Dont touch anything before mirage is solved

[Arlette.9684]

@EpicTurtle.8571 said:

@Hylo.1968 said:

@EpicTurtle.8571 said:

@Hylo.1968 said:

@EpicTurtle.8571 said:

@Hylo.1968 said:

@EpicTurtle.8571 said:

@Hylo.1968 said:

@"bravan.3876" said:You cannot dodge during cc will never happen because it is one of the mirage main features and as explained several times it is not whereop and counterable. When mesmer needs his dodges to secure well telegraphed and long cast skills then he has less dodges to avoid your dmg after.

The only mirages are op are hybrid and condi and both are not op due to mirage cloak. Nerfs needed are longer axe cds in particular for axe 3, icd on ineptitude to avoid condi shatterspam, change to the last bonus of adventure rune,torch firestacks nerf. Only one phantasm spawn from staff 3. Then just check if more nerfs are needed or not but i think than the broken builds are balanced.

seems like you know what we're talking about.can you please make a thread where you can give your feedback about every single mirage trait? i was aiming to do it but i'm too lazy.let's start with this:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Nomad%27s_Endurance

needs to go or reworked with an ICD. Remove the condi dmg bonus ( why only condi?)

Mesmer has no other bonus to condition damage in any traitline outside of Chaos. This one can stay. Another Staff 3 nerf seems unnecessary since the first one was just as unnecessary.

it's a Minor Master btw, not a player choice

Why is that even relevant?

come on dude, they're keep complaining about the mirage's constant evade frame. Just give them what they want (not everything). Starting with this , the vigor uptime, would reduce it by a bit ?Second: its condi pressure. No words about that

No. It's not even consistently up if you have any support class worth their salt because it only procs from self sourced Vigor. Concessions are to be made for truly overtuned things, like EM. Not something that Mesmer literally has in only one other trait line that fights a CD reduction trait and requires player input to be effective.

EM isn't that powerful compared to IH , yet none realized it.then comes another suggestion from me : rework the condition applied by clones ( even disable effects) while in MC.

Alright you don't know what you're talking about then. A few extra conditions at less output than the player is far less powerful than the ability to almost never be locked down and punished.

Without going into details, there are ways to achieve the same effect without EM, it does require a significant change in play style tho.

[EpicTurtle.8571]

@Arlette.9684 said:

@EpicTurtle.8571 said:

@Hylo.1968 said:

@EpicTurtle.8571 said:

@Hylo.1968 said:

@EpicTurtle.8571 said:

@Hylo.1968 said:

@EpicTurtle.8571 said:

@Hylo.1968 said:

@"bravan.3876" said:You cannot dodge during cc will never happen because it is one of the mirage main features and as explained several times it is not whereop and counterable. When mesmer needs his dodges to secure well telegraphed and long cast skills then he has less dodges to avoid your dmg after.

The only mirages are op are hybrid and condi and both are not op due to mirage cloak. Nerfs needed are longer axe cds in particular for axe 3, icd on ineptitude to avoid condi shatterspam, change to the last bonus of adventure rune,torch firestacks nerf. Only one phantasm spawn from staff 3. Then just check if more nerfs are needed or not but i think than the broken builds are balanced.

seems like you know what we're talking about.can you please make a thread where you can give your feedback about every single mirage trait? i was aiming to do it but i'm too lazy.let's start with this:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Nomad%27s_Endurance

needs to go or reworked with an ICD. Remove the condi dmg bonus ( why only condi?)

Mesmer has no other bonus to condition damage in any traitline outside of Chaos. This one can stay. Another Staff 3 nerf seems unnecessary since the first one was just as unnecessary.

it's a Minor Master btw, not a player choice

Why is that even relevant?

come on dude, they're keep complaining about the mirage's constant evade frame. Just give them what they want (not everything). Starting with this , the vigor uptime, would reduce it by a bit ?Second: its condi pressure. No words about that

No. It's not even consistently up if you have any support class worth their salt because it only procs from self sourced Vigor. Concessions are to be made for truly overtuned things, like EM. Not something that Mesmer literally has in only one other trait line that fights a CD reduction trait and requires player input to be effective.

