Conjured Weapons

[Imperadordf.2687]

Well, Ammo system sounds pretty good but some of them really need to be shared. For example; Weaver giving FGS to Chrono in Escort to get to tower faster and Lightning Hammer to solo or 2-man the tower. It's kind of a dilemma :c

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

@Imperadordf.2687 said:Well, Ammo system sounds pretty good but some of them really need to be shared. For example; Weaver giving FGS to Chrono in Escort to get to tower faster and Lightning Hammer to solo or 2-man the tower. It's kind of a dilemma :c

Nope. I would rather they remove the effect of dropping them for others. They have their own abilities, movement skills and such and it should be up to that player to use them. They shouldnt be relying on another classes 180second cool down elite to have mobility. Especially as Chrono has 25% movement as well as Blinks.

I say remove the dropped one, buff them up for the Ele and make them like a kit.

[ButcherofMalakir.4067]

Eng. already have kits. Dont know why ele should have same mechanic when there is no problem with conjures now

[Legendofzelda.1278]

Because there are problems with conjures I don't see the need to make them exactly like kits with no cd but they should have more access and I am also in favor of them not having a second on the ground if it means better ability to use them.

[Vagrant.7206]

@Conqueror.3682 said:

@Imperadordf.2687 said:

• Because Conjured Weapons are much more stronger than Kits.
• Kits exist because Engineer weapons suck, Ele weapons don't.
• You would need to nerf Conjured Weapons a lot because otherwise Ele DPS on average hitbox would be like 41-42K, everyone will complain. They do a lot already.

Well a condi engineer per example, have some pistol skills in their rotation, so engineer skills are not exactly bad.

The skills in the rotation from Engineer's weapons are the best of those damage skills (blowtorch, blunderbuss, jump shot, etc). Engineer autoattacks in general are extremely weak, and only a few skills are worth using on any given engineer weapon, typically with a long cooldown. Kits are needed to make up the disparity of time in which engineer has to twiddle their thumbs otherwise. An ele can switch attunements. An engineer cannot switch weapons.

@Nath Forge Tempete.1645 said:

@Nephalem.8921 said:

@Hoodie.1045 said:

why aren't conjured weapons like engineering kits? I mean, why aren't they 'permanent'? Is it because we already have 4 attunements? And would you like conjuredweapons to work like engineering kits, or would that make zero sense for this class?

The reason why they are not permanent is because you can give these conjured weapons to allies, whereas the Engineers' kits cannot be given to allies. Besides, it's useless to use conjured weapons with Elementalist, because Elementalist has far better ways of dealing damage.

Conjured Weapons are meta in pve builds. Sharing them to druid/chrono is also very good in fractals. Elementalist has also very strong weapon skills while engineer has almost only trash weapon skills. Only good solo weapon is scrapper's hammer. All the other weapons lack on so many areas that they are only usuable with kits. Holosmith's forge is a kit with a cooldown and time mechanic.

Rifle has no dps for example and only decent burst. Pistol has blowtorch. Sword has only aa etc. Some conjured should have shorter cooldowns though. Earth shield is a quite good defensive option. The 1min cooldown just kills it.

So in short. Elementalist can be good without conjures while engineer can't be without kits. Only exception is scrapper but thats an elite spec. All the other builds need kits to work.

while I agree with you that conjure weapons is meta in pve ... i totally disagree with the fact that kits for engineers is a must have ... holosmith in spvp uses none so . But yeah in pve they are needs for dps when waiting for photon forge to come back.

Photon Forge is functionally a kit. It behaves in much the same way, it's just got some extra mechanics attached to it.

And since you mentioned condi engineer back at launch... you ever wonder why it's no longer viable in sPvP? Both engineer's weapons and kits have aged poorly when compared against the powercreep. They're slow and clunky, deal lackluster damage for the amount of effort you put in, etc. Photon Forge is basically a kit that has the best of multiple kits smacked into one.

[Nath Forge Tempete.1645]

@Vagrant.7206 said:

Photon Forge is functionally a kit. It behaves in much the same way, it's just got some extra mechanics attached to it.

And since you mentioned condi engineer back at launch... you ever wonder why it's no longer viable in sPvP? Both engineer's weapons and kits have aged poorly when compared against the powercreep. They're slow and clunky, deal lackluster damage for the amount of effort you put in, etc. Photon Forge is basically a kit that has the best of multiple kits smacked into one.

Just fonctionally then ! cause any kit trait doesn't work with photon forge :) and it's an ele thread here :tired_face:

[Vagrant.7206]

@Nath Forge Tempete.1645 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:

Photon Forge is functionally a kit. It behaves in much the same way, it's just got some extra mechanics attached to it.

And since you mentioned condi engineer back at launch... you ever wonder why it's no longer viable in sPvP? Both engineer's weapons and kits have aged poorly when compared against the powercreep. They're slow and clunky, deal lackluster damage for the amount of effort you put in, etc. Photon Forge is basically a kit that has the best of multiple kits smacked into one.

Just fonctionally then ! cause any kit trait doesn't work with photon forge :) and it's an ele thread here :tired_face:

Aye, but you bring up engineers, so we have to discuss it.

And yes, that is a bit of a sore sticking point for engineers, thanks for reminding us.

[Jski.6180]

They realty need to add in a healing conjured wepon say a water maces. I mean they just updated med kit on eng to being a supports dream tool why not give conjured weapons that type of wepon but with its duration and cd.

[Imperadordf.2687]

@Jski.6180 said:They realty need to add in a healing conjured wepon say a water maces. I mean they just updated med kit on eng to being a supports dream tool why not give conjured weapons that type of wepon but with its duration and cd.

I'd love Flame Axe getting replaced by something useful like a Water Mace as you said. We already have FGS as a Fire-based Conjure.

