Yet again, a PvP/WvW balance patch has affected PvE.

[Vagrant.7206]

@Gaile Gray.6029 said:Crystal Configuration: Eclipse: The stability portion of this trait will now be applied only upon successful hits of Corona Burst.

Surprise, this nerf intended for PvP is also applied to PvE. Because holosmith stability in PvE was a big problem. Looks like we end up being the QA again. @Ben Phongluangtham.1065, was this change for PvE intentional?

This change actually genuinely peeves me, because I use that stability to deal with environmental hazards in PvE. Now that is no longer the case, which is really frustrating.

[Rezzet.3614]

havent checked pve yet but its ridiculous if the stability nerf went through on pve as well PoF has passive CC objects ontop of all the enemy spam, heck hydras alone dump 3 meteors in a row

[stone cold.8609]

Yeah, I just tested in game in PvE and the nerf was also applied there. Very disappointing.

A question for the ANet Development team - I thought these changes were for PvP and WvW only. What happened here?

I'll report this over in the bug forum - hopefully the change wasn't intentional and merely an oversight.

[coglin.1496]

Yeah, as a WvW focused player that has had changes thrust upon my builds because of PvE, I feel your pain. They really should have segrgated all of these skill changes between game modes from day one.

[Angeels.3269]

Getting perma stab from spamming one skill on cd with corona wasn’t right in any gamemode. This is a change that should have gone through in the original PoF release. Also, they did state that the stab change would be game wide. People who actually looked at the notes were under no illusions about this.

[Vagrant.7206]

@"AngelsShadow.7360" said:Getting perma stab from spamming one skill on cd with corona wasn’t right in any gamemode. This is a change that should have gone through in the original PoF release. Also, they did state that the stab change would be game wide. People who actually looked at the notes were under no illusions about this.

Where in this thread did they suggest it would also apply to PvE? The whole point of this patch was a "PvP/WvW skill split."

And in what world is stability overpowered in PvE?

[Angeels.3269]

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@"AngelsShadow.7360" said:Getting perma stab from spamming one skill on cd with corona wasn’t right in any gamemode. This is a change that should have gone through in the original PoF release. Also, they did state that the stab change would be game wide. People who actually looked at the notes were under no illusions about this.

Where in

this thread

did they suggest it would also apply to PvE? The whole point of this patch was a "PvP/WvW skill split."

And in what world is stability overpowered in PvE?

The fact that it didn’t specify that it wasn’t a PvP/WvW only change... Like every other change only applicable to PvP/WvW was.

If you feel that boonspam is fine, so be it, but it fundamentally reduces any level of skill required across all gamemodes.

[Ghos.1326]

I think this was unintentional. They never made mention of it going into PvE. Maybe a bug, and a bad one at that. I do NOT think corona burst stab application should use the pvp version in pve. That's just a little much, and I agree with the OP 100%.

[Vagrant.7206]

@"AngelsShadow.7360" said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@"AngelsShadow.7360" said:Getting perma stab from spamming one skill on cd with corona wasn’t right in any gamemode. This is a change that should have gone through in the original PoF release. Also, they did state that the stab change would be game wide. People who actually looked at the notes were under no illusions about this.

Where in

this thread

did they suggest it would also apply to PvE? The whole point of this patch was a "PvP/WvW skill split."

And in what world is stability overpowered in PvE?

The fact that it didn’t specify that it wasn’t a PvP/WvW only change... Like every other change only applicable to PvP/WvW was.

If you feel that boonspam is fine, so be it, but it fundamentally reduces any level of skill required across all gamemodes.

The whole thread was about skills/traits being split from PvE. They didn't need to explicitly state "WvW + PvP only."

Also, one boon (stability) is not boonspam. All you need to do is change one skill to elixir b, and you can have more boons than this skill (including stability). This was one trait that happened to be particularly useful for non-combat situations in PvE so that you didn't have to change a skill for every environmental CC, and it's obnoxious that PvP balance changed that. This affects combat balance in PvE in no way, because holo is always in melee range anyway.

[stone cold.8609]

Well, I posted this in the bug forum and haven't had a reply. I'm still not sure if this was a bug or intentional.

