[WvW] Will the last tempest/core Ele plz turn out the light?

Jski.6180 · June 27, 2018

Even for low number groups its hard to make the argument to run tempest or even core ele when weaver gives you what is effectually free boost from just being a weaver like the old atument lines use to do more of nearly every thing as well as getting a dubble tip on healing power with barrier.

TheQuickFox.3826 · June 28, 2018

@"Garfried.7295" said:I'm one of those what you call "build nazı's" on Vabbi. No matter how well you think your build is thought out, in reality it is very bad. There are many veteran players on Vabbi that are able to understand figthing meta and understand the difference between a build that feels useful and a build that is useful. Currently the large scale fighting meta builds are very well discussed and defined.Part of the reason why vabbi is strong in open field fights is because many of our players accept this and try to contribute to the best of their ability by playing the meta builds and making sure the squad composition is well-balanced in this regard. As such, most Vabbi commanders consider people that insist on playing off-meta builds as toxic influences that don't want to contribute to the fighting ability of the zerg or the community. As a result they don't accept them in their squads. If you really want to play your build instead of contribute to the best of your ability, you are free to do so outside of it.

Thanks for commenting and explaining your side of the story.I can at least partly agree with you on your opinion about the build I run. I can only add that I don't run my build for zerging. To be honest, I'm terrible at it and a cookie cutter meta build will not likely change this. In WvW I like to focus on capping and sometimes defending or roaming. If I ended up in a purely zerg-vs-zerging group this has been by accident, as I cannot learn from the tag color if a group wants to focus on capturing or large scale group fights. When I observe a group for some time and notice that the only thing they do is blobbing, I tend to leave myself anyways. However, I'm often welcomed by squad commanders to join so they can communicate via squad chat, markers and see my supply information and we have wonderful playing sessions by players with any build. When I squad is full or nearly full I can understand that leaders want to select the players they consider to be the most effective, also when this means that players like I get excluded from the squad for some time. However, I still see no real reason to kick players from a half-full squad unless a commander wants to force-feed a player to certain (meta) builds. But it is their decision. In that case, I will look for another commander and when there is none, just follow the tag outside the squad or do some roaming.

Having said this, I can add that I've had some wonderful capping/nightcapping sessions and even brought a tag up from time to time to take our HBL back with a small and casual capping group. (Which is not a small thing for me as newbie comm and anything but a natural born leader). It still gave me a lot of satisfaction to change a bunch of clueless players standing around doing nothing to a somewhat organized group by putting a tag up and providing a route and sieges. On a late night, this can make the difference between a red (enemy) borderland and a blue (our) one. Sure, we got overran by an enemy blob sometimes, but that's the risk of playing WvW. And my attitude is always that anyone is welcome. in the end, even a shitty build (debatable) has more DPS / healing than no player at all. I guess that this is also the attitude of the guild (Newbie Love[LOVE]) where I'm currently part of.

@Fizzee.1762 While I don't use any add-ons like ArcDPS for safety reasons (3rd party programs) I can tell you that the reason for a lower DPS is most likely that I invest as many points in defensive stats as in offensive ones. I prefer to have a decent amount of vitality, toughness and healing power besides my offensive attributes to not get vaporized by most attacks. This of course comes at a price in DPS in comparison of pure zerker/glass cannon builds. For me, the added survivability is worth it because DPS is quite low when defeated. ;)

supreme.3602 · June 28, 2018

You are what we would call a "casual". I will side with my Vabbi friends on this one.

Infusion.7149 · June 28, 2018

All the commanders want Firebrands (mantras are instant) and Scourges.

Your tempest ele build isn't really suitable for zerging because scepter is underwhelming (900 range also puts you at great risk from scourges) and really the only utilities for WvW you ought to use on tempest are the shouts , lightning flash , + stunbreak (such as mist form).

Weaver is used with highly glass builds, my rev has been hit for 8-11K before , not sure with vulnerability or whatnot but it's a huge difference to what you posted with 20K HP.

Before being creative I highly suggest you play a meta build a few days at the very least to get a baseline for what is expected from any build you make yourself.

You need to think of what your build brings to the table other classes cannot. If you go staff tempest with auras for example, auras can't be boon corrupted and you can blow up siege on walls with meteor shower + fireball splash damage.

It's a vastly different environment than before when soldier's armor + berserker trinkets staff ele running arcane+fire+water was a thing.

TheQuickFox.3826 · June 28, 2018

@"Dahir.4158" said:You are what we would call a "casual". I will side with my Vabbi friends on this one.

Yes, I guess you could call me casual-ish. Casual in play style but not casual in dedication to GW2 (currently at 3797 hours played over 2133 days and WvW rank 2000)There will always remain differences in play styles which can be a source for irritations. This cannot always be bridged and maybe we should not even want to do this. In the end, playstyles differ as much as personalities.

