Account suspension discussion [merged]

[Some Call Me Tim.2319]

@FerrenoNL.7928 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@FerrenoNL.7928 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@Kururu.8140 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@Kururu.8140 said:

@FerrenoNL.7928 said:I just got the suspension too. Likewise all I run is ArcDPS (with build templates) and TacO. Im presuming either of those is not allowed anymore.

Gaile, forwarding to a generic information post is not very helpful. I've submitted a support ticket and will await Anet's replies there in private.

@OP I recommend you do the same :)

I had both of those installed but needed to rebuild my PC 2 days ago (thus my pc uninstalled everything on it including GW2 and along with it arcdps and taco which I haven't re-added to GW2 yet). The thread said they suspended 1583 accounts but I find it hard to believe only 1583 had arcdps and/or taco. Taco is simply an overlay and all arcpds does is read screen information so they should both be okay to use.

ArcDPS reads game memory.

Eh, I guess. Either way it still isn't a violation as far as I'm aware.

It was at the start, then they said it isn't but also they said it's "use at your own risk".

This. I can imagine that perhaps Arc modified a memory address it wasn't supposed to by accident, or perhaps Anet's measurements are off.

I hope that they have competent people working on automated detection algorithms, and that something a bit sturdier than simply doing a processlist scan, flagging a "suspicious tool running alongside GW2" is required for them to move forward.

Nevertheless, if I'm understanding Gaile right, they are investigating, and whilst that investigation lasts, no appeals will be handled.

Deep inside, I hope in some cases they banned people using Arc. That would make my warnings from few months ago so true now.

That would contradict the greenlight from Chris a while back. Don't forget that Arc not only is a DPS meter, but also substitutes templates.

Based on what I'm reading so far, I'm guessing its something with Arc, or maybe a Windows update, or other tool (maybe anti-virus?) interfering with the game. Maybe Tribulation markers for TacO from Tekkit (official content creator, right?) which I used are not allowed, either?

There's too many people saying they are innocent. Something is a bit off, but hey that's just me. Honestly, if I'm wrong, they can name and shame me all they want, but this is my story...

Chris, or anyone else from ANet might have said at some point that certain programs wouldn't be violating the TOS.... but THAT in itself doesn't over-ride the TOS. The TOS states no 3rd party software correct? and no multi function macros correct? Regardless of what anyone, including the President of ANet writes in a forum.. unless the TOS is updated to reflect what's being apparently stated by ANet employes then the TOS is the rule.

I'm not saying "suck it up and go"... I'm just trying to say that simply put, unless it's in the TOS then it's really not allowed.

Good luck to the folks that use the stuff that they believe is ok. Frankly I don't understand the need to use anything to make the game easier in any way. If a person can't take the time and simply learn and get better then frankly it's time for a game the provides an easier experience. Making an excuse that "it's not really a hack or cheat, but it does help me a bit" doesn't quite cut it, imo.

[Sojar.1495]

@Lord of the Fire.6870 said:

@"Ashamir.9574" said:I don't get Anets policy regarding

anything

.

They have 2 types of modus operandi:

1. "If we ignore it, it didn't happen!"
2. "Shoot first, ask questions later!"

This feels like a sudden jump from 1 to 2. Tbh I expect a lot of people that were flagged by this to actually have used macros, programs that have features that violate the ToS, or something smiliar. At the same time I also expect some people to be falsely accused here, escpecially since bannwaves like this one are never 100% accurate.

And then @"Gaile Gray.6029" wrote "...we will not be accepting appeals about these account suspensions." which brings us back to 1.

This isn't unusually because people find a way to exploit the little things they are allowed and yes there is no 100% accuracy because cheat programs and bots access the memory the same way as dps meters do so my police is don't use them.

ArcDPS does NOT access memory like the programs in question do. Not even remotely. Please see my previous explanation post on how ArcDPS functions, at a high level. Frankly, you really should stop posting utter nonsense like this, because all it does is give (FALSE) credence to these hackers posting that "all I did was use ArcDPS," when in fact, they are just lying through their teeth and can't admit they tried to cheat.

[Strider Pj.2193]

@Twoodi.5849 said:@""Sojar.1495"

keyboards with macros built into them exist, might wanna look at some pictures and educate yourself before being so condescending on the internet.

