Reaper

Zalavaaris.5329 · May 11, 2018

@Obtena.7952 said:
@Zalavaaris.5329 said:
@Oldirtbeard.9834 said:
@"Kheldorn.5123" said:Why would you use BiP in group content when might is covered by duid?

What's a Duid, and what kind of puritanical mind set makes groups so closed off to trying different comps, that out look is so World of Warcraft Burning Crusade, most MMOs have moved way past that in the past 10 years?

I've been thinking of this myself. WoW was very similar back in its inception with regards to raiding. Only certain classes were taken and it was all very laid out and organized. I hope in GW2s future it becomes more like wow is today where it's more about the player and less about the specific class.

GW2 already does that ... the range of comps you can play as a raid group and win is very large ... large enough to accomodate anyone that wants to play a specific class.

You're very right! My commentary was about the community.

Obtena.7952 · May 11, 2018

@Zalavaaris.5329 said:
@Obtena.7952 said:
@Zalavaaris.5329 said:
@Oldirtbeard.9834 said:
@"Kheldorn.5123" said:Why would you use BiP in group content when might is covered by duid?

What's a Duid, and what kind of puritanical mind set makes groups so closed off to trying different comps, that out look is so World of Warcraft Burning Crusade, most MMOs have moved way past that in the past 10 years?

I've been thinking of this myself. WoW was very similar back in its inception with regards to raiding. Only certain classes were taken and it was all very laid out and organized. I hope in GW2s future it becomes more like wow is today where it's more about the player and less about the specific class.

GW2 already does that ... the range of comps you can play as a raid group and win is very large ... large enough to accomodate anyone that wants to play a specific class.

You're very right! My commentary was about the community.

My bad then. At some point I'm convinced that 'power players' and 'meta pushers' will leave the game eventually as they are a self-restricting (and therefore, self-extinguishing) population, as long as Anet continues to create content that has a wide breadth of comps that can solve it.

Vinceman.4572 · May 11, 2018

@Zalavaaris.5329 said:
@Vinceman.4572 said:
@Oldirtbeard.9834 said:
@Vinceman.4572 said:
@Zalavaaris.5329 said:The thing that really bothers me about the raiding community here is that I feel that they think they are really good at raiding.

Haven't read such a statement by raiders till today but I know that some people of the speed run crowd were speed/hardcore running in other games as well.

The raids in this game are so easy the only way to differentiate is by doing it faster.

And still a lot of people are crying about raids being hard stuff.

In WoW you can be a world first raider using any class.

One of the reasons for me to play GW2.

One of the reasons, ah so does that mean you agree with keeping your encounters for a precious few builds, that's rather archaic thinking and leads to less revenue as WoW has shown.

NCSoft is content about the latest revenues from May and I'm fine with the game as well. There is enough variation in this game and I can play a lot of builds/classes in this game. Idc if some builds are minor to others. That is standard in every game, even in PvP games.

How many classes tank in gw2? Not how many can, how many do and are taken to raids?

Who cares? I don't. And yeah, I tanked VG yesterday as heal druid, ez pz np. And it was in a pug. If you have a static and at least decently skilled you can tank with every class without problems. Your mates will thank you because tanking isn't rly the most wanted role atm.

Zalavaaris.5329 · May 11, 2018

@Vinceman.4572 said:
@Zalavaaris.5329 said:
@Vinceman.4572 said:
@Oldirtbeard.9834 said:
@Vinceman.4572 said:
@Zalavaaris.5329 said:The thing that really bothers me about the raiding community here is that I feel that they think they are really good at raiding.

Haven't read such a statement by raiders till today but I know that some people of the speed run crowd were speed/hardcore running in other games as well.

The raids in this game are so easy the only way to differentiate is by doing it faster.

And still a lot of people are crying about raids being hard stuff.

In WoW you can be a world first raider using any class.

One of the reasons for me to play GW2.

One of the reasons, ah so does that mean you agree with keeping your encounters for a precious few builds, that's rather archaic thinking and leads to less revenue as WoW has shown.

NCSoft is content about the latest revenues from May and I'm fine with the game as well. There is enough variation in this game and I can play a lot of builds/classes in this game. Idc if some builds are minor to others. That is standard in every game, even in PvP games.

How many classes tank in gw2? Not how many can, how many do and are taken to raids?

Who cares? I don't. And yeah, I tanked VG yesterday as heal druid, ez pz np. And it was in a pug.

