WvW Commanders rule: no Ranger, Druid, Dragonhunter, Scrapper, etc

[Samnang.1879]

Then don't play those classes or don't join their squad.Why are you acting so self-entitled?

[Jumpin Lumpix.6108]

@Samnang.1879 said:Then don't play those classes or don't join their squad.Why are you acting so self-entitled?

What are you supposed to do when they monopolize the only maps with enemy zergs in them?

[Sirius.4510]

That's been said several times already... don't join their squad, just tag along.

[Ashen.2907]

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

@Samnang.1879 said:Then don't play those classes or don't join their squad.Why are you acting so self-entitled?

What are you supposed to do when they monopolize the only maps with enemy zergs in them?

Not physically possible.

[Jumpin Lumpix.6108]

@Ashen.2907 said:

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

@Samnang.1879 said:Then don't play those classes or don't join their squad.Why are you acting so self-entitled?

What are you supposed to do when they monopolize the only maps with enemy zergs in them?

Not physically possible.

It happens all the time, enemy server has one zerg, other server has none and ours has one, it's a total monopoly.

[Samnang.1879]

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

@"Samnang.1879" said:Then don't play those classes or don't join their squad.Why are you acting so self-entitled?

What are you supposed to do when they monopolize the only maps with enemy zergs in them?

You can still follow the commander... it's not like they have the power to kick u off the map. I'm all for inclusion, fairness and kindness blah blah blah. But there is a legit reason why they don't want rangers and thieves, those classes don't provide any boons for the squad.

I'm the type of person to play any class i want in wvw... so i accept that fact, why can't others? Stop labelling everything as "toxic" and "abusive"... when things don't go the way you want.

[Jumpin Lumpix.6108]

@Samnang.1879 said:

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

@Samnang.1879 said:Then don't play those classes or don't join their squad.Why are you acting so self-entitled?

What are you supposed to do when they monopolize the only maps with enemy zergs in them?

You can still follow the commander... it's not like they have the power to kick u off the map. I'm all for inclusion, fairness and kindness blah blah blah. But there is a legit reason why they don't want rangers and thieves, those classes don't provide any boons for the squad.

I'm the type of person to play any class i want in wvw... so i accept that fact, why can't others? Stop labelling everything as "toxic" and "abusive"... when things don't go the way you want.

Oh so we should have to compromise and not get the benefits of a squad because a commander tagged up and is being exclusionary, when they should be leading everyone. I'm very convinced now that if Anet had decided to make it so that squads were forced open in wvw from day one (like I suggest), that you would all be advocating that, that's the way it should be instead of what it is now.

[Rysdude.3824]

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

@Samnang.1879 said:Then don't play those classes or don't join their squad.Why are you acting so self-entitled?

What are you supposed to do when they monopolize the only maps with enemy zergs in them?

What is one or two players going to do against an enemy zerg?

[Jumpin Lumpix.6108]

@Rysdude.3824 said:

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

@Samnang.1879 said:Then don't play those classes or don't join their squad.Why are you acting so self-entitled?

What are you supposed to do when they monopolize the only maps with enemy zergs in them?

What is one or two players going to do against an enemy zerg?

Tag up and begin to form a squad that's more inclusive, but you can't because there is already only one zerg with an exclusionary commander leading it.

[Albadaran.1283]

I don't care. I simply join the fighting even when I'm nog invited in the squad. Can play without the benefits. No way to kick me lol!

[Rysdude.3824]

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

@Rysdude.3824 said:

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

@Samnang.1879 said:Then don't play those classes or don't join their squad.Why are you acting so self-entitled?

What are you supposed to do when they monopolize the only maps with enemy zergs in them?

What is one or two players going to do against an enemy zerg?

Tag up and begin to form a squad that's more inclusive, but you can't because there is already only one zerg with an exclusionary commander leading it.

You wont have the numbers to do anything against a meta formed zerg. Or take players away from a meta formed zerg. People like to win. Its why there are meta professions to begin with.

[Jumpin Lumpix.6108]

@Rysdude.3824 said:

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

@Rysdude.3824 said:

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

@Samnang.1879 said:Then don't play those classes or don't join their squad.Why are you acting so self-entitled?

What are you supposed to do when they monopolize the only maps with enemy zergs in them?

What is one or two players going to do against an enemy zerg?

Tag up and begin to form a squad that's more inclusive, but you can't because there is already only one zerg with an exclusionary commander leading it.

You wont have the numbers to do anything against a meta formed zerg. Or take players away from a meta formed zerg. People like to win. Its why there are meta professions to begin with.

Actually with enough of this behavior going around I think we solved the problem as to why the wvw population had been dropping off, or at least one of the major reasons, but by all means carry on.

[Ashen.2907]

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

@Ashen.2907 said:

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

@Samnang.1879 said:Then don't play those classes or don't join their squad.Why are you acting so self-entitled?

What are you supposed to do when they monopolize the only maps with enemy zergs in them?

Not physically possible.

It happens all the time, enemy server has one zerg, other server has none and ours has one, it's a total monopoly.

