthazar had none of his godly power because all the other good took it away from him?

Not to mention Balthazar didn't even fight Kralkatorik, he just stood there while a big machine he built, and slapped Aurene into, shot a doom laser at the dragon.

On top of that, keep in mind that the thing about "the world ending" would be if a) the Elder Dragons are killed and The All falls out of balance (didn't happen but we've known it would since Season 3 and had hints it could since Season 2) or b) the gods are killed and either the gods' magic runs rampant and destroys Tyria (just as it nearly did when Abaddon was killed) or Elder Dragons eat their magic and become super powerful thus unstoppable (this technically did happen with Kralkatorrik eating former god Balthazar's stolen magic, thankfully Balthazar was not a full fledge god at that point anymore).

So Kormir's statements are actually 100% true, and two of the three possible outcomes actually got confirmed before meeting Kormir in PoF.

@adormtil.1605 said:You know that god of secrets that also got his powers taken yet if somebody did not took his powers the world would have been destroyed how does that work? Yeah the same thing with this guy also if he did not had any of his godly powers how was he able to summon his legendary dogs?

That being said Aurene is no less strong then an elder god and as you know she was freed to help the mega powerful pact commander who is stronger then any god or elder dragon and its so kitten that death could not take him/her which is more then I can say about the elder dragons and the human gods who actually die.

Abaddon never had his power taken. Kormir took his power upon Abaddon's death. The five gods merely locked his power away, not removed it. As for summoning his dogs - why would he need to be a god?

@adormtil.1605 said:Until the expansion the commander killed 2 elder dragons and yet Tyria is still standing so if the war god fought an killed elder dragons why would Tyria be destroyed?

You didn't play Season 3 did you. It was made painfully clear during Flashpoint (Episode 5), that the death of a third Elder Dragon will be the tipping point that ends Tyria. Not the death of one Elder Dragon, but of three. And we've killed two.

Taimi: I know, but magic is so out of whack. If one more goes, all of Tyria might just collapse in on itself.https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Heart_of_the_Volcano_(story)#Dialogue

@adormtil.1605 said:Its one thing to summons shade of the hounds of Balthazar and another to summon the actual hounds of Balthazar. Also did you ever met and mortal an such being who could open an portal to the mists alone? Did you ever met anyone who could ignite an godly sword while chained do you think any mortal can ignite any sword wile chained any kind of sword? Did you ever met someone who could levitate and take the form of someone else? Did you see any mortal summoning an set of armor period ever?

Have you seen any mortal do such an things?

With his power stripped, Balthazar was in the same position as Dhuum. Which is greater than mortals, but less than gods. Basically, a demigod. He was not without any magic at all like you seem to be thinking.

That said, none of what you said need to be godly actions. We do see mortals perform pretty similar stuff. For the case of the hounds, Temur and Tegan would have been near him no doubt, and would be summoned in a similar way that rangers call their pets. We see many stories and lore of mortals opening portals to the Mists - but keep in mind that this actions is far easier from within the Mists, where there are places like The Shadow Nexus (gw1wiki it) which is literally a place in the Mists meant for portals to worlds to be opened.

Sohothin once belonged to Balthazar, confirmed by a dev, so he would know how it worked, and it's theorized that when it landed near him he may have absorbed its magic (why would it extinguish on its own anyways?) just as he took magic from Taimi's Machine or the Bloodstone, so rather than igniting out of nothing, it's entirely possible he just returned its magic.

And as for levitation? Yeah. All the time. There are some spellcasting animations (ESPECIALLY in GW1) where the spellcaster levitates for a bit. Seers, mursaat, Khilbron, Jade Constructs, Wind Riders - they float 24/7.

@adormtil.1605 said:Also I am gonna point out to you that while there where individuals who could do the things you listed was there any of them who could do them all?

In all honesty? Yes. All mursaat could

• Hide their appearance entirely.
• Float 24/7
• Freely enter the Mists
• Command powerful magical constructs
• Manipulate souls

There's a reason why they were thought gods.

