Weaver is in dire need of nerf

[IcyNight.2578]

honestly, i think the only real issue with elementalist is the fact that there is no reason to ever remain in water/earth. i learned the hard way early on that water attunement can't truly heal me enough to survive....only stall for fire cooldowns to finish. in fact, it's often better to just remain in fire to kill everything before it kills you. air is a bit weaker, but it became viable once you could get enough traits. other 2 elements were mostly pointless pre-80.

you only really swap to water to proc your traits and maybe a single button press for a weak heal. riptide is at least decent for sword weaver, but i still find myself more survivable as a staff weaver juggling fire/air while occasionally swapping to water for the traits and a dual attack. no amount of healing power ever made me feel safe and i don't see water skills as impactful as just doing more damage in fire/air.

i rather say that water/earth attunements could use a buff to their skills. the traits are mostly fine.

[Feanor.2358]

Dunno mate, I can heal a full group by camping water.

[lLobo.7960]

If you gear and trait for healing, water attunment does amazing heals and fire/air do no dmg.If you trait for dps, water attunment does very little healing while fire/air deal a lot of dmg.

[Feanor.2358]

@lLobo.7960 said:If you gear and trait for healing, water attunment does amazing heals and fire/air do no dmg.If you trait for dps, water attunment does very little healing while fire/air deal a lot of dmg.

Obviously. You can also go cele and be mediocre at both. Choices.

[Belishine.7493]

i do not think weaver needs a nerf becosue its a high skill class so nerfing a class becouse a few players know the ins and outs of the class hurts everyone not just the higher ups.

[Menzo.2185]

People who don't know how to play are the first ones to complain in the forum. They say that the condi mesmer is OP, Dire n Zerker Weaver is OP, Full counter is OP, warrior dome is OP ... they don't know that there is a couter class for each one and they don't know how to deal with confusion, how to evade or block, how to reflect or retaliate... blah blah blah.

[Brujeria.7536]

100% agree here, weaver needs a huge nerf. Not only if built for full damage, when going for a tanky / sustaining build they are very durable while still dealing too much damage.

[reikken.4961]

@lLobo.7960 said:If you gear and trait for healing, water attunment does amazing heals and fire/air do no dmg.If you trait for dps, water attunment does very little healing while fire/air deal a lot of dmg.

you can gear and trait for heals and condi damagepower damage wants 3 stats, so that's harder, but you can certainly put out good burning while having a lot of healing

[Mini Crinny.6190]

@Brujeria.7536 said:100% agree here, weaver needs a huge nerf. Not only if built for full damage, when going for a tanky / sustaining build they are very durable while still dealing too much damage.

I imagine your talking about PvP and most eles will be running Sw/D if so, when you see them use a skill, just step to the side and you will be fine

[Brujeria.7536]

@Mini Crinny.6190 said:

@"Brujeria.7536" said:100% agree here, weaver needs a huge nerf. Not only if built for full damage, when going for a tanky / sustaining build they are very durable while still dealing too much damage.

I imagine your talking about PvP and most eles will be running Sw/D if so, when you see them use a skill, just step to the side and you will be fine

WvW roaming actually. With all the barrier / evades etc. its too strong offensive wise, even when not specced for it. I do know how to counter them, still the balance between damage and surviveability is too high in a "tanky" sustaining build if the ele knows what to do, thus the nerf of the damage. its ok if they invest in damage, though.

[Mini Crinny.6190]

@Brujeria.7536 said:

@Mini Crinny.6190 said:

@Brujeria.7536 said:100% agree here, weaver needs a huge nerf. Not only if built for full damage, when going for a tanky / sustaining build they are very durable while still dealing too much damage.

I imagine your talking about PvP and most eles will be running Sw/D if so, when you see them use a skill, just step to the side and you will be fine

WvW roaming actually. With all the barrier / evades etc. its too strong offensive wise, even when not specced for it. I do know how to counter them, still the balance between damage and surviveability is too high in a "tanky" sustaining build if the ele knows what to do, thus the nerf of the damage. its ok if they invest in damage, though.

