Why is everyone crying about condi builds but not spellbreaker?

[Poseidon.3852]

Whenever I see people complaining about a class being too hard to play against, it is usually because they don't know (and in some cases don't want to know) how that class works. In most cases, people complain that a class is unbeatable if it is not enough to just know your own profession very well.

Most specs are beatable by other professions if you know how to play your profession very well and it comes down to who plays their own character better. However, some specs require you to know their ins and outs better than you know yourself to beat them. As somebody has stated in this thread, spellbreakers are as easy (or hard) to beat as any other spec if you take care not to proc their Full Counter. The same goes for the Mirage too. If you know how it works, what is going to happen when he does something and etc, it is as easy to beat as any other class. The problem here is that you actually have to think about what your opponent is doing and not just how well you are playing your own class. This is not a problem tho, it gives depth to the game.

Lastly, not every class is supposed to be able to beat every other class! Every class has a spec that makes it good for something specific! This encourages team play, and if you see somebody that is a hard-counter to you, don't approach alone! Honestly, I think that GW2 has spoiled most players with its vast amount of soloable content. PvP should not be like that and not everything should work 1vs1. That is not balance in an MMORPG!! If you want that, just go play counter-strike or something that's inherently 1vs1 like Heartstone or whatever.

P.S.: More PvP game modes besides Siege and Conquest ARE LOOOOONG OVERDUE. Seriously.... we need more maps in those same modes and more modes in general. At least 2 new maps and 1 game mode per expansion wouldn't be too much to ask, IMO.

[TheDevice.2751]

I just find it funny how insanely bad Reaper is compared to SB.

This dev team XD. They are such trolls.

[jsp.6912]

sb need nerf like holo, fb, mirage, thief

[storm.3120]

@Blocki.4931 said:

@Poelala.2830 said:

@Blocki.4931 said:

@Poelala.2830 said:

@KryTiKaL.3125 said:@"UfoCoffee.2084" Wanna know how to beat a Spellbreaker? Don't proc Full Counter. How easy is that? Very.

Full Counter being proc'd and landing its damage is what mainly gives Spellbreaker its crazy sustain because it refreshes their burst skills. Avoid getting hit with Full Counter and the Burst skills and the Warrior has no sustain, even if Endure Pain procs or they use it they won't be regaining health except from Healing Signet and thats not a very large heal tick. Warrior's sustain is tied to being able to land their burst skills, including Full Counter, deny them this and they have to hard disengage or you just kill them.

This does give them an advantage in outnumbered fights because people typically get complacent and just go all out on Spellbreakers and as such it procs their Full Counter constantly which gives the Warrior the advantage. Deny them their Adrenal Health stacks and its an easier fight.

This is very false. Each sentence is more false than the one preceding it. Do you really think full counter is more than 10% of a war’s damage? While rampage is a thing? While we hit 10k whirling blades? Lol...

Uhhh

FC is far more damage than that, yeah.

The kitten you hitting 10k whirling blades on? On downed? Rampage is telegraphed as all hell, can be kited/blinded etc.

FC will be used multiple times and hits like a truck, pretty reliably too.

Just the audacity to compare a channeled skill dealing 10k over 3 seconds to an instant burst of around 8k+ damage is beyond me

I’ve never seen fc hit 8k. Never.

Might stacks, Revenge Counter, Peak Performance and Berserker's Power and it will easily deal that much. It's the most damaging skill you will always land, especially so in WvW where you can just dip into an aoe circle on the floor to trigger it etc.

You're right though. It usually hits more around 5 to 6k.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/377466366799773717/445693668360192011/gw454.jpg (9k FC)p.s gs3 does up to 15k ;)

[Blocki.4931]

@Odik.4587 said:

@Blocki.4931 said:

@Poelala.2830 said:

@Blocki.4931 said:

@Poelala.2830 said:

@KryTiKaL.3125 said:@"UfoCoffee.2084" Wanna know how to beat a Spellbreaker? Don't proc Full Counter. How easy is that? Very.

Full Counter being proc'd and landing its damage is what mainly gives Spellbreaker its crazy sustain because it refreshes their burst skills. Avoid getting hit with Full Counter and the Burst skills and the Warrior has no sustain, even if Endure Pain procs or they use it they won't be regaining health except from Healing Signet and thats not a very large heal tick. Warrior's sustain is tied to being able to land their burst skills, including Full Counter, deny them this and they have to hard disengage or you just kill them.

