Racial Skills Reworked into Racial Specialisations (Core)

Crackmonster.2790 · August 13, 2018

I'd maybe, maaybe like the idea if that had been the choice at launch.But here, it's gonna wreck characters that now need to be changed to optimize etc.It would piss people off.

Also

@"LaGranse.8652" said:The problem with anything racial is that if it has a large enough impact on how a profession is played, like in this case being an entire trait line, it will not be enough to be "X class", people would start asking for "X race X class" because that race performs better on the class because of the racials in some way or another. This is why the racial skills are slightly underwhelming compared to class skills, they are there for flavor.
If you in order to solve this gives the racials to all classes, they are not racials anymore.

Soaring Spirit.9170 · August 13, 2018

@Crackmonster.2790 said:I'd maybe, maaybe like the idea if that had been the choice at launch.But here, it's gonna wreck characters that now need to be changed to optimize etc.It would kitten people off.
Also
@"LaGranse.8652" said:The problem with anything racial is that if it has a large enough impact on how a profession is played, like in this case being an entire trait line, it will not be enough to be "X class", people would start asking for "X race X class" because that race performs better on the class because of the racials in some way or another. This is why the racial skills are slightly underwhelming compared to class skills, they are there for flavor.
If you in order to solve this gives the racials to all classes, they are not racials anymore.

That is essentially why you have to make each specialization accessible to everyone, as for people who get miffed, people get miffed every patch with the slightest change anyway if their build doesn't meet the "Established Meta" and they need to change a piece of gear. I had a little break a while back, came back Condi rangers dropped out of meta in favor for Power, all it means to me is I have to wait a while until I get some more gear for that character which doens't bother me at all.

Whats more on top of this racial skills not being racial anymore, while I have issues myself with the idea I've suggested, there is still a difference between the races. Understanding a fighting style and culture doesn't invalidate that existing culture. On top of that All races in the game CURRENTLY Fight exactly the SAME way anyway, they all run at the same speed, hit with the same amount of force (the reason Asura are able to hit as hard as Charr and Norn being both funny and horrid at the same time), the only MAJOR difference between them is visual and the position of the camera really oh and your racial armour is mutually exclusive too.

I'd much rather risk seeing an Asura become the bear or get an aura so its in an equivalent than NEVER see anyone use Bear Form at all, if you see racial skills these days its largely Hounds of Balthazar (because some people just love the cool factor :D) or MAYBE the Sylvari root given immobilise is useful in the odd location. You don't see Charrzooka's, Norn Forms at all really and thats simply because they are not useful to the point they may as well not be there. Ultimately this is a choice of lesser evils and I think more varied interesting game-play is worth the addition of such a thing, heck if done well and balanced well enough they can potentially become alternatives, meaning you would see things like Bear form and G.O.L.E.M Battle-suits actually in the frey. On top of it you get more incentive to add new races to the game as playable. Right now, there is very little, largely due to the fact that adding a new race on the part of Anet means having to rework all existing skins to work for whatever new model they apply, and voice act it etc. All so players can look different and that's about it.

If GW2 was not about accessibility and Race had many effects on your ability to play i.e. movement speed, armour choices, stat allocation etc. I certainly would not be offering the idea of having them be accessible across all races, the game however doesn’t work this way and as such it has to be part of the deal for an idea alike this :P.

Soaring Spirit.9170 · August 13, 2018

@LucianDK.8615 said:Bad idea, it would open a can of worms. Then youd end with like you are useless if you arent a sylvarri engineer or an asura elementalist and so on. When racials have been worthwhile, Anet have been quick to nerf them to the ground.
Imho, they should just be removed. Heck, Revenant cant even use any!

lol you saying that just puts the fun idea of if this were to be applicable in some way, Revenants getting something more special tied to something no longer in the Current world, like access to echo's of Owl (I wish Owl form had stayed it would look so beautiful and silly)

LaGranse.8652 · August 13, 2018

@"Gotenks Jr.3752" said:
That is essentially why you have to make each specialization accessible to everyone, as for people who get miffed, people get miffed every patch with the slightest change anyway if their build doesn't meet the "Established Meta" and they need to change a piece of gear. I had a little break a while back, came back Condi rangers dropped out of meta in favor for Power, all it means to me is I have to wait a while until I get some more gear for that character which doens't bother me at all.

