This is great

[Khaliel.3918]

Watching people try to defend their favorite (most of the time overpowered) specs is so funny. Happened it with scourges, happened with Holos and now it's chronomancer's turn. I can't wait for when Ele's/Rev's turn to be overpowered and the same people that complained and cried for months about literally every other class in the game try to prevent the nerfs. Content, homie.

[will de grijze jager.6594]

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@OriOri.8724 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@"Vieux P.1238" said:show me where on last patch list did mesmer get buffed that made it OP ..show me? any of you!

Defender;Damage: 452 (452*5=2260) (This means the base damage is over double that of pre-nerfed True Shot. Albeit with a lower damage coefficient.Maximum Damage Increase: 500%

Not disagreeing with anything you wrote, because a bunch of our phantasms do need to actually be balanced, but I really don't understand why you are comparing Defender with pre-nerf trueshot? Comparing a utility summon with a 50 second CD versus a weapon skill that had a 4 second CD is kind of strange honestly. Once you account for CDs, pre nerf trueshot was significantly more powerful than defender is right now. Even accounting for SotE, defender has a 30 second CD, 7.5x longer than pre-nerf trueshot, and 5 times longer than post nerf trueshot.

I'm not happy with iDefender or disenchanter right now. But to compare them to trueshot is more than a bit silly.

For two reasons. One; ArenaNets reasoning for tuning it down was because they didn't like "abilities capable of doing large portions of peoples health".Two; iDefender has the opportunity to hit 4 times during the timespan of 30 seconds, which is actually pretty close to the old True Shot.

Also, the person I quoted drew comparisons to DH during it's prime in another thread.

Mate the moment someone says it is a l2p issue is the moment you know you are right. They don't understand that you can dodge the first 2 burst but after that even warrior is out of options. No it is totally fine if you can burst someone with your 3 burst down....... and being able to out sustain a warrior(No it is totally fine part was sarcastic for the mesmer mains that don't understand that it is not).

[apharma.3741]

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@OriOri.8724 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@"Vieux P.1238" said:show me where on last patch list did mesmer get buffed that made it OP ..show me? any of you!

Defender;Damage: 452 (452*5=2260) (This means the base damage is over double that of pre-nerfed True Shot. Albeit with a lower damage coefficient.Maximum Damage Increase: 500%

Not disagreeing with anything you wrote, because a bunch of our phantasms do need to actually be balanced, but I really don't understand why you are comparing Defender with pre-nerf trueshot? Comparing a utility summon with a 50 second CD versus a weapon skill that had a 4 second CD is kind of strange honestly. Once you account for CDs, pre nerf trueshot was significantly more powerful than defender is right now. Even accounting for SotE, defender has a 30 second CD, 7.5x longer than pre-nerf trueshot, and 5 times longer than post nerf trueshot.

I'm not happy with iDefender or disenchanter right now. But to compare them to trueshot is more than a bit silly.

For two reasons. One; ArenaNets reasoning for tuning it down was because they didn't like "abilities capable of doing large portions of peoples health".Two; iDefender has the opportunity to hit 4 times during the timespan of 30 seconds, which is actually pretty close to the old True Shot.

Also, the person I quoted drew comparisons to DH during it's prime in another thread.

It’s still a really bad comparison, to be honest there isn’t really a comparison, closest would be a thief skill where you spam it and ini regen. There’s also something people aren’t accounting for in some cases, that many phantasms were completely useless before the rework as they often missed but still were strong, I’ve seen the old staff phantasms hit people for 10k or more when they have lots of conditions and just stood there, I’ve also seen strafing completely nullify a few of the phantasms too. Not saying it’s an excuse for being able to summon 6 phantasms all hitting for 4-7k damage just that you have to consider many of these hits aren’t extraordinary for any class, where most will have 2 or 3 skills that will do similar or higher damage numbers at 25 might.

As always it seems ANet massively underestimated how strong mesmer phantasm would be with some of the relic traits like chronophantasma and signet of ether left as they were. Those need a redesign though, if you want to hate on anyone hate on the lack of a proper balance patch to at least mesmer given it just received a major rework, a rework that was entirely needed I might add.

