anet : stop messing with confusion in pve

[musu.9205]

IT DOES NOT WORK ON MOBS THAT BARELY ATTACK .it's not even worth on most raid bosses .

[Roda.7468]

I mean they could do to mess with it one more time to put it back where it was bleed + proc.

[Styxx.1564]

Isn't this a useful change?

Confusion: This condition has been reworked and will now inflict more damage to nonplayer enemies than players instead of being split between game modes.

[musu.9205]

@Styxx.1564 said:Isn't this a useful change?

Confusion: This condition has been reworked and will now inflict more damage to nonplayer enemies than players instead of being split between game modes.

it only does doubled damage on skill usage which means basically useless against most pve mobs and most raid bosses .It's a big nerf to axe 3 damage and make no sense

[Leodon.1564]

I can't think of one good reason why Confusion even exists in the game. The concept behind it sucks, the implementation sucks, its hated as a mechanic by both the people who have access to it and by those who are on the receiving end of the debuff. Naming the debuff/dot "Confusion" was apt since everyone seems to be confused by it, including the developers.

Anet has had years to make this debuff work and it still sucks as much today as when it came out. Why Anet continues to push this mechanic in the game is beyond me. This mechanic should have died in the brainstorming session that spawned it.

[Conncept.7638]

@"Leodon.1564" said:I can't think of one good reason why Confusion even exists in the game. The concept behind it sucks, the implementation sucks, its hated as a mechanic by both the people who have access to it and by those who are on the receiving end of the debuff. Naming the debuff/dot "Confusion" was apt since everyone seems to be confused by it, including the developers.

Anet has had years to make this debuff work and it still sucks as much today as when it came out. Why Anet continues to push this mechanic in the game is beyond me.People say the same thing about stealth, boons, conditions in general, and just about every other mechanic ever, and those people are rarely correct or the majority. Most mechanics can work, it's just a matter of balancing numbers and tweaking interractions.

Now confusion is not "fine" by any stretch of the imagination, but the concept behind it is perfectly sound. You play poorly, you don't recognize and react to it in time, and you get punished, that's the most basic rule of EVERY competitive game. It's no different from blind, retaliation, or any number of other specific traits and abilities which have a counter-attack feel to them.

The issue with confusion, is that there is often no viable play when it's placed on you, doing anything about it will kill you, doing nothing will cause you to die to something else, and is a just plain horrible play pattern to encourage for such a common mechanic. But that's not an inherent trait of confusion, they could easily remove its dealing damage on removal, or make it only work on attack skills, or change any number of other interractions. They've just never done it, because, well I don't know, there are a lot of very clear and obvious fixes to very glaring and common flaws with GW2 that the devs don't ever seem to consider.

[Leodon.1564]

@Conncept.7638 said:

@"Leodon.1564" said:I can't think of one good reason why Confusion even exists in the game. The concept behind it sucks, the implementation sucks, its hated as a mechanic by both the people who have access to it and by those who are on the receiving end of the debuff. Naming the debuff/dot "Confusion" was apt since everyone seems to be confused by it, including the developers.

Anet has had years to make this debuff work and it still sucks as much today as when it came out. Why Anet continues to push this mechanic in the game is beyond me.People say the same thing about stealth, boons, conditions in general, and just about every other mechanic ever, and those people are rarely correct or the majority. Most mechanics can work, it's just a matter of balancing numbers and tweaking interractions.

Now confusion is not "fine" by any stretch of the imagination, but the concept behind it is perfectly sound. You play poorly, you don't recognize and react to it in time, and you get punished, that's the most basic rule of EVERY competitive game. It's no different from blind, retaliation, or any number of other specific traits and abilities which have a counter-attack feel to them.

The issue with confusion, is that there is often no viable play when it's placed on you, doing anything about it will kill you, doing nothing will cause you to die to something else, and is a just plain horrible play pattern to encourage for such a common mechanic. But that's not an inherent trait of confusion, they could easily remove its dealing damage on removal, or make it only work on attack skills, or change any number of other interractions. They've just never done it, because, well I don't know, there are a lot of very clear and obvious fixes to very glaring and common flaws with GW2 that the devs don't ever seem to consider.

The concept doesn't suck. I'm just frustrated at how poorly this concept was/is implemented and am calling it sucky because anyone can come up with an idea. This idea just fails on so many levels afterwards that I don't even want to give credit that the concept is ok.

[Conncept.7638]

@Leodon.1564 said:

@Conncept.7638 said:

@Leodon.1564 said:I can't think of one good reason why Confusion even exists in the game. The concept behind it sucks, the implementation sucks, its hated as a mechanic by both the people who have access to it and by those who are on the receiving end of the debuff. Naming the debuff/dot "Confusion" was apt since everyone seems to be confused by it, including the developers.