Having high impact racials would screw people over way more than having to get some new gear.

Example:Before you left the "meta" was condition sylvari ranger, because some sylvari racials make them perform better on condi ranger.When you came back the "meta" had shifted to power charr ranger, because some charr racials make them perform better on power ranger.In order to be "meta" getting a set for power ranger is not enough. You also have to create a new character, possibly playing a race you do not enjoy, and level it up to 80.If you don't have any free character slots you would also need to buy one of those for 800 gems, or delete a character. Maybe your sylvari ranger also had some upgrades like extra bag slots that this new charr ranger will not have?

Disclaimer: Sylvari and Charr were used as examples, in no way, shape, or form am I saying that these races perform the best on said classes right now or would in the future.

LucianDK.8615 · August 13, 2018

And that is why racial spells is a bad idea. Breakbars is not an useful example as its not tied to a race.

Soaring Spirit.9170 · August 13, 2018

@LaGranse.8652 said:
@"Gotenks Jr.3752" said:
That is essentially why you have to make each specialization accessible to everyone, as for people who get miffed, people get miffed every patch with the slightest change anyway if their build doesn't meet the "Established Meta" and they need to change a piece of gear. I had a little break a while back, came back Condi rangers dropped out of meta in favor for Power, all it means to me is I have to wait a while until I get some more gear for that character which doens't bother me at all.

Having high impact racials would screw people over way more than having to get some new gear.

Example:Before you left the "meta" was condition sylvari ranger, because some sylvari racials make them perform better on condi ranger.When you came back the "meta" had shifted to power charr ranger, because some charr racials make them perform better on power ranger.In order to be "meta" getting a set for power ranger is not enough. You also have to create a new character, possibly playing a race you do not enjoy, and level it up to 80.If you don't have any free character slots you would also need to buy one of those for 800 gems, or delete a character. Maybe your sylvari ranger also had some upgrades like extra bag slots that this new charr ranger will not have?

Disclaimer: Sylvari and Charr were used as examples, in no way, shape, or form am I saying that these races perform the best on said classes right now or would in the future.

Which is why I said you make all races able to have the specialisations, you seem to be missing that. That way you can have a Charr Ranger which can be specialised to fight using the "Sylvari" specialisation.

Lily.1935 · August 13, 2018

@derd.6413 said:
@Lily.1935 said:
@derd.6413 said:
@Lily.1935 said:
@"LaGranse.8652" said:The problem with anything racial is that if it has a large enough impact on how a profession is played, like in this case being an entire trait line, it will not be enough to be "X class", people would start asking for "X race X class" because that race performs better on the class because of the racials in some way or another. This is why the racial skills are slightly underwhelming compared to class skills, they are there for flavor.
If you in order to solve this gives the racials to all classes, they are not racials anymore.

If they're not meant to be good why have them in the game? If they're not meant to be used what good are they to the players? Why have them at all? Personally, having them as common skills wouldn't be a problem. People could still use them as a means of role play or flavor for their character. Having them open to other races could be that "X character of the Sylvari race was so captivated by the norn culture she wanted to study and learn from them and practice in their arts." or something like that. I feel that this argument isn't that convincing since the skills are in the game, the races were supposed to have differences. But Arena net can't have it both ways. They can either make the skills good and give players a reason to play something aside from Human, make them good and keep them open to all races, or Keep them garbage and players annoyed at them and questioning why arena net introduced races in the first place.

or they could rework them into non-combat skills

And how would that work exactly? You're going to need to explain it because that has no in game equivalence.

have the skills work like tonics or things you'd find in the toy category of the gem store

This sounds like you're sucking all the fun out of the game to replace it with something superficial. And having to use a skill slot for it makes it even worse than just a tonic.