Ah, I've always found Mesmer and Warrior to be way on top but if you find Ele too strong then :/

[Brujeria.7536]

@Mini Crinny.6190 said:

@Brujeria.7536 said:

@Mini Crinny.6190 said:

@Brujeria.7536 said:100% agree here, weaver needs a huge nerf. Not only if built for full damage, when going for a tanky / sustaining build they are very durable while still dealing too much damage.

I imagine your talking about PvP and most eles will be running Sw/D if so, when you see them use a skill, just step to the side and you will be fine

WvW roaming actually. With all the barrier / evades etc. its too strong offensive wise, even when not specced for it. I do know how to counter them, still the balance between damage and surviveability is too high in a "tanky" sustaining build if the ele knows what to do, thus the nerf of the damage. its ok if they invest in damage, though.

Ah, I've always found Mesmer and Warrior to be way on top but if you find Ele too strong then :/

Mesmer is broken af, no need to dicuss about any kind of build here. The standard warrior build has "counterplay" by enduring the endure pain applications, leaving him rather vulnerable after. Ele does not have this much damage, but almost no window of opportunity without defenses.

[Eddbopkins.2630]

@"Bakeneko.5826" said:Condi and zerk builds deals too much damage, Weaver (yes, weaver) traitline and 3rd skills needs tuning down to make more classes comparable in damage, because we are back to "ele is best, all others are useless" gameplay. And this is coming from ele main

You still believe this?

[Mega.5791]

@Brujeria.7536 said:

@Mini Crinny.6190 said:

@Brujeria.7536 said:

@Mini Crinny.6190 said:

@Brujeria.7536 said:100% agree here, weaver needs a huge nerf. Not only if built for full damage, when going for a tanky / sustaining build they are very durable while still dealing too much damage.

I imagine your talking about PvP and most eles will be running Sw/D if so, when you see them use a skill, just step to the side and you will be fine

WvW roaming actually. With all the barrier / evades etc. its too strong offensive wise, even when not specced for it. I do know how to counter them, still the balance between damage and surviveability is too high in a "tanky" sustaining build if the ele knows what to do, thus the nerf of the damage. its ok if they invest in damage, though.

Ah, I've always found Mesmer and Warrior to be way on top but if you find Ele too strong then :/

Mesmer is broken af, no need to dicuss about any kind of build here. The standard warrior build has "counterplay" by enduring the endure pain applications, leaving him rather vulnerable after. Ele does not have this much damage, but almost no window of opportunity without defenses.

The weaver build you speak of is prob s/d? They can be kited easily. They have a stun break on 40s CD (2 counts, I admit). They have about ten centimeters range. Watch out for their condi stance and step aside.

Kite them, stun them while they have no stability and just switched to fire/air, usually direct damage burst is better than condi. They clearly have counterbuilds.

[Brujeria.7536]

@Megametzler.5729 said:

@Brujeria.7536 said:

@Mini Crinny.6190 said:

@Brujeria.7536 said:

@Mini Crinny.6190 said:

@Brujeria.7536 said:100% agree here, weaver needs a huge nerf. Not only if built for full damage, when going for a tanky / sustaining build they are very durable while still dealing too much damage.

I imagine your talking about PvP and most eles will be running Sw/D if so, when you see them use a skill, just step to the side and you will be fine

WvW roaming actually. With all the barrier / evades etc. its too strong offensive wise, even when not specced for it. I do know how to counter them, still the balance between damage and surviveability is too high in a "tanky" sustaining build if the ele knows what to do, thus the nerf of the damage. its ok if they invest in damage, though.

Ah, I've always found Mesmer and Warrior to be way on top but if you find Ele too strong then :/

Mesmer is broken af, no need to dicuss about any kind of build here. The standard warrior build has "counterplay" by enduring the endure pain applications, leaving him rather vulnerable after. Ele does not have this much damage, but almost no window of opportunity without defenses.