It is not possible for a commander to monopolize a map. There is no way they can prevent you from being on the map, or following their zerg, or putting up your own tag.

[Jumpin Lumpix.6108]

@Ashen.2907 said:

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

@Ashen.2907 said:

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

@Samnang.1879 said:Then don't play those classes or don't join their squad.Why are you acting so self-entitled?

What are you supposed to do when they monopolize the only maps with enemy zergs in them?

Not physically possible.

It happens all the time, enemy server has one zerg, other server has none and ours has one, it's a total monopoly.

It is not possible for a commander to monopolize a map. There is no way they can prevent you from being on the map, or following their zerg, or putting up your own tag.

Yah it's just they take all the members because they were tagged up already and if you tag up you get yelled at, and following doesn't give you benefits as it does being in squad. You know how this works, for all intensive purposes it prevents you from engaging in desired group play.

[IndigoSundown.5419]

To fix, ANet implements two different types of commander tags. One identifies a squad dedicated to meta (or whatever that group wants) play. The other identifies a Pugmander, willing to take on militia. The people wanting a dedicated-to-a-particular-play-style group don't have to worry about non-conforming players and players wanting to play whatever need not waste time running to a tag only to find they are not wanted.

Requirement to fix: ANet needs to accept that we are not all one big happy community where everyone wants everyone else.

[Blocki.4931]

We run guild only squads all the time and people follow us without being in the squad. Staying on tag does the trick just fine.

[Vagrant.8613]

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

@Samnang.1879 said:

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

@Samnang.1879 said:Then don't play those classes or don't join their squad.Why are you acting so self-entitled?

What are you supposed to do when they monopolize the only maps with enemy zergs in them?

You can still follow the commander... it's not like they have the power to kick u off the map. I'm all for inclusion, fairness and kindness blah blah blah. But there is a legit reason why they don't want rangers and thieves, those classes don't provide any boons for the squad.

I'm the type of person to play any class i want in wvw... so i accept that fact, why can't others? Stop labelling everything as "toxic" and "abusive"... when things don't go the way you want.

Oh so we should have to compromise and not get the benefits of a squad because a commander tagged up and is being exclusionary, when they should be leading everyone. I'm very convinced now that if Anet had decided to make it so that squads were forced open in wvw from day one (like I suggest), that you would all be advocating that, that's the way it should be instead of what it is now.

Why should you get squad benefits if the commander feels like you aren't contributing back? Why should the commander compromise and accept you if you aren't running a build they want? Entitled much? Just run beside them.

[barei.8967]

• Go roaming
• Get your own tag
• Follow some other tag
• Go back to PvE
• Pay him/her tag worth for you to follow?Or just do what every other person who wants to do whatever they want, follow that tag being out of squad.

@Vagrant.8613 said:Why should you get squad benefits if the commander feels like you aren't contributing back? Why should the commander compromise and accept you if you aren't running a build they want? Entitled much? Just run beside them.

[Avelione.6075]

Whoa! I didn't expect such a big response to this topic! But I hope ANet will notice this problem and address it!From what I've read by looking through the discussion, some things hit me (I can't refer to all the replies here).

1. Some commanders like to win (only) and apparently they're not ok with losing at all (??). This brings me a though that they treat WvW too seriously. I still try to keep a distance to GW2. It is a game, there are things out there! (Unless u wanna be a pro-gamer or a pro-streamer, but it doesn't give you any more right to dictate how other random players need to play - for commanders and non commanders) And as a comm, you have much more choice than a pug player that has to take what they have currently on the map.
2. Commanding and playing as a "normal" player shouldn't be treated like one is superior and has right to dictate what others do/ Are we going to compare how much money/time one put in the game??
3. I think it's very complicated since we have a lot of people involved, with their own ideas how to play. But since EVERYONE are allowed to play WvW, I think it's still not fair to discriminate some players towards others. It creates toxic environment and makes many people discouraged if they are treated like unwanted trash :( And what does it say about a comm that treats others like his/her own toys and wants to mix and match professions as they please? It is NOT their game, it is everyone's' game, you like it or not. Running along a squad that doesn't want you is NO fun and you can get verbally harassed then even more easily ;p
4. I think it's a good idea proposed by IndigoSundown.5419 to introduce Pugmander (with a PUG tag, of course ;)) This is similar to what I suggested at the beginning. Make separate tags for comms that are chill with pugs and for those that have specified squad in mind.

If anyone feels offended by this, maybe you should ;p I try to look at the thing from as wide, social perspective as possible. Thanks!

[Jumpin Lumpix.6108]

@Vagrant.8613 said:

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

@Samnang.1879 said:

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

@Samnang.1879 said:Then don't play those classes or don't join their squad.Why are you acting so self-entitled?

What are you supposed to do when they monopolize the only maps with enemy zergs in them?

You can still follow the commander... it's not like they have the power to kick u off the map. I'm all for inclusion, fairness and kindness blah blah blah. But there is a legit reason why they don't want rangers and thieves, those classes don't provide any boons for the squad.

