Patchnote Format - Suggestion

[Aelio.6390]

Hi there,

It's my first message, as I usually don't take the time to write things down and believe that Anet will turn out the best out of Gw2 as in Gw1, but this time I think it may be worth.

Would it be complicated to update the format of the patchnote ? :3

Let's face it just by looking at May 8 Patchnote, too many changes at the same time, if you don't know exactly all the traits, all the spells of each class, you will never know to what the lines refers.So... Would it be possible for Anet to make things clearer like:

• have the icon of the spell or trait being modified, or like you can see on build editor (or old forums, for oldies of Gw, a bbcode), to be able to SEE what we are talking about?
• or have a link to the wiki

Then on format purely, may-be classify, use a table for each class, where you have: weapons modifications / traits modifications / spells modifications ?And on top of that, generic modification like on the mech of the class.

I ask it because as Raid Lead of one of the 2 static of our small guild, I have to watch-out and scroll the whoooooole patchnote with each class open to try and see the implications of the patchnote :)And that's complicated while it could be much more simpler, we all have this "photo-memory" in mind than the full name of each skill of each 9 class + 18 elite specialisation (the more with weaver out there - big up to these bursting chips ;) ).

What do you think about it ? <3

[ysnake.3619]

My suggestions regarding the patch note would be the following:

• The changes regarding "now it is the same as PvP" - this is rather confusing and can be quite "huh?" when reading. One shouldn't need to investigate every ability, as we have difference balances regarding PvP and PvE - this should be clarified to an extent, for example "One Hundred Blades is now the same as PvP (PvE buff)" - because changes like these make... no sense if one does not dabble into wiki and/or PvP.
• Another one would be formatting - so, if I want to skip out on Elementalist changes (don't care, for example), have a link at the top of the page of the major changes so that it drags you down to the correct segment.

Such documentation can be tedious, but as it is official communication, one should invest a bit more time and fluff for the official documentation.

[joneirikb.7506]

I can recommend waiting until it is up on the wiki, they tend to add icons and links directly to skills, making it much easier to read:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Game_updates

Otherwise for this patch specifically, I would have liked to see a separation of water from non-water updates. Since they've changed just about every water weapon, it creates a lot of change-entries, separating them into water/non-water changes would have made it much easier to sort through and find what you're looking for. We had some confusion with people being confused as to what was changed, because several people didn't remember water skills at all. :)

[Aelio.6390]

Thank you,

Sadly, this fluff only exist in english (not in my native language being French - for instance in french, in the Wiki, we are still at April 10 update >_>).And I believe that many of us do not have the reflex of Wiki GU.

And if they can do it already for the wiki, then it should not consume much time to do this fluff for the official communication ?As they have to do it at some point, why not make it from the start ?

That is my main point :)

[Gaile Gray.6029]

I appreciate the thought behind the suggestion. Update notes are a complex beast, because often we'll have a dozen or more contributors. They are compiled by specific, assigned team members who work with a variety of medium -- several different internal web pages, e-mails, text documents, Word documents, and more. The notes then are sent to our Editing Team to ensure that the language is presented properly. For instance, a skill name may be incorrect; the grammar or syntax in a string may need improvement. After editing, they go to our Localization Team, where they are localized (translated) into three other languages. Along the way, a team member may have a question that needs to be tracked down and answered at any number of levels: A designer, a QA person, a producer, a writer, etc. After the initial compilation, after questions are answered and changes are made, after editing is complete and localization is done, they come to me to format into Markdown for these forums. And after I post I share my links with our Content Marketing Team so they can share them on social media. That's the process, and as you can see, it's a (necessarily) complicated one.

In the end, the culmination of the update note project involves many teams, many people, and a lot of steps. Taking the step of adding graphics would add what I believe would be an impossible load to an already complex project. For instance, each icon would need to be hosted on an approved site, linked, and so forth. That whole thing is just not something that I believe we'll ever be able to do on the official forums. However, we're fortunate to have our amazing Wiki Community, and they are able to take the time and are willing to make the generous effort to add those icons to the notes. That takes a lot of time, I'm sure, but in part the wiki folks are able to do that because they're not looking at late-arriving and possibly changing details even minutes before publication, and they don't have a "hard deadline" for publication.

I feel we have a great synergy between the official notes and the wiki notes, and I'm very grateful for the added benefits our wiki community gives the notes. I will pass along the suggestion that we include skill icons and other graphics in our official update notes on the forums, but knowing the process so intimately, I really don't think that will be a suggestion upon which we can act. Maybe it's good to consider our publication Part One, and the wiki enhanced presentation Part Two. :)

[Randulf.7614]

Even if not graphics, just the number the skill refers to. ie axe 4, mace 2 etc

For me, the notes don't really mean a lot as I simply can't remember the skill names across 8-9 characters, so I tend to just skip the whole thing when reading it

[Underdark.3726]

@Randulf.7614 said:Even if not graphics, just the number the skill refers to. ie axe 4, mace 2 etc

For me, the notes don't really mean a lot as I simply can't remember the skill names across 8-9 characters, so I tend to just skip the whole thing when reading it

and when you add the traits to that...the ideal would be somekind of in game tool so we can see what have changed. maybe some external tool that wouldn't be in violation of any rule?