This does give them an advantage in outnumbered fights because people typically get complacent and just go all out on Spellbreakers and as such it procs their Full Counter constantly which gives the Warrior the advantage. Deny them their Adrenal Health stacks and its an easier fight.

This is very false. Each sentence is more false than the one preceding it. Do you really think full counter is more than 10% of a war’s damage? While rampage is a thing? While we hit 10k whirling blades? Lol...

Uhhh

FC is far more damage than that, yeah.

The kitten you hitting 10k whirling blades on? On downed? Rampage is telegraphed as all hell, can be kited/blinded etc.

FC will be used multiple times and hits like a truck, pretty reliably too.

Just the audacity to compare a channeled skill dealing 10k over 3 seconds to an instant burst of around 8k+ damage is beyond me

I’ve never seen fc hit 8k. Never.

Might stacks, Revenge Counter, Peak Performance and Berserker's Power and it will easily deal that much. It's the most damaging skill you will always land, especially so in WvW where you can just dip into an aoe circle on the floor to trigger it etc.

You're right though. It usually hits more around 5 to 6k.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/377466366799773717/445693668360192011/gw454.jpg

p.s gs3 does up to 15k ;)

Yeah if you crit and get all hits off

Same argument as Axe 5, though not nearly as bad.

[storm.3120]

@Blocki.4931 said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@Blocki.4931 said:

@Poelala.2830 said:

@Blocki.4931 said:

@Poelala.2830 said:

@KryTiKaL.3125 said:@"UfoCoffee.2084" Wanna know how to beat a Spellbreaker? Don't proc Full Counter. How easy is that? Very.

Full Counter being proc'd and landing its damage is what mainly gives Spellbreaker its crazy sustain because it refreshes their burst skills. Avoid getting hit with Full Counter and the Burst skills and the Warrior has no sustain, even if Endure Pain procs or they use it they won't be regaining health except from Healing Signet and thats not a very large heal tick. Warrior's sustain is tied to being able to land their burst skills, including Full Counter, deny them this and they have to hard disengage or you just kill them.

This does give them an advantage in outnumbered fights because people typically get complacent and just go all out on Spellbreakers and as such it procs their Full Counter constantly which gives the Warrior the advantage. Deny them their Adrenal Health stacks and its an easier fight.

This is very false. Each sentence is more false than the one preceding it. Do you really think full counter is more than 10% of a war’s damage? While rampage is a thing? While we hit 10k whirling blades? Lol...

Uhhh

FC is far more damage than that, yeah.

The kitten you hitting 10k whirling blades on? On downed? Rampage is telegraphed as all hell, can be kited/blinded etc.

FC will be used multiple times and hits like a truck, pretty reliably too.

Just the audacity to compare a channeled skill dealing 10k over 3 seconds to an instant burst of around 8k+ damage is beyond me

I’ve never seen fc hit 8k. Never.

Might stacks, Revenge Counter, Peak Performance and Berserker's Power and it will easily deal that much. It's the most damaging skill you will always land, especially so in WvW where you can just dip into an aoe circle on the floor to trigger it etc.

You're right though. It usually hits more around 5 to 6k.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/377466366799773717/445693668360192011/gw454.jpg

p.s gs3 does up to 15k ;)

Yeah if you crit and get all hits off

Same argument as Axe 5, though not nearly as bad.

You are pretty much mental if you compare gs3 to axe 5

[Blocki.4931]

@Odik.4587 said:

@Blocki.4931 said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@Blocki.4931 said:

@Poelala.2830 said:

@Blocki.4931 said:

@Poelala.2830 said:

@KryTiKaL.3125 said:@"UfoCoffee.2084" Wanna know how to beat a Spellbreaker? Don't proc Full Counter. How easy is that? Very.

Full Counter being proc'd and landing its damage is what mainly gives Spellbreaker its crazy sustain because it refreshes their burst skills. Avoid getting hit with Full Counter and the Burst skills and the Warrior has no sustain, even if Endure Pain procs or they use it they won't be regaining health except from Healing Signet and thats not a very large heal tick. Warrior's sustain is tied to being able to land their burst skills, including Full Counter, deny them this and they have to hard disengage or you just kill them.

