Where are the skilled WvW fights?

[shiri.4257]

@Chasind.3128 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:not sure if im reading this thread right but OP wants to fight other fight guilds but apparently theyre all stacked on his server already?

If thats the case the solution is simple, transfer to the opposing worlds.

Which we've done and it always ends up the same v,v

my bf has left gw2 bc wvw to him is ded

you should dump him. he's a fairweather. Logan Thackeray is a better man.

[Diku.2546]

Flawed 3 Way & Tiers

---

Did you notice there's a recurring theme surrounding the flawed Fixed 3 way match-up mechanic?

The problem is the 800-pound Gorilla in the room effect.

The Fixed Tiers further magnify the problem.

Why not remove the Fixed 3 Way & Tiers?

The solution is simple:

Re-purpose

for WvW with Weekly limits on Which Server & How Many Servers you can fight on.

We get to have player-driven match-ups & ANet gets to controls the pace by adjusting the weekly limits.

Imagine...being able to pick your own weekly match-ups while preventing the 800-pound Gorilla in the room from ever being a problem & Guilds can easily choose to find like minded Guilds to fight against.

Server stacking....no problem. Let them...players just have to deal with a weekly map queue & wait for a seat to open up. It should be like trying to dine at a very popular restaurant. You have to just wait to serve & be served.

Don't forget...If you're on the staff of the most popular restaurant...expect a never ending supply of customers wanting you to serve them too.

Good luck defending. :)

I did mention Weekly Match-Up reset right...instead of....correct me if I'm wrong...every 3 months & you MIGHT (chances are low) get a new server match-up instead of repeating the previous one.

Yours truly,Diku

p.s.See some of my past posts for details...please vote Helpful or Thumbs up if you agree.

[Shagaliscious.6281]

This is exactly what happens when you overstack servers. Not sure if OP was on SoR before the influx of guilds, but with a lot of guilds mass transferring to just a few servers, whether to get ready for alliances or not, is going to mean that the fight guilds are on just a couple servers, and when you aren't against one of them, it's going to be a week lacking in fights.

[Strider Pj.2193]

@Shagaliscious.6281 said:, whether to get ready for alliances or not, is going to mean that the fight guilds are on just a couple servers, and when you aren't against one of them, it's going to be a week lacking in fights.

Which underscores what really will need to be done to make the mode better: for a 'world' and, to a smaller degree and 'alliance' work is a balance of PPT and Fights guilds in each one.

Ie if too many people are only fights oriented on one server, they will likely have boring matchups or forced to, as one poster in another thread said, bully the other server out of the matchup in the hopes of getting a better matchup the following week.

And the PPT guilds will need guilds to partner with that are willing to come and hit other Zergs hard to defeat them.

Both need to come from a respect for what each one does. That means being able to potentially step aside when the other is needed. That involves egos. (Insert meme here)

Because if alliances are only formed with one group only and those guilds end up only 2 or 3 alliances then people are going to be quite frustrated as the level of toxicity each way will be.,., further damaging to the mode.

There has been a long thread that has upset a lot of people but, despite maybe it's frank delivery, pointed out a huge problem with how server members can be towards each other., and it isn't healthy for the game in the long run.

[Aetatis.5418]

when will people understand, that wvw is more than "only ppt" and "only fights"...? its both, everybody deal with it and behave accordingly.

fair weather friends of all kinds (be it stacking fighting guilds... or flooding a "good" server with as many people as possible) did create this mess we all cry about!

[SkyShroud.2865]

@DeceiverX.8361 said:

@SkyShroud.2865 said:

@Rysdude.3824 said:

@SkyShroud.2865 said:I always envious of servers that have many people who ranked mithril or even diamond. Then, when I look at my server, I feel sad, finding players of those ranks are like as rare as a precious gem. It seems like "good" players tend to stack server and naturally those server become full of "good" players. Then, often whine about where the good fights, I really can't comprehend this mentality.

It makes me wonder if I am just too stupid to understand or others too pretentious about it.

Just one thing..having a high rank in WvW doesn't mean they are good by any means.

Still more experience than any bronze and silver (and even gold), afterall, reaching diamond and mithril isn't a one day two day thing.

Most of the people with Plat+ WvW rank were just EoTM-farmers, which is basically just bragging about PvE ktraining.

EOTM was how many years ago?

For reference, hardcore wvwers can reach platinum rank within 6 months.The game is out for more than 5 years, even casual wvw players would be at least platinum now while the not so casual would be mithril and the hardcore will be diamond.Likewise, those who stack on servers will get their rank even faster since they will just farm those less skilled servers for wxp.