Hey cool, I'm glad you anecdotally had a rebutle. Congrats on tanking with a non mesmer! :)

Vinceman.4572 · May 12, 2018

@"Zalavaaris.5329" said:I'm not 100% convinced you are aware of what that means....

Of course I am. Your problem is you are just seeing the little picture. There is a meta and most people are following it for a reason. You don't like it? That's fine. Think out of the box and create your own entity. The build diversity is big enough in this game but people that are complaining here in the forums are just too lazy to organize themselves in the game. For fractals and even for raids you can form anti-meta groups that will work as long as you get players that aren't pressing only two buttons and one of the is the healing skill.I've seen so much "working" till now because I joined a lot of those groups and didn't just watch all the meta requirements passing by.

Zalavaaris.5329 · May 12, 2018

@Vinceman.4572 said:
@"Zalavaaris.5329" said:I'm not 100% convinced you are aware of what that means....

Of course I am. Your problem is you are just seeing the little picture. There is a meta and most people are following it for a reason. You don't like it? That's fine. Think out of the box and create your own entity. The build diversity is big enough in this game but people that are complaining here in the forums are just too lazy to organize themselves in the game. For fractals and even for raids you can form anti-meta groups that will work as long as you get players that aren't pressing only two buttons and one of the is the healing skill.I've seen so much "working" till now because I joined a lot of those groups and didn't just watch all the meta requirements passing by.

No I am not seeing the little picture. I've followed the meta and I've gone against the grain. My comments are a philosophical view of the game. It isnt narrow minded to believe the raiding community generally wont take a guardian tank because it's the truth. This game has a lot to learn from other more successful raiding games and that isnt the small picture. In fact it's probably a bigger picture than you're used to so I understand your confusion and dont judge you for it.

GrubySzymek.1362 · May 12, 2018

In terms of build diversity and group mentality in endgame instanced content, game would be much better and more diversified with traditional trinity approach and homogenized profession system.

Vinceman.4572 · May 12, 2018

@Zalavaaris.5329 said:
@Vinceman.4572 said:
@Zalavaaris.5329 said:I'm not 100% convinced you are aware of what that means....

Of course I am. Your problem is you are just seeing the little picture. There is a meta and most people are following it for a reason. You don't like it? That's fine. Think out of the box and create your own entity. The build diversity is big enough in this game but people that are complaining here in the forums are just too lazy to organize themselves in the game. For fractals and even for raids you can form anti-meta groups that will work as long as you get players that aren't pressing only two buttons and one of the is the healing skill.I've seen so much "working" till now because I joined a lot of those groups and didn't just watch all the meta requirements passing by.

No I am not seeing the little picture. I've followed the meta and I've gone against the grain. My comments are a philosophical view of the game. It isnt narrow minded to believe the raiding community generally wont take a guardian tank because it's the truth. This game has a lot to learn from other more successful raiding games and that isnt the small picture. In fact it's probably a bigger picture than you're used to so I understand your confusion and dont judge you for it.

No, this game doesn't have to learn in these terms. The developers are following their own path. There is no need to go the same way like other raiding games. GW2 is not such a game. Raids are a niche or better said side content and not the flagship. This niche is healthy and played by enough players to justify its further development but not put it in the main focus. Therefore build diversity is kinda "ok'ish", not perfect but that's nowhere the case.That's a thing you (and others) have to understand.

Tyson.5160 · May 12, 2018

@Vinceman.4572 said:
@Zalavaaris.5329 said:
@Vinceman.4572 said:
@Zalavaaris.5329 said:I'm not 100% convinced you are aware of what that means....

Of course I am. Your problem is you are just seeing the little picture. There is a meta and most people are following it for a reason. You don't like it? That's fine. Think out of the box and create your own entity. The build diversity is big enough in this game but people that are complaining here in the forums are just too lazy to organize themselves in the game. For fractals and even for raids you can form anti-meta groups that will work as long as you get players that aren't pressing only two buttons and one of the is the healing skill.I've seen so much "working" till now because I joined a lot of those groups and didn't just watch all the meta requirements passing by.

No I am not seeing the little picture. I've followed the meta and I've gone against the grain. My comments are a philosophical view of the game. It isnt narrow minded to believe the raiding community generally wont take a guardian tank because it's the truth. This game has a lot to learn from other more successful raiding games and that isnt the small picture. In fact it's probably a bigger picture than you're used to so I understand your confusion and dont judge you for it.

