Menzies

[Orlando.8192]

I can't be the only one to have noticed that 'Balthazar' is clearly Menzies right?

1) The shadow army is Menzies' army (fissure of woe and DoA in gw1) as opposed to the Eternals commanded by Balthazar2) Balthazar would never use mercenaries and deception as his means: this is the guy who sets up the battles in the mists so that honorable warriors can fight honorable combat, he's not going to go around pretending to be a mursaat then use mercenaries when people start to realize the deception3) When 'Lazarus' first appears, he very boldly claims to the mass of white mantle that he is their god. Then later, in front of a bunch of other people including a lot of humans, he is 'revealed' to be 'Balthazar', and once again boldly claims to be their god. It's a bit of an obvious bluff.4) The bloodstones, created by the gods (including balthazar) to contain the magic created by Abaddon are being targeted. Balthazar would have no need of this kind of magic: he is a god, on par with Abaddon, and all the others, who were capable of simply creating magic, why would he have any reason to destroy something that he created, in order to gain power that he doesn't need?5) The five gods (not counting Kormir here because she's so new) have a very clear way of influencing the world when they feel like they should, and that is through empowering champions to do what they need done: when abaddon began to return, they brought forth avatars, and empowered champions, including Kormir, to be able to defeat Abaddon, and in that battle you see why they do this: when a god -actually- manifests, they are susceptible to being killed for real: though the magic of the gods is on its own level, such that it seems that it cannot actually be erased from the world (see Dhuum being sealed rather than killed, same with Abaddon), if they are defeated in their actual form, their powers can be transferred to another vessel: in abaddon's case, this was Kormir. Balthazar, by risking going to Tyria personally, goes against the other gods will in stepping away from the world, and puts himself in a position where the others are likely to act against him, and if they do, he could actually be killed when a new champion takes his power. This would be an incredibly stupid thing to do, and rather out of character for Balthazar.

[Farzo.8410]

No, it's Balthazar. No matter how you put it and twist things.

[Lagg.3960]

It's going to be:

a) Menzies, as you describedb) Actually Balthazar, but he got driven insane somehow by the dragons and will be restored to his former self by the end of PooFersorc) The last time I bought a Guild Wars product, if they decide to destroy the lore which exists since 2005

[morsdood.1987]

its Balthazar.

[BobbyT.7192]

@Lagg.3960 said:It's going to be:

a) Menzies, as you describedb) Actually Balthazar, but he got driven insane somehow by the dragons and will be restored to his former self by the end of PooFersorc) The last time I bought a Guild Wars product, if they decide to destroy the lore which exists since 2005

It's probably C

[Rognik.2579]

@Orlando.8192 said:4) The bloodstones, created by the gods (including balthazar) to contain the magic created by Abaddon are being targeted. Balthazar would have no need of this kind of magic: he is a god, on par with Abaddon, and all the others, who were capable of simply creating magic, why would he have any reason to destroy something that he created, in order to gain power that he doesn't need?This is the only point I have any issue with. Balthazar did not destroy the bloodstone; the White Mantle did that all on their own after tampering with it for centuries. All Balthazar did was absorb all that released energy into himself so it didn't leave a Tyrian sized hole in the planet. Now, even without revealing PoF spoilers, he had already said that his light had dimmed, which meant that he had lost his powers somehow. If he had decided to go rogue, he might've needed to draw on a pool of magic like that to recharge and get back to a reasonable power level.

[Natto.5819]

@Farzo.8410 said:No, it's Balthazar. No matter how you put it and twist things.

There's no reason for "Balthazar" to be chained up in the Mists. Menzies lost the fight, and most likely was banished, similar to how Dhuum was. When he was freed, he came to Tyria to get his power back. The only person strong enough to do the things that's been done in the real world is a god. But in this case, it would be Balthazar's brother pretending to be him.

Banished gods are not as strong as they once were.

[Almost in War.9326]

@Natto.5819 said:There's no reason for "Balthazar" to be chained up in the Mists.

There was a reason after all.

[Harper.4173]

If this is indeed the case OP - then bravo to the writers - they've actually gotten me fooled. I sadly don't hold any hope this is the case because I feel there's only so many times they can use the "a-ha, you thought it was X but in fact it was Y" trope.They already did it once - Lazarus is Balthazar. Do you think they can do it again on the same character? Like mask under a mask under a mask?

By this point we all know how the story ends - so I don't know if they can do a 180 on it now.

[Harper.4173]

If this is indeed the case OP - then bravo to the writers - they've actually gotten me fooled. I sadly don't hold any hope this is the case because I feel there's only so many times they can use the "a-ha, you thought it was X but in fact it was Y" trope.They already did it once - Lazarus is Balthazar. Do you think they can do it again on the same character? Like mask under a mask under a mask?