Still means you need to program the macro it's using. And then hitting said macro.

Having the keyboard isn't the issue.

[Twoodi.5849]

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@Twoodi.5849 said:@""Sojar.1495"

keyboards with macros built into them exist, might wanna look at some pictures and educate yourself before being so condescending on the internet.

Still means you need to program the macro it's using. And then hitting said macro.

Having the keyboard isn't the issue.

Yes i know i am just saying a 6 month ban for hitting my music macro (which are allowed) in WVW by accident is extremely harsh.

According to anet what i did is worse than real world money trading PVP wins.

[Sojar.1495]

If I had but one wish, it would be that ANET post an excerpt of the logs from each person that is saying "But.... all I used was..." showing what they REALLY did, so we can pull out the shame bell and parade them up to the Red Keep, naked, chanting "Shame, shame, shame!" Justice be done! #makeithappenANET

[Ashamir.9574]

@Lord of the Fire.6870 said:This isn't unusually because people find a way to exploit the little things they are allowed and yes there is no 100% accuracy because cheat programs and bots access the memory the same way as dps meters do so my police is don't use them.

Personally, I don't use any second-party progams either - however if I wanna find coins, do SAB daily, complete some strange PoF achievements, finish a collection, craft etc. I go to the wiki or Dulfy and check how it's done. So I can't comlain about other players using stuff like Taco or Arc. What's the difference between following an arrow from an overlay in SAB and having a Dulfy video running on your second monitor?

Someone here already pointed out that everything is an advantage in the end, including how good your connection is and what hardware you use. The line has to be drawn where software plays the game for you, imo.

I have no issue with banning cheaters, I have an issue with the way banning in general is handled in gw2.

[FyzE.3472]

@"Sojar.1495" said:If I had but one wish, it would be that ANET post an excerpt of the logs from each person that is saying "But.... all I used was..." showing what they REALLY did, so we can pull out the shame bell and parade them up to the Red Keep, naked, chanting "Shame, shame, shame!" Justice be done! #makeithappenANET

I understand your joy for this, I really do. But this is not healthy for you man. It feels like JUSTICE! YAAAS! But in the end, this is nothing to be proud of. Just go on and continue happily playing the game cheaters free! It's A LOT better than just shaming everyone. Plus this kind of stuff may turn into a nightmare when you yourself make a mistake. I know that you would probably say "then I deserve it" but I bet you would rather hear something like "hey, we all make mistakes, we're humans" rather than "AHAHAHA that's what you get kid!". My 2 cents

[Avelione.6075]

SOOOOOOOOO, HOW IS IT GOING TO BE ANET? Where is cooperation with the community now? This choya is very persistent.... If I ever get banned, I'll make a big shitstorm about this ;p I REALLy want to use something to remove that horrible blind-you shine afterglow that almost everything has in the game, but I'm still afraid :/

[artemis.6781]

You got caught cheating. Suck it up!

[Sojar.1495]

@Ashamir.9574 said:

@Lord of the Fire.6870 said:This isn't unusually because people find a way to exploit the little things they are allowed and yes there is no 100% accuracy because cheat programs and bots access the memory the same way as dps meters do so my police is don't use them.

Personally, I don't use any second-party progams either - however if I wanna find coins, do SAB daily, complete some strange PoF achievements, finish a collection, craft etc. I go to the wiki or Dulfy and check how it's done. So I can't comlain about other players using stuff like Taco or Arc. What's the difference between following an arrow from an overlay in SAB and having a Dulfy video running on your second monitor?

Someone here already pointed out that

everything

is an advantage in the end, including how good your connection is and what hardware you use. The line has to be drawn where software plays the game for you, imo.

I have no issue with banning cheaters, I have an issue with the way banning in general is handled in gw2.

This is one of the first fair replies I've seen.

However, let me pose a question to you, not to be contentious whatsoever, but rather, to see your thoughts on it.

If you could have one major thing changed about how ANET handles bans, what would that be?

[Ardenwolfe.8590]

@Anthony.7630 said:i suspect people were afk botting or farm botting somehow. a few guild members in my guild got a 6 month ban for bottin and we are all on dragon brand. I just logged in a few minutes ago.

I'm starting to wonder if that's the case too.

