[Dungeons] Please make the Story Mode soloable

[Kal Spiro.9745]

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Ashantara.8731 said:

@"HnRkLnXqZ.1870" said:There are a few exploration-paths which require to be in a party with 2-5 people.

I am talking about story mode only. And no, I do not find 2 hours acceptable for a "solo challenge". I want the story modes to be soloable just like the story missions, not some advanced hard mode challenge. 2-3 people still does not equal 1.But the story mode dungeons

are

soloable so I fail to see the point. Its not easy - you're gonna want a raid build if you are good or a cheese build (like say a minion master healer scourge or soulbeast exploiting the immortal pet, etc) and its probably gonna kill you a couple times (or ten) but its not that complicated.

Some of the explorable paths are soloable as well.

Having a handful of builds with specifically good gear able to solo a thing is not the same thing as it being soloable. Being Soloable means that anyone in any gear in any build has a chance to beat it. The personal story is soloable. The Story Dungeon for Arah is soloable.

I would very much like to see the story modes for the dungeons get the same treatment as Arah. I would also like to see them added into the personal story as required episodes. I've made this argument before. The only times you have to see Destiny's Edge during the story is at level 30 when they come together to complain, when you learn about them and their issues in the dream with trahern and at the end. If the story dungeons were part of the personal story then we would be exposed to their in fighting and eventual reconciliation making the scene where they come together in Arah make more sense and be a better story. And honestly it is a good story, but it's a pain to actually try to experience because you need a group and they might not be willing to wait for the story to happen.

[SunTzu.4513]

Open a group on the LFG including: story, erverybody welcome and video watching. This will fill up fast in the prime time. Also guildmates are a viable option. No need for a solo mode.

[GreyWolf.8670]

@"Linken.6345" said:Well the problem that lfg is empty is becouse people are afraid to put up their own lfg to find people for some reason.

Every dungeon I've listed as "SM, anyone welcome" fills up within a minute. I'm wondering how many people even try listing before they say nobody wants to play them. :P

IMO it's LFG that needs a revamp rather than the dungeon story paths.

[Linken.6345]

@GreyWolf.8670 said:

@"Linken.6345" said:Well the problem that lfg is empty is becouse people are afraid to put up their own lfg to find people for some reason.

Every dungeon I've listed as "SM, anyone welcome" fills up within a minute. I'm wondering how many people even try listing before they say nobody wants to play them. :P

IMO it's LFG that needs a revamp rather than the dungeon story paths.

Yea should be same as raid one you just type in what dungeon you want to do, instead of having to check every tab to see if anyones looking for some other dungeon you may want to do, before you put up your own lfg.

[Devildoc.6721]

@"Linken.6345" said:Well the problem that lfg is empty is becouse people are afraid to put up their own lfg to find people for some reason.

Part of that issue is that when you post the group people expect you to lead, and you get a lot of new players who don't know the instance looking to you to tell them what to do. but sometimes the "leader" is just as clueless.

[Devildoc.6721]

@SunTzu.4513 said:Open a group on the LFG including: story, erverybody welcome and video watching. This will fill up fast in the prime time. Also guildmates are a viable option. No need for a solo mode.

Not always. I've sat on a lfg for story mode Arah (before they made it soloable) for hours at a time in primetime before.

[Linken.6345]

@Devildoc.6721 said:

@"Linken.6345" said:Well the problem that lfg is empty is becouse people are afraid to put up their own lfg to find people for some reason.

Part of that issue is that when you post the group people expect you to lead, and you get a lot of new players who don't know the instance looking to you to tell them what to do. but sometimes the "leader" is just as clueless.

Well thats a problem since noone knows who put up the lfg anyway not like you get marked as leader so just put it up if noone knows the dungeon go explore it.EditHave never ever been asked to lead anything when i have put up lfg in dungeons or fractals.

[Linken.6345]

Honestly how do people think that groups did when the game was new?There is guides out there now that we dident have if your the second or third wave into said content do what we did and explore them or look up a guides the kind community have plastered all over the internet.

[Hyper Cutter.9376]

@"Kal Spiro.9745" said:Having a handful of builds with specifically good gear able to solo a thing is not the same thing as it being soloable. Being Soloable means that anyone in any gear in any build has a chance to beat it. The personal story is soloable. The Story Dungeon for Arah is soloable.Yeah, that. People need to stop going "well I (or someone similarly skilled) can solo this therefore beep boop everyone can". The majority of players aren't going to be able to do that.