This does give them an advantage in outnumbered fights because people typically get complacent and just go all out on Spellbreakers and as such it procs their Full Counter constantly which gives the Warrior the advantage. Deny them their Adrenal Health stacks and its an easier fight.

This is very false. Each sentence is more false than the one preceding it. Do you really think full counter is more than 10% of a war’s damage? While rampage is a thing? While we hit 10k whirling blades? Lol...

Uhhh

FC is far more damage than that, yeah.

The kitten you hitting 10k whirling blades on? On downed? Rampage is telegraphed as all hell, can be kited/blinded etc.

FC will be used multiple times and hits like a truck, pretty reliably too.

Just the audacity to compare a channeled skill dealing 10k over 3 seconds to an instant burst of around 8k+ damage is beyond me

I’ve never seen fc hit 8k. Never.

Might stacks, Revenge Counter, Peak Performance and Berserker's Power and it will easily deal that much. It's the most damaging skill you will always land, especially so in WvW where you can just dip into an aoe circle on the floor to trigger it etc.

You're right though. It usually hits more around 5 to 6k.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/377466366799773717/445693668360192011/gw454.jpg

p.s gs3 does up to 15k ;)

Yeah if you crit and get all hits off

Same argument as Axe 5, though not nearly as bad.

You are pretty much mental if you compare gs3 to axe 5

I didn't. Thanks though.

When do you ever get to stand right on top of somebody next to a wall to get multiple hits off? It's the same setting in where you have to fulfill certain conditions to get a lot of damage off. And I said "not nearly as bad" because getting 3 fast hits off is WAY easier than getting 10 to 15 for similar damage. YES this will happen far more often than axe 5.

So shush. We don't even disagree.

[Master Ketsu.4569]

FC has an actual animation and significantly higher levels of counter play options.

It's a strong skill for sure, but it's not "Cheese". Half the time eating an FC means you made a mistake.

[Alatar.7364]

@"Master Ketsu.4569" said:FC has an actual animation and significantly higher levels of counter play options.

It's a strong skill for sure, but it's not "Cheese". Half the time eating an FC means you made a mistake.

Half the time eating an FC is because it was popped in to an AA or other sort of already happening attack which makes it inevitable even if you were to weapon stow randomly the second FC is about to pop. Since there is no one who uses FC when no attack is happening....The other half eating an FC is because of the visual FC bug that's present pretty much 100% of time.

[Chuck.2864]

I think FC needs to only proc on an actual attack. I'm so sick of it proccing off of random blinds and other bullshit, all it takes is sneezing on the war. Example - Rev staff 3. A block skill, that happens to send out a blinding projectile that deals no damage anyway. SB can just use FC when I'm blocking and get it off. I still beat most SB's and think it's a favorable matchup overall but it's just an example of FC being a bit too ez mode to proc.

Beyond that I think SB is actually perfect fine. Unkillable? Only if you know literally nothing about the spec or the class. It's got sustain out the ass but is no different to Druid, Weaver, Chrono etc in that regard, it's a duelist spec. It's damage is easy to avoid.

So I think the only change it needs is a slight tweak to FC, and for the love of god fix the FC bug already where the animation keeps playing. It defies belief that this bug has been around since PoF launch and no one seems to care at ArenaNet.

[storm.3120]

@Chuck.2864 said:I think FC needs to only proc on an actual attack. I'm so sick of it proccing off of random blinds and other kitten, all it takes is sneezing on the war. Example - Rev staff 3. A block skill, that happens to send out a blinding projectile that deals no damage anyway. SB can just use FC when I'm blocking and get it off. I still beat most SB's and think it's a favorable matchup overall but it's just an example of FC being a bit too ez mode to proc.

Beyond that I think SB is actually perfect fine. Unkillable? Only if you know literally nothing about the spec or the class. It's got sustain out the kitten but is no different to Druid, Weaver, Chrono etc in that regard, it's a duelist spec. It's damage is easy to avoid.

So I think the only change it needs is a slight tweak to FC, and for the love of god fix the FC bug already where the animation keeps playing. It defies belief that this bug has been around since PoF launch and no one seems to care at ArenaNet.

Another crybaby that know to little about things he complaint... FC proc only from damaging skill ... staff 3 does damage .... Feelsbad...