@"Oglaf.1074" said:I don’t think him not regularly summoning his Hounds means he cannot do it whenever he wishes, but rather something left to the discretion of whatever developers were making the different encounters. He simply does it in that one fight because it called for adds, and doesn’t do it in later fights because they didn’t feel like adds were a good addition to those fights.

If you want s more in-game reason I guess you could theorize that he summoned the Hounds because he was himself busy at the time, and in all other fights he prefers to face you in single combat - which is what you’d expect from a god of war. He definitely seems to enjoy fighting you each time up until the final encounter when he realizes he is about to lose.

Or because his hounds weren't magical constructs he created on a whim, but actual individual beings. And since we killed them, they had no body to "summon" hence why one of the metas involved imbuing their souls into Forged hound bodies.

[adormtil.1605]

So we basically have to ignore Kralkatorrik ? Also did we not tried to kill Primordius and Jormag while knowing that killing them will make Tyria fall on itself? Can't we kill Kralkatorrik and make our ally dragon take his magic?Also why was Balthazar weak to his own sword and if he is his why did he not extinguish it? Or better can't we just absorb all the magic into one dragon?

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

@adormtil.1605 said:So we basically have to ignore Kralkatorrik ?No, we just have to find a way to replace him before we kill himAlso did we not tried to kill Primordius and Jormag while knowing that killing them will make Tyria fall on itself?We never tired to kill Primordus or Jormag, in fact, we STOPPED Balthazar from doing that.Can't we kill Kralkatorrik and make our ally dragon take his magic?Having Aurene replace Kralkatorik is the likely path the story will take, but she isn't at that level yet.Also why was Balthazar weak to his own sword and if he is his why did he not extinguish it?Same reason Kralkatorik is weak to his own power, a lot of things a weak to themselves. One of the best ways to put out a fire, it to have another fire eat it.Or better can't we just absorb all the magic into one dragon?There has always been an implied upper limit to how powerful any one being can get, which is the reason why the Gods didn't just take Abbadon's power into themselves.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

@"adormtil.1605" said:So we basically have to ignore Kralkatorrik ? Also did we not tried to kill Primordius and Jormag while knowing that killing them will make Tyria fall on itself? Can't we kill Kralkatorrik and make our ally dragon take his magic?Also why was Balthazar weak to his own sword and if he is his why did he not extinguish it? Or better can't we just absorb all the magic into one dragon?

• No, as said in the ending of Path of Fire, we have to figure out a way to neutralize him without destroying Tyria.
• No. Once we found out that Tyria would die if another Elder Dragon dies, we turned to stopping Balthazar who was trying to use the machine to kill Jormag and Primordus (he stole the machine before we learned that it wouldn't be a good idea to kill another Elder Dragon, and it was Balthazar stealing the machine that led Taimi to run the simulation that showed her what would happen should another Elder Dragon die).
• No, because "too much magic" isnt' the sole issue. While heavy ambient magic is a problem (as it's causing things like the ley line anomalies and driving individuals insane (the bounties)), the problem is ultimately that The All is imbalanced, as shown in the simulation cinematic during Flashpoint and reaffirmed in The Way Forward. Simply putting the magic into a new container is insufficient. This is why we had to stop Balthazar, who planned to absorb all of the Elder Dragons' magic. We have to make Aurene an Elder Dragon before killing Kralkatorrik, by all evidence so far.
• Why Balthazar was weak to his own sword is, ultimately, unexplained and really just a big arse plot hole. I don't think it's meant to be that "Balthazar is weak to Sohothin" but rather "Sohothin is a powerful artifact and strong enough to damage a former god such as Balthazar".
• Per point four, as explained in The Way Forward, The All needs to be in balance. This would mean that there needs to be ideally six beings - four minimum - in order for the world to become stabilized again. We're already getting all the magic going into fewer beings, (as Zhaitan's and Mordremoth's magic has gone to the other Elder Dragons) and that's not solving anything - in fact, Taimi says at the end of Path of Fire that Kralkatorrik becoming more powerful is likely making The All even more imbalanced.