Feedback on the State of the Mesmer [merged]

[Vlerk.4761]

To be completely fair and unbiased, Mirage actually needs buffs.

[Daishi.6027]

@Vlerk.4761 said:To be completely fair and unbiased, Mirage actually needs buffs.

in PvE Power mirage could use some buffs.

PvP Mirage does it's role well enough and is pretty fair for the format no need for buffs really, just because it has more steps doesn't discredit how effective it is.

It shouldn't really be buffed or nerfed with the exception of EM if it's deemed to unhealthy to the format, and Condi across the board needs to be less effective.

[Wichidi.9281]

@Daishi.6027 said:

@Vlerk.4761 said:To be completely fair and unbiased, Mirage actually needs buffs.

in PvE Power mirage could use some buffs.

PvP Mirage does it's role well enough and is pretty fair for the format no need for buffs really, just because it has more steps doesn't discredit how effective it is.

It shouldn't really be buffed or nerfed with the exception of EM if it's deemed to unhealthy to the format, and Condi across the board needs to be less effective.

wow u dont even realize when ppl are using sarcasm. vlerk being sarcastic af xD

[Vagrant.7206]

@Yukio blaster.9082 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:The simple fact is that the mirage is ridiculously overpowered. The combination of frequent stealth, temp invulns, excessive mobility, CC's virtually on demand, stunbreaks with dodge, and ludicrous amounts of condi application?

They were difficult to pin down before, but this is a whole nother level. Their survivability is insane for the kind of damage and CC they can do.

....and then i follow a 10% health holo and now i'm dead 10k damage from 6 hits from mines .

Then you really don't know how to fight against holos huh?

Because if you weren't riding their (donkeys, dang censor), that wouldn't happen. All 3 mines from a dodge roll will only hit you if you are right on top of the engineer the whole time. In other words... don't follow us super closely if we're running away. Finish us at a range, or let condi do its work.

And yes, the minesweeper trait needs some fine tuning -- it should be less effective when engineer is >50% health so it can't be used offensively (like it currently can be if you dodge roll into your opponent), but that's a different matter.

[Yukio blaster.9082]

@Bish.8627 said:

@Yukio blaster.9082 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:The simple fact is that the mirage is ridiculously overpowered. The combination of frequent stealth, temp invulns, excessive mobility, CC's virtually on demand, stunbreaks with dodge, and ludicrous amounts of condi application?

They were difficult to pin down before, but this is a whole nother level. Their survivability is insane for the kind of damage and CC they can do.

....and then i follow a 10% health holo and now i'm dead 10k damage from 6 hits from mines .

@Vagrant.7206Then you really don't know how to fight against holos huh?

Because if you weren't riding their (donkeys, dang censor), that wouldn't happen. All 3 mines from a dodge roll will only hit you if you are right on top of the > > > > engineer the whole time. In other words... don't follow us super closely if we're running away. Finish us at a range, or let condi do its work.

And yes, the minesweeper trait needs some fine tuning -- it should be less effective when engineer is >50% health so it can't be used offensively (like it currently > > can be if you dodge roll into your opponent), but that's a different matter.Each dodge releases 3 very spread out mines, don't run over them and they won't hit you.Well when you are close to the target to try to finish him and he double dodge on you when being invulnerable how in the world i'm suppose to avoid the direct damage it's not even a condition that i can cleans !! and if you watch zan steam you will see him do that a lot (the double dodge burst back and forth)when he is invul by the passive.

[Flauvious.6195]

Lol power rev and ele are op but mirage is fine. The trolling is getting subtler.

[Rezzet.3614]

Mesmer nerf will be as follows

10% invulnerabilies duration reduction

80% damage and skill radius increase

[Yukio blaster.9082]

@Daishi.6027 said:Condi is the problem, nothing else. I'm not just talking about mirage either.

If you complain about power, then you should equally complain about back stab builds, and even more so complain about meditation guard/DH.

If you are complaining about back stabs, then get good. Half the game is anticipation and reads of skills with little to no tell, and mes has less ways to hide it while having to go melee with a ranged weapon, and on a longer c/d.

Condi mirage may be strong 1v1 but it is not OP for conquest, you don't get to cry OP when something is viable and effective for the format but does not single-handedly carry the game.

You want to counter it? Run strong condi bomb or Druid.