[Obindo.6802]

1v1 class with 0 matchups and weak in teamfights, definitely needs a nerf

[Arcaedus.7290]

@KryTiKaL.3125 said:@UfoCoffee.2084 Wanna know how to beat a Spellbreaker? Don't proc Full Counter. How easy is that? Very.

Wrong. Wanna know how quickly full counter's damage comes out after the counter is procced? Very. It comes out faster than human reflex time (around 0.25 seconds from my experience). In other words, if a very skilled spellbreaker activates full counter mere frames before your attack lands (maybe 1-6 frames), you will never see the full-counter animation, only the counter-strike and by that time you've already taken damage.

I have yet to duel or 1v1 a decent spellbreaker whos FC I was able to avoid more than 50% of the time. Bad ones I can avoid 100%, so this isn't a question of being skilled enough to avoid it.

[reikken.4961]

OP or not, the thing is I don't find it annoying or frustrating to play against

good spellbreakers seem like they're paying attention and reacting appropriately, while with condi it seems like they're just spamming and making it hard for me to see what's happening

[Huskyboy.1053]

@UfoCoffee.2084 said:This class is a raid boss, unkillable 1v1, Crazy survivability, decent mobility and good damage. If anything needs a nerf it's spellbreaker.

Btw if you're dying to condi thief, scourge, or condi mesmer just play spellbreaker and you'll never have to worry again.

It's not unkillable 1v1 at all. Blood scourge can kill it. Holo can kill it. Even core power ranger can kill it.

[Blocki.4931]

@Arcaedus.7290 said:

@KryTiKaL.3125 said:@UfoCoffee.2084 Wanna know how to beat a Spellbreaker? Don't proc Full Counter. How easy is that? Very.

Wrong. Wanna know how quickly full counter's damage comes out after the counter is procced? Very. It comes out faster than human reflex time (around 0.25 seconds from my experience). In other words, if a very skilled spellbreaker activates full counter mere frames before your attack lands (maybe 1-6 frames), you will never see the full-counter animation, only the counter-strike and by that time you've already taken damage.

I have yet to duel or 1v1 a decent spellbreaker whos FC I was able to avoid more than 50% of the time. Bad ones I can avoid 100%, so this isn't a question of being skilled enough to avoid it.

I've seen more and more people attack then immediately dodge roll in anticipation to dodge it. Gets me every single time. You can definitely react to a twitch fullcounter if you're aware that it's up

[KryTiKaL.3125]

@Arcaedus.7290 said:

@KryTiKaL.3125 said:@UfoCoffee.2084 Wanna know how to beat a Spellbreaker? Don't proc Full Counter. How easy is that? Very.

Wrong. Wanna know how quickly full counter's damage comes out after the counter is procced? Very. It comes out faster than human reflex time (around 0.25 seconds from my experience). In other words, if a very skilled spellbreaker activates full counter mere frames before your attack lands (maybe 1-6 frames), you will never see the full-counter animation, only the counter-strike and by that time you've already taken damage.

I have yet to duel or 1v1 a decent spellbreaker whos FC I was able to avoid more than 50% of the time. Bad ones I can avoid 100%, so this isn't a question of being skilled enough to avoid it.

That is very untrue. I dodge Full Counter's damage all the time if I accidentally proc it, which can happen in 1v1s if I get greedy or in outnumbered fights. Even against good Spellbreakers I can dodge it, its about baiting out the counter or purposefully proccing it and then dodging it to put it onto cooldown. Maybe your reaction time is slow, but others aren't and I've dodged it, others have dodged it and I can tell you that you could probably dodge it if you just paid attention. A Spellbreaker player being "decent" doesn't suddenly speed up the Counter animation, and when it comes to when you proc Full Counter I guarantee you know that you hit it which means your reflex should be to hit one of your dodges.

@Odik.4587 The only way you're going to get every hit off on a gs3 attack is if your target is against a wall/in a corner, CC'd and not moving or AFK in said corner or against a wall. Otherwise every hit is just flat out not going to connect. > @Poelala.2830 said:

@KryTiKaL.3125 said:@UfoCoffee.2084 Wanna know how to beat a Spellbreaker? Don't proc Full Counter. How easy is that? Very.

Full Counter being proc'd and landing its damage is what mainly gives Spellbreaker its crazy sustain because it refreshes their burst skills. Avoid getting hit with Full Counter and the Burst skills and the Warrior has no sustain, even if Endure Pain procs or they use it they won't be regaining health except from Healing Signet and thats not a very large heal tick. Warrior's sustain is tied to being able to land their burst skills, including Full Counter, deny them this and they have to hard disengage or you just kill them.