@Israel.7056 said:

@SkyShroud.2865 said:I always envious of servers that have many people who ranked mithril or even diamond. Then, when I look at my server, I feel sad, finding players of those ranks are like as rare as a precious gem. It seems like "good" players tend to stack server and naturally those server become full of "good" players. Then, often whine about where the good fights, I really can't comprehend this mentality.

It makes me wonder if I am just too stupid to understand or others too pretentious about it.

You're not wrong but no one wants to try to carry trash pugs though.

As if these people are not trash when they first started. I can understand if they want to feed their pathetic ego but being "pretentious" is really disgusting.

[cobbah.3102]

Rank is not about being good , a lot of high ranks are involved in zerg play ,run around in a ppt ktrain for a bit your ranks go up and consider that a lot of these players have been doing this for nigh on 6 years , of course there are good players and then there are not so good players (me) but it is all about just having fun , it is after all a game. Cannot say I remember a lot of skill being involved per se but pre hot I was at least able to die a heck of a lot less , now days it is just a complete mess of rings and so forth and the "fight"guilds are few and far between , everybody ppts to some extent or you wouldnt have the ranks there are.

[MedievalThings.5417]

Zerg fights are there own thing, lately it had been whoever stacked more scourges and firebrands, which had nothing to do with skill really.Even the small man roaming groups I see, they all just take advantage of a single mechanic so that 98% of builds out there won't stand a chance in the fight, it's not skill people just don't pay attention. And, it's unlikely that many people will be fielding the counter to their one-trick pony so they kill lots of people, usually can kill twice their number quickly and easily, but those aren't skilled fights despite what those fielding it think.

Even fight guilds who claim they "just want fights" only want to play with other "skilled" players who only want fights too. Their solution, all bandwagon to one server, stack numbers and coverage and now they have nothing to fight. Therein lies the problem, because they weren't really "looking for fights" but "looking to always win every fight" and stacking accomplishes that. Then, they wonder why no one wants to come out of a tower to "face" them. Because feeding the enemy bags and points isn't going to make anyone (or even the game mode) better.

Server transfers killed this game mode, imo.

[Pepper.3901]

@Chasind.3128 said:Disclaimer: I'm not bragging, I'm complaining; hence what forums are for.

My WvW guild group has moved through servers, dropped in tier(s) just to find fights. We don't care for PPT, it's not fun and the only time we attack towers is to lure out groups.So far, we're stuck in tier 1, which all other BL's do is hide behind siege or get an entire map q to blob because anything organized would require brain function.Groups dodge our time zone now because they don't want to fight us. Or if they do, they just pirate ship.

WvW feels like an arid desert as far as skilled fights go.

Do you like GvG/Organized fights? Or only PPt? In what tier/ server have you found/ seen the most fights? As in descent fights where people won't bottleneck behind siege.

I'm not talking about pugs. They're only good for absorbing damage anyway. I'm talking about Wvw Guild groups.

Anet isn't listening.

WvW needs to be changed in one way - our health pool.

Because 50+ people can hit a SINGLE person in combat, I know our HEALTH POOL IS WRONG FOR SKILLED FIGHTING.

Our health pools are great for pve, fractals, dungeons and raids, it challenges us when we have a enemy with others around us or alone when the event scales.

But WvW doesn't scale.

Ever.

So why isn't our health pool at least ten times what it was in pve?

Not ten? Ok, then five times, but not the paltry pool of health when we have no way to mitigate massive damage from a wall of enemies who will chase down a single player or a small group with 25-50+?

Our health pool, our vitality, must go up or WvW is toast no matter what is done for alliances, which I believe will not only fail, but will be a faceless disaster without loyalty or meaningful rewards.

At least with more health our efforts with our groups will be skill based, not purely mob based.

[displayname.8315]

@atheria.2837 said:

WvW needs to be changed in one way - our health pool.

So why isn't our health pool at least ten times what it was in pve?

At least with more health our efforts with our groups will be skill based, not purely mob based.

Health is ok for your normal spvp numbers and then theres all the defensives too.

If anyone here didn't know damage is mitigated in massive battles by pushing with the commander and staying close while fighting. Most attacks have a cap of 5 targets so your chances of being hit by AoE go down the more people push with the tag.

Also of course the water fields and various heals are targeted at the commander too.

As for single player and small group vs. larger group thats a different story and you probably shouldnt be aiming for that sort of thing unless your ALL really good and have special gimmicks practiced before hand.