[MakubeC.3026]

Nah.Patch notes are ok. If you can't remember the skill/trait names, stop being so lazy and go to the wiki or wait for the wiki edition.

[Underdark.3726]

and i thought waiting is lazy... silly me.

[Hashberry.4510]

These patch notes are pretty bad, really. "No longer split between modes ....use same percent increase". Compared to what? Is this a buff? A nerf? This feels like many teams or individuals that just cannot bother.

[Zaklex.6308]

@"Hashberry.4510" said:These patch notes are pretty bad, really. "No longer split between modes ....use same percent increase". Compared to what? Is this a buff? A nerf? This feels like many teams or individuals that just cannot bother.

This tells me that you didn't know what your skill or trait did to begin with, in which case it shouldn't matter to you what changes they made to said skill/trait. In reference to the May 8th patch notes specifically...they changed traits for ONE(1) specific Elite Specialization, there really shouldn't be a need to provide more information than they did. Why you might ask, those that just play a profession because they enjoy it won't or don't care about things like skill and/or trait changes, whilst those that play the same profession for say Raids or sPVP(at a high level) are usually intimately familiar with the profession and know exactly what each trait/skill does, there fore the changes to them will be almost readily apparent.

[TexZero.7910]

@Zaklex.6308 said:

@"Hashberry.4510" said:These patch notes are pretty bad, really. "No longer split between modes ....use same percent increase". Compared to what? Is this a buff? A nerf? This feels like many teams or individuals that just cannot bother.

This tells me that you didn't know what your skill or trait did to begin with, in which case it shouldn't matter to you what changes they made to said skill/trait. In reference to the May 8th patch notes specifically...they changed traits for ONE(1) specific Elite Specialization, there really shouldn't be a need to provide more information than they did. Why you might ask, those that just play a profession because they enjoy it won't or don't care about things like skill and/or trait changes, whilst those that play the same profession for say Raids or sPVP(at a high level) are usually intimately familiar with the profession and know exactly what each trait/skill does, there fore the changes to them will be almost readily apparent.

Normally, i'd agree...Except for this patch. I sincerely doubt you'd find people intimately familiar with underwater skill names.

[Zaklex.6308]

@TexZero.7910 said:

@Zaklex.6308 said:

@"Hashberry.4510" said:These patch notes are pretty bad, really. "No longer split between modes ....use same percent increase". Compared to what? Is this a buff? A nerf? This feels like many teams or individuals that just cannot bother.

This tells me that you didn't know what your skill or trait did to begin with, in which case it shouldn't matter to you what changes they made to said skill/trait. In reference to the May 8th patch notes specifically...they changed traits for ONE(1) specific Elite Specialization, there really shouldn't be a need to provide more information than they did. Why you might ask, those that just play a profession because they enjoy it won't or don't care about things like skill and/or trait changes, whilst those that play the same profession for say Raids or sPVP(at a high level) are usually intimately familiar with the profession and know exactly what each trait/skill does, there fore the changes to them will be almost readily apparent.

Normally, i'd agree...Except for this patch. I sincerely doubt you'd find people intimately familiar with underwater skill names.

But all of those got either increases in percentages or just straight increases in damage...with the exception of a very few nerfs(only 1 I noticed on Ranger, but that wasn't a big deal as far as I was concerned).

[TexZero.7910]

@Zaklex.6308 said:

@TexZero.7910 said:

@Zaklex.6308 said:

@"Hashberry.4510" said:These patch notes are pretty bad, really. "No longer split between modes ....use same percent increase". Compared to what? Is this a buff? A nerf? This feels like many teams or individuals that just cannot bother.

This tells me that you didn't know what your skill or trait did to begin with, in which case it shouldn't matter to you what changes they made to said skill/trait. In reference to the May 8th patch notes specifically...they changed traits for ONE(1) specific Elite Specialization, there really shouldn't be a need to provide more information than they did. Why you might ask, those that just play a profession because they enjoy it won't or don't care about things like skill and/or trait changes, whilst those that play the same profession for say Raids or sPVP(at a high level) are usually intimately familiar with the profession and know exactly what each trait/skill does, there fore the changes to them will be almost readily apparent.

Normally, i'd agree...Except for this patch. I sincerely doubt you'd find people intimately familiar with underwater skill names.

But all of those got either increases in percentages or just straight increases in damage...with the exception of a very few nerfs(only 1 I noticed on Ranger, but that wasn't a big deal as far as I was concerned).

Sure but i still doubt you have people actually know what skills those were prior to looking them up. That's all im saying.

[Samnang.1879]

i agree with everything in the original post. as someone who plays all classes and specializations, these update notes are.... too much info to absorb. i don't have ADHD, but i dont like reading SUPER long things like this... i hate reading novels or essays like my attention span is shorter than an asura.

most of the times, i just learn of changes in the game from word of mouth, someone says, "oh meteor shower is nerfed" i read the skill in the game... that's how i update myself.

why can't anet make 2 or 3 changes to a class at a time instead of a million changes all at once...