This does give them an advantage in outnumbered fights because people typically get complacent and just go all out on Spellbreakers and as such it procs their Full Counter constantly which gives the Warrior the advantage. Deny them their Adrenal Health stacks and its an easier fight.

This is very false. Each sentence is more false than the one preceding it. Do you really think full counter is more than 10% of a war’s damage? While rampage is a thing? While we hit 10k whirling blades? Lol...

As I said to Odik above, the only way you're going to hit a 10k Whirlwind Attack is if what I mentioned above is the criteria in a fight. Which if you're getting stuck in corners or on walls then I mean...that is quite literally your own fault. Otherwise I've really only seen it maybe do like 5k with crits maybe? Not to mention I never said Full Counter is more than 10% of a war's damage, I said that its what mainly gives Spellbreaker its crazy sustain which means its survivability or its healing. Yes it can hit hard, but what makes it so good for sustaining the Spellbreaker is that it refreshes your burst skills. So you can use a burst skill (you need to actually hit with it mind you to proc Adrenal Health), then use Full Counter (if it hits) then use your burst skill again (if it hits) and thats the 3 Adrenal Health stacks. This gives them the ability to use periods of time with Shield Stance or Endure Pain to regain health. Mind you all of these things are pretty well telegraphed, Full Counter puts a glowing loud ball around them and burst skills like Eviscerate and Breaching Strike have well telegraphed leaps, even from a point blank range. Even Arcing Slice from Greatsword is well telegraphed and avoidable.

[Arioch.4810]

Seeing all poster's opinions here is a good read, a lot of well presented arguments.While Spellbreaker's sustain does seem to be a bit too high in a vacuum, for me personally it's acceptable in PvP/WvW thanks to the kit warrior brings to the table: Usually played with GS/x+Shield, range from which engagements starts means you can get some hits on warrior before he can start trading punches with you. In that setting, giving him tools to close the gap and sustain for some time seems reasonable.Most importantly for me, the way SB wins in 1v1 duels seems fair to me, so it does not feel opressive playing against them.

[Chorazin.4107]

As a defense skill it's too much, I hate that it procs off random clone attacks or AoE and is unblockable. You could have stowed ur weapon, still going to go off in a group fight, hell u can just run over a pulsing AoE that was put down b4 u activated the FC.

It's a prime example of power creep in this game, 12sec CD, negates an attack outright, grants stability, .5 sec evade frames, .5sec daze on 5 targets, removes a boon, unblockable, 300rng, hits for decent dmg. And that is without taking revenge counter that it seems 90%(probably more) of SB's take, please lol.

It's stale from a build diversity point of view, does anyone ever use Enchantment collapse or magebane tether? And stale from seeing the same shit over and over again when you see a warrior. Although I did see a gunflame berserker the other day, that was awesome.

Having said that, fighting SB is much more enjoyable than condi 'I cant be targeted or stunned' Mirage. And Mirage is far more broken.

[brannigan.9831]

Everything is circular. Once they nerf the builds people are crying about the most Spell Breaker will get complained about again. Imo they do deserve some more nerf its just not as urgently needed as some other classes. They still have to much sustain and still hit too hard for the sustain they have.

[KryTiKaL.3125]

@"brannigan.9831" As I said before, Warrior sustain is directly tied to them actually hitting with their burst skills. Don't get hit by them, they get nothing. I actually rather frequently fight other Warriors and Spellbreakers and beat them without them ever having touched my health or landing a burst skill on me. Other classes have done the same to me. No class has been exempt from that, and this is because these are good players not, for lack of a better term, poor players.

What people perceive as the issue with Spellbreakers, and Warriors in general, is typically an issue in their own inability to fight the class. Granted this doesn't reign true always with the state of balance and how Mirage can just peace out of a fight entirely or dodge roll stunbreak however many few CCs one might have available, and yes admittedly Spellbreaker is much easier to do well with at the lower end of the PvP spectrum due to most players constantly hitting Full Counter rather than avoiding the proc. Sometimes there is so much attack avoidance going on in fights, when we're talking about people who play at a Plat 2 or above level, that they can last for a rather long time if not just feel like a stalemate.