You want to call something OP and it be valid?Anything that can sit on point and 2v1 or has enough resources to contest 3v1 for a good duration. Or anything that is effective to stack 2-3 on a team when one would be enough to carry.Mirage falls under neither category.

Finally someone with a good and well organised and subjective point . and i my self as a condi mirage user ill be okey if they reduce the condition damage when reducing the cooldowns too cos if i miss my busts i have to wait a long time before bursting again and if they reduced the condition damage then the bursts won't be enough to pressure the opponent.

[sephiroth.4217]

@Yukio blaster.9082 said:

and i will list here the real broken classes:

• The one shot power ele .
• power rev

Did you type this with a strait face? I couldn't even read it without laughing

[Yukio blaster.9082]

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@Yukio blaster.9082 said:

and i will list here the real broken classes:

• The one shot power ele .
• power rev

Did you type this with a strait face? I couldn't even read it without laughing

i can understand you questioning about the power rev and i removed him from the list but you questioning about the FE ele is stupid from someone who know's that an actual ele can one shot any class without a passive .

[Vlerk.4761]

@Wichidi.9281 said:

@Daishi.6027 said:

@Vlerk.4761 said:To be completely fair and unbiased, Mirage actually needs buffs.

in PvE Power mirage could use some buffs.

PvP Mirage does it's role well enough and is pretty fair for the format no need for buffs really, just because it has more steps doesn't discredit how effective it is.

It shouldn't really be buffed or nerfed with the exception of EM if it's deemed to unhealthy to the format, and Condi across the board needs to be less effective.

wow u dont even realize when ppl are using sarcasm. vlerk being sarcastic af xD

I was preaching truth!!

[Yukio blaster.9082]

@"Demon.6743" said:Nobody says thief is OP, check this thief one shot.

exactly

[sephiroth.4217]

@Yukio blaster.9082 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@Yukio blaster.9082 said:

and i will list here the real broken classes:

• The one shot power ele .
• power rev

Did you type this with a strait face? I couldn't even read it without laughing

i can understand you questioning about the power rev and i removed him from the list but you questioning about the FE ele is stupid from someone who know's that an actual ele can one shot any class without a passive .

You obviously don't play Ele then or you would know that there isn't a single skill on the Ele set that can actually 1 shot someone, Power Rev is better than Power ele the only advantage Ele brings is condi removal and a higher skill floor...Also to invest into any form of substantial damage, we have to be extremely glassy but due to our lack of defenses, we get 1 shot by a Juvenile brown bear.... That means when we play a full glass bursty build, a tanky build can 1 shot us.

The build is extremely useless against any competent player or any thief that spams shadow shot, but it's a great at stomping new players who ignore the Ele in the room for the Scourge/Firebrand.

[Yukio blaster.9082]

@Eddbopkins.2630 said:Wow if you are having problems with one of the classes with the most in combative options in the game you need to pick another class....no class in the game has what mesmer has. Invulns, 12seconds evade sword skill, invis, mobility, stun brake on dodge, 10 secs staff teleport to stay outa mele range more then enough stun brakers. If you are having problema on mesmer then meser ismt the class for u...i suggest you play another class for a while and see how they do againsts your fabled weak mes.

I main fa ele and confusion is broken af......there needs to be an icd on it so it doesnt tick immediately after one another. As a fa ele when i go to air I, self hurt my self with atleast 3 ticks that take more then 1/2 my life. Then when i go to cleanse it with cleansing fire i hurt my self again hecause the damageing portion of cleansing fire happens 1st so i cant even clear the confusion without it hitting me for an absurd amount...when i see a condi mes running my way its either run or run. No point in fighting something that appears on ur screen every 2 seconds and dissapears, no point in fighting something you cant even tartget 3/4 of the time b.c of the constant invis and clone production.

luck you to have all the time to think about condi cleansing cos i don't have it when a fa ele burst me i'm insta downed .and who's saying i have problems with mesmer!!! it's the Anet planing to rework the mesmer that what i'm afraid from cos they may destroy it the same thing about condition damage from weapon skills and the shatters if they nerf them the condi chrono or core will became not viable at all when they already aren't a good chose compered to power and the condi mirage well be in the current situation of the condi chrono or core when basacly no decent player is playing them in any game mode was it sPVP or wvw or PVE raids/fractals .You as a ELE have many evade skill and invul with many combo fields for you and your teammates why you don't question that too or because it's your class .

