zealex.9410 Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 @vesica tempestas.1563 said:@zealex.9410 said:@"Raizel.8175" said:The only problem I see with "PvE" legendary armor is the missing accessibility of raid-content. GW2 is basically the MMORPG with the least accessible endgame-content I've ever played (and that's a lot after playing MMORPGs for more than a decade).Thats not true. I had a harder time getting into the hardest contemt in wow and in ff14 amd i didnt really bother with eso.actually you mean wow raid content at harder/hardest difficulty level, all raid content is accessible in WOW, you simply pick the level that suits your time commitments and tolerance to abusive behavior. GW2 has no concept of difficulty level, so its high level rote play in highly coordinated groups or the highway, i.e the majority of the casual player base has no access to meaningful 10 man casual instances. Create difficulty levels, different achievements and slightly tweaked legendary gear and its win win and content for all.I compaire the hardest of wow to the hardest of gw2. Also lfr in wow is just there for ppl to see the raid, it doesnt teach you the raid nor rewards you raid exclusive gear or the best gear but through longer grind. Giving the raid exlcusive rewards is not a win win situation and the base gw2 lvl is easy enough thats not an insane commitment to get good at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bladestrom.6425 Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 @zealex.9410 said:@vesica tempestas.1563 said:@zealex.9410 said:@"Raizel.8175" said:The only problem I see with "PvE" legendary armor is the missing accessibility of raid-content. GW2 is basically the MMORPG with the least accessible endgame-content I've ever played (and that's a lot after playing MMORPGs for more than a decade).Thats not true. I had a harder time getting into the hardest contemt in wow and in ff14 amd i didnt really bother with eso.actually you mean wow raid content at harder/hardest difficulty level, all raid content is accessible in WOW, you simply pick the level that suits your time commitments and tolerance to abusive behavior. GW2 has no concept of difficulty level, so its high level rote play in highly coordinated groups or the highway, i.e the majority of the casual player base has no access to meaningful 10 man casual instances. Create difficulty levels, different achievements and slightly tweaked legendary gear and its win win and content for all.I compaire the hardest of wow to the hardest of gw2. Also lfr in wow is just there for ppl to see the raid, it doesnt teach you the raid nor rewards you raid exclusive gear or the best gear but through longer grind. Giving the raid exlcusive rewards is not a win win situation and the base gw2 lvl is easy enough thats not an insane commitment to get good at it.lfr is indeed there in WOW so people can see/play the content, its also there for those that don't want to commit to the time involved in the rote memorization and drama required for hardest level encounters (blizzard callsed this out years ago after tbc) Giving the raid difficulty levels unique rewards is absolutely win win, those that have hardest rewards gear don't have their work diminished etc etc. Hard level has 1 set, normal another. No one loses out aside those trying to prevent others from accessing content for selfish reasons, and everyone gets 10 man content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raizel.8175 Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 @zealex.9410 said:@"Raizel.8175" said:The only problem I see with "PvE" legendary armor is the missing accessibility of raid-content. GW2 is basically the MMORPG with the least accessible endgame-content I've ever played (and that's a lot after playing MMORPGs for more than a decade).Thats not true. I had a harder time getting into the hardest contemt in wow and in ff14 amd i didnt really bother with eso.The MMORPG-world doesn't only consist of GW2, WoW and FF XIV.I've played enough games that are far harder than GW2. Hell, the last MMORPG I've played on a serious level had a huge gear-treadmill, a public PvE-Ranks-Website where you could upload your dps-logs (in which you could see a players full rotation in detal, the percentage of each skill in relation to the total damage, etc.) and an ID-System with a limited amount of IDs per dungeon per week (meaning if you fail stuff, that ID is lost) and people weren't even remotely as toxic as the common raiding-community in GW2 even though the endgame-content there was harder than what GW2 offers.Fact is that this game suffers from various bad design-choices which may seem good for a single-player-game, but are devastating for a MMORPG. This game has basically the least inclusive community ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zealex.9410 Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 @vesica tempestas.1563 said:@zealex.9410 said:@vesica tempestas.1563 said:@zealex.9410 said:@"Raizel.8175" said:The only problem I see with "PvE" legendary armor is the missing accessibility of raid-content. GW2 is basically the MMORPG with the least accessible endgame-content I've ever played (and that's a lot after playing MMORPGs for more than a decade).Thats not true. I had a harder time getting into the hardest contemt in wow and in ff14 amd i didnt really bother with eso.actually you mean wow raid content at harder/hardest difficulty level, all raid content is accessible in WOW, you simply pick the level that suits your time commitments and tolerance to abusive behavior. GW2 has no concept of difficulty level, so its high level rote play in highly coordinated groups or the highway, i.e the majority of the casual player base has no access to meaningful 10 man casual instances. Create difficulty levels, different achievements and slightly tweaked legendary gear and its win win and content for all.I compaire the hardest of wow to the hardest of gw2. Also lfr in wow is just there for ppl to see the raid, it doesnt teach you the raid nor rewards you raid exclusive gear or the best gear but through longer grind. Giving the raid exlcusive rewards is not a win win situation and the base gw2 lvl is easy enough thats not an insane commitment to get good at it.lfr is indeed there in WOW so people can see/play the content, its also there