I would very much like to see the story modes for the dungeons get the same treatment as Arah. I would also like to see them added into the personal story as required episodes. I've made this argument before. The only times you have to see Destiny's Edge during the story is at level 30 when they come together to complain, when you learn about them and their issues in the dream with trahern and at the end. If the story dungeons were part of the personal story then we would be exposed to their in fighting and eventual reconciliation making the scene where they come together in Arah make more sense and be a better story. And honestly it is a good story, but it's a pain to actually try to experience because you need a group and they might not be willing to wait for the story to happen.I agree, they should have done all of them along with Arah and for this exact reason.

[Devildoc.6721]

@Linken.6345 said:

@Devildoc.6721 said:

@Linken.6345 said:Well the problem that lfg is empty is becouse people are afraid to put up their own lfg to find people for some reason.

Part of that issue is that when you post the group people expect you to lead, and you get a lot of new players who don't know the instance looking to you to tell them what to do. but sometimes the "leader" is just as clueless.

Well thats a problem since noone knows who put up the lfg anyway not like you get marked as leader so just put it up if noone knows the dungeon go explore it.EditHave never ever been asked to lead anything when i have put up lfg in dungeons or fractals.

I'm pretty sure if you start the LFG it considers you the group leader, as you can stop recruiting or if someone quits you're the one who can advertise to search for new group members.

[Ashantara.8731]

UPDATE:

Okay, so I just finished the Ascalonian Catacombs and Caudecus' Manor solo. While it was indeed doable, it felt more like back in the good old GW1 days, when one was soloing elite instances (for farming purposes), rather than playing a GW2 story mission. AC was fairly simple with my Dragonhunter (I know that dungeon by heart), but in CM I died two or three times, because I don't know the story mode mission by heart and didn't know which groups would aggro at which distance nor their follow radius.

The fact that your companions don't help you back up when you are downed did not make it more pleasant an experience, either. Also, keep in mind that you often need to take breaks between mobs for your DPS skills (like traps) to recharge, as you are the only one dealing DPS, which feels different too compared to solo story missions where everythings works differently.

Ergo, this is definitely not what I meant when I wrote "Please make the story mode dungeons soloable", because it requires absolute knowledge of the content upon entering. I'd still kindly ask the devs to make the story mode like any other story mission. (P.S. The rewards aren't worth the trouble, either. I am certain that scaling either the difficulty level or the rewards wouldn't be that much of a hassle, or would it?)

[Devildoc.6721]

@Linken.6345 said:Honestly how do people think that groups did when the game was new?There is guides out there now that we dident have if your the second or third wave into said content do what we did and explore them or look up a guides the kind community have plastered all over the internet.

There were a lot more people needing to do them, and guilds were more interested in doing them since they needed them to unlock too, and once you unlocked explorables they were sources of some of the best loot in the game, best gold farms in game etc. they were just a lot more in demand. Now they're essentially dead content.

[Devildoc.6721]

@"Ashantara.8731" said:UPDATE:

Okay, so I just finished the Ascalonian Catacombs and Caudecus' Manor solo. While it was indeed doable, it felt more like back in the good old GW1 days, when one was soloing elite instances (for farming purposes), rather than playing a GW2 story mission. AC was fairly simple with my Dragonhunter (I know that dungeon by heart), but in CM I died two or three times, because I don't know the story mode mission by heart and didn't know which groups would aggro at which distance nor their follow radius.

The fact that your companions don't help you back up when you are downed did not make it more pleasant an experience, either. Also, keep in mind that you often need to take breaks between mobs for your DPS skills (like traps) to recharge, as you are the only one dealing DPS, which feels different too compared to solo story missions where everythings works differently.

Ergo, this is definitely not what I meant when I wrote "Please make the story mode dungeons soloable", because it requires absolute knowledge of the content upon entering. I'd still kindly ask the devs to make the story mode like any other story mission. (P.S. The rewards aren't worth the trouble, either. I am certain that scaling either the difficulty level or the rewards wouldn't be that much of a hassle, or would it?)

I do wonder, if the Destiny's Edge characters that accompany you to the dungeon story modes did noticeable damage and used skills to give boons to you or give conditions to enemies and tried to revive you when downed if that would make up a considerable amount of the difference. They do these things in story quests in a fashion that they can't do the quest without your help, but they also do help you in noticeable ways like reviving, Kasmeer spamming time warps, etc.

[Ashantara.8731]

UPDATE #2:

Sorrow's Embrace is unsoloable with my Guardian. The dredge at the Inquest door that Zojja attempts to unlock respawn indefinitely, and the AoE they do it immense. You cannot dodge, heal, and resurrect Zojja all the time while also trying to kill them. It's insane to claim that all dungeons were soloable, at least not with every profession -- and what's the point then when you want to unlock the dungeon with a specific character? No, this is not acceptable.