Lily.1935 · August 13, 2018

@LucianDK.8615 said:And that is why racial spells is a bad idea. Breakbars is not an useful example as its not tied to a race.

Except Break bars were the right call, which Me and a few others mentioned some years ago which was rejected by people like yourself in the forums who couldn't see past what was currently in the system. Its a fantastic example because it shows the same readiness to dismiss an idea outright without real thought.

Dadnir.5038 · August 13, 2018

To be honest, the idea seemed cool until I read the "how would this work" part. Each race should just have access to it's race spec and it shouldn't be difficult to make specs that work fine with all core professions unlike what the op seem to think.

LaGranse.8652 · August 13, 2018

@Gotenks Jr.3752 said:
@LaGranse.8652 said:
@Gotenks Jr.3752 said:
That is essentially why you have to make each specialization accessible to everyone, as for people who get miffed, people get miffed every patch with the slightest change anyway if their build doesn't meet the "Established Meta" and they need to change a piece of gear. I had a little break a while back, came back Condi rangers dropped out of meta in favor for Power, all it means to me is I have to wait a while until I get some more gear for that character which doens't bother me at all.

Having high impact racials would screw people over way more than having to get some new gear.

Example:Before you left the "meta" was condition sylvari ranger, because some sylvari racials make them perform better on condi ranger.When you came back the "meta" had shifted to power charr ranger, because some charr racials make them perform better on power ranger.In order to be "meta" getting a set for power ranger is not enough. You also have to create a new character, possibly playing a race you do not enjoy, and level it up to 80.If you don't have any free character slots you would also need to buy one of those for 800 gems, or delete a character. Maybe your sylvari ranger also had some upgrades like extra bag slots that this new charr ranger will not have?

Disclaimer: Sylvari and Charr were used as examples, in no way, shape, or form am I saying that these races perform the best on said classes right now or would in the future.

Which is why I said you make all races able to have the specialisations, you seem to be missing that. That way you can have a Charr Ranger which can be specialised to fight using the "Sylvari" specialisation.

I'm not missing that point, I just think that's not up for discussion because the racial skills are tied to the lore of Tyrias different races.

Example:A human cannot use the norn spirit forms because the spirits of the wild are the norn's spiritual guides. They have always been around to guide the norn race and when a norn take the form of a werebeast spirit they become closer to the spirit whose form they took.A norn cannot use the blessings from the human gods because the human gods brought the humans into Tyria, not the nords. The humans are these gods favored people and they thus give them their blessing.

Moira Shalaar.5620 · August 13, 2018

This topic comes up about every year or so, and I think it does because there is so much persistent interest in this idea. It certainly is near and dear to me and I have spent a lot of time thinking about it. Here is my own proposal, which I believe is both different in most ways than what has been presented already, and still retains the racial distinctions (hopefully) without introducing too much power creep.

The basic idea is that all benefits from the mastery only apply to a race while in their native racial zone. (Maguuma: Asura/ Sylvari; Kryta: Human; Ascalon: Charr; Shiverpeak Mountains: Norn). Bonuses versus racial enemies only work in native zone. Asura: Inquest; Sylvari: Nightmare Court; Human: Outlaw; Norn: Icebrood) Mastery bonuses do not have effect in instanced content or outside the native zone of the character's race.

MASTERY:Well Traveled - 1MP - Unlock Map entry Waypoints in racial zones and reduce the cost of using waypoints that both originate and end within that zone.

Local Guide - 1 MP - speed boost 10 in racial zone. This boost stacks with other speed boosts (c.f. new aquatic infusions) from boons and traits. This boost is halved while mounted.

Foe Fighter - 2 MP - 10% Bonus Damage versus hereditary enemies while in racial zone, and 10% damage reduction to damage taken from hereditary enemies while in racial zone. These bonuses do not stack with bonuses from sigils and potions. (this allows others to gain comparable effect if they want)

Local Fighter - 2 MP - Gain access to Racial skills. These skills use F6 (for healing) through F10 (for Elite). These racial skills only show up while in racial zone, and are fixed numbers not effected by boons, traits, primary/secondary ability scores, etc. Utility skills have a 120 second cool down. Elite and healing skills have a 180 second cool down, and cool downs cannot be reset or reduced by any mechanics (c.f. something like mistlock singularities, and no, these should not be available in fractals either). I would actually be in favor of reducing the number of skills here to only 1 healing, 1 utility and 1 elite if that would help balance power creep.