The weaver build you speak of is prob s/d? They can be kited easily. They have a stun break on 40s CD (2 counts, I admit). They have about ten centimeters range. Watch out for their condi stance and step aside.

Kite them, stun them while they have no stability and just switched to fire/air, usually direct damage burst is better than condi. They clearly have counterbuilds.

Most likely they do, but the sustain is too high for the damage it does. Of course a lets say thief or good mesmer can eat them. But this counterplay should be built around what class you play, but how you play your build. Ele vs. Engineer is, for example, always a loss for the engi. They either need to tone down the innate damage so if they want to do damage it requires higher gear investment - or nerf the base sustain with barriers and dodges, along the healing an boomspam its too much they get for free.

[Mega.5791]

@Brujeria.7536 said:

@Megametzler.5729 said:

@Brujeria.7536 said:

@Mini Crinny.6190 said:

@Brujeria.7536 said:

@Mini Crinny.6190 said:

@Brujeria.7536 said:100% agree here, weaver needs a huge nerf. Not only if built for full damage, when going for a tanky / sustaining build they are very durable while still dealing too much damage.

I imagine your talking about PvP and most eles will be running Sw/D if so, when you see them use a skill, just step to the side and you will be fine

WvW roaming actually. With all the barrier / evades etc. its too strong offensive wise, even when not specced for it. I do know how to counter them, still the balance between damage and surviveability is too high in a "tanky" sustaining build if the ele knows what to do, thus the nerf of the damage. its ok if they invest in damage, though.

Ah, I've always found Mesmer and Warrior to be way on top but if you find Ele too strong then :/

Mesmer is broken af, no need to dicuss about any kind of build here. The standard warrior build has "counterplay" by enduring the endure pain applications, leaving him rather vulnerable after. Ele does not have this much damage, but almost no window of opportunity without defenses.

The weaver build you speak of is prob s/d? They can be kited easily. They have a stun break on 40s CD (2 counts, I admit). They have about ten centimeters range. Watch out for their condi stance and step aside.

Kite them, stun them while they have no stability and just switched to fire/air, usually direct damage burst is better than condi. They clearly have counterbuilds.

Most likely they do, but the sustain is too high for the damage it does. Of course a lets say thief or good mesmer can eat them. But this counterplay should be built around what class you play, but how you play your build. Ele vs. Engineer is, for example, always a loss for the engi. They either need to tone down the innate damage so if they want to do damage it requires higher gear investment - or nerf the base sustain with barriers and dodges, along the healing an boomspam its too much they get for free.

Hmm... I can't tell too much about WvW, but in PvP good engineers can be stalled at most. They are actually pretty dangerous for me there and the winrate is rather balanced. Really depends on CDs, movements, luck - and the mapwise setup.

Weaver actually has to invest quite a lot in several attributes to be helpful - be it damage or sustain or healing and such. But I admit, there might be strong attribute combinations that are definitely possible in WvW but not in PvP. The problem is: Even if you had to reduce ele's damage in WvW, we need some kinds of buffs (or just range extensions...) to be viable.

But in the end: I admit, I don't really know about WvW. I just know our general weaknesses, give them a try. Of course, we do also have classes we are really strong against. :P

[steki.1478]

@Brujeria.7536 said:

@Megametzler.5729 said:

@Brujeria.7536 said:

@Mini Crinny.6190 said:

@Brujeria.7536 said:

@Mini Crinny.6190 said:

@Brujeria.7536 said:100% agree here, weaver needs a huge nerf. Not only if built for full damage, when going for a tanky / sustaining build they are very durable while still dealing too much damage.

I imagine your talking about PvP and most eles will be running Sw/D if so, when you see them use a skill, just step to the side and you will be fine

WvW roaming actually. With all the barrier / evades etc. its too strong offensive wise, even when not specced for it. I do know how to counter them, still the balance between damage and surviveability is too high in a "tanky" sustaining build if the ele knows what to do, thus the nerf of the damage. its ok if they invest in damage, though.