But I like to end with giving this as consideration: while I don't know if this is true about Vabbi: percentage-wise the GW2 playerbase is probably more on the casual side than the hardcore side and it would be a plus when these casuals are welcome as well.

killahmayne.9518 · June 30, 2018

tempest support ele actually isn't bad, the problem is that firebrand does everything better than tempest support.

Tempest ele cannot compete with firebrand in terms of stability, condition hate, boon generation, healing.

However I do find myself playing tempest ele because I feel it more mobile and enjoyable, and arguably more survivable (maybe not). And also aura share, but that comes at a cost of having almost non-existent condi removal for your group which is very costly. You would need another class like a firebrand who could clear condis. But why not just play another FB? I do like Eye of the Storm though on tempest and I find myself running that a lot to help escape from zergs when I roam with a group.

I think they need to make auras more of a defining feature for the Tempest, and make it more powerful for Tempest exclusively so that it could be a viable alternative. Like I said, Tempest is still a good support and you can be successful with it, it just isn't by any means optimal and they don't bring anything to the table that a firebrand can't.

Chasind.3128 · July 1, 2018

Firebrand and revenants give more boons and heals than a healing tempest/ core ele. Don't blame the wvw commanders, blame the people who create class content. I'm in T1 with my guild of 20 and our commander wants us to run builds that aren't META and we are still super effective. We encourage holosmiths, mesmers, soul beasts etc but honestly, if you give no boons/ no heals or anything (like a core necro or core ranger) you're put in a squad with all of the vanilla players so you're not stealing boons from the other wvw players who actually can push zergs.

Waisenpai.6028 · July 2, 2018

Or you can be a very popular in Ele roamer so any commander would add you on sight or detour his or her sqaud or zerg to help you if required.

Why would a commander like an ele they are cuddley and have Tornado to counter enemy stability or might stackers .

Be the ele that enemy zergs or havoc team constantly chase after to kill on sight every day until you are buddy server under them.

Ele's almost never lose 1v1 maybe in some 1v2 if there are crazy boon stripping and cc power spikes. Just avoid very very high level, power/condi/tank/healing hybrid mirages. They can handle most 1v 2 easily.( each server has only 0 or 2 of these only)

Waisenpai.6028 · July 2, 2018

You could still play staff tempest: Arcane Water and Tempest. Just use earth and water cantrips and one shout.

supreme.3602 · July 2, 2018

@Waisenpai.6028 said:Or you can be a very popular in Ele roamer so any commander would add you on sight or detour his or her sqaud or zerg to help you if required.
Why would a commander like an ele they are cuddley and have Tornado to counter enemy stability or might stackers .
Be the ele that enemy zergs or havoc team constantly chase after to kill on sight every day until you are buddy server under them.

Haha, I've experienced this vs my old server, Vabbi :(

Etheri.5406 · July 5, 2018

@"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:so what you are saying is: you let them get their keeps to t3 and instead of pulling them out, you just ran around, complained that nobody wants to fight and did nothing?
Yeah, sounds like Vabbi :P

You mean "oh you're a fight server so you must come fight our queue'd map inside our garri because we don't want to improve"My bad.

@TheQuickFox.3826 said:
@"Dahir.4158" said:You are what we would call a "casual". I will side with my Vabbi friends on this one.

Yes, I guess you could call me casual-ish. Casual in play style but not casual in dedication to GW2 (currently at 3797 hours played over 2133 days and WvW rank 2000)There will always remain differences in play styles which can be a source for irritations. This cannot always be bridged and maybe we should not even want to do this. In the end, playstyles differ as much as personalities.

But I like to end with giving this as consideration: while I don't know if this is true about Vabbi: percentage-wise the GW2 playerbase is probably more on the casual side than the hardcore side and it would be a plus when these casuals are welcome as well.

Hello. I'm a long time ele main. I'm one of those vabbi nazi classist that kicks every tempest (and all the other illegal classes, specs, signets, ...).

I know this is incredibly annoying. I know a majority of players in GW2 are "casual". That's exactly why vabbi was created. Other servers would not allow us to play organised; and insisted we had to accept anything and anyone at all times. That's fine if you have 20 or 30% casual players doing their thing. However, as more and more veterans quit the game we quickly realised that commanders and our groups couldn't do their thing anymore. Instead of leading the 50-60 players around us, we were leading 20 players around us and the 40 casuals just did... something.

And these casuals aren't "casual" as in they're new. Just like you, they have thousands of hours played. They want to follow but no matter howmuch you ask them to run a build, come discord, do something, not do something else, it does not matter. They refuse to listen. So we have our own server; and anyone who joins our groups has to play by our rules. If not, then sorry but we are not leading for you and you should find something else to do.