The names are supremely unimportant, just something to hang the ideas on. By limiting the bonuses to racial zones, my thought was to give the feeling of people performing a little better in places they know really well, kind of a home team advantage idea. By using the F Skills, this would also allow revenants to take advantage of them without messing up the unique profession mechanic. By limiting to open world and non-instanced, these cannot impact challenging group content (i.e. dungeons) or expansion areas.

Dadnir.5038 · August 13, 2018

@Lily.1935 said:
@LucianDK.8615 said:And that is why racial spells is a bad idea. Breakbars is not an useful example as its not tied to a race.

Except Break bars were the right call, which Me and a few others mentioned some years ago which was rejected by people like yourself in the forums who couldn't see past what was currently in the system. Its a fantastic example because it shows the same readiness to dismiss an idea outright without real thought.

That's arguable since breakbar is one of the numerous things that grab the ankle of the necromancer in PvE. A necromancer would be more effective if the breakbar was replaced by stability since anet seem hellbent to make boon corruption is goto tool. Same goes for a lot of soft conditions that can simply be brushed off thanks to breakbar and make professions that rely on them useless.

The breakbar sure is a good mechanism but it is also something can be seen as having a negative impact on general balance.

Soaring Spirit.9170 · August 13, 2018

@LaGranse.8652 said:
@Gotenks Jr.3752 said:
@LaGranse.8652 said:
@Gotenks Jr.3752 said:
That is essentially why you have to make each specialization accessible to everyone, as for people who get miffed, people get miffed every patch with the slightest change anyway if their build doesn't meet the "Established Meta" and they need to change a piece of gear. I had a little break a while back, came back Condi rangers dropped out of meta in favor for Power, all it means to me is I have to wait a while until I get some more gear for that character which doens't bother me at all.

Having high impact racials would screw people over way more than having to get some new gear.

Example:Before you left the "meta" was condition sylvari ranger, because some sylvari racials make them perform better on condi ranger.When you came back the "meta" had shifted to power charr ranger, because some charr racials make them perform better on power ranger.In order to be "meta" getting a set for power ranger is not enough. You also have to create a new character, possibly playing a race you do not enjoy, and level it up to 80.If you don't have any free character slots you would also need to buy one of those for 800 gems, or delete a character. Maybe your sylvari ranger also had some upgrades like extra bag slots that this new charr ranger will not have?

Disclaimer: Sylvari and Charr were used as examples, in no way, shape, or form am I saying that these races perform the best on said classes right now or would in the future.

Which is why I said you make all races able to have the specialisations, you seem to be missing that. That way you can have a Charr Ranger which can be specialised to fight using the "Sylvari" specialisation.

I'm not missing that point, I just think that's not up for discussion because the racial skills are tied to the lore of Tyrias different races.

Example:A human cannot use the norn spirit forms because the

spirits of the wild

are the norn's spiritual guides. They have always been around to guide the norn race and when a norn take the form of a werebeast spirit they become closer to the spirit whose form they took.A norn cannot use the blessings from the

human gods

because the human gods brought the humans into Tyria, not the nords. The humans are these gods favored people and they thus give them their blessing.

Well they can we learn as Human in GW1 how to channel the blessings of Bear Raven and Wolf, equally if I recall correctly the Norn view the Human Gods as "other spirits of the wild" seeing Balthazar as the Spirit of War for example, you can even use Avatar of Balthazar in your personal Story if you go down certain routes, albeit by a different means to the method employed by Dervishes.