EM isn't that powerful compared to IH , yet none realized it.then comes another suggestion from me : rework the condition applied by clones ( even disable effects) while in MC.

Alright you don't know what you're talking about then. A few extra conditions at less output than the player is far less powerful than the ability to almost never be locked down and punished.

Without going into details, there are ways to achieve the same effect without EM, it does require a significant change in play style tho.

I don't doubt it's possible but if it requires playstyle changes then it's probably fair.

[urdriel.8496]

@Solori.6025 said:

@"ugrakarma.9416" said:i dont expect much, to be true i expect the worst: they will probably nerf the already overnerfed core classes. core necro, core guard, core warr and label it as "balance".

Core necro sure..Core guardian? Maybe.But Core war?

Core Warrior trait lines are god tier , tbh normally any OPMeta class have a really nice synergy in their traitlines.

[Hylo.1968]

@EpicTurtle.8571 said:

@Hylo.1968 said:

@EpicTurtle.8571 said:

@Hylo.1968 said:

@EpicTurtle.8571 said:

@Hylo.1968 said:

@EpicTurtle.8571 said:

@Hylo.1968 said:

@"bravan.3876" said:You cannot dodge during cc will never happen because it is one of the mirage main features and as explained several times it is not whereop and counterable. When mesmer needs his dodges to secure well telegraphed and long cast skills then he has less dodges to avoid your dmg after.

The only mirages are op are hybrid and condi and both are not op due to mirage cloak. Nerfs needed are longer axe cds in particular for axe 3, icd on ineptitude to avoid condi shatterspam, change to the last bonus of adventure rune,torch firestacks nerf. Only one phantasm spawn from staff 3. Then just check if more nerfs are needed or not but i think than the broken builds are balanced.

seems like you know what we're talking about.can you please make a thread where you can give your feedback about every single mirage trait? i was aiming to do it but i'm too lazy.let's start with this:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Nomad%27s_Endurance

needs to go or reworked with an ICD. Remove the condi dmg bonus ( why only condi?)

Mesmer has no other bonus to condition damage in any traitline outside of Chaos. This one can stay. Another Staff 3 nerf seems unnecessary since the first one was just as unnecessary.

it's a Minor Master btw, not a player choice

Why is that even relevant?

come on dude, they're keep complaining about the mirage's constant evade frame. Just give them what they want (not everything). Starting with this , the vigor uptime, would reduce it by a bit ?Second: its condi pressure. No words about that

No. It's not even consistently up if you have any support class worth their salt because it only procs from self sourced Vigor. Concessions are to be made for truly overtuned things, like EM. Not something that Mesmer literally has in only one other trait line that fights a CD reduction trait and requires player input to be effective.

EM isn't that powerful compared to IH , yet none realized it.then comes another suggestion from me : rework the condition applied by clones ( even disable effects) while in MC.

Alright you don't know what you're talking about then. A few extra conditions at less output than the player is far less powerful than the ability to almost never be locked down and punished.

Doubt it xDi could say that you Obviously didn't move from the meta and tried out different setups

[Beczka.1746]

It's funny to look at the hate of the people and complaining about the mesmer at the same time all the top tier teams do not use the mesmer. No one is interested in the warrior / guardian / thief / holosmith / necro is just yolo with thousand of passive shit. I have the impression that the people who sits and complains on the forum are people from gold or even worse. Bring some real pvp players on forum or it will be a cabaret to watch

[FtoPScrub.5476]

@Beczka.1746 said:It's funny to look at the hate of the people and complaining about the mesmer at the same time all the top tier teams do not use the mesmer.

WTF are you talking about? Mesmers must live in fairy tale land. No top teams use mesmer? That's just factually incorrect.

[ProtoGunner.4953]

Or: just play Mirage until Mirage is fixed. Problem temporarily solved.

[Burnfall.9573]

“ For a seed to achieve its greatest expression, it must come completely undone. The shell cracks, its insides come out and everything changes . To someone who doesn't understand growth, it would look like complete destruction.”