[Lunateric.3708]

Afaik when they change functionality for particular skills they are unable to/is very hard to split that functionality too. I would like to know why we got the nerf on PvE too because it makes certain synergies harder to make happen (Overcharged Shot combo for example).

[Ben Phongluangtham.1065]

This isn't a bug. If a patch note didn't say PvP or WvW only, it was meant to be game-wide. This isn't the kind of change that we would split between game modes. Our rule of thumb for splits is that base functionality/behavior has to be the same. Numbers, recharge can be different.

In this specific case, we didn't like the type of play not requiring you to hit something encouraged, so it was changed game-wide.

[Coolguy.8702]

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:This isn't a bug. If a patch note didn't say PvP or WvW only, it was meant to be game-wide. This isn't the kind of change that we would split between game modes. Our rule of thumb for splits is that base functionality/behavior has to be the same. Numbers, recharge can be different.

In this specific case, we didn't like the type of play not requiring you to hit something encouraged, so it was changed game-wide.

Well deserved, corana burst made holo too faceroll for all modes, least now we'll have to think rather than just button mashing

[Vagrant.7206]

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:This isn't a bug. If a patch note didn't say PvP or WvW only, it was meant to be game-wide. This isn't the kind of change that we would split between game modes. Our rule of thumb for splits is that base functionality/behavior has to be the same. Numbers, recharge can be different.

In this specific case, we didn't like the type of play not requiring you to hit something encouraged, so it was changed game-wide.

In referring to PvE specifically, what about the use of stability for handling environmental CC? Was that just not a concern? Because on my holosmith in PvE, most of the time I'm in combat I will get that stability anyway. What this change functionally means though is that I can no longer use it deal with environmental hazards out of combat, which is kind of annoying, because it forces me to rapidly switch to elixir b for the temporary use before switching my skill back. In other words... this just creates an annoyance in PvE for no particular balance reason.

Also, why was it not explicitly stated in the "PvP/WvW SKILL SPLIT" thread that this functionality change would also apply to PvE? Seems like a bit of a miscommunication to me.

@Coolguy.8702 said:

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:This isn't a bug. If a patch note didn't say PvP or WvW only, it was meant to be game-wide. This isn't the kind of change that we would split between game modes. Our rule of thumb for splits is that base functionality/behavior has to be the same. Numbers, recharge can be different.

In this specific case, we didn't like the type of play not requiring you to hit something encouraged, so it was changed game-wide.

Well deserved, corana burst made holo too faceroll for all modes, least now we'll have to think rather than just button mashing

Nope, still getting spammed in all game modes. It's too powerful a skill not to do so. Plus, my point of its utility for PvE still stands -- that's the very opposite of a brainless use, it's taking advantage of stability to deal with environmental CC.

[orenwolf.1953]

@"Vagrant.7206" said:

Also, why was it not explicitly stated in the "PvP/WvW SKILL SPLIT" thread that this functionality change would also apply to PvE? Seems like a bit of a miscommunication to me.

The devs were very clear that splits would not affect the base functionality of skills. They were upfront about that. Your concerns aside (and as a thief I feel your pain on environmental CC), they were at least clear on this.

[Ghos.1326]

@"AngelsShadow.7360" said:Getting perma stab from spamming one skill on cd with corona wasn’t right in any gamemode. This is a change that should have gone through in the original PoF release. Also, they did state that the stab change would be game wide. People who actually looked at the notes were under no illusions about this.

I disagree with this. for pvp/wvw i can understand, because of the competitive nature of these game modes. In said game modes, you're fighting other players, so giving unfair advantages to them without them actually earning said advantage really hurts competitive pvp.

pve is a different story however. You're fighting WITH other players against the environment. So another player being able to stay up so that they can either A) continue doing damage or B) help you up if you fall is very advantageous for the player, and the team. I see no issue with keeping the stability gain function on use, rather than on skill hit, in pve game mode only. It helps the team without affecting any other players in a negative way.

EDIT: that smiley was not supposed to happen. it's supposed to be a B, followed by ) lol.

[coglin.1496]

@Ghos.1326 said:pve is a different story however. You're fighting WITH other players against the environment. So another player being able to stay up so that they can either A) continue doing damage or B) help you up if you fall is very advantageous for the player, and the team. I see no issue with keeping the stability gain function on use, rather than on skill hit, in pve game mode only. It helps the team without affecting any other players in a negative way.