The thing is as with all cultures they change over time, so faiths move around and change as do the cultures around them. I remember a long time hearing a Dev say on Stream "This is GW2 not GW1", which is indeed a correct statement, however it doesn't change the fact its the same Universe, equally it doesn't change the fact that Bear may opt to bless a non-norn or a Human God answer the prayers of a non-human.OK the aesthetic may change, which is an idea I like, however it is still possible even within Lore. You may equally argue that the blessing is weaker, however for functionalities sake we would have it the be the same for balance.

I know my lore isn't perfect or up to date, however I believe what I am saying is correct.

Lily.1935 · August 13, 2018

@Dadnir.5038 said:
@Lily.1935 said:
@LucianDK.8615 said:And that is why racial spells is a bad idea. Breakbars is not an useful example as its not tied to a race.

Except Break bars were the right call, which Me and a few others mentioned some years ago which was rejected by people like yourself in the forums who couldn't see past what was currently in the system. Its a fantastic example because it shows the same readiness to dismiss an idea outright without real thought.

That's arguable since breakbar is one of the numerous things that grab the ankle of the necromancer in PvE. A necromancer would be more effective if the breakbar was replaced by stability since anet seem hellbent to make boon corruption is goto tool. Same goes for a lot of soft conditions that can simply be brushed off thanks to breakbar and make professions that rely on them useless.

The breakbar sure is a good mechanism but it is also something can be seen as having a negative impact on general balance.

Except the stability wouldn't help necromancer since a Chronomancer can just strip it by auto attacking. Why the breakbar is frustrating to necromancers is because of balance around the necromancer, not a flaw with the breakbar itself. Personally, I feel Fear and taunt should do heavy damage to a break bar as opposed to the weak degen that is only slightly stronger than chill. But that's a topic for another day.

Lily.1935 · August 13, 2018

What if rather than calling them "Racial specializations" we call them "Cultural specializations". The distinction would give Arena net the chance to allow all players to unlock each of them on one character and use their cultural skills. One thing I don't agree with the OP is that the Human Specialization should be Dervish focused. But rather I'd prefer to see a Divinity's Reach specialization that uses the human culture as a basis for the skills. And this could also have more room for Anet to grow for Future expansions. Lets say this was added, all Core race cultural specializations were added into the game. Well now we can get Amnoon specialization(Or Elonian), or later Canthan specialization. Perhaps we could get a Kodan Specialization. It doesn't have to end with just the core races, it can continue with new expansions.

AlexndrTheGreat.8310 · August 13, 2018

Interesting idea, but not feasible. This just exponentially increases the balancing effort needed from ANet which isn’t going to happen. They already stated that they don’t want race to determine how you make your character (ie, humans give you the most dps, norn if you want to tank, etc). By making each a different specialization accessible to each race, it’s at that point not even a racial thing anymore, it’s just more unneeded effort especially since it’s, as you stated, 45 unique specialization that need to be unique and balanced.

derd.6413 · August 13, 2018

@Lily.1935 said:
@derd.6413 said:
@Lily.1935 said:
@derd.6413 said:
@Lily.1935 said:
@"LaGranse.8652" said:The problem with anything racial is that if it has a large enough impact on how a profession is played, like in this case being an entire trait line, it will not be enough to be "X class", people would start asking for "X race X class" because that race performs better on the class because of the racials in some way or another. This is why the racial skills are slightly underwhelming compared to class skills, they are there for flavor.
If you in order to solve this gives the racials to all classes, they are not racials anymore.

If they're not meant to be good why have them in the game? If they're not meant to be used what good are they to the players? Why have them at all? Personally, having them as common skills wouldn't be a problem. People could still use them as a means of role play or flavor for their character. Having them open to other races could be that "X character of the Sylvari race was so captivated by the norn culture she wanted to study and learn from them and practice in their arts." or something like that. I feel that this argument isn't that convincing since the skills are in the game, the races were supposed to have differences. But Arena net can't have it both ways. They can either make the skills good and give players a reason to play something aside from Human, make them good and keep them open to all races, or Keep them garbage and players annoyed at them and questioning why arena net introduced races in the first place.

or they could rework them into non-combat skills

And how would that work exactly? You're going to need to explain it because that has no in game equivalence.