for those that don't want to commit to the time involved in the rote memorization and drama required for hardest level encounters (blizzard callsed this out years ago after tbc) Giving the raid difficulty levels unique rewards is absolutely win win, those that have hardest rewards gear don't have their work diminished etc etc. Hard level has 1 set, normal another. No one loses out aside those trying to prevent others from accessing content for selfish reasons, and everyone gets 10 man content.Wow's main focus are the raid so giving ppl way to experience it is key.Yeah bit its not the same, nor is it as detailed and good looking. U get the best reward from the hardest mode, this aplies to wow as well and that game focushes on raids.Gw2 doesnt need to give its raid armor to less demanding modes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zealex.9410 Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 @Raizel.8175 said:@zealex.9410 said:@Raizel.8175 said:The only problem I see with "PvE" legendary armor is the missing accessibility of raid-content. GW2 is basically the MMORPG with the least accessible endgame-content I've ever played (and that's a lot after playing MMORPGs for more than a decade).Thats not true. I had a harder time getting into the hardest contemt in wow and in ff14 amd i didnt really bother with eso.The MMORPG-world doesn't only consist of GW2, WoW and FF XIV.I've played enough games that are far harder than GW2. Hell, the last MMORPG I've played on a serious level had a huge gear-treadmill, a public PvE-Ranks-Website where you could upload your dps-logs (in which you could see a players full rotation in detal, the percentage of each skill in relation to the total damage, etc.) and an ID-System with a limited amount of IDs per dungeon per week (meaning if you fail stuff, that ID is lost) and people weren't even remotely as toxic as the common raiding-community in GW2 even though the endgame-content there was harder than what GW2 offers.Its not the designs fault that some ppl are abnormally out of touch with the game the content and set their own insane requirememt. Simple because some ppl set insane requirement doesnt mean they know better. This aplies to most mmos if not all. If you attempt to pug your way through endgame u will always get the worst experience. Its a choice.Fact is that this game suffers from various bad design-choices which may seem good for a single-player-game, but are devastating for a MMORPG. This game has basically the least inclusive community ever.Nope. This aproach is the best for an mmo. It requires communication and player interaction, something that hystorically easier modes and content doesnt do well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashen.2907 Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 @"Raizel.8175" said:The only problem I see with "PvE" legendary armor is the missing accessibility of raid-content. GW2 is basically the MMORPG with the least accessible endgame-content I've ever played (and that's a lot after playing MMORPGs for more than a decade).I am honestly curious as to what you mean by this.Currently one can be outfitted with gear sufficient for raiding and fractals, in GW2, within seconds of reaching max level. Getting to current top tier raids and the like in some other games Ive seen, or heard of, involves a lengthy gearing up process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bladestrom.6425 Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 @zealex.9410 said:@vesica tempestas.1563 said:@zealex.9410 said:@vesica tempestas.1563 said:@zealex.9410 said:@"Raizel.8175" said:The only problem I see with "PvE" legendary armor is the missing accessibility of raid-content. GW2 is basically the MMORPG with the least accessible endgame-content I've ever played (and that's a lot after playing MMORPGs for more than a decade).Thats not true. I had a harder time getting into the hardest contemt in wow and in ff14 amd i didnt really bother with eso.actually you mean wow raid content at harder/hardest difficulty level, all raid content is accessible in WOW, you simply pick the level that suits your time commitments and tolerance to abusive behavior. GW2 has no concept of difficulty level, so its high level rote play in highly coordinated groups or the highway, i.e the majority of the casual player base has no access to meaningful 10 man casual instances. Create difficulty levels, different achievements and slightly tweaked legendary gear and its win win and content for all.I compaire the hardest of wow to the hardest of gw2. Also lfr in wow is just there for ppl to see the raid, it doesnt teach you the raid nor rewards you raid exclusive gear or the best gear but through longer grind. Giving the raid exlcusive rewards is not a win win situation and the base gw2 lvl is easy enough thats not an insane commitment to get good at it.lfr is indeed there in WOW so people can see/play the content, its also there for those that don't want to commit to the time involved in the rote memorization and drama required for hardest level encounters (blizzard callsed this out years ago after tbc) Giving the raid difficulty levels unique rewards is absolutely win win, those that have hardest rewards gear don't have their work diminished etc etc. Hard level has 1 set, normal another. No one loses out aside those trying to prevent others from accessing content for selfish reasons, and everyone gets 10 man content.Wow's main focus are the raid so giving ppl way to experience it is key.Yeah bit its not the same, nor is it as detailed and good looking. U get the best reward from the hardest mode, this aplies to wow as well and that game focushes on raids.Gw2 doesnt need to give its raid armor to less demanding modes.that is NOT the point of gaming in GW2, this is a WOW raiding mentality where EVERYTHING is about gear and being better than the man next door. GW2 isn't giving its reward to less demanding modes, its about giving 10 man content to the majority of the player base, and giving Legendary gear as a reward system - how 'demanding' a thing is irrelevant, that's like saying you shouldn't get access to a legendary weapon after a year of crafting/gathering because its not demanding. The fact is those arguing against normal mode/legendary armour are doing it purely for selfish reasons, they do not