[mortrialus.3062]

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@OriOri.8724 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@"Vieux P.1238" said:show me where on last patch list did mesmer get buffed that made it OP ..show me? any of you!

Defender;Damage: 452 (452*5=2260) (This means the base damage is over double that of pre-nerfed True Shot. Albeit with a lower damage coefficient.Maximum Damage Increase: 500%

Not disagreeing with anything you wrote, because a bunch of our phantasms do need to actually be balanced, but I really don't understand why you are comparing Defender with pre-nerf trueshot? Comparing a utility summon with a 50 second CD versus a weapon skill that had a 4 second CD is kind of strange honestly. Once you account for CDs, pre nerf trueshot was significantly more powerful than defender is right now. Even accounting for SotE, defender has a 30 second CD, 7.5x longer than pre-nerf trueshot, and 5 times longer than post nerf trueshot.

I'm not happy with iDefender or disenchanter right now. But to compare them to trueshot is more than a bit silly.

For two reasons. One; ArenaNets reasoning for tuning it down was because they didn't like "abilities capable of doing large portions of peoples health".Two; iDefender has the opportunity to hit 4 times during the timespan of 30 seconds, which is actually pretty close to the old True Shot.

Also, the person I quoted drew comparisons to DH during it's prime in another thread.

Six times, actually. Chrono's run the trait in Illusions that spawns a Defender when they block or evade an attack.

[OriOri.8724]

@will de grijze jager.6594 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@OriOri.8724 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@"Vieux P.1238" said:show me where on last patch list did mesmer get buffed that made it OP ..show me? any of you!

Defender;Damage: 452 (452*5=2260) (This means the base damage is over double that of pre-nerfed True Shot. Albeit with a lower damage coefficient.Maximum Damage Increase: 500%

Not disagreeing with anything you wrote, because a bunch of our phantasms do need to actually be balanced, but I really don't understand why you are comparing Defender with pre-nerf trueshot? Comparing a utility summon with a 50 second CD versus a weapon skill that had a 4 second CD is kind of strange honestly. Once you account for CDs, pre nerf trueshot was significantly more powerful than defender is right now. Even accounting for SotE, defender has a 30 second CD, 7.5x longer than pre-nerf trueshot, and 5 times longer than post nerf trueshot.

I'm not happy with iDefender or disenchanter right now. But to compare them to trueshot is more than a bit silly.

For two reasons. One; ArenaNets reasoning for tuning it down was because they didn't like "abilities capable of doing large portions of peoples health".Two; iDefender has the opportunity to hit 4 times during the timespan of 30 seconds, which is actually pretty close to the old True Shot.

Also, the person I quoted drew comparisons to DH during it's prime in another thread.

Mate the moment someone says it is a l2p issue is the moment you know you are right. They don't understand that you can dodge the first 2 burst but after that even warrior is out of options. No it is totally fine if you can burst someone with your 3 burst down....... and being able to out sustain a warrior(No it is totally fine part was sarcastic for the mesmer mains that don't understand that it is not).

I never once called it a L2P issue. But thanks for not even bothering to read my comment before assuming I'm defending the current state of mesmer. Really adds a lot to the discussion

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" See @apharma.3741 's reply to your comment. Its still a bad comparison. To get 4 defenders out in that 30 second window requires you to either take 2 traitlines or to take a mandatory traitline along with 1 specific heal skill in addition to the phantasmal defender utility. That's significantly more investment than DH required for trueshot, which was nothing. Equipping the traitline and they had access to it. Yet for defender to just come close to the pre-nerf values of true shot over time would force us into 2 required traitlines and a specific heal skill. But the comparison does make a lot of sense given that the person you were replying to had drawn comparisons to pre-nerfed DH.