No, this game doesn't have to learn in these terms. The developers are following their own path. There is no need to go the same way like other raiding games. GW2 is not such a game. Raids are a niche or better said side content and not the flagship. This niche is healthy and played by enough players to justify its further development but not put it in the main focus. Therefore build diversity is kinda "ok'ish", not perfect but that's nowhere the case.That's a thing

you

(and others) have to understand.

With more and more players obtaining the Legendary Armor, do you think the community is growing or shrinking? I know some friends that acquired the armour and never looked back. What do you think will keep the community strong, when the carrot disappears from Raids?

Vinceman.4572 · May 12, 2018

@Tyson.5160 said:
@Vinceman.4572 said:
@Zalavaaris.5329 said:
@Vinceman.4572 said:
@Zalavaaris.5329 said:I'm not 100% convinced you are aware of what that means....

Of course I am. Your problem is you are just seeing the little picture. There is a meta and most people are following it for a reason. You don't like it? That's fine. Think out of the box and create your own entity. The build diversity is big enough in this game but people that are complaining here in the forums are just too lazy to organize themselves in the game. For fractals and even for raids you can form anti-meta groups that will work as long as you get players that aren't pressing only two buttons and one of the is the healing skill.I've seen so much "working" till now because I joined a lot of those groups and didn't just watch all the meta requirements passing by.

No I am not seeing the little picture. I've followed the meta and I've gone against the grain. My comments are a philosophical view of the game. It isnt narrow minded to believe the raiding community generally wont take a guardian tank because it's the truth. This game has a lot to learn from other more successful raiding games and that isnt the small picture. In fact it's probably a bigger picture than you're used to so I understand your confusion and dont judge you for it.

No, this game doesn't have to learn in these terms. The developers are following their own path. There is no need to go the same way like other raiding games. GW2 is not such a game. Raids are a niche or better said side content and not the flagship. This niche is healthy and played by enough players to justify its further development but not put it in the main focus. Therefore build diversity is kinda "ok'ish", not perfect but that's nowhere the case.That's a thing

you

(and others) have to understand.

With more and more players obtaining the Legendary Armor, do you think the community is growing or shrinking? I know some friends that acquired the armour and never looked back. What do you think will keep the community strong, when the carrot disappears from Raids?

What community? The raiding community? The game will turn six this year and maybe we will see 2-3 more years of active development. Within this time frame I doubt it's necessary to adjust numbers but if GW2 will last longer than that I'm sure they will. And they will react properly to it.You also have to keep in mind that the overwhelming majority of raiders already have their legendary armor or at least they are able to craft it. I haven't been raiding from the start and I've never seen it as important to have a full clear every week. Nevertheless I'm on the way to legendary insight no. 1000 - btw. without having any legendary armor piece till now. I'm still raiding and will continue because it's fun for me. More fun than running through open world.

Zalavaaris.5329 · May 12, 2018

@Vinceman.4572 said:
@Zalavaaris.5329 said:
@Vinceman.4572 said:
@Zalavaaris.5329 said:I'm not 100% convinced you are aware of what that means....

Of course I am. Your problem is you are just seeing the little picture. There is a meta and most people are following it for a reason. You don't like it? That's fine. Think out of the box and create your own entity. The build diversity is big enough in this game but people that are complaining here in the forums are just too lazy to organize themselves in the game. For fractals and even for raids you can form anti-meta groups that will work as long as you get players that aren't pressing only two buttons and one of the is the healing skill.I've seen so much "working" till now because I joined a lot of those groups and didn't just watch all the meta requirements passing by.

No I am not seeing the little picture. I've followed the meta and I've gone against the grain. My comments are a philosophical view of the game. It isnt narrow minded to believe the raiding community generally wont take a guardian tank because it's the truth. This game has a lot to learn from other more successful raiding games and that isnt the small picture. In fact it's probably a bigger picture than you're used to so I understand your confusion and dont judge you for it.

No, this game doesn't have to learn in these terms. The developers are following their own path. There is no need to go the same way like other raiding games. GW2 is not such a game. Raids are a niche or better said side content and not the flagship. This niche is healthy and played by enough players to justify its further development but not put it in the main focus. Therefore build diversity is kinda "ok'ish", not perfect but that's nowhere the case.That's a thing

you

(and others) have to understand.

The easiest way to put my opinion is... says you...