have the skills work like tonics or things you'd find in the toy category of the gem store

This sounds like you're sucking all the fun out of the game to replace it with something superficial. And having to use a skill slot for it makes it even worse than just a tonic.

it's a bare bones suggestion but one i believe has potential since "doesn't affect combat" is a minor limitation and i wouldn't call everything non-combat related superficial

also a ui change wil probably be necessary no matter what you do given the revenant unless all of them get's turned into passive abilities

Soaring Spirit.9170 · August 13, 2018

@"Lily.1935" said:What if rather than calling them "Racial specializations" we call them "Cultural specializations". The distinction would give Arena net the chance to allow all players to unlock each of them on one character and use their cultural skills. One thing I don't agree with the OP is that the Human Specialization should be Dervish focused. But rather I'd prefer to see a Divinity's Reach specialization that uses the human culture as a basis for the skills. And this could also have more room for Anet to grow for Future expansions. Lets say this was added, all Core race cultural specializations were added into the game. Well now we can get Amnoon specialization(Or Elonian), or later Canthan specialization. Perhaps we could get a Kodan Specialization. It doesn't have to end with just the core races, it can continue with new expansions.

I have no objection to these suggestions at all they sound really cool, my original post I mostly wanted to get the concept across for discussion and give an idea on how i thought it may work ^^.

Edit: I forgot to include but wanted to add, I largely used Dervish as an example, as it was the first Human thing that came to my mind, they are more placeholder than anything else in terms of what I called then.

Lily.1935 · August 13, 2018

@derd.6413 said:
@Lily.1935 said:
@derd.6413 said:
@Lily.1935 said:
@derd.6413 said:
@Lily.1935 said:
@"LaGranse.8652" said:The problem with anything racial is that if it has a large enough impact on how a profession is played, like in this case being an entire trait line, it will not be enough to be "X class", people would start asking for "X race X class" because that race performs better on the class because of the racials in some way or another. This is why the racial skills are slightly underwhelming compared to class skills, they are there for flavor.
If you in order to solve this gives the racials to all classes, they are not racials anymore.

If they're not meant to be good why have them in the game? If they're not meant to be used what good are they to the players? Why have them at all? Personally, having them as common skills wouldn't be a problem. People could still use them as a means of role play or flavor for their character. Having them open to other races could be that "X character of the Sylvari race was so captivated by the norn culture she wanted to study and learn from them and practice in their arts." or something like that. I feel that this argument isn't that convincing since the skills are in the game, the races were supposed to have differences. But Arena net can't have it both ways. They can either make the skills good and give players a reason to play something aside from Human, make them good and keep them open to all races, or Keep them garbage and players annoyed at them and questioning why arena net introduced races in the first place.

or they could rework them into non-combat skills

And how would that work exactly? You're going to need to explain it because that has no in game equivalence.

have the skills work like tonics or things you'd find in the toy category of the gem store

This sounds like you're sucking all the fun out of the game to replace it with something superficial. And having to use a skill slot for it makes it even worse than just a tonic.

it's a bare bones suggestion but one i believe has potential since "doesn't affect combat" is a minor limitation and i wouldn't call everything non-combat related superficial

also a ui change wil probably be necessary no matter what you do given the revenant unless all of them get's turned into passive abilities

I'd really like all the new skills be accessible to revenant as well.. They desperately need better customization and them being allowed to use potentially 10 different cultural/racial skills sounds like a build tester's dream to me. You point it out as a bad thing, I just see fun.

Lily.1935 · August 13, 2018

@Gotenks Jr.3752 said:
@"Lily.1935" said:What if rather than calling them "Racial specializations" we call them "Cultural specializations". The distinction would give Arena net the chance to allow all players to unlock each of them on one character and use their cultural skills. One thing I don't agree with the OP is that the Human Specialization should be Dervish focused. But rather I'd prefer to see a Divinity's Reach specialization that uses the human culture as a basis for the skills. And this could also have more room for Anet to grow for Future expansions. Lets say this was added, all Core race cultural specializations were added into the game. Well now we can get Amnoon specialization(Or Elonian), or later Canthan specialization. Perhaps we could get a Kodan Specialization. It doesn't have to end with just the core races, it can continue with new expansions.