[storm.3120]

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:I dare you to name 1 Passive on core guard. Also, I really wish the forums would show peoples rating next to their name. Or have a top 100 exclusive forums where people actually know what they are talking about.If you need at least one then how about glacial heart autoproc. Aegis/retal on CC (i wonder if smiters boon on heal with more damage than intended count as passive for you?). As for 'passives' every class have them (iirc engi's posses highest amount of them) . You asked ;)As for 8k auto when you were dead , downedstates takes more damage , have screenshot of DJ doing 40k damage on downed necro (he had armor if you ask me)

[Xtrverz.4069]

People actually defending chrono still LUL

[Math.5123]

@Odik.4587 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:I dare you to name 1 Passive on core guard. Also, I really wish the forums would show peoples rating next to their name. Or have a top 100 exclusive forums where people actually know what they are talking about.If you need at least one then how about glacial heart autoproc. Aegis/retal on CC (i wonder if smiters boon on heal with more damage than intended count as passive for you?). As for 'passives' every class have them (iirc engi's posses highest amount of them) . You asked ;)As for 8k auto when you were dead , downedstates takes more damage , have screenshot of DJ doing 40k damage on downed necro (he had armor if you ask me)

I was talking about defensives, but yeah. I don't run the CC trait as I opt for the 20% damage when you got aegis instead. Guardians doesn't really need more stunbreaks. The smite Condi on heal is an active trait (as you choose when you want it to proc) so I have no idea why that is being brought up. But I'll give you the CC one.

I'd be happy to get rid of glacial heart. The same patch spinal shivers, ancient seeds, vent exhaust, reckless Dodge etc gets removed.

[storm.3120]

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:I dare you to name 1 Passive on core guard. Also, I really wish the forums would show peoples rating next to their name. Or have a top 100 exclusive forums where people actually know what they are talking about.If you need at least one then how about glacial heart autoproc. Aegis/retal on CC (i wonder if smiters boon on heal with more damage than intended count as passive for you?). As for 'passives' every class have them (iirc engi's posses highest amount of them) . You asked ;)As for 8k auto when you were dead , downedstates takes more damage , have screenshot of DJ doing 40k damage on downed necro (he had armor if you ask me)

I was talking about defensives, but yeah. I don't run the CC trait as I opt for the 20% damage when you got aegis instead. Guardians doesn't really need more stunbreaks. The smite Condi on heal is an active trait (as you choose when you want it to proc) so I have no idea why that is being brought up. But I'll give you the CC one.

I'd be happy to get rid of glacial heart. The same patch spinal shivers, ancient seeds, vent exhaust, reckless Dodge etc gets removed.

Yes , I'm with you to remove them as well :D . Of course you dont need more because you have 3 alrdy :DBut Smite condi is doing more damage than intended . And I'v seen a lot of people complaint about 'use something to get an effect' so mentioned just in case

[Ten.2617]

A defensive skill that hits 5 - 6 x harder than My Holosmith's skills :o

[Math.5123]

@JETWING.2759 said:A defensive skill that hits 5 - 6 x harder than My Holosmith's skills :o

Then I suggest you unequip that Knight amulet and start running something more offensive. Holosmiths do not lack damage

[Ten.2617]

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@JETWING.2759 said:A defensive skill that hits 5 - 6 x harder than My Holosmith's skills :o

Then I suggest you unequip that Knight amulet and start running something more offensive. Holosmiths

do not lack damage

I run full glass power static discharge variant ;) before last patch.Now i use the same variant on core, and got better results.

[Legatus.3608]

@JETWING.2759 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@JETWING.2759 said:A defensive skill that hits 5 - 6 x harder than My Holosmith's skills :o

Then I suggest you unequip that Knight amulet and start running something more offensive. Holosmiths

do not lack damage

I run full glass power static discharge variant ;) before last patch.Now i use the same variant on core, and got better results.

Nonononono you don't understand, it's totally expected for mesmer blocking abilities to do way more damage than other classes "attack" abilities. Please understand.

[Legatus.3608]

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:Considering only 2 out of the 4 attacks from the Avenger landed a critical hit on me. The defensive BLOCKING ABILITY "only" hit me for a whopping 19321 damage.This would be somewhat okay if this wasn't a defensive ability. If it didnt couple 19k damage with a 3 second block.

If they all would've crit the damage would output would've been increased to 26876. In 1 skill, which is once again. A BLOCK

@Arenanet still waiting for an update.