Ah, I've always found Mesmer and Warrior to be way on top but if you find Ele too strong then :/

Mesmer is broken af, no need to dicuss about any kind of build here. The standard warrior build has "counterplay" by enduring the endure pain applications, leaving him rather vulnerable after. Ele does not have this much damage, but almost no window of opportunity without defenses.

The weaver build you speak of is prob s/d? They can be kited easily. They have a stun break on 40s CD (2 counts, I admit). They have about ten centimeters range. Watch out for their condi stance and step aside.

Kite them, stun them while they have no stability and just switched to fire/air, usually direct damage burst is better than condi. They clearly have counterbuilds.

Most likely they do, but the sustain is too high for the damage it does. Of course a lets say thief or good mesmer can eat them. But this counterplay should be built around what class you play, but how you play your build. Ele vs. Engineer is, for example, always a loss for the engi. They either need to tone down the innate damage so if they want to do damage it requires higher gear investment - or nerf the base sustain with barriers and dodges, along the healing an boomspam its too much they get for free.

There's already big stat investment in defense because it's base sustain is crap, and when you invest in defense you lose in offense. S/d barely even does damage. On top of that it can't reliably stay on high might stacks like some other classes, which have high sustain on glassy builds. Engi has access to more boons at any time as well.

So essentially you're comparing tank weaver to a glass cannon with sustain and perma 20+ might and saying that it does more damage. Get your facts straight.

[Feanor.2358]

@Brujeria.7536 said:

@Mini Crinny.6190 said:

@Brujeria.7536 said:100% agree here, weaver needs a huge nerf. Not only if built for full damage, when going for a tanky / sustaining build they are very durable while still dealing too much damage.

I imagine your talking about PvP and most eles will be running Sw/D if so, when you see them use a skill, just step to the side and you will be fine

WvW roaming actually. With all the barrier / evades etc. its too strong offensive wise, even when not specced for it. I do know how to counter them, still the balance between damage and surviveability is too high in a "tanky" sustaining build if the ele knows what to do, thus the nerf of the damage. its ok if they invest in damage, though.

Comments how strong weaver is in wvw, coming from the scourge. Wait a minute, where have I seen scourges in wvw? Oh, right, they dominate each and every squad out there. Thanks to their ability to spam both condis and barriers at an absurd rate. And not just on one enemy or themselves, respectively.

[Arheundel.6451]

@Brujeria.7536 said:

@Mini Crinny.6190 said:

@Brujeria.7536 said:100% agree here, weaver needs a huge nerf. Not only if built for full damage, when going for a tanky / sustaining build they are very durable while still dealing too much damage.

I imagine your talking about PvP and most eles will be running Sw/D if so, when you see them use a skill, just step to the side and you will be fine

WvW roaming actually. With all the barrier / evades etc. its too strong offensive wise, even when not specced for it. I do know how to counter them, still the balance between damage and surviveability is too high in a "tanky" sustaining build if the ele knows what to do, thus the nerf of the damage. its ok if they invest in damage, though.

Then we should stream a fight of you using a weaver .....against me ( don't worry I won't use mesmer), you should be able to "kill" me..am I right?...we will all be waiting for your reply to accept my request

[steki.1478]

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@Brujeria.7536 said:

@Mini Crinny.6190 said:

@Brujeria.7536 said:100% agree here, weaver needs a huge nerf. Not only if built for full damage, when going for a tanky / sustaining build they are very durable while still dealing too much damage.

I imagine your talking about PvP and most eles will be running Sw/D if so, when you see them use a skill, just step to the side and you will be fine

WvW roaming actually. With all the barrier / evades etc. its too strong offensive wise, even when not specced for it. I do know how to counter them, still the balance between damage and surviveability is too high in a "tanky" sustaining build if the ele knows what to do, thus the nerf of the damage. its ok if they invest in damage, though.