I have no objection to these suggestions at all they sound really cool, my original post I mostly wanted to get the concept across for discussion and give an idea on how i thought it may work ^^.

Edit: I forgot to include but wanted to add, I largely used Dervish as an example, as it was the first Human thing that came to my mind, they are more placeholder than anything else in terms of what I called then.

Not a problem. I think that could be a part of an Elonian Specialization along with some Paragon skills. Oh, like a couple of shouts and prayers. Would prayers fall under the catagory of concentration or meditation? Hmm. I've been trying to answer that one myself for an elite spec I'm working on as my own fan project.

derd.6413 · August 14, 2018

@Lily.1935 said:
@derd.6413 said:
@Lily.1935 said:
@derd.6413 said:
@Lily.1935 said:
@derd.6413 said:
@Lily.1935 said:
@"LaGranse.8652" said:The problem with anything racial is that if it has a large enough impact on how a profession is played, like in this case being an entire trait line, it will not be enough to be "X class", people would start asking for "X race X class" because that race performs better on the class because of the racials in some way or another. This is why the racial skills are slightly underwhelming compared to class skills, they are there for flavor.
If you in order to solve this gives the racials to all classes, they are not racials anymore.

If they're not meant to be good why have them in the game? If they're not meant to be used what good are they to the players? Why have them at all? Personally, having them as common skills wouldn't be a problem. People could still use them as a means of role play or flavor for their character. Having them open to other races could be that "X character of the Sylvari race was so captivated by the norn culture she wanted to study and learn from them and practice in their arts." or something like that. I feel that this argument isn't that convincing since the skills are in the game, the races were supposed to have differences. But Arena net can't have it both ways. They can either make the skills good and give players a reason to play something aside from Human, make them good and keep them open to all races, or Keep them garbage and players annoyed at them and questioning why arena net introduced races in the first place.

or they could rework them into non-combat skills

And how would that work exactly? You're going to need to explain it because that has no in game equivalence.

have the skills work like tonics or things you'd find in the toy category of the gem store

This sounds like you're sucking all the fun out of the game to replace it with something superficial. And having to use a skill slot for it makes it even worse than just a tonic.

it's a bare bones suggestion but one i believe has potential since "doesn't affect combat" is a minor limitation and i wouldn't call everything non-combat related superficial

also a ui change wil probably be necessary no matter what you do given the revenant unless all of them get's turned into passive abilities

I'd really like all the new skills be accessible to revenant as well.. They desperately need better customization and them being allowed to use potentially 10 different cultural/racial skills sounds like a build tester's dream to me. You point it out as a bad thing, I just see fun.

I don't see it as a bad thing but if you want to misconstrue half my arguments and ignore the rest thats fine too

Soaring Spirit.9170 · August 14, 2018

@Lily.1935 said:
@Gotenks Jr.3752 said:
@Lily.1935 said:What if rather than calling them "Racial specializations" we call them "Cultural specializations". The distinction would give Arena net the chance to allow all players to unlock each of them on one character and use their cultural skills. One thing I don't agree with the OP is that the Human Specialization should be Dervish focused. But rather I'd prefer to see a Divinity's Reach specialization that uses the human culture as a basis for the skills. And this could also have more room for Anet to grow for Future expansions. Lets say this was added, all Core race cultural specializations were added into the game. Well now we can get Amnoon specialization(Or Elonian), or later Canthan specialization. Perhaps we could get a Kodan Specialization. It doesn't have to end with just the core races, it can continue with new expansions.

I have no objection to these suggestions at all they sound really cool, my original post I mostly wanted to get the concept across for discussion and give an idea on how i thought it may work ^^.

Edit: I forgot to include but wanted to add, I largely used Dervish as an example, as it was the first Human thing that came to my mind, they are more placeholder than anything else in terms of what I called then.