[Etheri.5406]

@"SkyShroud.2865" said:As if these people are not trash when they first started. I can understand if they want to feed their pathetic ego but being "pretentious" is really disgusting.

Let's assume they're all new players, who know they're pretty bad because they don't know much. Surely they'd be willing to listen to experienced players willing to teach them. Oh wait no, they're "casual" with hundreds to thousands of hours and the only "casual" aspect about them is their special snowflakism and awful gameplay. I'm kicking ultimate dominators playing druid with 3 signets and momentum stacking sigil. Why would you run unblockable signet on a full minstrel + momentum sigil build? Wait he's just new at the game, i'm supposed to help him!

The issue is NOT new players not willing to join. In fact, we regularly run with new players who quickly get far better than pugs with thousands of ranks and hours ingame. The issue is special snowflakism. Bad players refusing to learn because they're convinced they're amazing when in reality they're bad, have always been bad and because of their attitude will continue to be bad.

And no, nobody has the obligation to carry them while they REFUSE to improve or even listen. You'd on HoD, surely you should know exactly the type of player i'm talking about.

As I said before, you can keep crying about the new players but the ones we dislike aren't new players. It's hardcore casuals insisting everyone has to play like them and for them. If new players are also kicked, that's just collateral damage ;)

No suprise of course - PvE is designed to be playable at entry level and not require any improvement ever. The moment any kind of performance is expected or required, no matter how low or easy, half the players in the game lose their minds. Because they are just... well... Allergic to performance? ;)

[Riba.3271]

I think there is still fights, just most people haven't managed to grasped after PoF that playing as a party rather than solo is the way to go.

Just seems firebrand and dwarf rev are not very popular in casual pug servers as they made guardian pretty boring and rev was kind of never popular.

The 2 classes that are necessary for proper sustain in party are not played properly. ^_^ No wonder fights end in 15 seconds.

Doesnt help that most servers run 1 firebrand in party, meaning if he is bad or has a random build, whole party is practically dead.

I do think that casual players always have been terrible, just now those players are kind of on different server than the ex-guild players. It is still the same, 5 good players will carry the 50-man fight. It held true before HoT, during HoT and now. Just now some servers don't even have those 5 good players.

I am on Far Shiverpeaks atm and there's queues on primetime every single night, yet the squad is never over 35 players regardless of the commander. Odds against 60 players isn't very high. It is fine in some matchups, 35 can win most of fights against normal servers with proper commander, just not against mapblobs of the "elite" servers.

Whenever I talk to the community leaders of "elite" servers like Vabbi and Whiteside ridge, their argument for staying on one server is because they want their whole 50 man community on same map without queues while being able to borderhop. Wow, you put 50 ex-raiding guild players on same map and expect enemy to gather 50 players of same kind, hehe, wonder if it happening? Also they don't realise that 2+ kdr doesn't equal good fights, I know the lads over there got used to it and are delusional thinking they're good fights but it is.... just farming...... Basically the good players over there that were at level high enough to realise that already quit the game, its just mediocre dudes left over there. But lot of mediocre beats lot of casual.

[Odinens.5920]

@"Strider Pj.2193" said:

How are these guilds keeping you out of T1? When the guild leaders in the weekly server meeting decide to tank, or play to stay out of T1.

They are preventing others from organizing and capping objectives? Good luck to the few guilds that don't go along with the "server decision," and being able to accomplish anything when the majority of guilds won't help the few that don't give a crap about friggin politics.

And how in the hell is that keeping people from playing their favorite game mode? How? When you straight up hear/see guild leaders say don't play, or don't PPT, or we won't be on.

You can't play except if it's T1? I play to play, and a lot of people just want to play. Who cares what tier it is?

Really?

That is the complete definition of entitlement and is the exact toxicity people are talking about. I'M entitled? Sorry my dude, but I grew up with actually competing in games, and trying to win EVERYthing. I don't "throw" games of ANY kind, and don't tank crap to stay out of anything. The toxicity comes from the people that try to rule over everyone elses gameplay. Wahhhhh, we don't like it in T1 so everyone stop playing so we don't have to be there.

[Strider Pj.2193]

@Odinens.5920 said:

@"Strider Pj.2193" said:

How are these guilds keeping you out of T1?

When the guild leaders in the weekly server meeting decide to tank, or play to stay out of T1.

They are preventing others from organizing and capping objectives?

Good luck to the few guilds that don't go along with the "server decision," and being able to accomplish anything when the majority of guilds won't help the few that don't give a crap about friggin politics.

And how in the hell is that keeping people from playing their favorite game mode?