Obtena.7952 · May 13, 2018

@Zalavaaris.5329 said:
@Vinceman.4572 said:
@Zalavaaris.5329 said:
@Vinceman.4572 said:
@Zalavaaris.5329 said:I'm not 100% convinced you are aware of what that means....

Of course I am. Your problem is you are just seeing the little picture. There is a meta and most people are following it for a reason. You don't like it? That's fine. Think out of the box and create your own entity. The build diversity is big enough in this game but people that are complaining here in the forums are just too lazy to organize themselves in the game. For fractals and even for raids you can form anti-meta groups that will work as long as you get players that aren't pressing only two buttons and one of the is the healing skill.I've seen so much "working" till now because I joined a lot of those groups and didn't just watch all the meta requirements passing by.

No I am not seeing the little picture. I've followed the meta and I've gone against the grain. My comments are a philosophical view of the game. It isnt narrow minded to believe the raiding community generally wont take a guardian tank because it's the truth. This game has a lot to learn from other more successful raiding games and that isnt the small picture. In fact it's probably a bigger picture than you're used to so I understand your confusion and dont judge you for it.

No, this game doesn't have to learn in these terms. The developers are following their own path. There is no need to go the same way like other raiding games. GW2 is not such a game. Raids are a niche or better said side content and not the flagship. This niche is healthy and played by enough players to justify its further development but not put it in the main focus. Therefore build diversity is kinda "ok'ish", not perfect but that's nowhere the case.That's a thing

you

(and others) have to understand.

The easiest way to put my opinion is... says you...

Hold on ... let's be realistic here. Anet has built this whole game on not following the trend of other craptastic MMO's ... and it does it well and shows no reason to revert to the tired approach 'more successful' raiding games have. Now you're saying "SAYS YOU" to someone that understands what's going on? The fact is that he's right ... anet already has captured the market for players that DON'T want what more successful raiding games offer .. it would be stupid for Anet to adopt a different approach at this point.

There is a REALLY simple solution here that requires Anet to do nothing. Players that don't like how the game works don't have to play it. If they want the approach more successful raiding games offer, then they should patronize those games. I'm not even sure what gave those players the impression Anet was going to follow a traditional approach ... it's pretty clear to me that Anet has their own ideas ... and those ideas work for them and the players that stick with and understand the game.

Zalavaaris.5329 · May 13, 2018

@Obtena.7952 said:
@Zalavaaris.5329 said:
@Vinceman.4572 said:
@Zalavaaris.5329 said:
@Vinceman.4572 said:
@Zalavaaris.5329 said:I'm not 100% convinced you are aware of what that means....

Of course I am. Your problem is you are just seeing the little picture. There is a meta and most people are following it for a reason. You don't like it? That's fine. Think out of the box and create your own entity. The build diversity is big enough in this game but people that are complaining here in the forums are just too lazy to organize themselves in the game. For fractals and even for raids you can form anti-meta groups that will work as long as you get players that aren't pressing only two buttons and one of the is the healing skill.I've seen so much "working" till now because I joined a lot of those groups and didn't just watch all the meta requirements passing by.

No I am not seeing the little picture. I've followed the meta and I've gone against the grain. My comments are a philosophical view of the game. It isnt narrow minded to believe the raiding community generally wont take a guardian tank because it's the truth. This game has a lot to learn from other more successful raiding games and that isnt the small picture. In fact it's probably a bigger picture than you're used to so I understand your confusion and dont judge you for it.

No, this game doesn't have to learn in these terms. The developers are following their own path. There is no need to go the same way like other raiding games. GW2 is not such a game. Raids are a niche or better said side content and not the flagship. This niche is healthy and played by enough players to justify its further development but not put it in the main focus. Therefore build diversity is kinda "ok'ish", not perfect but that's nowhere the case.That's a thing

you

(and others) have to understand.

The easiest way to put my opinion is... says you...

Hold on ... let's be realistic here. Anet has built this whole game on not following the trend of other craptastic MMO's ... and it does it well and shows no reason to revert to the tired approach 'more successful' raiding games have. Now you're saying "SAYS YOU" to someone that understands what's going on? The fact is that he's right ... anet already has captured the market for players that DON'T want what more successful raiding games offer .. it would be stupid for Anet to adopt a different approach at this point.