Cynthia Occelli

Mesmer profession must be completely undone for the health of the game and its players

[Shao.7236]

Torment and Confusion needs to stop doing damage overtime if you stay still and do nothing. Forcing Mesmers to use CC's with some Power, not just invest everything in Condition Damage. If we can punish this relentless spam like this by making their lack of power punishing, it would be fair. That would make them more viable in team fights where people are forced to move and use skills to avoid power.

For that will speak of the Scourge Torment, they have plenty Fear to make you move around along the other conditions.

[Gwaihir.1745]

Here are todays patch notes for quick reference:

"Mesmers have been doing a little too well in recent updates, with increased damage across the board due to the confusion changes, as well as unparalleled support from boon share on top of multiple evasion windows. While we think these are good thematic roles for mesmers to have, their overall effectiveness is too high, so we are taking steps to rein in some of that extra power.

Blurred Frenzy: The animation time of this skill has been reduced from approximately 1.75 seconds to 1 second while retaining all previous attacks. Damage of this skill has been reduced by 17% in PvP and WvW, with PvE being reduced by 36%. The baseline recharge time has been reduced from 12 seconds to 10 seconds.The Prestige: Burning duration has been modified from 3 stacks for 3 seconds to 1 stack for 9 seconds.Phantasmal Mage: The burning duration of the initial attack has been modified from 2 stacks for 3 seconds to 1 stack for 6 seconds. The attack's burning has been modified from 3 stacks for 3 seconds to 1 stack for 9 seconds.Maim the Disillusioned: Torment duration has been split between game modes and will now deliver 4 seconds of torment in PvP and WvW while continuing to deal 6 seconds of torment in PvE.Imaginary Axes: Inflicted torment duration has been reduced from 5 seconds to 4 seconds.Axes of Symmetry: Inflicted confusion duration has been reduced from 8 seconds to 6 seconds in PvE.Jaunt: The ammunition recharge time of this skill has now been split and will use a 30-second cooldown in PvP and WvW while maintaining a 20-second cooldown in PvE.Signet of Inspiration: Reduced the duration of aegis shared by this skill from 10 seconds to 2 seconds.Illusionary Inspiration: Reduced the duration of aegis shared by this trait from 10 seconds to 2 seconds.Inspiring Distortion: Reduced the duration of aegis shared by this trait from 5 seconds to 2 seconds.Nomad's Endurance: Fixed a bug that could cause the bonus condition damage from this trait to be applied to characters other than the mesmer.Chaotic Persistence: The boon and condition duration bonus has been decreased from 3% to 2% per boon on the mesmer."

Also worth noting "Invulnerability effects will now stop conditions from applying damage." apply a decent bit to mirage as distortion is included among other skills like guardians rf.

[OutOfOrder.3719]

Thank the Baby Jesus that Condition Mirage was nerfed.

[Turk.5460]

@OutOfOrder.3719 said:Thank the Baby Jesus that Condition Mirage was nerfed.

It really wasn't though... The problem wasn't with durations of a few select skills, it was with the sheer amount of conditions they could reapply frequently and endlessly.

[OutOfOrder.3719]

People would Completely lose their minds and rage if Scourge abilities Dhumfire and Sand Savant were both nerfed in the same patch.

I am confident that Anet is now aware of the Mirage being over powered. So nerfing axe and torch combo is a good start and I'm sure more changes will follow.

Elusive mind now grants exhaustion when breaking stun. Now Jaunt has a 30 second cooldown and Rune of Adventurer grants 25% endurance gain instead of 50 %.

These are all good starts. Honestly, Anet needs to stop nerfing Scourge now. Otherwise Necro will be completely useless or at least not competitive anymore.

[jportell.2197]

@OutOfOrder.3719 said:People would Completely lose their minds and rage if Scourge abilities Dhumfire and Sand Savant were both nerfed in the same patch.

I am confident that Anet is now aware of the Mirage being over powered. So nerfing axe and torch combo is a good start and I'm sure more changes will follow.

Elusive mind now grants exhaustion when breaking stun. Now Jaunt has a 30 second cooldown and Rune of Adventurer grants 25% endurance gain instead of 50 %.

These are all good starts. Honestly, Anet needs to stop nerfing Scourge now. Otherwise Necro will be completely useless or at least not competitive anymore.

That's why every single freaking match I'm in has two scourges.