Edit: I used my dodges to dodge the Defenders / Disenchanters so don't bother coming with kitten like "just dodge". Because in reality, you should not have to dodge a block.

"Furry Roleplayer"

[zoopop.5630]

These try hard Mesmer main still defending the class ?

Holy crap ?

[Arkaile.5604]

@zoopop.5630 It's a hilarious thing to watch. Odik in particular holds a special place in my cold heart for posting 20 replies in the same day on that mesmer megathread.

[DeadlySynz.3471]

@Uncle Dalty.8327 said:

@"Shaogin.2679" said:So this comes from the "Disenchanter" Chronomancer build. A build that uses the Paladin amulet. A build described on MetaBattle as "A tanky PvP chronomancer build primarily made to 1v1." But this tanky build is doing stuff such as this:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

Considering only 2 out of the 4 attacks from the Avenger landed a critical hit on me. The defensive

BLOCKING ABILITY

"only" hit me for a whopping 19321 damage.This would be somewhat okay if this wasn't a defensive ability. If it didnt couple 19k damage with a 3 second block.

If they all would've crit the damage would output would've been increased to 26876. In 1 skill, which is once again.

A BLOCK

@Arenanet still waiting for an update.

Edit: I used my dodges to dodge the Defenders / Disenchanters so don't bother coming with kitten like "just dodge". Because in reality, you should not have to dodge a block.

And then of course Mesmer mains be like:

@"Vieux P.1238" said:You want to nerf Chrono becuz what? becuz it counters your build. You need to tweak your build instead of asking for a nerf. Cuz Chrono is way not overpowered. Your problem is you can't deal with a Boon removal build. Weird, i can with your build despite it counters my guardian as much as you. You just want it easy instead of looking for some special tweak that will help you out. I'm sorry i can't follow your reasoning & not going to agree with you cuz your build can't deal with it.

Now as a Power Reaper I don't have issues with these Chronomancers since I have unblockable AoE damage and enough pressure and cc to take down a bunker solo, but see I pay for that damage by being super squishy. It is never cool to put out high damage AND be tanky. Didn't we nerf Scrapper several times for stuff like this? And trying to deny a problem exists despite it being blatantly obvious in the community and insulting people that are simply discussing an issue is a horrible way to convince anyone that you are anything more than a biased Mesmer main just desperately trying to avoid nerfs.

I don't think it's the mesmer MAINS who are saying that mes isn't broken.... it's the bandwagon riders. Any mesmer mains are proposing detailed(ish) solutions on how to tone down mes without gutting the class completely.

Problem is, every other class has been gutted, so the mesmer needs far more than "deatailed(ish) solutions to town down". It needs heavy hit on nearly everything across the board, to the point that all mesmer players (including those tops in PvP), have to question whether the class is worth playing anymore. Because that is essentially has happened to other classes.

[Poelala.2830]

All I did when I saw this was laugh. Not because your woes against Mesmer is unjustified, but because Mesmer has been OP for years and it hasn’t been balanced ever. Just funny how anet will ignore this.

[Master Ketsu.4569]

@Vieux P.1238 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Vieux P.1238 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Vieux P.1238 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Vieux P.1238 said:Mesmer prolly running on the disenchanter meta.. But what was the defender running on? I mean he got hit with 19321 damage. You can't be hit by 19321 damage unless your running some kind of glassy build.

I was on Valkyrie Hammer Guardian.

That's the crit condition build, right?

https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Guardian_-_Radiant_Hammer

you do know your counter is boon removal builds?

Which is why I'm dodging the Disenchanters in order to keep prot / retal / fury / might up ;)

Well if you keep at it, you'l build up your skill well anoth to actually well time everything like i do. I main a mesmer & mesmers for me is not a problem cuz i learned the hard way how to manage & time my dodges & defenses as well as my offenses. It's called skill playing. I bet in a couple of weeks you'l get to that level as well.

Yes. One day, I may improve.

& your complaining?Higher skill floor builds get stronger the higher your MMR gets.