There is a REALLY simple solution here that requires Anet to do nothing. Players that don't like how the game works don't have to play it. If they want the approach more successful raiding games offer, then they should patronize those games. I'm not even sure what gave those players the impression Anet was going to follow a traditional approach ... it's pretty clear to me that Anet has their own ideas ... and those ideas work for them and the players that stick with and understand the game.

And I'm saying I disagree. I wont agree that it should stay how it is and nobody is going to change my mind so come off it.

Obtena.7952 · May 13, 2018

That's fine ... but if the best you have is 'says you', that's not really a point for discussion. If you don't want to contribute with more than 'I think this and that's that', then don't expect people to receive your thinking with open arms here.

The bottom line is that if your just making some vague statements about how Anet has something to learn ... do you care to say what that something is? YOu got your opinion, fine. But no one plays this game and raids in it because it's a WoW-clone and no one ever will because Anet isn't going to do WoW raiding better than Blizzard does. It's comical to think that if Anet were closer in raid style to WoW ... it would be more successful. That's nonsense. People play not-WoW games because they don't want to play WoW. If I want the WoW raiding experience, I would play WoW.

Zalavaaris.5329 · May 13, 2018

@Obtena.7952 said:That's fine ... but if the best you have is 'says you', that's not really a point for discussion. If you don't want to contribute with more than 'I think this and that's that', then don't expect people to receive your thinking with open arms here.
The bottom line is that if your just making some vague statements about how Anet has something to learn ... do you care to say what that something is? YOu got your opinion, fine. But no one plays this game and raids in it because it's a WoW-clone and no one ever will because Anet isn't going to do WoW raiding better than Blizzard does. It's comical to think that if Anet were closer in raid style to WoW ... it would be more successful. That's nonsense. People play not-WoW games because they don't want to play WoW. If I want the WoW raiding experience, I would play WoW.

Your comment sounds like what gw2 is doing with raiding is some remarkable feat. Their raids are basically wow raids but with simple mechanics and a community that feels that only one class/spec is viable for tanking. Please dont think anet has actually done anything different that changes the game. It just an easy version of proper raiding.

Obtena.7952 · May 13, 2018

@Zalavaaris.5329 said:
@Obtena.7952 said:That's fine ... but if the best you have is 'says you', that's not really a point for discussion. If you don't want to contribute with more than 'I think this and that's that', then don't expect people to receive your thinking with open arms here.
The bottom line is that if your just making some vague statements about how Anet has something to learn ... do you care to say what that something is? YOu got your opinion, fine. But no one plays this game and raids in it because it's a WoW-clone and no one ever will because Anet isn't going to do WoW raiding better than Blizzard does. It's comical to think that if Anet were closer in raid style to WoW ... it would be more successful. That's nonsense. People play not-WoW games because they don't want to play WoW. If I want the WoW raiding experience, I would play WoW.

Your comment sounds like what gw2 is doing with raiding is some remarkable feat. Their raids are basically wow raids but with simple mechanics and a community that feels that only one class/spec is viable for tanking. Please dont think anet has actually done anything different that changes the game. It just an easy version of proper raiding.

Your not making sense here. Either Anet is or isn't doing their own thing. You can't play both sides of the coin. If Anet isn't unique here, then you got nothing to complain about; they are the WoW clone you want them to be. If they are unique, then you can play WoW or whatever you want to get the kind of raids you enjoy. What I said stands. People do not play GW2 because they like WoW raids. It doesn't need to be a remarkable feat to be different than WoW. You're just being sensational. If you haven't found the part of the community that doesn't worship the meta ... what can I tell you ... look harder.

Zalavaaris.5329 · May 13, 2018

@Obtena.7952 said:
@Zalavaaris.5329 said:
@Obtena.7952 said:That's fine ... but if the best you have is 'says you', that's not really a point for discussion. If you don't want to contribute with more than 'I think this and that's that', then don't expect people to receive your thinking with open arms here.
The bottom line is that if your just making some vague statements about how Anet has something to learn ... do you care to say what that something is? YOu got your opinion, fine. But no one plays this game and raids in it because it's a WoW-clone and no one ever will because Anet isn't going to do WoW raiding better than Blizzard does. It's comical to think that if Anet were closer in raid style to WoW ... it would be more successful. That's nonsense. People play not-WoW games because they don't want to play WoW. If I want the WoW raiding experience, I would play WoW.

Your comment sounds like what gw2 is doing with raiding is some remarkable feat. Their raids are basically wow raids but with simple mechanics and a community that feels that only one class/spec is viable for tanking. Please dont think anet has actually done anything different that changes the game. It just an easy version of proper raiding.