I'd tell you to follow RoS comms... But there aren't any. You're very welcome to do whatever you please while roaming. But I'll continue to kick tempests from zergs.

Core eles aren't bad; I agree with steki they're almost on par with weaver (weaver wins by a decent margin if you have good support; but usually you don't so core ele is pretty good). However since the scourge nerfs, vabbi has been seeing a LOT more eles; at times 15+. Almost everything JSW said is wrong, but they are correct that weavers NEED scourges to do their job in order to really be strong. So there were moments where we asked players to reroll off ele to something else; simply because too many players were playing ele as an excuse to slack behind and tag downstates without contributing. If we ask to reroll and only 2 out of 15 eles / weavers / tempests reply; I'd genuinely kick all of them :astonished:

Any player is welcome to join us on discord and join our public leads, as long as they play by our rules. If they're not willing to play by our rules, then i'm sorry but you're not really welcome in our squads. We have plenty of players waiting in queue who gladly will. Whatever you do roaming or making your own squads is your business.

I would happily "change" my strict full nazi rules if it would lead to 5-10 casuals in a seperate party in my squad. Unfortunately, it leads to 10 players rolling something useful, and 30-40 casuals. And frankly that's just not enjoyable or interactive to lead. It removes all chances for strategy, organisation and teamplay as the casual players plain refuse to do anything other than their personal interests and the chaotic clowny style that follows.

It's your right to play like you want as much as it's our right to play as we want. And having strict rules is required for us to play as we wish. Despite the game being predominantly casual; vabbi does not struggle with getting players willing to join its squads who don't mind these rules.

As far as weaver balance goes; weaver is very very strong and good weavers are certainly appreciated; even on vabbi. Yet to see any squad say no to the better vabbi eles.

@"Dahir.4158" Broski you deserved getting ranger'd for the unlimited range air procs.

supreme.3602 · July 5, 2018

@Etheri.5406 said:@"Dahir.4158" Broski you deserved getting ranger'd for the unlimited range air procs.

Always funny to hear people shouting on Vabbi discord,

"IT'S BROSKI.""WHERE?""BY THE TREE ON THE LEFT!""OK GET HIM!"

Etheri.5406 · July 5, 2018

@"Dahir.4158" said:
@Etheri.5406 said:@"Dahir.4158" Broski you deserved getting ranger'd for the unlimited range air procs.

Always funny to hear people shouting on Vabbi discord,

"IT'S BROSKI.""WHERE?""BY THE TREE ON THE LEFT!""OK GET HIM!"

Haha. Yeah that does sound fair. I don't think it's particularly more or less than the other "known" players. And i'm sure WSR is no different at times; you and phanen had the air procs way too nicely lined up to be coincidental.

Besides, your auramancer playstyle was literally "come get me biatches /taunt"

supreme.3602 · July 5, 2018

@Etheri.5406 said:
@"Dahir.4158" said:
@Etheri.5406 said:@"Dahir.4158" Broski you deserved getting ranger'd for the unlimited range air procs.

Always funny to hear people shouting on Vabbi discord,

"IT'S BROSKI.""WHERE?""BY THE TREE ON THE LEFT!""OK GET HIM!"

Haha. Yeah that does sound fair. I don't think it's particularly more or less than the other "known" players. And i'm sure WSR is no different at times; you and phanen had the air procs way too nicely lined up to be coincidental.

Besides, your auramancer playstyle was literally "come get me biatches /taunt"

Hahahaha, those were good times. Yeah... not coincidental, lol.When I'm an auramancer against Vabbi, and I'm repping "Thirty Vabbi Scourges Cant Kill [Me]", what else would it be other than to taunt?

Etheri.5406 · July 5, 2018

@"Dahir.4158" said:
@Etheri.5406 said:
@"Dahir.4158" said:
@Etheri.5406 said:@"Dahir.4158" Broski you deserved getting ranger'd for the unlimited range air procs.

Always funny to hear people shouting on Vabbi discord,

"IT'S BROSKI.""WHERE?""BY THE TREE ON THE LEFT!""OK GET HIM!"

Haha. Yeah that does sound fair. I don't think it's particularly more or less than the other "known" players. And i'm sure WSR is no different at times; you and phanen had the air procs way too nicely lined up to be coincidental.

Besides, your auramancer playstyle was literally "come get me biatches /taunt"

Hahahaha, those were good times. Yeah... not coincidental, lol.When I'm an auramancer against Vabbi, and I'm repping "Thirty Vabbi Scourges Cant Kill [Me], what else would it be other than to taunt?

A distraction for the unexpected WSR full melee push?!By the way, I hear rumors of ppt'ing to get 2nd to fight ... KISS? I'm disappointed.

VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig. · July 5, 2018

so wsr - how is it going now that GH is left and KISS does not supply any coms for you anymore?