By this point we all know how the story ends - so I don't know if they can do a 180 on it now.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

Balthazar, being a rash and combative god as he has been since the days of Prophecies, did not learn the lesson that was Abaddon's rebellion and fall. The other gods did, even Kormir who wasn't there for it. Being the rash and combative individual he is - something far from new - he followed in Abaddon's footsteps unwittingly. He turns to deception because he learned that direct combat doesn't always merit a win - whether he learned this from his battle with the "traitor's shadow army" (as the Herald calls it) or from being defeated by the other gods is unclear (afaik - I've only gotten ~5/8ths of the way through PoF atm).

We do not know the fate of Menzies (afaik), but Balthazar is indeed Balthazar. Facing the Truth makes it rather obvious in a way that fits Prophecies' lore.

[Sariel V.7024]

@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:We do not know the fate of Menzies (afaik),

Don't we?

[RyuDragnier.9476]

@Sariel V.7024 said:

@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:We do not know the fate of Menzies (afaik),

Don't we?

A fate worthy of an evil god of war...becoming an INSTRUMENT of war.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

@Sariel V.7024 said:

@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:We do not know the fate of Menzies (afaik),

Don't we?

Unfortunately there are too many interpretations for that. Ranging from what happened to Menzies, to Balthazar planned to be Menzies' fate to be. One can even interpret that to be Menzies succeeding in becoming a god of war and fire.

[Menzies The Heretic.3415]

Balthazar isn't Menzies, I killed Balthazar.

[CaffeineMachine.9146]

I actually really like the Menzies theory. I was playing through parts of Nightfall, when I read an npc (I think it was in the Realm of Torment) commenting on how Menzies and Dhuum were supporting Abaddon against the gods. This being Dhuum, who had fallen already. This made me think that maybe in GW2, the Balthazar in PoF and LW3 might actually have been Menzies. If it was Menzies, he could be using the fall of a human god to incite Charr/Human war again, since the supposed illusion or impression that the humans' avatar of war is dead could be pretty demoralizing for humanity as a whole.

Though, one point to be made is that Kormir, who is supposed to be the goddess of wisdom and mystery, did acknowledge the antagonist as being Balthazar. But, is Kormir really Kormir? In GW1, she's taking into the realm of Torment, and even admits that she was the cause of the events in Nightfall (i.e. the reading of the Apocrypha). What happens if Kormir is kind of like Lyssa, being two-faced?

[Randulf.7614]

Menzies is a relative unknown to the wider playerbase. If you didnt play gw1 and specifically fissure of woe and I think some if the nightfall lore quests then you are out of the loop. He is not or barely mentioned anywhere in gw2 for him to be brought in this way, where you have a well established and widely known God actually be someone most havent heard of.

Balthazar was balthazar. The Gods would have known otherwise and his story is now finished. If menzies gets brought into the story, it will be via a new arc with the necessary build up to introduce him.

[Pax.3548]

It was balthazar, the biggest proof is that kormir herself told us the whole story, they stripped balthazar of his diviniy and chained him up in the mist, if he was menzies you would think five gods (and one of them being the goddess of ilussion) would notice and tell us right? besides the way balthy controlled fire crearly shows us that he was indeed the god of war and fire.

Just accept it, balthazar is dead

[Zhaveh.6801]

@Natto.5819 said:

@Farzo.8410 said:No, it's Balthazar. No matter how you put it and twist things.

There's no reason for "Balthazar" to be chained up in the Mists. Menzies lost the fight, and most likely was banished, similar to how Dhuum was. When he was freed, he came to Tyria to get his power back. The only person strong enough to do the things that's been done in the real world is a god. But in this case, it would be Balthazar's brother pretending to be him.

Banished gods are not as strong as they once were.

Also, he's calling Komir the goddess of truth a liar. Or are we just going to forget that conversation we had with her?

[Rubberduckgillespie.9854]

I really enjoyed path of fire, but killing Bathazar was the only thing I didn't love about it. I'd like nothing better than to see "good" Bathazar back in the game, and to have it revealed that we actually killed Menzies, but I don't think that's the case here.

[Tyson.5160]

Anet tends to add more story on certain villains post-mortem, so I wouldn’t be surprised if they added more to Balthazar’s story...

[Daishi.6027]

@Lagg.3960 said:It's going to be:

a) Menzies, as you describedb) Actually Balthazar, but he got driven insane somehow by the dragons and will be restored to his former self by the end of PooFersorc) The last time I bought a Guild Wars product, if they decide to destroy the lore which exists since 2005

Only PvP destroys lore.