Your not making sense here. Either Anet is or isn't doing their own thing. You can't play both sides of the coin. If Anet isn't unique here, then you got nothing to complain about; they are the WoW clone you want them to be. If they are unique, then you can play WoW or whatever you want to get the kind of raids you enjoy. What I said stands. People do not play GW2 because they like WoW raids. It doesn't need to be a remarkable feat to be different than WoW. You're just being sensational. If you haven't found the part of the community that doesn't worship the meta ... what can I tell you ... look harder.

I JUST said they aren't doing anything special. You claimed they are trying to be different and not be a wow clone. I said it's too late for that. They are just doing it worse when the potential for this games raiding is immensely impressive.

After looking at this thread more we are disrespecting the OPs post. I'll stop arguing about the raid environment in gw2 vs wow as that isnt what this post is supposed to be.

Obtena.7952 · May 13, 2018

The problem here is that you made some observation about a small portion of the community and made a general conclusion about the whole community from it. Yes, there are a certain group that drive towards restricting their playerbase options because of how the game is designed. That doesn't indicate raids are done incorrectly here; it simply means the game appeals to a different market than your 'world class raid' game. Your conclusions are incorrect, and are based on the faulty premise that raids are introduced to appeal to only a certain kind of player with a high level of performance. In case you haven't noticed, GW2 is designed for casual players and it would be rather stupid for Anet to design a portion of the game that doesn't acknowledge that ... even raids. It's not being done worse, it's being done different .. and there is excellent reason for that; Anet knows where it's market is, and it's not in appealing to WoW players with a clone game. Clearly, they've got that right, otherwise the game wouldn't exist. There IS a market for people that don't want to play WoW .. that's why they are here, that's why Anet has provided a different raid experience than WoW does.

Tyson.5160 · May 13, 2018

@Obtena.7952 said:The problem here is that you made some observation about a small portion of the community and made a general conclusion about the whole community from it. Yes, there are a certain group that drive towards restricting their playerbase options because of how the game is designed. That doesn't indicate raids are done incorrectly here; it simply means the game appeals to a different market than your 'world class raid' game. Your conclusions are incorrect, and are based on the faulty premise that raids are introduced to appeal to only a certain kind of player with a high level of performance. In case you haven't noticed, GW2 is designed for casual players and it would be rather stupid for Anet to design a portion of the game that doesn't acknowledge that ... even raids. It's not being done worse, it's being done different .. and there is excellent reason for that; Anet knows where it's market is, and it's not in appealing to WoW players with a clone game. Clearly, they've got that right, otherwise the game wouldn't exist. There IS a market for people that don't want to play WoW .. that's why they are here, that's why Anet has provided a different raid experience than WoW does.

I think he wanted to respect the OP and move on from this particular line of thinking as it’s derailing the original topic. ?

Xantaria.8726 · May 13, 2018

@Zalavaaris.5329 said:
@"Obtena.7952" said:That's fine ... but if the best you have is 'says you', that's not really a point for discussion. If you don't want to contribute with more than 'I think this and that's that', then don't expect people to receive your thinking with open arms here.
The bottom line is that if your just making some vague statements about how Anet has something to learn ... do you care to say what that something is? YOu got your opinion, fine. But no one plays this game and raids in it because it's a WoW-clone and no one ever will because Anet isn't going to do WoW raiding better than Blizzard does. It's comical to think that if Anet were closer in raid style to WoW ... it would be more successful. That's nonsense. People play not-WoW games because they don't want to play WoW. If I want the WoW raiding experience, I would play WoW.

Your comment sounds like what gw2 is doing with raiding is some remarkable feat. Their raids are basically wow raids but with simple mechanics and a community that feels that only one class/spec is viable for tanking. Please dont think anet has actually done anything different that changes the game. It just an easy version of proper raiding.

Viable are all classes, you can literally kill the bosses with low mans. It doesnt matter who is the tank, and you could tank with everythink. Most people just want to run efficient, and that would be to drop a supporter as a tank. This has nothing to do with "elitistic" or "we think we are such good raiders and raids are hard". the reason behind the meta is simply because its faster, thats why many people and pugs are sticking to it. However, there are also as many who dont stick to the meta, and you always have the option to tag up and make your own group with your own lfg. This is not a anet-problem, the player is a problem if he is to lazy to play what he wants without forcing his playstyle on others.