[Rezzet.3614]

Mirage jus needs invuln reduction

[Yukio blaster.9082]

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@Yukio blaster.9082 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@Yukio blaster.9082 said:

and i will list here the real broken classes:

• The one shot power ele .
• power rev

Did you type this with a strait face? I couldn't even read it without laughing

i can understand you questioning about the power rev and i removed him from the list but you questioning about the FE ele is stupid from someone who know's that an actual ele can one shot any class without a passive .

You obviously don't play Ele then or you would know that there isn't a single skill on the Ele set that can actually 1 shot someone, Power Rev is better than Power ele the only advantage Ele brings is condi removal and a higher skill floor...Also to invest into any form of substantial damage, we have to be extremely glassy but due to our lack of defenses, we get 1 shot by a Juvenile brown bear.... That means when we play a full glass bursty build, a tanky build can 1 shot us.

The build is extremely useless against any competent player or any thief that spams shadow shot, but it's a great at stomping new players who ignore the Ele in the room for the Scourge/Firebrand.

one shooting don't mean using one skill its mostly a multitude of 3+ skills used on the same time to hit a target and make significant damage in a short period less than 1sec or may go to 2 sec and that is OP was that build glass or not on ele or on any class, simple because we aren't on a battle royal game when you head shot people but if ANET devs and the community see that is fine to exist then it's fine to me too, but asking instead to nerf condi mesmer when it wasn't been played seriously in a competitive way since launch of gw2 till mirage came then that stupid and selfish from bunch of noobs who activate skills when they have lots of confusion stacks on them .this game conditions have different uses and you should learn to deal with them not ask to nerf them poison for example i learned to cleans it first before healing, and burning i stay careful to insta cleans when the burn burst hit form burn gards for example the same thing about confusion it needs to be on 10 stacks + to do noticeable damage when not activating skills however activating skills with 12+stacks of confusion is stupid especialy for an ele with so many skills available to him torment in the other hand hurt you if you are moving all you have to do is to stop moving if a burst of torment hit you .what i would ask in your place is to have a ui more ez to notice when having hug stacks of a specific condition not nerf the mesmers condi . when the mesmer can't be even close to what a scourge can do and that in a AOE area.

[Daishi.6027]

@Wichidi.9281 said:

@Daishi.6027 said:

@"Vlerk.4761" said:To be completely fair and unbiased, Mirage actually needs buffs.

in PvE Power mirage could use some buffs.

PvP Mirage does it's role well enough and is pretty fair for the format no need for buffs really, just because it has more steps doesn't discredit how effective it is.

It shouldn't really be buffed or nerfed with the exception of EM if it's deemed to unhealthy to the format, and Condi across the board needs to be less effective.

wow u dont even realize when ppl are using sarcasm. vlerk being sarcastic af xD

It's hard to tell anymore.People legitimately already believe outlandish claims such as "Mirage needs to be nerfed." and it wouldn't be the first time I've heard someone argue that Mirage (in it's current state) needs a buff.

Sarcastic/trolling/or not I'd much rather set it strait.

[Velimere.7685]

@Ziggityzog.7389 said:Currently most broken classes : Condi Scourge, Power or condi mesmer, and Firebrand healbot and firebot.

You forgot Holosmith which invalidates all other power builds currently.

[ketzer.3158]

Mirage is not op. I really lulzed. Made my day.

[Cynz.9437]

@Bish.8627 said:

@Yukio blaster.9082 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:The simple fact is that the mirage is ridiculously overpowered. The combination of frequent stealth, temp invulns, excessive mobility, CC's virtually on demand, stunbreaks with dodge, and ludicrous amounts of condi application?

They were difficult to pin down before, but this is a whole nother level. Their survivability is insane for the kind of damage and CC they can do.

....and then i follow a 10% health holo and now i'm dead 10k damage from 6 hits from mines .

Each dodge releases 3 very spread out mines, don't run over them and they won't hit you.

So do not play melee in pvp. Got it. Any other amazing advice?

[Sandzibar.5134]

Dear Anet.

Disregard OP. Nerf into the ground.

Much love,

Your playerbase.