Then we should stream a fight of you using a weaver .....

against me

( don't worry I won't use mesmer), you should be able to "kill" me..am I right?...we will all be waiting for your reply to accept my request

What does that have to do with weaver being op though? Weaver is designed to be either glass cannon or a tanky dueler, scourge is none of those.

[Jski.6180]

@steki.1478 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@Brujeria.7536 said:

@Mini Crinny.6190 said:

@Brujeria.7536 said:100% agree here, weaver needs a huge nerf. Not only if built for full damage, when going for a tanky / sustaining build they are very durable while still dealing too much damage.

I imagine your talking about PvP and most eles will be running Sw/D if so, when you see them use a skill, just step to the side and you will be fine

WvW roaming actually. With all the barrier / evades etc. its too strong offensive wise, even when not specced for it. I do know how to counter them, still the balance between damage and surviveability is too high in a "tanky" sustaining build if the ele knows what to do, thus the nerf of the damage. its ok if they invest in damage, though.

Then we should stream a fight of you using a weaver .....

against me

( don't worry I won't use mesmer), you should be able to "kill" me..am I right?...we will all be waiting for your reply to accept my request

What does that have to do with weaver being op though? Weaver is designed to be either glass cannon or a tanky dueler, scourge is none of those.

Who has more barrier?

[steki.1478]

@Jski.6180 said:

@steki.1478 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@Brujeria.7536 said:

@Mini Crinny.6190 said:

@Brujeria.7536 said:100% agree here, weaver needs a huge nerf. Not only if built for full damage, when going for a tanky / sustaining build they are very durable while still dealing too much damage.

I imagine your talking about PvP and most eles will be running Sw/D if so, when you see them use a skill, just step to the side and you will be fine

WvW roaming actually. With all the barrier / evades etc. its too strong offensive wise, even when not specced for it. I do know how to counter them, still the balance between damage and surviveability is too high in a "tanky" sustaining build if the ele knows what to do, thus the nerf of the damage. its ok if they invest in damage, though.

Then we should stream a fight of you using a weaver .....

against me

( don't worry I won't use mesmer), you should be able to "kill" me..am I right?...we will all be waiting for your reply to accept my request

What does that have to do with weaver being op though? Weaver is designed to be either glass cannon or a tanky dueler, scourge is none of those.

Who has more barrier?

Scourge has bigger instant applications with long cooldowns. Weaver's barrier come frequently but in small amounts.

It depends how long the fight is.

[Jski.6180]

@steki.1478 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@steki.1478 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@Brujeria.7536 said:

@Mini Crinny.6190 said:

@Brujeria.7536 said:100% agree here, weaver needs a huge nerf. Not only if built for full damage, when going for a tanky / sustaining build they are very durable while still dealing too much damage.

I imagine your talking about PvP and most eles will be running Sw/D if so, when you see them use a skill, just step to the side and you will be fine

WvW roaming actually. With all the barrier / evades etc. its too strong offensive wise, even when not specced for it. I do know how to counter them, still the balance between damage and surviveability is too high in a "tanky" sustaining build if the ele knows what to do, thus the nerf of the damage. its ok if they invest in damage, though.

Then we should stream a fight of you using a weaver .....

against me

( don't worry I won't use mesmer), you should be able to "kill" me..am I right?...we will all be waiting for your reply to accept my request

What does that have to do with weaver being op though? Weaver is designed to be either glass cannon or a tanky dueler, scourge is none of those.

Who has more barrier?

Scourge has bigger instant applications with long cooldowns. Weaver's barrier come frequently but in small amounts.

It depends how long the fight is.

8 sec is low cd 50 sec is a long cd.

[steki.1478]

@Jski.6180 said:

8 sec is low cd 50 sec is a long cd.

What's your point?

[Jski.6180]

@steki.1478 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

8 sec is low cd 50 sec is a long cd.

What's your point?

I would not call what scourge has as long cool-down applications its only slightly longer cd then what weaver has but significantly stronger and aoe.