I saw too many evenings with the only coms on the maps supplied by GH - and two of them KISS...

supreme.3602 · July 5, 2018

@"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:so wsr - how is it going now that GH is left and KISS does not supply any coms for you anymore?
I saw too many evenings with the only coms on the maps supplied by GH - and two of them KISS...

We don't need you.

VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig. · July 5, 2018

I am so excited to meet you guys again in a couple of hours. And then watch KISS roflstomp you :p

supreme.3602 · July 5, 2018

@"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:I am so excited to meet you guys again in a couple of hours. And then watch KISS roflstomp you :p

I hope you still don't use Signet of Restoration while participating in zerg fights. I noticed that on you once.

steki.1478 · July 6, 2018

@Etheri.5406 said:
@"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:so what you are saying is: you let them get their keeps to t3 and instead of pulling them out, you just ran around, complained that nobody wants to fight and did nothing?
Yeah, sounds like Vabbi :P

You mean "oh you're a fight server so you must come fight our queue'd map inside our garri because we don't want to improve"My bad.

@TheQuickFox.3826 said:
@"Dahir.4158" said:You are what we would call a "casual". I will side with my Vabbi friends on this one.

Yes, I guess you could call me casual-ish. Casual in play style but not casual in dedication to GW2 (currently at 3797 hours played over 2133 days and WvW rank 2000)There will always remain differences in play styles which can be a source for irritations. This cannot always be bridged and maybe we should not even want to do this. In the end, playstyles differ as much as personalities.

But I like to end with giving this as consideration: while I don't know if this is true about Vabbi: percentage-wise the GW2 playerbase is probably more on the casual side than the hardcore side and it would be a plus when these casuals are welcome as well.

Hello. I'm a long time ele main. I'm one of those vabbi kitten classist that kicks every tempest (and all the other illegal classes, specs, signets, ...).

I know this is incredibly annoying. I know a majority of players in GW2 are "casual". That's exactly why vabbi was created. Other servers would not allow us to play organised; and insisted we had to accept anything and anyone at all times. That's fine if you have 20 or 30% casual players doing their thing. However, as more and more veterans quit the game we quickly realised that commanders and our groups couldn't do their thing anymore. Instead of leading the 50-60 players around us, we were leading 20 players around us and the 40 casuals just did... something.

And these casuals aren't "casual" as in they're new. Just like you, they have thousands of hours played. They want to follow but no matter howmuch you ask them to run a build, come discord, do something, not do something else, it does not matter. They refuse to listen. So we have our own server; and anyone who joins our groups has to play by our rules. If not, then sorry but we are not leading for you and you should find something else to do.

I'd tell you to follow RoS comms... But there aren't any. You're very welcome to do whatever you please while roaming. But I'll continue to kick tempests from zergs.

Core eles aren't bad; I agree with steki they're almost on par with weaver (weaver wins by a decent margin if you have good support; but usually you don't so core ele is pretty good). However since the scourge nerfs, vabbi has been seeing a LOT more eles; at times 15+. Almost everything JSW said is wrong, but they are correct that weavers NEED scourges to do their job in order to really be strong. So there were moments where we asked players to reroll off ele to something else; simply because too many players were playing ele as an excuse to slack behind and tag downstates without contributing. If we ask to reroll and only 2 out of 15 eles / weavers / tempests reply; I'd genuinely kick all of them :astonished:

Any player is welcome to join us on discord and join our public leads, as long as they play by our rules. If they're not willing to play by our rules, then i'm sorry but you're not really welcome in our squads. We have plenty of players waiting in queue who gladly will. Whatever you do roaming or making your own squads is your business.

I would happily "change" my strict full kitten rules if it would lead to 5-10 casuals in a seperate party in my squad. Unfortunately, it leads to 10 players rolling something useful, and 30-40 casuals. And frankly that's just not enjoyable or interactive to lead. It removes all chances for strategy, organisation and teamplay as the casual players plain refuse to do anything other than their personal interests and the chaotic clowny style that follows.

It's your right to play like you want as much as it's our right to play as we want. And having strict rules is required for us to play as we wish. Despite the game being predominantly casual; vabbi does not struggle with getting players willing to join its squads who don't mind these rules.

As far as weaver balance goes; weaver is very very strong and good weavers are certainly appreciated; even on vabbi. Yet to see any squad say no to the better vabbi eles.

@"Dahir.4158" Broski you deserved getting ranger'd for the unlimited range air procs.

Those air procs were the only reason why I roamed with staff instead of scepter. Was such a good and fun bug.

Etheri.5406 · July 6, 2018

@steki.1478 said:
@Etheri.5406 said:
@"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:so what you are saying is: you let them get their keeps to t3 and instead of pulling them out, you just ran around, complained that nobody wants to fight and did nothing?
Yeah, sounds like Vabbi :P