[mortrialus.3062]

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:Short bow #5 Will do 3 in a row just like jaunt except you still have possibly 2 full weapon sets that are not on CD. Thief just wasted all inianitve and has nothing left on either weapon set... INB4 SB #5 can port up cliffs and stairs.U know jaunt range and its has 20s cd on charge? Still dont understand how jaunt is better than sb5 lmao

• Can use while CC'd
• Deals damage and generates a clone which can be used for attacks or defense.
• Doesn't draw from a resource pool like initiative, which would interfere with your attack skills.It only generates a clone if the Self Deception trait is taken.

[storm.3120]

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:Short bow #5 Will do 3 in a row just like jaunt except you still have possibly 2 full weapon sets that are not on CD. Thief just wasted all inianitve and has nothing left on either weapon set... INB4 SB #5 can port up cliffs and stairs.U know jaunt range and its has 20s cd on charge? Still dont understand how jaunt is better than sb5 lmao

• Can use while CC'd
• Deals damage and generates a clone which can be used for attacks or defense.
• Doesn't draw from a resource pool like initiative, which would interfere with your attack skills.It only generates a clone if the Self Deception trait is taken.

Thats also does pathetic damage but who cares actually

[zoopop.5630]

@Odik.4587 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:Short bow #5 Will do 3 in a row just like jaunt except you still have possibly 2 full weapon sets that are not on CD. Thief just wasted all inianitve and has nothing left on either weapon set... INB4 SB #5 can port up cliffs and stairs.U know jaunt range and its has 20s cd on charge? Still dont understand how jaunt is better than sb5 lmao

• Can use while CC'd
• Deals damage and generates a clone which can be used for attacks or defense.
• Doesn't draw from a resource pool like initiative, which would interfere with your attack skills.It only generates a clone if the Self Deception trait is taken.

Thats also does pathetic damage but who cares actually

because CC isn't important at all thought right? No wait you just keep posting in EVERY mesmer thread possible LMFAO. The more clone/illusion out the more chances to use their F1-f4 giving them any chance to interrupt or avoid some damage.

but nvm it's pathetic because that doesn't get used at all on a mesmer.

[mortrialus.3062]

@zoopop.5630 said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:Short bow #5 Will do 3 in a row just like jaunt except you still have possibly 2 full weapon sets that are not on CD. Thief just wasted all inianitve and has nothing left on either weapon set... INB4 SB #5 can port up cliffs and stairs.U know jaunt range and its has 20s cd on charge? Still dont understand how jaunt is better than sb5 lmao

• Can use while CC'd
• Deals damage and generates a clone which can be used for attacks or defense.
• Doesn't draw from a resource pool like initiative, which would interfere with your attack skills.It only generates a clone if the Self Deception trait is taken.

Thats also does pathetic damage but who cares actually

because CC isn't important at all thought right? No wait you just keep posting in EVERY mesmer thread possible LMFAO. The more clone/illusion out the more chances to use their F1-f4 giving them any chance to interrupt or avoid some damage.

but nvm it's pathetic because that doesn't get used at all on a mesmer.

I don't know what in the world you're talking about, but Jaunt doesn't CC.

[Hylo.1968]

@zoopop.5630 said:F1-f4

F1 doesn't help you while cc'ed ( unless you have blind on it taken)F4 has 50s cooldown

[Legatus.3608]

@Vieux P.1238 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

Defender;Damage: 452 (452*5=2260) (This means the base damage is over double that of pre-nerfed True Shot. Albeit with a lower damage coefficient.Maximum Damage Increase: 500%

(OMG..GODMODE ALERT!) Dosent most Classes do more damage on there AA like idk Dagger thief or Guard Hammer?

You think thief auto attack does 20k or higher? ROFL

When using weapon skill 1 with a sword, increased the damage of the mesmer's first two attacks by 7%. Increased the damage of the final sword attack by 11% against foes with boons and by 51% against foes with no boons.

( That's not a buff that's putting our AA back into the same level as all other classes. & We still not up to par)

Didn't that guy just show a pic of an 8k auto from a chrono? Rofl, that's how much my backstab usually does guy