want others to get it because in their head it makes their gear feel less special, not a good outlook on life or particularly generous of spirit either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laila Lightness.8742 Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 But i want only outside raids raiders should not have then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zealex.9410 Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 @vesica tempestas.1563 said:@zealex.9410 said:@vesica tempestas.1563 said:@zealex.9410 said:@vesica tempestas.1563 said:@zealex.9410 said:@"Raizel.8175" said:The only problem I see with "PvE" legendary armor is the missing accessibility of raid-content. GW2 is basically the MMORPG with the least accessible endgame-content I've ever played (and that's a lot after playing MMORPGs for more than a decade).Thats not true. I had a harder time getting into the hardest contemt in wow and in ff14 amd i didnt really bother with eso.actually you mean wow raid content at harder/hardest difficulty level, all raid content is accessible in WOW, you simply pick the level that suits your time commitments and tolerance to abusive behavior. GW2 has no concept of difficulty level, so its high level rote play in highly coordinated groups or the highway, i.e the majority of the casual player base has no access to meaningful 10 man casual instances. Create difficulty levels, different achievements and slightly tweaked legendary gear and its win win and content for all.I compaire the hardest of wow to the hardest of gw2. Also lfr in wow is just there for ppl to see the raid, it doesnt teach you the raid nor rewards you raid exclusive gear or the best gear but through longer grind. Giving the raid exlcusive rewards is not a win win situation and the base gw2 lvl is easy enough thats not an insane commitment to get good at it.lfr is indeed there in WOW so people can see/play the content, its also there for those that don't want to commit to the time involved in the rote memorization and drama required for hardest level encounters (blizzard callsed this out years ago after tbc) Giving the raid difficulty levels unique rewards is absolutely win win, those that have hardest rewards gear don't have their work diminished etc etc. Hard level has 1 set, normal another. No one loses out aside those trying to prevent others from accessing content for selfish reasons, and everyone gets 10 man content.Wow's main focus are the raid so giving ppl way to experience it is key.Yeah bit its not the same, nor is it as detailed and good looking. U get the best reward from the hardest mode, this aplies to wow as well and that game focushes on raids.Gw2 doesnt need to give its raid armor to less demanding modes.that is NOT the point of gaming in GW2, this is a WOW raiding mentality where EVERYTHING is about gear and being better than the man next door. GW2 isn't giving its reward to less demanding modes, its about giving 10 man content to the majority of the player base, and giving Legendary gear as a reward system - how 'demanding' a thing is irrelevant, that's like saying you shouldn't get access to a legendary weapon after a year of crafting/gathering because its not demanding. I didnt speak about being better than someone else domt twist my words. Also thats frankly not the point of raids. Their point is to have a certain playstyle and follow a mindset.And yeah someone shouldnt get the acess to the same raid legenxary just because he crafted for a year.Diff legendary set? Sure why not im not argueing about legendary tiers being locked to raids. Im talking about the specific armor being tied to what its made for. Namely challenging content, easier content is not challenging thetefor it shouldnt reward the same things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zealex.9410 Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 @Laila Lightness.8742 said:But i want only outside raids raiders should not have then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bladestrom.6425 Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 @zealex.9410 said:@vesica tempestas.1563 said:@zealex.9410 said:@vesica tempestas.1563 said:@zealex.9410 said:@vesica tempestas.1563 said:@zealex.9410 said:@"Raizel.8175" said:The only problem I see with "PvE" legendary armor is the missing accessibility of raid-content. GW2 is basically the MMORPG with the least accessible endgame-content I've ever played (and that's a lot after playing MMORPGs for more than a decade).Thats not true. I had a harder time getting into the hardest contemt in wow and in ff14 amd i didnt really bother with eso.actually you mean wow raid content at harder/hardest difficulty level, all raid content is accessible in WOW, you simply pick the level that suits your time commitments and tolerance to abusive behavior. GW2 has no concept of difficulty level, so its high level rote play in highly coordinated groups or the highway, i.e the majority of the casual player base has no access to meaningful 10 man casual instances. Create difficulty levels, different achievements and slightly tweaked legendary gear and its win win and content for all.I compaire the hardest of wow to the hardest of gw2. Also lfr in wow is just there for ppl to see the raid, it doesnt teach you the raid nor rewards you raid exclusive gear or the best gear but through longer grind. Giving the raid exlcusive rewards is not a win win situation and the base gw2 lvl is easy enough thats not an insane commitment to get good at it.lfr is indeed there in WOW so people can see/play the content, its also there for those that don't want to commit to the time involved in the rote memorization and drama required for hardest level encounters (blizzard callsed this out years ago after tbc) Giving the raid difficulty levels unique rewards is absolutely win win, those that have hardest rewards gear don't have their work diminished etc etc. Hard level has 1 set, normal another. No one loses out aside those trying to prevent others from accessing content for selfish reasons, and everyone gets 10 man content.Wow's main focus are the raid so giving ppl way to experience it is key.Yeah bit its not the same, nor is it as detailed and good looking. U get the best reward from the hardest mode, this aplies to wow as well and that game focushes on raids.Gw2 doesnt