[Zaklex.6308]

@Samnang.1879 said:i agree with everything in the original post. as someone who plays all classes and specializations, these update notes are.... too much info to absorb. i don't have ADHD, but i dont like reading SUPER long things like this... i hate reading novels or essays like my attention span is shorter than an asura.

~snip~

why can't anet make 2 or 3 changes to a class at a time instead of a million changes all at once...

One, those patch notes are not SUPER long, each not is a either a sentence or 2 at the most, and secondly, that's how balance updates work, usually large in scope, doing only 2 or 3 changes at a time would not affect how the game was played which is why so many changes need to be done at once. Have you tried just reading each line as a single notice, not reading the whole page as...well a whole page, it certainly isn't essay or novel length.

[Khubbo.9067]

i dont know all the traits for my main class/spec. i just wait for gw2wiki for their version

[Aelio.6390]

Dear Gaile and Dear All,

First thank you for all your answers (I still not believe that it was actually read by Anet :) ).I see from all these answers that I indeed missed few points of improvements that could be made.

I strongly believe that there is many among us that love to play a game under all the possible aspects and thus, won't be able to know names of each skill of 9 classes and probably never heard of the /wiki GU command (I discovered it here, even if I roam around Tyria since beginning of Gw1). Or just like me, are trying to be a good Raid Lead and try to know all the raid build as if they played the class themselves (while never playing it - scourge for instance for me, i love reaper more :D ).

Besides balance modification can modify the player will to play a class (prevent them from playing it or in the contrary re-light the fire - it did for my engineer few times).

---- Stop reading here if you have an attention span shorter than an asura (I loved this one) and take it back at the end ------

But I have few questions for Gaile - after reading this process (thx for detailing it to this level, allowing us to become more aware of your workload and to think more in depths about how it works). I had imagined that your publication process would have been in WYSIWYG formating and not in html formating (because it's kinda hellish to edit a proper and nice to the eyes text here :'( sorry about that btw).

My questions are (not in order of your post @"Gaile Gray.6029", but all should be there :) ):

• Who cares about deadlines nowadays ? :#

I would gladly wait 1 hour more and have comfort and pleasure reading the document, than having it faster but not especially exploitable... In private, I work in a official documentation and legal paper documentation >>> People always fear this and don't like and don't want to read them precisely because it is not appealing, it's not graphical (nowadays anything not graphic is not considered worth), it's not sexy ! :sAnd instead, when you present them the exact same text, but with colors, it's directly more easily accepted ;)

• About this part of hosting ("For instance, each icon would need to be hosted on an approved site, linked, and so forth."), isn't the wiki (precisely) an official, approved blablabla website, with all the required content ? Thus, is it impossible to consider using link to the wiki resources ? B) Or just to your own API ? I cannot think of anything more official <3

• Is it not possible to automate some task ? Like research and replace / insert, if it's closer to code and scripting than to Word document, it could be possible at the end of the process to have the "code-like" text go through a script that would add the link for images / or skill number (like mace 4 - great idea !) automatically.For sure, it would take few tries to develop such thing and have it run properly, but ... who never try hard challenging raid when starting it ? ;)And I'm pretty sure that you have few talented developpers for which making a script that research text and perform a pre-written action when the text is found is easier than taking a lolipop to a baby ;) just a coffee, one hand and 15 minutes in the morning ;)

• I understand the advantage for Anet as a company to spend less time (so less money) on this aspect, as the game is free to play and knowing that the bottom line is: you need to make some money at some point, I perfectly see the point of using the wiki and wiki folks. But then, why not reverse the issue ?I'm pretty sure you could ask for generous players / group of player to help you before the publication, to do this work - the same way you have had programs with youtubers :grin:

• Or then at least make as a first sentence a reminder of each Patchnote the /wiki GU command and a link to the wiki page - to explicitly shows that the patch is only PART 1, because without your explanation, I would have never guessed this Anet logic about this topic - things are better said :# Would it be possible ? It could always be the same line and this, I don't believe it would take more than a ctrl-c/ctrl-v.

• On the process side, why do the localisation before the closing of the compilation ? Because if you have a modification, you'll have to impact it on all 3 localised version.

• On a more technical side: do all teams that work on classes have different media ? Because I can understand that a team working on living world will have its own system, its own functionning and its own ways of tracking modifications being different than the team working on WvW. But isn't there a common system for all team working on the same kind of topic?

Anyway, I feel text format is not the best format to discuss this highly interesting beast (that seemed easy on the first look) and I stay at disposal to discuss it further :)

------ You can take it back now, you're almost done ;) ----

Please do consider (outside of graphic idea) the other ideas submitted here: like the HTML anchors, the tables/classification (like: underwater/not underwater - weapon skills / spells / traits - using weapons number like axe 3) to have more clarity on patchnote.

We may not be able to change the process (even if I believe it could be leaned), but we probably can sort few things out of this <3