[Strider Pj.2193]

@Twoodi.5849 said:

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@Twoodi.5849 said:@""Sojar.1495"

keyboards with macros built into them exist, might wanna look at some pictures and educate yourself before being so condescending on the internet.

Still means you need to program the macro it's using. And then hitting said macro.

Having the keyboard isn't the issue.

Yes i know i am just saying a 6 month ban for hitting my music macro (which are allowed) in WVW by accident is extremely harsh.

According to anet what i did is worse than real world money trading PVP wins.

If that is all you did, then I would agree with you.

It really doesn't matter what I think. Somehow, whether that, or some other issue you did, triggered the ban.

[Strider Pj.2193]

@FyzE.3472 said:

@"Sojar.1495" said:If I had but one wish, it would be that ANET post an excerpt of the logs from each person that is saying "But.... all I used was..." showing what they REALLY did, so we can pull out the shame bell and parade them up to the Red Keep, naked, chanting "Shame, shame, shame!" Justice be done! #makeithappenANET

I understand your joy for this, I really do. But this is not healthy for you man. It feels like JUSTICE! YAAAS! But in the end, this is nothing to be proud of. Just go on and continue happily playing the game cheaters free! It's A LOT better than just shaming everyone. Plus this kind of stuff may turn into a nightmare when you yourself make a mistake. I know that you would probably say "then I deserve it" but I bet you would rather hear something like "hey, we all make mistakes, we're humans" rather than "AHAHAHA that's what you get kid!". My 2 cents

His thought was for everyone coming to a game-public forum to profess their innocence, not for everyone who was banned.

[Zohane.7208]

@Twoodi.5849 said:

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@Twoodi.5849 said:@""Sojar.1495"

keyboards with macros built into them exist, might wanna look at some pictures and educate yourself before being so condescending on the internet.

Still means you need to program the macro it's using. And then hitting said macro.

Having the keyboard isn't the issue.

Yes i know i am just saying a 6 month ban for hitting my music macro (which are allowed) in WVW by accident is extremely harsh.

According to anet what i did is worse than real world money trading PVP wins.I'll make a very fine distinction here. There is, in fact, no "music macro" - all a keyboard macro ever does is simulate keypresses. When used in GW2, a macro will press keys which are mapped to skills (or other things). If you have an instrument equipped, it will produce notes which hopefully produce lovely music. If, however, you have a weapon equipped, it will cause wepon skills (and utility skills) to be activated. So the exact same macro can produce a perfectly allowed result (music) or a disallowed result (combat).

In fact, you could activate the macro in your Word processor and it would generate keypresses there too. The result would likely not make sense but still.

As far as I can recall, all Anet have said is that macros are allowed while playing music.

In your case, the mistake was having a macro mapped to a key you happened to press - this produced automated combat.

[Twoodi.5849]

@Zohane.7208 said:

@Twoodi.5849 said:

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@Twoodi.5849 said:@""Sojar.1495"

keyboards with macros built into them exist, might wanna look at some pictures and educate yourself before being so condescending on the internet.

Still means you need to program the macro it's using. And then hitting said macro.

Having the keyboard isn't the issue.

Yes i know i am just saying a 6 month ban for hitting my music macro (which are allowed) in WVW by accident is extremely harsh.

According to anet what i did is worse than real world money trading PVP wins.I'll make a very fine distinction here. There is, in fact, no "music macro" - all a keyboard macro ever does is simulate keypresses. When used in GW2, a macro will press keys which are mapped to skills (or other things). If you have an instrument equipped, it will produce notes which hopefully produce lovely music. If, however, you have a weapon equipped, it will cause wepon skills (and utility skills) to be activated. So the exact same macro can produce a perfectly allowed result (music) or a disallowed result (combat).

In fact, you could activate the macro in your Word processor and it would generate keypresses there too. The result would likely not make sense but still.

As far as I can recall, all Anet have said is that macros are allowed while playing music.

In your case, the mistake was having a macro mapped to a key you happened to press - this produced automated combat.

True but i play revenant and spamming 2345 6789 is very counteractive as a revenant in WVW as i'm trying to keep boons up and not waste energy. If ANET emailed me or whispered/mail me in game, i would've just deleted the macros, apologised and moved on. I just don't think its fair i'm being lumped in with players who actually cheated for an advantage by using teleportation or fly hacks.