need to give its raid armor to less demanding modes.that is NOT the point of gaming in GW2, this is a WOW raiding mentality where EVERYTHING is about gear and being better than the man next door. GW2 isn't giving its reward to less demanding modes, its about giving 10 man content to the majority of the player base, and giving Legendary gear as a reward system - how 'demanding' a thing is irrelevant, that's like saying you shouldn't get access to a legendary weapon after a year of crafting/gathering because its not demanding. I didnt speak about being better than someone else domt twist my words. Also thats frankly not the point of raids. Their point is to have a certain playstyle and follow a mindset.And yeah someone shouldnt get the acess to the same raid legenxary just because he crafted for a year.Diff legendary set? Sure why not im not argueing about legendary tiers being locked to raids. Im talking about the specific armor being tied to what its made for. Namely challenging content, easier content is not challenging thetefor it shouldnt reward the same things.Not sure what your arguing about then, i said different legendary sets for different raid tiers. Legendary gear being tied to 'challenging' content is mentality that has come from outside GW or people that miss the point of the GW gear philosophy. In guild wars since guild wars 1 you can in fact get the top end prestigious gear through time served and gathering, that's why this is Guild wars and not Wow, people get pleasure from long term objectives. Raiding is just another form of gathering, except some people like to think its extra special because of the requirement to rote memorize - which is actually just another form of long term gathering (muscle memory and wiping aka 'wipe' the raider leader calls) Example? :-1: I as a raider have spent 200 hours repeating over and over on a bunch of bosses until i've got my reward.I as a PVE crafter have spent 200 hundred working on fractals and wvw and gathering to build up materials to get my reward.Different actions, same goals and objectives, same 200 hours for both players, 1 player is not more special than the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pifil.5193 Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 @zealex.9410 said:@Laila Lightness.8742 said:But i want only outside raids raiders should not have then?Hey, don't question Yoda! ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zealex.9410 Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 @vesica tempestas.1563 said:@zealex.9410 said:@vesica tempestas.1563 said:@zealex.9410 said:@vesica tempestas.1563 said:@zealex.9410 said:@vesica tempestas.1563 said:@zealex.9410 said:@"Raizel.8175" said:The only problem I see with "PvE" legendary armor is the missing accessibility of raid-content. GW2 is basically the MMORPG with the least accessible endgame-content I've ever played (and that's a lot after playing MMORPGs for more than a decade).Thats not true. I had a harder time getting into the hardest contemt in wow and in ff14 amd i didnt really bother with eso.actually you mean wow raid content at harder/hardest difficulty level, all raid content is accessible in WOW, you simply pick the level that suits your time commitments and tolerance to abusive behavior. GW2 has no concept of difficulty level, so its high level rote play in highly coordinated groups or the highway, i.e the majority of the casual player base has no access to meaningful 10 man casual instances. Create difficulty levels, different achievements and slightly tweaked legendary gear and its win win and content for all.I compaire the hardest of wow to the hardest of gw2. Also lfr in wow is just there for ppl to see the raid, it doesnt teach you the raid nor rewards you raid exclusive gear or the best gear but through longer grind. Giving the raid exlcusive rewards is not a win win situation and the base gw2 lvl is easy enough thats not an insane commitment to get good at it.lfr is indeed there in WOW so people can see/play the content, its also there for those that don't want to commit to the time involved in the rote memorization and drama required for hardest level encounters (blizzard callsed this out years ago after tbc) Giving the raid difficulty levels unique rewards is absolutely win win, those that have hardest rewards gear don't have their work diminished etc etc. Hard level has 1 set, normal another. No one loses out aside those trying to prevent others from accessing content for selfish reasons, and everyone gets 10 man content.Wow's main focus are the raid so giving ppl way to experience it is key.Yeah bit its not the same, nor is it as detailed and good looking. U get the best reward from the hardest mode, this aplies to wow as well and that game focushes on raids.Gw2 doesnt need to give its raid armor to less demanding modes.that is NOT the point of gaming in GW2, this is a WOW raiding mentality where EVERYTHING is about gear and being better than the man next door. GW2 isn't giving its reward to less demanding modes, its about giving 10 man content to the majority of the player base, and giving Legendary gear as a reward system - how 'demanding' a thing is irrelevant, that's like saying you shouldn't get access to a legendary weapon after a year of crafting/gathering because its not demanding. I didnt speak about being better than someone else domt twist my words. Also thats frankly not the point of raids. Their point is to have a certain playstyle and follow a mindset.And yeah someone shouldnt get the acess to the same raid legenxary just because he crafted for a year.Diff legendary set? Sure why not im not argueing about legendary tiers being locked to raids. Im talking about the specific armor being tied to what its made for. Namely challenging content, easier content is not challenging thetefor it shouldnt reward the same things.Not sure what your arguing about then, i said different legendary sets for different raid tiers. Legendary gear being tied to 'challenging' content is mentality that has come from outside GW or people that miss the point of the GW gear philosophy. In guild wars since guild wars 1 you can in fact get the top end prestigious gear through time served and gathering, that's why this is Guild wars and not Wow, people get pleasure from long term objectives. Raiding is just another form