Not a problem. I think that could be a part of an Elonian Specialization along with some Paragon skills. Oh, like a couple of shouts and prayers. Would prayers fall under the catagory of concentration or meditation? Hmm. I've been trying to answer that one myself for an elite spec I'm working on as my own fan project.

It really depends how far they would want to go with it, remember Paragon had chants and Echo's too, I don't think they would be easy to implement but it is something to consider as to what theme/ style it may add for players to work with.

Just popping into your concept you did give me other fun reminders, such as the return of Dwarven Brawling / Battle Stance, equally Revenant could be where it truly shines should it offer legends from the cultures the Revenant chooses to use. While Sylvari do already have Ventari they do have other Legends in their culture, it really depends of the depth you'd want to go into when it comes to them. I would however say you'd need to think of a nice one for HoT too given Amnoon is technically Path of Fire., I suppose it would be Exalted or Hylek based

perilisk.1874 · August 14, 2018

I could see if maybe it was (i) tied to a set of expansion masteries, and (i) was implemented with a fourth trait line that only worked in story and open world PvE. And was only one, general purpose line for each race -- so 5, rather than 45.

Lily.1935 · August 14, 2018

@derd.6413 said:
@Lily.1935 said:
@derd.6413 said:
@Lily.1935 said:
@derd.6413 said:
@Lily.1935 said:
@derd.6413 said:
@Lily.1935 said:
@"LaGranse.8652" said:The problem with anything racial is that if it has a large enough impact on how a profession is played, like in this case being an entire trait line, it will not be enough to be "X class", people would start asking for "X race X class" because that race performs better on the class because of the racials in some way or another. This is why the racial skills are slightly underwhelming compared to class skills, they are there for flavor.
If you in order to solve this gives the racials to all classes, they are not racials anymore.

If they're not meant to be good why have them in the game? If they're not meant to be used what good are they to the players? Why have them at all? Personally, having them as common skills wouldn't be a problem. People could still use them as a means of role play or flavor for their character. Having them open to other races could be that "X character of the Sylvari race was so captivated by the norn culture she wanted to study and learn from them and practice in their arts." or something like that. I feel that this argument isn't that convincing since the skills are in the game, the races were supposed to have differences. But Arena net can't have it both ways. They can either make the skills good and give players a reason to play something aside from Human, make them good and keep them open to all races, or Keep them garbage and players annoyed at them and questioning why arena net introduced races in the first place.

or they could rework them into non-combat skills

And how would that work exactly? You're going to need to explain it because that has no in game equivalence.

have the skills work like tonics or things you'd find in the toy category of the gem store

This sounds like you're sucking all the fun out of the game to replace it with something superficial. And having to use a skill slot for it makes it even worse than just a tonic.

it's a bare bones suggestion but one i believe has potential since "doesn't affect combat" is a minor limitation and i wouldn't call everything non-combat related superficial

also a ui change wil probably be necessary no matter what you do given the revenant unless all of them get's turned into passive abilities

I'd really like all the new skills be accessible to revenant as well.. They desperately need better customization and them being allowed to use potentially 10 different cultural/racial skills sounds like a build tester's dream to me. You point it out as a bad thing, I just see fun.

I don't see it as a bad thing but if you want to misconstrue half my arguments and ignore the rest thats fine too

I'd suggest trying to explain it better than, because if I'm getting something wrong, its not intentional. Its on you to make sure you are clear and concise.

derd.6413 · August 14, 2018

@Lily.1935 said:
@derd.6413 said:
@Lily.1935 said:
@derd.6413 said:
@Lily.1935 said:
@derd.6413 said:
@Lily.1935 said:
@derd.6413 said:
@Lily.1935 said:
@"LaGranse.8652" said:The problem with anything racial is that if it has a large enough impact on how a profession is played, like in this case being an entire trait line, it will not be enough to be "X class", people would start asking for "X race X class" because that race performs better on the class because of the racials in some way or another. This is why the racial skills are slightly underwhelming compared to class skills, they are there for flavor.
If you in order to solve this gives the racials to all classes, they are not racials anymore.