And to avoid someone likely pulling some sort of "he just a Warrior main so of course he doesn't want nerfs, well yeah of course I don't but as a balancing factor here...

Mesmer. At its core I don't honestly have an issue with Mesmer, even Mirage, despite my issues I've taken with it on these forums in other threads. There are very specific things and specific gameplay elements to this game as a whole that make Mesmer an issue and they don't necessarily stem from the class itself. Granted Mesmer has been pretty severely overtuned with the update made to their Clones and such, Mirage as well, but at its core it isn't the issue. The core of the issue is how strong conditions were made and, in the realm of sPvP, that strength of those conditions becomes a problem just with how that game mode works.

In an ideal scenario when fighting a mesmer, you have the ability to either kill their clones or are able to disengage from them to avoid their burst. This requires both you and the Mesmer to consider your positioning as well as their own positioning, which can make fights span across a larger field and utilize terrain or structures to break line of sight or force Clones to chase you, thus baiting out the GW2 AI and ultimately keep them away from you. This is not how it works in sPvP. In sPvP you are forced onto a single objective point, if you are not contesting or defending this point then you are losing. This means you need to be standing on top of the point which completely negates the consideration of positioning and the Mesmer has free reign over what they want to do with their Clones, which is typically shattering them and loading you up with conditions. Are you able to disengage? Yes, but that removes you from the point and the possibility of you either pressuring an enemy player or supporting a teammate. This gives AoE like that a distinct advantage and makes sPvP a less than enjoyable experience especially with how tiny, how microscopic these capture points are when compared against the amount of area a Mesmer shattering a number of their clones can cover. The same reigns true with Scourge.

So really these issues can't really be boiled down to an issue with the classes themselves and more an issue with how sPvP has worked and how it no longer works in the current state of mechanics that Anet has added to classes since the long ago rework they did to Conditions. It was less a problem then, it has become more of a problem now because honestly...what has changed about sPvP and how the gamemode works? Not much, yet they have added a large number of new mechanics to classes that make the gamemode itself a frustrating experience and it is easily abused.

[otto.5684]

@KryTiKaL.3125 said:@"brannigan.9831" As I said before, Warrior sustain is directly tied to them actually hitting with their burst skills. Don't get hit by them, they get nothing. I actually rather frequently fight other Warriors and Spellbreakers and beat them without them ever having touched my health or landing a burst skill on me. Other classes have done the same to me. No class has been exempt from that, and this is because these are good players not, for lack of a better term, poor players.

What people perceive as the issue with Spellbreakers, and Warriors in general, is typically an issue in their own inability to fight the class. Granted this doesn't reign true always with the state of balance and how Mirage can just peace out of a fight entirely or dodge roll stunbreak however many few CCs one might have available, and yes admittedly Spellbreaker is much easier to do well with at the lower end of the PvP spectrum due to most players constantly hitting Full Counter rather than avoiding the proc. Sometimes there is so much attack avoidance going on in fights, when we're talking about people who play at a Plat 2 or above level, that they can last for a rather long time if not just feel like a stalemate.

And to avoid someone likely pulling some sort of "he just a Warrior main so of course he doesn't want nerfs, well yeah of course I don't but as a balancing factor here...

Mesmer. At its core I don't honestly have an issue with Mesmer, even Mirage, despite my issues I've taken with it on these forums in other threads. There are very specific things and specific gameplay elements to this game as a whole that make Mesmer an issue and they don't necessarily stem from the class itself. Granted Mesmer has been pretty severely overtuned with the update made to their Clones and such, Mirage as well, but at its core it isn't the issue. The core of the issue is how strong conditions were made and, in the realm of sPvP, that strength of those conditions becomes a problem just with how that game mode works.

In an ideal scenario when fighting a mesmer, you have the ability to either kill their clones or are able to disengage from them to avoid their burst. This requires both you and the Mesmer to consider your positioning as well as their own positioning, which can make fights span across a larger field and utilize terrain or structures to break line of sight or force Clones to chase you, thus baiting out the GW2 AI and ultimately keep them away from you. This is not how it works in sPvP. In sPvP you are forced onto a single objective point, if you are not contesting or defending this point then you are losing. This means you need to be standing on top of the point which completely negates the consideration of positioning and the Mesmer has free reign over what they want to do with their Clones, which is typically shattering them and loading you up with conditions. Are you able to disengage? Yes, but that removes you from the point and the possibility of you either pressuring an enemy player or supporting a teammate. This gives AoE like that a distinct advantage and makes sPvP a less than enjoyable experience especially with how tiny, how microscopic these capture points are when compared against the amount of area a Mesmer shattering a number of their clones can cover. The same reigns true with Scourge.