of gathering, except some people like to think its extra special because of the requirement to rote memorize - which is actually just another form of long term gathering (muscle memory and wiping aka 'wipe' the raider leader calls) Example? :-1: I as a raider have spent 200 hours repeating over and over on a bunch of bosses until i've got my reward.I as a PVE crafter have spent 200 hundred working on fractals and wvw and gathering to build up materials to get my reward.Different actions, same goals and objectives, same 200 hours for both players, 1 player is not more special than the other.Im argueing that ow should prob get its own lgendary armor. But a easy raid mode shouldnt get its own.And 1 player put more effort into it. 10 mins if dailys arent the same with 10 mins of raid training.Also compairing gw1 a borderline single player game with gw2 which is by practice and definition an mmo is flawed on its own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zealex.9410 Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 @Pifil.5193 said:@zealex.9410 said:@Laila Lightness.8742 said:But i want only outside raids raiders should not have then?Hey, don't question Yoda! ;) Apologies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oglaf.1074 Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 Why should there be friggin two PvE legendary armour sets? “Because I don’t want to Raid” really isn’t reason enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenom.9457 Posted April 10, 2018 Author Share Posted April 10, 2018 @Oglaf.1074 said:Why should there be friggin two PvE legendary armour sets? “Because I don’t want to Raid” really isn’t reason enough. Make it competitive but with exclusive skins then. Better yet, a mix of all game modes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hibiskus.8294 Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 Oh....after my idea with pve cultural armor...what if...well what if they give the dragon champs legendary recipe drops (and the material drops for these recipes)....I mean, tequatl is the most rewarding dragon (well actually i never got one ascended drop....but the chance is there...), also i wonder why just tequatl has an own miniature and weapon set, jormags claw and the shatterer have no own unique weapon drops and miniatures....(ok shadow of the dragon is an story boss, but i think it too deserves a miniature, it IS a champion), but back to the thema: why we could not have legendary dragon armor? i mean come on, they are dragons...and it would take time to get the armor, since you only can get the rewards once a day.... :o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bladestrom.6425 Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 @zealex.9410 said:@vesica tempestas.1563 said:@zealex.9410 said:@vesica tempestas.1563 said:@zealex.9410 said:@vesica tempestas.1563 said:@zealex.9410 said:@vesica tempestas.1563 said:@zealex.9410 said:@"Raizel.8175" said:The only problem I see with "PvE" legendary armor is the missing accessibility of raid-content. GW2 is basically the MMORPG with the least accessible endgame-content I've ever played (and that's a lot after playing MMORPGs for more than a decade).Thats not true. I had a harder time getting into the hardest contemt in wow and in ff14 amd i didnt really bother with eso.actually you mean wow raid content at harder/hardest difficulty level, all raid content is accessible in WOW, you simply pick the level that suits your time commitments and tolerance to abusive behavior. GW2 has no concept of difficulty level, so its high level rote play in highly coordinated groups or the highway, i.e the majority of the casual player base has no access to meaningful 10 man casual instances. Create difficulty levels, different achievements and slightly tweaked legendary gear and its win win and content for all.I compaire the hardest of wow to the hardest of gw2. Also lfr in wow is just there for ppl to see the raid, it doesnt teach you the raid nor rewards you raid exclusive gear or the best gear but through longer grind. Giving the raid exlcusive rewards is not a win win situation and the base gw2 lvl is easy enough thats not an insane commitment to get good at it.lfr is indeed there in WOW so people can see/play the content, its also there for those that don't want to commit to the time involved in the rote memorization and drama required for hardest level encounters (blizzard callsed this out years ago after tbc) Giving the raid difficulty levels unique rewards is absolutely win win, those that have hardest rewards gear don't have their work diminished etc etc. Hard level has 1 set, normal another. No one loses out aside those trying to prevent others from accessing content for selfish reasons, and everyone gets 10 man content.Wow's main focus are the raid so giving ppl way to experience it is key.Yeah bit its not the same, nor is it as detailed and good looking. U get the best reward from the hardest mode, this aplies to wow as well and that game focushes on raids.Gw2 doesnt need to give its raid armor to less demanding modes.that is NOT the point of gaming in GW2, this is a WOW raiding mentality where EVERYTHING is about gear and being better than the man next door. GW2 isn't giving its reward to less demanding modes, its about giving 10 man content to the majority of the player base, and giving Legendary gear as a reward system - how 'demanding' a thing is irrelevant, that's like saying you shouldn't get access to a legendary weapon after a year of crafting/gathering because its not demanding. I didnt speak about being better than someone else domt twist my words. Also thats frankly not the point of raids. Their point is to have a certain playstyle and follow a mindset.And yeah someone shouldnt get the acess to the same raid legenxary just because he crafted for a year.Diff legendary set? Sure why not im not argueing about legendary tiers being locked to raids. Im talking about the specific armor being tied to what its made for. Namely challenging content, easier content is not challenging thetefor it shouldnt reward the same things.Not sure what your arguing about then, i said different legendary sets for different raid tiers. Legendary gear being tied to 'challenging' content is mentality that has come from outside GW or people that miss the point of the GW gear