Anet has had years to make this debuff work and it still sucks as much today as when it came out. Why Anet continues to push this mechanic in the game is beyond me.People say the same thing about stealth, boons, conditions in general, and just about every other mechanic ever, and those people are rarely correct or the majority. Most mechanics can work, it's just a matter of balancing numbers and tweaking interractions.

Now confusion is not "fine" by any stretch of the imagination, but the concept behind it is perfectly sound. You play poorly, you don't recognize and react to it in time, and you get punished, that's the most basic rule of EVERY competitive game. It's no different from blind, retaliation, or any number of other specific traits and abilities which have a counter-attack feel to them.

The issue with confusion, is that there is often no viable play when it's placed on you, doing anything about it will kill you, doing nothing will cause you to die to something else, and is a just plain horrible play pattern to encourage for such a common mechanic. But that's not an inherent trait of confusion, they could easily remove its dealing damage on removal, or make it only work on attack skills, or change any number of other interractions. They've just never done it, because, well I don't know, there are a lot of very clear and obvious fixes to very glaring and common flaws with GW2 that the devs don't ever seem to consider.

The concept doesn't suck. I'm just frustrated at how poorly this concept was/is implemented and am calling it sucky because anyone can come up with an idea. This idea just fails on so many levels afterwards that I don't even want to give credit that the concept is ok.

All good, to tell the truth I've quit this game for months at a time, twice in its run, largely because the devs don't seem to be willing to do what's necessary to fix major game systems, it's always a tweak here and nudge there, or a bandaid over the already existing bandaid, never a permanent and healthy solution. It gets to you, especially when you're the type of person that sees things for their potential more than their current state.

[crepuscular.9047]

should make it similar to Taunt, make the mobs attack each other for a short duration

[Carighan.6758]

@Styxx.1564 said:Isn't this a useful change?

Confusion: This condition has been reworked and will now inflict more damage to nonplayer enemies than players instead of being split between game modes.

No because 2 * 0 = 0.

[perilisk.1874]

I guess one fix would just be to have all the stacks trigger a single time (on the next skill) so that it' s a burst punishment condition rather than a DOT one. That way, it should do full damage on NPCs so long as it is timed well.

[Funky.4861]

So basically no change to how confusion works in pve, just a damage buff on the rare occasion that a mob which has it casts a skill? In which case it's a deliberate nerf to axe3.

[bart.3687]

I logged in yesterday just to check out the new changes they've made. So I put 8 secs of 6 stacks of confusion on a mob and then I didn't do anything. During these 8 secs, said mob managed to use a skill only 2 times, which resulted in me being severely disappointed again (I admit, the on-skill-activation damage is quite good when it actually procs, but mobs' attack rate is way too slow for it to be any close to a reliable source of damage). And for comparison, the same mob almost died to The Prestige's Burning, soooo... Yeah, it's not worthwhile to use Confusion, still.Keep trying, Anet.

Anyway, back to my gw2 hibernation.

[Ardenwolfe.8590]

@Styxx.1564 said:Isn't this a useful change?

Confusion: This condition has been reworked and will now inflict more damage to nonplayer enemies than players instead of being split between game modes.

Yes, I've noticed the difference in PvE. And how!

[Lyndina.7984]

Soo...nothing changed? Well...going to stuck on wow then,even if it isnt perfect...its better than this game :/

[AliamRationem.5172]

@Lyndina.7984 said:Soo...nothing changed? Well...going to stuck on wow then,even if it isnt perfect...its better than this game :/

The on skill-use damage is much higher than before. Even though confusion application is far more limited than torment application, resulting in smaller stack size, I typically see double the max tick damage from confusion that I do with torment. However, the average tick size for confusion is usually about half as much as torment because the regular damage tick is so much lower with confusion. And of course torment damage is somewhat lower to begin with since we lost torment on axe 3.

Some evidence suggests that this could actually produce more damage than torment on axe 3 as long as the target isn't ridiculously slow. However, in open world play I haven't noticed much of a difference either way. I did some benchmarks against open world champions (chak lobber and zintl inquisitor) and wasn't able to produce quite as much DPS as before the patch after many attempts, but the difference in actual completion time was negligible (just a few seconds on bosses that take around a minute and a half to complete).

So, it looks like for PvE if this is a nerf it's a very small one. I'm not a big fan of the way confusion works for PvE, but the damage is adequate now overall. Mirage should be basically as strong as ever in PvE and stronger in PvP/WvW as a result of this change.