I'm the type of person to play any class i want in wvw... so i accept that fact, why can't others? Stop labelling everything as "toxic" and "abusive"... when things don't go the way you want.

Oh so we should have to compromise and not get the benefits of a squad because a commander tagged up and is being exclusionary, when they should be leading everyone. I'm very convinced now that if Anet had decided to make it so that squads were forced open in wvw from day one (like I suggest), that you would all be advocating that, that's the way it should be instead of what it is now.

Why should you get squad benefits if the commander feels like you aren't contributing back? Why should the commander compromise and accept you if you aren't running a build they want? Entitled much? Just run beside them.

why should a commander be allowed to command if he dosent include everyone, Why is he entitled to only include those he wants, in an OPEN game mode where the entire server participates? Other then thats the way the game currently runs, which should be changed.

[Ashen.2907]

@"Avelione.6075" said:Whoa! I didn't expect such a big response to this topic! But I hope ANet will notice this problem and address it!From what I've read by looking through the discussion, some things hit me (I can't refer to all the replies here).

1. Some commanders like to win (only) and apparently they're not ok with losing at all (??). This brings me a though that they treat WvW too seriously. I still try to keep a distance to GW2. It is a game, there are things out there! (Unless u wanna be a pro-gamer or a pro-streamer, but it doesn't give you any more right to dictate how other random players need to play - for commanders and non commanders) And as a comm, you have much more choice than a pug player that has to take what they have currently on the map.
2. Commanding and playing as a "normal" player shouldn't be treated like one is superior and has right to dictate what others do/ Are we going to compare how much money/time one put in the game??
3. I think it's very complicated since we have a lot of people involved, with their own ideas how to play. But since EVERYONE are allowed to play WvW, I think it's still not fair to discriminate some players towards others. It creates toxic environment and makes many people discouraged if they are treated like unwanted trash :( And what does it say about a comm that treats others like his/her own toys and wants to mix and match professions as they please? It is NOT their game, it is everyone's' game, you like it or not. Running along a squad that doesn't want you is NO fun and you can get verbally harassed then even more easily ;p
4. I think it's a good idea proposed by IndigoSundown.5419 to introduce Pugmander (with a PUG tag, of course ;)) This is similar to what I suggested at the beginning. Make separate tags for comms that are chill with pugs and for those that have specified squad in mind.

If anyone feels offended by this, maybe you should ;p I try to look at the thing from as wide, social perspective as possible. Thanks!

The commander is not dictating how your random player plays, but you are suggesting that a random player should be allowed to dictate how everyone else does.

You dont own other people. Asking that they be required to be subservient to you is more toxic than a group of people deciding to play together in a certain way and being open to have anyone else with a similar playstyle interest join them.

[anonymous.7812]

Let's apply it to PvE too. I think I should be able to force myself into ANY organized Raid, click 1 a lot, and win. Nobody should be able to tell me no, I should not have to get better, or bring a useful class/spec/gear. We should all get participation trophies, we're all #1 right?

[Moonlit.6421]

@"anonymous.7812" said:Let's apply it to PvE too. I think I should be able to force myself into ANY organized Raid, click 1 a lot, and win. Nobody should be able to tell me no, I should not have to get better, or bring a useful class/spec/gear. We should all get participation trophies, we're all #1 right?

Thank you for giving me something to smile at after reading the cringe that was this thread. I happen to see a WvW thread in the general discussions forums and thought "oh hey heres something new" and I find this. Good gosh theres so many fragile feelings thread being made about WvW lately, what is the deal.

Side note to throw in my 2 cents while I will agree that commanders saying they don't want X class is a little sucky as others have said it is their squad and they do have reasons. You could always run with them out of squad, roam separately, or join another tag/tag up yourself though. Personally I've been playin WvW actively on my server for years and never experienced this, though I suppose that might change when the alliance system kicks in. Dwayna knows some of the threads I've been seeing lately like this one fill me with some fear when I think of who I may be paired with...

[Pretty Pixie.8603]

Of course WvW guilds/commanders want to win fights. That's what the game mode is about. This isn't any different than being picked last for dodgeball. Although here you get the choice to actually add more to your team. If the team is competitive, don't expect them to be happy with a weaker (by choice) player.

My guild often runs open. We fill out groups with guildies first, according to our comp, before assigning people in TS. We tend to invite other people as well, regardless of class, because then you can at least put them in a group that improves overall effectiveness. They're generally going to be following anyway, and being snarky in chat only reflects poorly on your guild for possible future recruits.

[dolcolax.1268]

shouldnt this be in wvw subforum? commanders and their underlings can tell you what they want. if they get abusive by bullying you or something like that, can just report and block. also they cant stop you from following them(except when theyre running tagless). ive just been pugging lately(except guild raid) even when the commanders are inviting me. its doable when you know how to play the class your using. its precisely the fact that theres not a lot of commanders tagging up or willing to tag that we need to be proactive in playing the game. flip those camps defend structures scout and most importantly harvest all the nodes.