philosophy. In guild wars since guild wars 1 you can in fact get the top end prestigious gear through time served and gathering, that's why this is Guild wars and not Wow, people get pleasure from long term objectives. Raiding is just another form of gathering, except some people like to think its extra special because of the requirement to rote memorize - which is actually just another form of long term gathering (muscle memory and wiping aka 'wipe' the raider leader calls) Example? :-1: I as a raider have spent 200 hours repeating over and over on a bunch of bosses until i've got my reward.I as a PVE crafter have spent 200 hundred working on fractals and wvw and gathering to build up materials to get my reward.Different actions, same goals and objectives, same 200 hours for both players, 1 player is not more special than the other.Im argueing that ow should prob get its own lgendary armor. But a easy raid mode shouldnt get its own.And 1 player put more effort into it. 10 mins if dailys arent the same with 10 mins of raid training.Also compairing gw1 a borderline single player game with gw2 which is by practice and definition an mmo is flawed on its own.A pve player spending 200 hours practicing raids will result in legendaries and vice versa. the issue is raiders thinking their time is more important because the time distribution for raiding is different, its not, 1 persons 200 hours is just as valuable as another. Also I wasn't comparing GW1 to GW2 (the former is a coorpg not a single player game) I was talking about the shared gearing philosophy. For many muscle memory and rotation is not difficult, its time served. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oglaf.1074 Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 @vesica tempestas.1563 said:@zealex.9410 said:@vesica tempestas.1563 said:@zealex.9410 said:@vesica tempestas.1563 said:@zealex.9410 said:@vesica tempestas.1563 said:@zealex.9410 said:@vesica tempestas.1563 said:@zealex.9410 said:@"Raizel.8175" said:The only problem I see with "PvE" legendary armor is the missing accessibility of raid-content. GW2 is basically the MMORPG with the least accessible endgame-content I've ever played (and that's a lot after playing MMORPGs for more than a decade).Thats not true. I had a harder time getting into the hardest contemt in wow and in ff14 amd i didnt really bother with eso.actually you mean wow raid content at harder/hardest difficulty level, all raid content is accessible in WOW, you simply pick the level that suits your time commitments and tolerance to abusive behavior. GW2 has no concept of difficulty level, so its high level rote play in highly coordinated groups or the highway, i.e the majority of the casual player base has no access to meaningful 10 man casual instances. Create difficulty levels, different achievements and slightly tweaked legendary gear and its win win and content for all.I compaire the hardest of wow to the hardest of gw2. Also lfr in wow is just there for ppl to see the raid, it doesnt teach you the raid nor rewards you raid exclusive gear or the best gear but through longer grind. Giving the raid exlcusive rewards is not a win win situation and the base gw2 lvl is easy enough thats not an insane commitment to get good at it.lfr is indeed there in WOW so people can see/play the content, its also there for those that don't want to commit to the time involved in the rote memorization and drama required for hardest level encounters (blizzard callsed this out years ago after tbc) Giving the raid difficulty levels unique rewards is absolutely win win, those that have hardest rewards gear don't have their work diminished etc etc. Hard level has 1 set, normal another. No one loses out aside those trying to prevent others from accessing content for selfish reasons, and everyone gets 10 man content.Wow's main focus are the raid so giving ppl way to experience it is key.Yeah bit its not the same, nor is it as detailed and good looking. U get the best reward from the hardest mode, this aplies to wow as well and that game focushes on raids.Gw2 doesnt need to give its raid armor to less demanding modes.that is NOT the point of gaming in GW2, this is a WOW raiding mentality where EVERYTHING is about gear and being better than the man next door. GW2 isn't giving its reward to less demanding modes, its about giving 10 man content to the majority of the player base, and giving Legendary gear as a reward system - how 'demanding' a thing is irrelevant, that's like saying you shouldn't get access to a legendary weapon after a year of crafting/gathering because its not demanding. I didnt speak about being better than someone else domt twist my words. Also thats frankly not the point of raids. Their point is to have a certain playstyle and follow a mindset.And yeah someone shouldnt get the acess to the same raid legenxary just because he crafted for a year.Diff legendary set? Sure why not im not argueing about legendary tiers being locked to raids. Im talking about the specific armor being tied to what its made for. Namely challenging content, easier content is not challenging thetefor it shouldnt reward the same things.Not sure what your arguing about then, i said different legendary sets for different raid tiers. Legendary gear being tied to 'challenging' content is mentality that has come from outside GW or people that miss the point of the GW gear philosophy. In guild wars since guild wars 1 you can in fact get the top end prestigious gear through time served and gathering, that's why this is Guild wars and not Wow, people get pleasure from long term objectives. Raiding is just another form of gathering, except some people like to think its extra special because of the requirement to rote memorize - which is actually just another form of long term gathering (muscle memory and wiping aka 'wipe' the raider leader calls) Example? :-1: I as a raider have spent 200 hours repeating over and over on a bunch of bosses until i've got my reward.I as a PVE crafter have spent 200 hundred working on fractals and wvw and gathering to build up materials to get my reward.Different actions, same goals and objectives, same 200 hours for both players, 1 player is not more special than the other.Im argueing that ow should prob get its own lgendary armor. But a easy raid mode shouldnt get its own.And 1 player