So really these issues can't really be boiled down to an issue with the classes themselves and more an issue with how sPvP has worked and how it no longer works in the current state of mechanics that Anet has added to classes since the long ago rework they did to Conditions. It was less a problem then, it has become more of a problem now because honestly...what has changed about sPvP and how the gamemode works? Not much, yet they have added a large number of new mechanics to classes that make the gamemode itself a frustrating experience and it is easily abused.

Almost everything mentioned here is wrong. Who gives a flying fuck about in F tier warrior who has no fucking idea what they are doing. If you cannot hit with at least half of your Burst skills and FC (more like 75%) you should not step foot in sPvP.

There is no reason to labor over FC and warrior sustain. There is a good reason that it was nerfed before, and probably will again next patch. When SB perform on the same level of other bruiser builds, like DH or scrapper let me know. Enjoy it now, cuz the end is near. The hammer will definitely hit SB and mirage next patch.

[ilmi.5369]

@Blocki.4931 said:

@Arcaedus.7290 said:

@KryTiKaL.3125 said:@UfoCoffee.2084 Wanna know how to beat a Spellbreaker? Don't proc Full Counter. How easy is that? Very.

Wrong. Wanna know how quickly full counter's damage comes out after the counter is procced? Very. It comes out faster than human reflex time (around 0.25 seconds from my experience). In other words, if a very skilled spellbreaker activates full counter mere frames before your attack lands (maybe 1-6 frames), you will never see the full-counter animation, only the counter-strike and by that time you've already taken damage.

I have yet to duel or 1v1 a decent spellbreaker whos FC I was able to avoid more than 50% of the time. Bad ones I can avoid 100%, so this isn't a question of being skilled enough to avoid it.

I've seen more and more people attack then immediately dodge roll in anticipation to dodge it. Gets me every single time. You can definitely react to a twitch fullcounter if you're aware that it's up

Agreed. I play warrior (among some other professions) and so I know exactly how easy it is to be countered. So, when fighting other warriors I proc the full counter with AA and then dodge and it works just fine. Sure it also proccs adrenal health and resistance and let them f1 burst right after but it also clears the way to land a hard hitter myself after the proc.

[Math.5123]

@ilmi.5369 said:

@Blocki.4931 said:

@Arcaedus.7290 said:

@KryTiKaL.3125 said:@UfoCoffee.2084 Wanna know how to beat a Spellbreaker? Don't proc Full Counter. How easy is that? Very.

Wrong. Wanna know how quickly full counter's damage comes out after the counter is procced? Very. It comes out faster than human reflex time (around 0.25 seconds from my experience). In other words, if a very skilled spellbreaker activates full counter mere frames before your attack lands (maybe 1-6 frames), you will never see the full-counter animation, only the counter-strike and by that time you've already taken damage.

I have yet to duel or 1v1 a decent spellbreaker whos FC I was able to avoid more than 50% of the time. Bad ones I can avoid 100%, so this isn't a question of being skilled enough to avoid it.

I've seen more and more people attack then immediately dodge roll in anticipation to dodge it. Gets me every single time. You can definitely react to a twitch fullcounter if you're aware that it's up

Agreed. I play warrior (among some other professions) and so I know exactly how easy it is to be countered. So, when fighting other warriors I proc the full counter with AA and then dodge and it works just fine. Sure it also proccs adrenal health and resistance and let them f1 burst right after but it also clears the way to land a hard hitter myself after the proc.

If I dodge every full counter, that's all I could dodge. Not all classes has access to vigor and evade frames on weapon or utility skills.Considering gs3 needs to be dodged, rush definitely needs to be dodged and so does the burst skills, you're starting to see the problem. Guard could do by with blocks before spellbreaker, but now most of it is unblockable / multi-hit strikes, which means aegis doesn't really do anything.

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

the only issue I have with full counter is that even if you do muck up and proc full counter, even dodging the dmg still counts as a used burst skill and that it procs adren healing.