Will need to find people to do this with, but I hate how everyone skips the dialogue sequences and then you find yourself alone (and often in peril) when you try to catch up with your team. :/

ANet needed to redo certain aspects of the dungeons before they abandoned them in favor of fractals. :angry:

[Linken.6345]

@Devildoc.6721 said:

@Linken.6345 said:

@Devildoc.6721 said:

@Linken.6345 said:Well the problem that lfg is empty is becouse people are afraid to put up their own lfg to find people for some reason.

Part of that issue is that when you post the group people expect you to lead, and you get a lot of new players who don't know the instance looking to you to tell them what to do. but sometimes the "leader" is just as clueless.

Well thats a problem since noone knows who put up the lfg anyway not like you get marked as leader so just put it up if noone knows the dungeon go explore it.EditHave never ever been asked to lead anything when i have put up lfg in dungeons or fractals.

I'm pretty sure if you start the LFG it considers you the group leader, as you can stop recruiting or if someone quits you're the one who can advertise to search for new group members.

Thats raid your thinking of only commanders and leiutenants can search for those fractals and dungeons anyone in said group can edit, disable and reenable lfg.

[Eramonster.2718]

The problem can easily be solved by having friends in-game. Like I mentioned before, players interacting in GW2 is still weak (guilds doesn't play a role etc) and catering solo plays for a MMO is a horrible idea.

[Ashantara.8731]

@Eramonster.2718 said:The problem can easily be solved by having friends in-game.

That's not the point. I do have guild mates, I can always find someone by LFG as well if I want to.

I am saying that story mode should be soloable, because it is 100% part of the campaign's story, not something seperate like fractals or raids, thus should be treated as story missions (hence be soloable).

[flog.3485]

@Ashantara.8731 said:

@Eramonster.2718 said:The problem can easily be solved by having friends in-game.

That's not the point. I do have guild mates, I can always find someone by LFG as well if I want to.

I am saying that story mode should be soloable, because it is 100% part of the campaign's story, not something seperate like fractals or raids, thus should be treated as story missions (hence be soloable).

Just chiming in...Honestly that is a weak argument you have here. Dungeon story mode is not part of the story because it doesn’t require to play the dungeons to lvl up and advance your story.

[Hyper Cutter.9376]

@flog.3485 said:

@Ashantara.8731 said:

@"Eramonster.2718" said:The problem can easily be solved by having friends in-game.

That's not the point. I do have guild mates, I can always find someone by LFG as well if I want to.

I am saying that story mode should be soloable, because it is 100% part of the campaign's story, not something seperate like fractals or raids, thus should be treated as story missions (hence be soloable).

Just chiming in...Honestly that is a weak argument you have here. Dungeon story mode is not part of the story because it doesn’t require to play the dungeons to lvl up and advance your story.

It's part of the story because if you just go from "everyone hates each other" in that meeting in LA to "everyone is friends again somehow" in Victory or Death, it doesn't make any sense. Everything between those points plays out in the dungeon story modes.

[flog.3485]

@Hyper Cutter.9376 said:

@flog.3485 said:

@Ashantara.8731 said:

@"Eramonster.2718" said:The problem can easily be solved by having friends in-game.

That's not the point. I do have guild mates, I can always find someone by LFG as well if I want to.

I am saying that story mode should be soloable, because it is 100% part of the campaign's story, not something seperate like fractals or raids, thus should be treated as story missions (hence be soloable).

Just chiming in...Honestly that is a weak argument you have here. Dungeon story mode is not part of the story because it doesn’t require to play the dungeons to lvl up and advance your story.

It's part of the story because if you just go from "everyone hates each other" in that meeting in LA to "everyone is friends again somehow" in Victory or Death, it doesn't make any sense. Everything between those points plays out in the dungeon story modes.

Then they should have made dungeons required to play through and scale its content based on how many players entered the instance. Because, at low lvl, when players have the choice to either play dungeons (with the potential risk of running into toxic players) or casually lvl-up in open world, I think most would choose the path of least resistance (and when you would peruse the LFG back at dungeons hayday, I would also point out that most group requests were LvL 80 only).

As for the story aspect, I don't necessarily agree with you. It feels much more like side story to me because the story leads you to kill zhaitan and whatever happens in the dungeons is totally irrevelant to it.

[Devildoc.6721]

@Eramonster.2718 said:The problem can easily be solved by having friends in-game. Like I mentioned before, players interacting in GW2 is still weak (guilds doesn't play a role etc) and catering solo plays for a MMO is a horrible idea.