[Ithilwen.1529]

Mirage has won a few fights and so is thought to be OP. Anytime a Mesmer wins, they are assumed to be OP. Yes, it does require more attention and skill to fight a Mesmer than some other classes.

Sadly, the "exciting changes" may well turn out to be crippling nerfs.

[Lalainnia.3598]

Buff weaver, Mirage came into light after numerous spellbreaker nerfs mainly resistance uptime and a lot of bug fixes and buffs for mirage its clearly to strong.

[Vagrant.7206]

@Yukio blaster.9082 said:

@Bish.8627 said:

@Yukio blaster.9082 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:The simple fact is that the mirage is ridiculously overpowered. The combination of frequent stealth, temp invulns, excessive mobility, CC's virtually on demand, stunbreaks with dodge, and ludicrous amounts of condi application?

They were difficult to pin down before, but this is a whole nother level. Their survivability is insane for the kind of damage and CC they can do.

....and then i follow a 10% health holo and now i'm dead 10k damage from 6 hits from mines .

@Vagrant.7206Then you really don't know how to fight against holos huh?

Because if you weren't riding their (donkeys, dang censor), that wouldn't happen. All 3 mines from a dodge roll will only hit you if you are right on top of the > > > > engineer the whole time. In other words... don't follow us super closely if we're running away. Finish us at a range, or let condi do its work.

And yes, the minesweeper trait needs some fine tuning -- it should be less effective when engineer is >50% health so it can't be used offensively (like it currently > > can be if you dodge roll into your opponent), but that's a different matter.Each dodge releases 3 very spread out mines, don't run over them and they won't hit you.Well when you are close to the target to try to finish him and he double dodge on you when being invulnerable how in the world i'm suppose to avoid the direct damage it's not even a condition that i can cleans !! and if you watch zan steam you will see him do that a lot (the double dodge burst back and forth)when he is invul by the passive.

Here's a thought: Patience. Yes, I know the urge to kill that engineer right now (IT'S SOOOOO CLOSE). I've had it too. Just wait. Finish him after he's done flailing around trying to get you back, as he's burned both dodges to try and get you off of him, and all he has left is healing turret, if even that.

The whole idea behind the minesweeper dodge roll trait is the (in)famous "Don't tread on me." If you stick to the engineer like glue, you're going to get bitten. Don't be daft. Just be patient.

@Velimere.7685 said:

@Ziggityzog.7389 said:Currently most broken classes : Condi Scourge, Power or condi mesmer, and Firebrand healbot and firebot.

You forgot Holosmith which invalidates all other power builds currently.

It really doesn't.

S/D thieves seem to have fun crapping all over holos, power shatter mesmers can literally oneshot unprepared holos from stealth, good SB's can still overpower holos who don't know how to kite, DH is still very effective against holo.

As I have been oft repeating, the problem lies with the way meta (scourge) doesn't allow off builds to flourish. Many off power builds directly counter holo. But the presence of scourge makes them even more irrelevant than a condi engi.

@"Ithilwen.1529" said:Mirage has won a few fights and so is thought to be OP. Anytime a Mesmer wins, they are assumed to be OP. Yes, it does require more attention and skill to fight a Mesmer than some other classes.

Sadly, the "exciting changes" may well turn out to be crippling nerfs.

Call me nuts, but the application of 20+ stacks of confusion plus a myriad of cover condis in less than 3 seconds is beyond absurd. I have to spam every possible cleanse I have to prevent it from being lethal. And the best part is they can do it again in about 20 seconds from stealth. On my holo, I have to rely upon them making an error and catching them in one of my big bursts.

[Velimere.7685]

@Cynz.9437 said:

@Bish.8627 said:

@Yukio blaster.9082 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:The simple fact is that the mirage is ridiculously overpowered. The combination of frequent stealth, temp invulns, excessive mobility, CC's virtually on demand, stunbreaks with dodge, and ludicrous amounts of condi application?

They were difficult to pin down before, but this is a whole nother level. Their survivability is insane for the kind of damage and CC they can do.

....and then i follow a 10% health holo and now i'm dead 10k damage from 6 hits from mines .

Each dodge releases 3 very spread out mines, don't run over them and they won't hit you.

So do not play melee in pvp. Got it. Any other amazing advice?

My thoughts exactly. Hopefully they nerf Holosmith into the ground.