[artemis.6781]

But you did cheat because one button was used for more than one action.

[Ardenwolfe.8590]

@"Steve The Cynic.3217" said:This is a game from the Guild Wars family. Surely (ref: thread title) it should be a banscythe.

I did once see that happen to someone. I was standing in the GToB and someone in my field of vision (but behind another character) had been banned. Big huge figure swirled up, swing of scythe, swirled back down into the ground. Very impressive.

Interesting. I never knew there was a graphic representation for this action in-game.

[Ardenwolfe.8590]

Keep it civil, people. Bans and suspensions happen here too.

[Vova.2640]

It amazes me how many people here are pitying those who got banned.Most games out there give out perma bans for stuff like this. These people are lucky enough to only get 6 months.Like, this 6 month ban is not harsh at all and is completely deserved for those who willingly chose to do this.

[GreyWolf.8670]

@"Dreamy Lu.3865" said:For information: In my GW2 folder, I now have a text file listing programs with much details and indication if they are prohibited or not. Do you all have that?

If it's the one called "THIRDPARTYSOFTWAREREADME" then it's a license notice. It lists the open-source software that was used in the game code and where it came from.

[Ardenwolfe.8590]

True. As I said in another thread, I suspect macros and keybinding two actions into one button got a lot of people this suspension.

[Twoodi.5849]

@FyzE.3472 said:

@"Twoodi.5849" said:Nothing to do with your grammar, more to do with the fact you are struggling to follow the discussion and not making much sense.

Sure. "I did not know that scamming with taxes is now allowed. If only the tax agency have called me and told me, I would not have done it" mindset is incorrect in it's core. Sorry again if that is news for you.

GW2 macros are allowed and people have already linked to ANET staff saying music macros are allowed.

I already admitted i should've been more careful and not leave the music macros on my keyboard where i could easily activate them by mistake like i did. I just think it's unfair to lump me in with people who were actively hacking in the game with fly hacks, teleportation and other hacks.

But whatever this discussion has been had multiple times and we are not really getting anywhere.

Cya later and i hope you all have fun playing :)

Edit:

Again people don't seem to understand. Musical instruments replace your weapons and skills and you play notes via 0 - 9, you can go to http://gw2mb.com/archive.php and download macros to play instruments for you. ANET said these are fine to use and i accidentally activated them in WVW a few times.

[Zohane.7208]

@Twoodi.5849 said:

@FyzE.3472 said:

@Twoodi.5849 said:Nothing to do with your grammar, more to do with the fact you are struggling to follow the discussion and not making much sense.

Sure. "I did not know that scamming with taxes is now allowed. If only the tax agency have called me and told me, I would not have done it" mindset is incorrect in it's core. Sorry again if that is news for you.

GW2 macros are allowed and people have already linked to ANET staff saying music macros are allowed.

I already admitted i should've been more careful and not leave the music macros on my keyboard where i could easily activate them by mistake like i did. I just think it's unfair to lump me in with people who were actively hacking in the game with fly hacks, teleportation and other hacks.

But whatever this discussion has been had multiple times and we are not really getting anywhere.

Cya later and i hope you all have fun playing :)

Then again, in the context used, your macro was not a "music macro" - it was a "combat macro".

[Healix.5819]

@Twoodi.5849 said:I already admitted i should've been more careful and not leave the music macros on my keyboard where i could easily activate them by mistake like i did. I just think it's unfair to lump me in with people who were actively hacking in the game with fly hacks, teleportation and other hacks.

Unless you accidentally used a music macro to stay online for days at a time regularly over the last few months, you weren't banned for simply using a macro. A 6 month suspension is what they give for a serious offense. If they were actually banning macros, the count would have been in the tens of thousands.

[kharmin.7683]

@Ardenwolfe.8590 said:

@"Steve The Cynic.3217" said:This is a game from the Guild Wars family. Surely (ref: thread title) it should be a

banscythe

.

I did once see that happen to someone. I was standing in the GToB and someone in my field of vision (but behind another character) had been banned. Big huge figure swirled up, swing of scythe, swirled back down into the ground. Very impressive.

Interesting. I never knew there was a graphic representation for this action in-game.

It was in GW, not GW2. There are youtube videos out there if you're curious.