[Jski.6180]

@Imperadordf.2687 said:

@Jski.6180 said:They realty need to add in a healing conjured wepon say a water maces. I mean they just updated med kit on eng to being a supports dream tool why not give conjured weapons that type of wepon but with its duration and cd.

I'd love Flame Axe getting replaced by something useful like a Water Mace as you said. We already have FGS as a Fire-based Conjure.

I am asking for a heal skill that puts out a water maces not just another utitly slot skill.

[Imperadordf.2687]

@Jski.6180 said:

@Imperadordf.2687 said:

@Jski.6180 said:They realty need to add in a healing conjured wepon say a water maces. I mean they just updated med kit on eng to being a supports dream tool why not give conjured weapons that type of wepon but with its duration and cd.

I'd love Flame Axe getting replaced by something useful like a Water Mace as you said. We already have FGS as a Fire-based Conjure.

I am asking for a heal skill that puts out a water maces not just another utitly slot skill.

Oh wait. My bad .-. Forgot there was no Conjure Heal skill.

[Haco.1546]

@Jski.6180 said:They realty need to add in a healing conjured wepon say a water maces. I mean they just updated med kit on eng to being a supports dream tool why not give conjured weapons that type of wepon but with its duration and cd.

@Imperadordf.2687 said:

@Jski.6180 said:They realty need to add in a healing conjured wepon say a water maces. I mean they just updated med kit on eng to being a supports dream tool why not give conjured weapons that type of wepon but with its duration and cd.

I'd love Flame Axe getting replaced by something useful like a Water Mace as you said. We already have FGS as a Fire-based Conjure.

And/Or the Wind daggers in which you cut so fast the air that can use this in your favor (after all, 90% of the air skills use lightning and lightning Hammer, would love to see skills that use the wind).

[Conncept.7638]

Because that would make the elementalist ridiculously overpowered, just like if you gave the engineer the ability to swap between four weapons. More skills equals higher utility, more sustain, more damage, more of basically everything; especially when one considers that kits do not have cooldowns.

Conjured weapons 100% need to be redesigned, just as surely as turning them into kits is the absolute worst suggestion for how to do it, so much so that I cannot understand how it gets suggested so incredibly often.

[Coldtart.4785]

@Conncept.7638 said:Because that would make the elementalist ridiculously overpowered, just like if you gave the engineer the ability to swap between four weapons. More skills equals higher utility, more sustain, more damage, more of basically everything; especially when one considers that kits do not have cooldowns.

Conjured weapons 100% need to be redesigned, just as surely as turning them into kits is the absolute worst suggestion for how to do it, so much so that I cannot understand how it gets suggested so incredibly often.

Sacrificing a utility slot on ele is nothing like sacrificing one on engi. When you slot a kit on engi you still get a toolbelt skill out of it; do that on an ele and you get nothing. Furthermore, ele is absolutely dependent on its utility skills to be able to function at all; giving up a slot that could be used for another defensive skill is a huge loss. Lastly, they don't have to work exactly the same way as kits. You could still have cast times on summoning them and/or bring back the ammo count and cooldown so you can't use their skills more than x times per y seconds while still being able to swap in and out of a conjure until running out of time or ammo.

[Conncept.7638]

@Coldtart.4785 said:Sacrificing a utility slot on ele is nothing like sacrificing one on engi.

You're right, engineers are sacrificing a whopping 1/15th of their active skills while we're only losing 1/25th. Forgive me for understating how horrible an idea this is.

[Jski.6180]

@Conncept.7638 said:

@"Coldtart.4785" said:Sacrificing a utility slot on ele is nothing like sacrificing one on engi.

You're right, engineers are sacrificing a whopping 1/15th of their active skills while we're only losing 1/25th. Forgive me for understating how horrible an idea this is.

Utility on ele are stronger and more important then an elite skill so it means a lot for ele to give up that utitly skill.

Its ok for it not to be a kit but if its not a kit there a high risk of using it so it should be stronger then an eng kits. You give up all of your skills and the only way to get them back is to give up a 1 min cd skill.

Conjured wepon should be stronger then ele base skills and there needs to be a "healing" skill one that is a support tool on its own.

[apharma.3741]

Tbh I’d like to see conjures changed, remove the giving to allies, reduce CD to 20s or so and have them work like pseudo kits. Then rework every conjure to follow a single theme, frost bow becomes support, healing and cleansing, hammer melee heavy damage with blasts, earth shield defence, axe condi dps and FGS is just AoE destruction summoning volcanoes and stuff.

[Coldtart.4785]

@Conncept.7638 said:

@Coldtart.4785 said:Sacrificing a utility slot on ele is nothing like sacrificing one on engi.

You're right, engineers are sacrificing a whopping 1/15th of their active skills while we're only losing 1/25th. Forgive me for understating how horrible an idea this is.

Defensive utility skills are what makes ele playable at all. Sacrificing even one cantrip/arcane shield/shout/twist of fate etc. is utterly crippling; you should get something amazing in return. Engi still gets to have defensive utilities even when running triple kits due to things like toolkit block or elixir gun toolbelt. The number of skills isn't relevant at all. Someone using an ele avatar should surely know this by now.

[LazySummer.2568]

i mean i still dont know why fgs has a 3 min cd when eles in all game modes basically summons them, use at most 3 abilities, and immediately drop them; except when they are trying to run in which they will keep it only a little bit longer until they are at a safe distance. It's not even as good as moa, which can have their cds reduced by traits while eles get some trash trait that reduces the conjured weapons' abilities' cd instead of summon cd.

Frost bow giving healing power & condi duration boost also makes 0 sense when it's a dps weapon with all its damage coming from power while the healing from 1 is so pitiful it probably doesnt even heal more than random, passive regens given to someone through traits