put more effort into it. 10 mins if dailys arent the same with 10 mins of raid training.Also compairing gw1 a borderline single player game with gw2 which is by practice and definition an mmo is flawed on its own.A pve player spending 200 hours practicing raids will result in legendaries and vice versa. the issue is raiders thinking their time is more important because the time distribution for raiding is different, its not, 1 persons 200 hours is just as valuable as another. Also I wasn't comparing GW1 to GW2 (the former is a coorpg not a single player game) I was talking about the shared gearing philosophy. For many muscle memory and rotation is not difficult, its time served.Nice strawman telling us raiders how we think in regards to our time spent in-game. No, our time is not “more valuable” at all but we’ve chosen to spend it doing hard end-game PvE for the reward of Legendary Armour. Doesn’t mean our time is more valuable, but rather spent towards a very specific goal. Let’s be real here: “Open world PvE Legendary” is really just a code word for “gold sink”. One can easily buy 99% mats needed for a “open world PvE” legendary weapon with a Credit Card. The value of Legendary Armour, be it PvE or PvP, is that unlike the weapons you cannot Pay2Win it. You have to earn it.It is gated by merit. As I’ve been saying over and over: if you want it, put the dang effort in getting it. If you’re not willing to do that, quite frankly, you don’t deserve it. Asking for what boils down to an “easy mode” alternative is not a valid option. Now, don’t think me some elitist jerkwad. I honestly believe that anyone can raid if they are willing to put the time and effort into it. I’m not opposed to anyone earning their Legendary Armour that way - quite the opposite. I’d highly encourage people like the OP to do so.Asking for an easier alternative because you’re not willing to earn your armour proper however, irks me greatly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zealex.9410 Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 @vesica tempestas.1563 said:@zealex.9410 said:@vesica tempestas.1563 said:@zealex.9410 said:@vesica tempestas.1563 said:@zealex.9410 said:@vesica tempestas.1563 said:@zealex.9410 said:@vesica tempestas.1563 said:@zealex.9410 said:@"Raizel.8175" said:The only problem I see with "PvE" legendary armor is the missing accessibility of raid-content. GW2 is basically the MMORPG with the least accessible endgame-content I've ever played (and that's a lot after playing MMORPGs for more than a decade).Thats not true. I had a harder time getting into the hardest contemt in wow and in ff14 amd i didnt really bother with eso.actually you mean wow raid content at harder/hardest difficulty level, all raid content is accessible in WOW, you simply pick the level that suits your time commitments and tolerance to abusive behavior. GW2 has no concept of difficulty level, so its high level rote play in highly coordinated groups or the highway, i.e the majority of the casual player base has no access to meaningful 10 man casual instances. Create difficulty levels, different achievements and slightly tweaked legendary gear and its win win and content for all.I compaire the hardest of wow to the hardest of gw2. Also lfr in wow is just there for ppl to see the raid, it doesnt teach you the raid nor rewards you raid exclusive gear or the best gear but through longer grind. Giving the raid exlcusive rewards is not a win win situation and the base gw2 lvl is easy enough thats not an insane commitment to get good at it.lfr is indeed there in WOW so people can see/play the content, its also there for those that don't want to commit to the time involved in the rote memorization and drama required for hardest level encounters (blizzard callsed this out years ago after tbc) Giving the raid difficulty levels unique rewards is absolutely win win, those that have hardest rewards gear don't have their work diminished etc etc. Hard level has 1 set, normal another. No one loses out aside those trying to prevent others from accessing content for selfish reasons, and everyone gets 10 man content.Wow's main focus are the raid so giving ppl way to experience it is key.Yeah bit its not the same, nor is it as detailed and good looking. U get the best reward from the hardest mode, this aplies to wow as well and that game focushes on raids.Gw2 doesnt need to give its raid armor to less demanding modes.that is NOT the point of gaming in GW2, this is a WOW raiding mentality where EVERYTHING is about gear and being better than the man next door. GW2 isn't giving its reward to less demanding modes, its about giving 10 man content to the majority of the player base, and giving Legendary gear as a reward system - how 'demanding' a thing is irrelevant, that's like saying you shouldn't get access to a legendary weapon after a year of crafting/gathering because its not demanding. I didnt speak about being better than someone else domt twist my words. Also thats frankly not the point of raids. Their point is to have a certain playstyle and follow a mindset.And yeah someone shouldnt get the acess to the same raid legenxary just because he crafted for a year.Diff legendary set? Sure why not im not argueing about legendary tiers being locked to raids. Im talking about the specific armor being tied to what its made for. Namely challenging content, easier content is not challenging thetefor it shouldnt reward the same things.Not sure what your arguing about then, i said different legendary sets for different raid tiers. Legendary gear being tied to 'challenging' content is mentality that has come from outside GW or people that miss the point of the GW gear philosophy. In guild wars since guild wars 1 you can in fact get the top end prestigious gear through time served and gathering, that's why this is Guild wars and not Wow, people get pleasure from long term objectives. Raiding is just another form of gathering, except some people like to think its extra special because of the requirement to rote memorize - which is actually just another form of long term gathering (muscle memory and wiping aka 'wipe' the raider leader calls) Example? :-1: I as a raider have spent 200 hours repeating over and over on a bunch of bosses until i've got my reward.I as a PVE crafter have spent 200 hundred working on fractals and