Also raid is a niche content, not the main content of gw2. Of course they are nothing like those of wow and similiar raiding-games.

Astralporing.1957 · May 14, 2018

@Zalavaaris.5329 said:
@Obtena.7952 said:That's fine ... but if the best you have is 'says you', that's not really a point for discussion. If you don't want to contribute with more than 'I think this and that's that', then don't expect people to receive your thinking with open arms here.
The bottom line is that if your just making some vague statements about how Anet has something to learn ... do you care to say what that something is? YOu got your opinion, fine. But no one plays this game and raids in it because it's a WoW-clone and no one ever will because Anet isn't going to do WoW raiding better than Blizzard does. It's comical to think that if Anet were closer in raid style to WoW ... it would be more successful. That's nonsense. People play not-WoW games because they don't want to play WoW. If I want the WoW raiding experience, I would play WoW.

Your comment sounds like what gw2 is doing with raiding is some remarkable feat.Because it is. The very fact that raids aren't dead yet in this (so very casual) game is a miracle.

@Zalavaaris.5329 said:Their raids are basically wow raids but with simple mechanics and a community that feels that only one class/spec is viable for tanking. Please dont think anet has actually done anything different that changes the game. It just an easy version of proper raiding.Exactly. Anything closer to the real deal would end up

less

popular than raids are now.

thrag.9740 · May 15, 2018

Of course reapers are viable, 2 players in my static tonight decided to run power reapers for fun. I think they ran them for all of w1/2 then swapped because a power reaper would do poorly for stand still xera (although condi reapers would be fine via epi bouncing). I had a friend who raided on his alt account in green armor, and pug groups would never know the difference because he actually performed his rotation correctly. If you know what your doing, literally almost any build crafted in a serious manner is viable.

But understand, viable doesn't mean "easily joins pugs".

Henry.5713 · May 15, 2018

Is it viable? Yes. Is it optimal? No. Might it be better than everyone thinks? Maybe. Is there anything more effective? For sure. Will pugs always accept you? No.

Nimon.7840 · May 16, 2018

@Zalavaaris.5329 said:
@"Kheldorn.5123" said:
@Oldirtbeard.9834 said:
@"Kheldorn.5123" said:
@Oldirtbeard.9834 said:
@Zalavaaris.5329 said:
@Oldirtbeard.9834 said:
@"Kheldorn.5123" said:Why would you use BiP in group content when might is covered by duid?

What's a Duid, and what kind of puritanical mind set makes groups so closed off to trying different comps, that out look is so World of Warcraft Burning Crusade, most MMOs have moved way past that in the past 10 years?

I've been thinking of this myself. WoW was very similar back in its inception with regards to raiding. Only certain classes were taken and it was all very laid out and organized. I hope in GW2s future it becomes more like wow is today where it's more about the player and less about the specific class.

I'm going to refrain from commenting any more on this thread, I've bruised a few snowflakes evidently.

Thank you for delivering this soulcrashing statement. It's going to help fighting the meta.

I edited my comment, it was the wrong thread, oops. After this last balance patch I can't take End Game PVE in this game seriously when it doesn't even take it's self seriously with proper balance. The balance team, and the Raiding Community are very old fashioned, stuck in the Burning Crusade WoW days, and to be taken seriously benchmarks need to be within 5% of all Elite Specs in a game with no Trinity.

HC community was like this since dungeons and nothing is going to change it. I despise these people but I am in peace with the fact that it's impossible to win against them and Anet likes free marketing they provide.

The thing that really bothers me about the raiding community here is that I feel that they think they are really good at raiding. The raids in this game are so easy the only way to differentiate is by doing it faster. There isnt a meaningful race to first whether that be world or server. So they try to optimize down to required classes. In WoW you can be a world first raider using any class. That isnt the case here and its community driven.

But wows raids are so much easier than gw2 raids.A few months ago I played a little bit of wow.Those new raid bosses are a joke compared to what you have to do at dhuumfight for example

Zalavaaris.5329 · May 16, 2018

@Nimon.7840 said:
@Zalavaaris.5329 said:
@"Kheldorn.5123" said:
@Oldirtbeard.9834 said:
@"Kheldorn.5123" said:
@Oldirtbeard.9834 said:
@Zalavaaris.5329 said:
@Oldirtbeard.9834 said:
@"Kheldorn.5123" said:Why would you use BiP in group content when might is covered by duid?