From a balanced perspective you are absolutely incorrect. Balance is not designed around the enemy you fight in PVE it is balanced around a comparison with the other professions on a value level that they bring to each experience.

[Ghos.1326]

@coglin.1496 said:

@Ghos.1326 said:pve is a different story however. You're fighting WITH other players against the environment. So another player being able to stay up so that they can either A) continue doing damage or B) help you up if you fall is very advantageous for the player, and the team. I see no issue with keeping the stability gain function on use, rather than on skill hit, in pve game mode only. It helps the team without affecting any other players in a negative way.

From a balanced perspective you are absolutely incorrect. Balance is not designed around the enemy you fight in PVE it is balanced around a comparison with the other professions on a value level that they bring to each experience.

Yes, you are correct. I did a poor job saying exactly what you said. Thanks for that, @coglin.1496 .

[Aetatis.5418]

@Ghos.1326 said:

@"AngelsShadow.7360" said:Getting perma stab from spamming one skill on cd with corona wasn’t right in any gamemode. This is a change that should have gone through in the original PoF release. Also, they did state that the stab change would be game wide. People who actually looked at the notes were under no illusions about this.

I disagree with this. for pvp/wvw i can understand, because of the competitive nature of these game modes. In said game modes, you're fighting other players, so giving unfair advantages to them without them actually earning said advantage really hurts competitive pvp.

pve is a different story however. You're fighting WITH other players against the environment. So another player being able to stay up so that they can either A) continue doing damage or B) help you up if you fall is very advantageous for the player, and the team. I see no issue with keeping the stability gain function on use, rather than on skill hit, in pve game mode only. It helps the team without affecting any other players in a negative way.

EDIT: that smiley was not supposed to happen. it's supposed to be a B, followed by ) lol.

putting aside the earlier quotes.

there is one thing in that text... one very very good thing.you are playing WITH players. and if a couple of professions can not pull perma stab or perma stunbreak for a special scenario, then other professions might have to support their team with more than "dps only". (but tbh the scenario i speak of ... doesnt exist as far as i am concerned. we are just speaking of QoL tweaks)

ideally (!) it would promote variety (in builds, professions and a mix of dps and sustain)

[Lighter.5631]

who really cares man, it's pve not like you have to prestack stab nor like you can't hit any mob easily for stab..

[Atmaweapon.7345]

Faceroll in PvE apparently involves not hitting a stationary target with one of your most damaging attacks. Right.

We really don't care at all that Corona burst in particular, it's just that Corona burst was Engi's most convenient source of spammable stability for dealing with environmental hazards. If cheesing these with stability is braindead, I'm sure you'll gut Mesmers and the like for being able to just blink past said hazards too?

[Obtena.7952]

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@Coolguy.8702 said:

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:This isn't a bug. If a patch note didn't say PvP or WvW only, it was meant to be game-wide. This isn't the kind of change that we would split between game modes. Our rule of thumb for splits is that base functionality/behavior has to be the same. Numbers, recharge can be different.

In this specific case, we didn't like the type of play not requiring you to hit something encouraged, so it was changed game-wide.

Well deserved, corana burst made holo too faceroll for all modes, least now we'll have to think rather than just button mashing

Nope, still getting spammed in all game modes. It's too powerful a skill not to do so. Plus, my point of its utility for PvE still stands -- that's the very opposite of a brainless use, it's taking advantage of stability to deal with environmental CC.

I think you didn't understand. Ben said they didn't like effects that you can use by NOT hitting someone. He doesn't mention they don't like spamming effects. From what I can tell, in their eyes, it's fixed, even if you spam it every CD.

[Tinnel.4369]

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@"AngelsShadow.7360" said:Getting perma stab from spamming one skill on cd with corona wasn’t right in any gamemode. This is a change that should have gone through in the original PoF release. Also, they did state that the stab change would be game wide. People who actually looked at the notes were under no illusions about this.

Where in

this thread

did they suggest it would also apply to PvE? The whole point of this patch was a "PvP/WvW skill split."

And in what world is stability overpowered in PvE?

Nothing is truly "overpowered" in PvE, that's why PvP/WvW are full blown messes with no functionality split.