wvw and gathering to build up materials to get my reward.Different actions, same goals and objectives, same 200 hours for both players, 1 player is not more special than the other.Im argueing that ow should prob get its own lgendary armor. But a easy raid mode shouldnt get its own.And 1 player put more effort into it. 10 mins if dailys arent the same with 10 mins of raid training.Also compairing gw1 a borderline single player game with gw2 which is by practice and definition an mmo is flawed on its own.A pve player spending 200 hours practicing raids will result in legendaries and vice versa. the issue is raiders thinking their time is more important because the time distribution for raiding is different, its not, 1 persons 200 hours is just as valuable as another. Also I wasn't comparing GW1 to GW2 (the former is a coorpg not a single player game) I was talking about the shared gearing philosophy. For many muscle memory and rotation is not difficult, its time served.Not all is judged by time spemd amd time spemd is a veryy poor mesure to justify prestige. 1 hour of me walking in no way requires the same amount of effort as a running running for 1 hour. And it should be rewarded the same. Furthermore legendary isnt a better armor therefore an easy mode rewarding exotics or in the best case scenario asc gear is just as good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenom.9457 Posted April 10, 2018 Author Share Posted April 10, 2018 @Hibiskus.8294 said:Oh....after my idea with pve cultural armor...what if...well what if they give the dragon champs legendary recipe drops (and the material drops for these recipes)....I mean, tequatl is the most rewarding dragon (well actually i never got one ascended drop....but the chance is there...), also i wonder why just tequatl has an own miniature and weapon set, jormags claw and the shatterer have no own unique weapon drops and miniatures....(ok shadow of the dragon is an story boss, but i think it too deserves a miniature, it IS a champion), but back to the thema: why we could not have legendary dragon armor? i mean come on, they are dragons...and it would take time to get the armor, since you only can get the rewards once a day.... :o Legendary armor skins inspired in some way by dragons? That is exactly what I want. Who do I have to kill? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralporing.1957 Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 @Oglaf.1074 said:@Hibiskus.8294 said:Yes a pve-legendray armor would be awesome.....Raiding is PvE.In about the same way as Emmanuel Macron is the president of EU (or, even better, of the world). Or, another example. Let's say that there was a hidden JP in each raid instance, and the way of obtaining the envoy armor would have been through doing those JPs, and only through doing those JPs, without the need to kill even a single raid boss. Would you call it a Raid armor then? Because that's what you're doing now.But let us be more specific: what is needed is a core PvE legendary armor. Not an armor that technically comes from PvE, but in reality belongs to a niche mode meant for only a minority of players, and has nothing to do with the 95% of the PvE content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geochan.9184 Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 @Fenom.9457 said:@geochan.9184 said:@Khailyn.6248 said:im fully aware you can raid in exotics and im not even a raider. im making a joke at the idea that legendary armor would be useful for raiding but once you have it/the skin, theres no longer that carrot on the stick to keep you playing the game mode. considering legendary armor skins has been kept unique to raids , im quite confident many players are chasing the skin rather than doing it for love of the game mode.If most people are chasing the skin rather than raiding for fun, then the said 1st point of the practical advantage of the legendary skin is irrelevant to this discussion. Leaving that only 2nd point of having a new skin with effect is relevant, it's fair that legendary has to be obtained thru various difficulties just similar to other legendaries.Just like all other legendaries, you can also buy it with gold indirectly thru people that is selling raids. Everything has a way.But isn’t each raid like 500 gold per kill? Like thousands of dollars for 150 LI?I don't know, but you can pay for it and that's the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenom.9457 Posted April 11, 2018 Author Share Posted April 11, 2018 @geochan.9184 said:@Fenom.9457 said:@geochan.9184 said:@Khailyn.6248 said:im fully aware you can raid in exotics and im not even a raider. im making a joke at the idea that legendary armor would be useful for raiding but once you have it/the skin, theres no longer that carrot on the stick to keep you playing the game mode. considering legendary armor skins has been kept unique to raids , im quite confident many players are chasing the skin rather than doing it for love of the game mode.If most people are chasing the skin rather than raiding for fun, then the said 1st point of the practical advantage of the legendary skin is irrelevant to this discussion. Leaving that only 2nd point of having a new skin with effect is relevant, it's fair that legendary has to be obtained thru various difficulties just similar to other legendaries.Just like all other legendaries, you can also buy it with gold indirectly thru people that is selling raids. Everything has a way.But isn’t each raid like 500 gold per kill? Like thousands of dollars for 150 LI?I don't know, but you can pay for it and that's the point.I get that, but being able to pay for it as in purchasable and able to pay for it as in actually able to even remotely afford it are different Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brynioch.1873 Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 @Fenom.9457 said:@Miellyn.6847 said:What is the purpose of this poll? Legendary armor is already accessible outside of raids. Do people willingly ignore everything to force their own agenda? Or is it about the skin?Said multiple times it’s about the skinSo why does your thread title and poll ask for legendary armor and not envoy skin? Do you want to skew the result? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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