Even friends don't want to be bothered running through story mode most the time.

[Rodrick.1942]

@"Orpheal.8263" said:All it needs anet to do would be the implementation of a Companion System, which allows to use your own Account Characters as Party Members and command them like herooes either, or switch play between them and yiur current played Main Character that is the Party Leader which that you logged in and whose story progression the game is following for the moment you are playing.

That way would become most of all dungeon paths easily soloable, without that anet has to do really much about them.A feature, which would at the same time improve also the roleplay aspects of the game, if you could play this way for example together with related to each other characters, like for example a brother which travels around with his sister character, if you have two characters on your account with the same family names ...for exampleI know myself, I'd be making somethign like that, giving my main character another family member at her side, if I could play them both that way with a Compansion System at the same time, switching based on the situation between them both, while the Ai takes over in the moment the control of the character from that i am switching away to the other Character whose control I take over at the moment from the AI... that would be truly interactive and inoovative gameplay, that doesn#t exist yet in this way in any mmmorpg ive ever seen or know ... and it would be a clear imprvement over the basic hero system from GW1, which just barely allowed you only to command cheaply your heros and affect their builds, when when it woudl have been necessary, you couldnt just switcch between characters and take over the control self, when you'd know, in situation x would you handle it with character Y of your party self better, than lettign the AI do it and fail and what it should do, due to the situation and task beign too difficult and complex for the Ai to grasp and know, what it should do best in that moment, where a real player wouldnt be overwhelmed with, but easily able to handle the situation due to havign the required natural intelligent to know what do do, where a siomple stupid Ai does not have that and follows just only after its 0s and 1s and decides plainly after soem kind of algorythms which can simulate the most important thing that is required in having success - personal experience!!

The situation that dungeons get more and more abandoned by players won't change and surely won#t ever become better, when ANet even self completely has abandonded that part of their own game and doesnt give it any form of support anymore to improve this content...So it is clearly understandable why people want this content to become soloable..

But for this does not need to be the difficulty of the content to get dumbed down, or rewards to be increased.All that is needed is only an improved form of the Heroes under a new Companion System..

Originally Anet even hat plans to give the game a Companion System.. under ANets earlier plans for this feature it was planned originalyl that players in PvE should all have 1 NPC Companion. But ANets plans on a Companion System beign part of GW2 got scratched and never found its way into the game.However, now are 6 years later after release. Alot has changed in this time, the games community is by far not so much active anymore in PvE, especialyl the older content, than 6 years ago when that content was fresh and new for everybody, so its just normal, that old content needs to become over time also soloable, so that it stay DOABLE, for when simply the time comes that you find no other players for the old content anymore, or searchign for other players becomes an ABSURD CHORE OF WAITING...

Thats in fact the exact same reason, why there exists in GW1 Henchmen, so that people had at least the option to create a NPC Party for these kinds of situations where you want to do something, but just simply find not enough people at the time you want to do the content, so that you were able to fill up the empty slots at least with a NPC helper, -which is just a suboptimal help, but still better, than nothing, until ANet improved that system with the implementation of Heroes, which became quickly superior to henchmen, due to players beign able to let them use their own synergized builds to create optimal team setups to overcome this way aloen the power differences in PvE content, which were used to be there to force peopel to make up partys.However, the problem with Heroes in GW1 was, that Naet allowed there usage for everywhere in the game, which resulted naturally that players, who found out the most optimal synergy party build with that they were able to do from then on everythign alone, never saw a reason again to play together with other people, leadign to the point that GW1 formed itself more and more into a MMOSG for practicalyl Massive Multiplayer Online Solo Game, which is so ironical, that it is funny.

That is why , despite GW2 needing absolutely the implementation of a Companion System as improved version of Heroes, Anet should learn this tiem from their mistakes they did with such a system in GW1 and don#t repeast the same mistakes with a Companion System here again by simply making directly from the start sure, that Companions this time won't be useable just everywhere, and if everywhere, then only in a very limitated way.

Companions in GW2 should be only useable in instanced content and in general persistent PvE Maps, this means:

• Normal PvE Map Exploration
• Dungeons
• Personal Story
• Fractals
• Raids

In regard of Raids they should be only useable as Fill Ups of maximum 3 that only the Party Leader can add, so that a Raid Squad still needs at least 7 real players to begin the instance, making it this way a bit easier to get a full party together, than having to wait for gettting 10 real people together.In Regard of Fractals that amount of Companions is reduced from 3 to maximum 1, that the Party Leader can add, so there youd also still need to have at least 4 people.