How? When you straight up hear/see guild leaders say don't play, or don't PPT, or we won't be on.

You can't play except if it's T1?

I play to play, and a lot of people just want to play. Who cares what tier it is?

Really?

That is the complete definition of entitlement and is the exact toxicity people are talking about.

I'M entitled? Sorry my dude, but I grew up with actually competing in games, and trying to win EVERYthing. I don't "throw" games of ANY kind, and don't tank crap to stay out of anything. The toxicity comes from the people that try to rule over everyone elses gameplay. Wahhhhh, we don't like it in T1 so everyone stop playing so we don't have to be there.

I won't type within your quote:

How do you think these guilds that are 'keeping you from playing' got their start?

Evidently there are players that are not in those guilds that want to play. Trial and error 'my dude'

And if you are in one of those guilds that the guild leader is telling you not to play I would ask one question: why are you still in that guild if their goals don't align with yours?

But hey, keep blaming those 'toxic guilds and commanders' for not carrying you.

Or leave the server.

[MadBomber.3719]

There will always be a gap of more hardcore players and casuals. I think the main issue at least for NA, is that there just aren't many experienced good drivers left. the playerbase has gone casual everyone just blobs, no groups want to fight alone. the "GvG Scene" is more lifeless than it has ever been. Whatever is left of the hardcore veteran playerbase basically stacked into 2-3 guilds, not that this is a new thing, players have always stacked guilds; but with the playerbase already depleted it creates an even bigger gap in skill level.

[babazhook.6805]

Community is not so much all peoples conforming to anothers version of what is "proper gameplay" as it is about people understanding that every other person is here for a different reason and gets what they want from this "Game" in a different way. The less time people spend trying to force others to change behaviour and focus on their own instead, themore enjoyment you are going to get.

There is always going to be casuals. There are always going to be those "elitists". There is always going to be the single roamers doing their own thing. There are always going to be people wanting to try to make what deemed "bad builds" work . There are always going to be people that insist only certain builds be used. Stop worrying about what the other is doing. No one has to put in effort to get better if they do not wish to. They all paid the same money for the game as everyone else. You can certainly give a player new to the game mode advice as to things s/he might to do improve but there no need to get worked up about it if they just do "Their own thing". This is a game first and foremost.

I played an old text based MUD for years , one that started with a small playerbase that focused on Roleplay. The game exploded in popularity at one point and our population increased several times over. Most of the newcomers had little to no interest in roleplay and the environment changed in many ways. A large segment of the old guard left even as some remained. That old guard jumped game to game trying to "recreate" the community they once had never quite finding it. Those that remained over the years saw a gradual decay in the number of players that saw no value in the Roleplay aspects and the game eventually had more of the Roleplay then what it had started with. Many of that old guard returned. The simple fact is had this explosion in population NOT occurred the game would have died and it still up and running competing with all of those graphical wonder games while still using text.

[Diku.2546]

Below are my personal observations & opinions...

Server vs Guild based Community

Server based communities tends to encourage a fixed & stable ecosystem.Guild based communities tends to encourage a dynamic & transient ecosystem.

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Fixed 3 Way & Tiers with Glicko / 1u-1d / etc. Match-Up Mechanic - This is the source of the problem - Need for a better Match-Up Mechanic

Both Server & Guild - 800-Pound Gorilla in the Room for each Tier - Match-Ups tend to be stuck in a predictable pattern that repeats itself without end

---

World Linking Impact to Community

Guest Server Communities - Lost identity & are in a negative trend of population declineHost Server Communities - Reinforced identity & had a temporary population boost, but number of migrating New players once supplied by Guest Servers are in decline. Add to that ANet's attempt to control Server Stacking issues by keeping Host Servers closed further exacerbates an overall WvW negative trend of population decline.

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Alliance Linking Impact to Community - Prediction - Toxic & Casual

Server based Communities - n/aGuild based Communities - Host Servers lose their identity like Guest Servers experienced with a negative trend of population decline & Player politics is allowed to impact the "Server" level of Community that was once not possible. Toxic behavior of Player politics opens the door to the potential for large scale abuse at the "Alliance" level of Community.

ANet will abandon their fiduciary duty to protect & nurture a positive WvW ecosystem by giving in to player's demands to replace ANet's role of managing Server Communities with Players directly controlling Alliance Communities.

Yours truly,Diku

p.s.See some of my past posts...please vote Helpful or Thumbs up if you agree.

[Forum Moderator.5907]

We are closing this thread because Match Up threads are not allowed.