In Dungeons and Personal Story you could add up to 4 Companions, so that you can play the Content completely alone.

Having Access to Companions would get unlocked via gaining Levels.Level 10 = Unlock 1st Companion SlotLevel 25 = Unlock 2nd Companion SlotLevel 40 = Unlock 3rd Companion SlotLevel 60 = Unlock last Companion Slot

Companions would be not useable naturally in

• PvP
• WvW

and they be automaticalyl replaced the very moment a real player joins the party/squad to literally replace them...So if you are going for doing a Lvl 70 Dungeon for example, you have made your Party up and put in 4 Companions into your party and created then a LFG for your Dungeon Run and somebody joins on that LFG Search then your party, the first added Companion of your party will get instantly replaced by that real player, the next time someone joins again, it will be the second added Companion that wil lget replaced by that real palyer and so on in this order, which will go on this way, until you start the Dungeon instance or you naturally remove your LFG Search first so that others have no chance of joining your party that way anymore, unless you invite somebody to your party by yourself, which will then also replace automatucally a Companion of your Party, unless the party is at that moment not full.

Adding a Companion System is not really a huge effort, because its not adding any new content, like it woudl be the case of addign henchmen, which need to be created by Anet - as companions we are already using our self made characters, so no effort for Anet.

The effort in such a system is basicalyl only the UI works that is required to make it possibly to add our own characters that are linked to our account into our Party. That connection between our account and our characters needs to be transformed into a system mechanic, that lets the game recognize our account characters as added Party Members that are then taken by the AI under control like heroes, until we give them naually commands or switch over to them from our Main Characters we play at the moment of the Character Switch.

And the only effort would be adding the unlock mechanic for Companion Slots, but that shouldn't be really difficult to make and add to the game.

PS: here the original stuff about Anets Companion Planshttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Companion

By rereading that Article I remember even, that ANets plans were originally having Companions even not count as Party members to fill up slots, but work as some kind of extension similar to how pets work for Rangers.But under my personal concept of this, I don't see them as extensions, they definetely should count as equal party members that take up their own slot, so that we don't need to get debuffed for usign them, but their usage needs limitations. They are not extensions under my concept, but rather you can see them as NPC Allies that you can just simply command like a true Commander should have his loyal legion of soldiers on his side towhom he/she gives commands. allies and frieds to whom you have full trust. Persons who would die for you literally and which are with you bonded in a strong way, that you can perform with them things, which are possible only with them (Character Switching/ Switch Combo Skills for example).

This is an online game , not Dragon Age - origin

[sokeenoppa.5384]

Dungeons are Part of story yes, but not part of personal story. Therefore its perfectly fine that they cant be soloed. Same thing for raids

[Orpheal.8263]

This is no argument, and you know that.Why are people always under the false opinion, that only because a game has an online component, that it has to force everybody to play always together...It is a MMORPG, which stands just only for Massively Multiplayer online Roleplaying Game which means nothiung else but just only, that alot of people are playing online the same game either together, or against each other, or for themself alone, while others can be around you in the same game world, without that you need to interact with them, nor are you, or should you ever get forced by the game to do so.

So, by your words.. this is a MMORPG - not a FPTMMORPG for actually a "Forced Play Together-Version"...

Who are you even to decide over me, how I should play GW2 and why should I be forced as player to endure the chore of searching for several hours for other players, just so that I can play the content of the game i want to do, if this could be simply just solved by a Companion System.It is my decision. NOT YOURS!And as part of my own free decision, it should be normal also for a game like GW2 - once the demand for such a feature should become stronger, that Anet should add it to the game as a quality of life improvement to help playing the game' content, even when parts of this game have become over time harder to play and totally deserted due to missing player activity, that expecting from the playerbase to search for multiple hours for other players becomes ABSURD...Because meanwhile in that time that people waste for searching for other players, could you have done the game content you want to do already with your own compansions eventually sucessfully, before in certain cases has joined even only 1 single person maybe your LFG ...

[Devildoc.6721]

There's only a few reasons this really even becomes an issue is if you try to join a group for an explorable dungeon path and NOBODY has story mode done in the group. There's 2 options: Run the story mode in that group, which sometimes happens, or.. the group falls apart, which is more common because story mode simply isn't worth the time because it's so unrewarding.

The other issue is.. if you want to enjoy the story/cutscenes and all that, a group of players, having already seen it all, will be rushing you "hurry up, skip the cutscenes, lets just kill the boss" Solo you'd be free to enjoy the cutscenes and dialogue if it's your first time.