Its becoming less of a l2p issue.

[iKeostuKen.2738]

@Aeolus.3615 said:@iKeostuKen.2738 , theres never a "thats so much AOE", that's how u get carried, and it is the mandatory way to play this game. XD

Sadly it is now lol. I dont really agree with that philosophy which is why I play less then usual. Everytime i come back though I just have to question...why is it much worse then it was before and why has it been going on for so long.

[Aeolus.3615]

@iKeostuKen.2738, jus tto think that next expantion classes will have to be stronger than the POF lameness, so players feel they have to buy the new gimmicks to get carried.

Trade chat: WTB decent/clever developer to design decent classes that provide clevers ans skilllfull gameplay.

[Strider Pj.2193]

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:

@Etheri.5406 said:

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:Yes im not invested into WvW, because as you can see, the design is flawed in many ways. I dont know my enemy servers because it literally just switched a day ago, nor do I really care much because a enemy is a enemy, not like tactics change up much in my bracket, everyone just blobs around with the occasional power creeped roamers. Used to be hardcore about PvP back then but now im casual cause balance and class design has been in a full downward spiral.

"It's not L2P issues, i'm not invested in the gamemode, have no idea what's going on I'm just here throwing a tantrum because I do neither plays nor counterplays!". I just do my own thing and expect it to work, and if it doesn't the game is counterintuitive !!!

Aren't you the core engi complaining that their build isn't effective enough in zergs while also saying meta is "too boring, easy and awful".

I mean you actually say DODGE isn't strong enough OMEGALUL. ITT : Many L2P issues and virtually no design issues.

Never said dodge isnt strong enough, Im saying, why create a mechanic that counters dodge it when it wasnt necessary.

I think you missed his explanation through all of the noise..

Let me ask you: Can you dodge and get out of immobilize once you are immobilized? No.

The guardian skill you referenced would have had to be blocked when the chain was placed. Once it's placed, the pull can't be dodged.

Effectively you are trying to 'dodge out of immobilize'

[Etheri.5406]

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:

@Etheri.5406 said:

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:Yes im not invested into WvW, because as you can see, the design is flawed in many ways. I dont know my enemy servers because it literally just switched a day ago, nor do I really care much because a enemy is a enemy, not like tactics change up much in my bracket, everyone just blobs around with the occasional power creeped roamers. Used to be hardcore about PvP back then but now im casual cause balance and class design has been in a full downward spiral.

"It's not L2P issues, i'm not invested in the gamemode, have no idea what's going on I'm just here throwing a tantrum because I do neither plays nor counterplays!". I just do my own thing and expect it to work, and if it doesn't the game is counterintuitive !!!

Aren't you the core engi complaining that their build isn't effective enough in zergs while also saying meta is "too boring, easy and awful".

I mean you actually say DODGE isn't strong enough OMEGALUL. ITT : Many L2P issues and virtually no design issues.

Reading is a skill you have yet to master. "Less of a l2p issue" Im not claiming that experience isnt valuable in this game, but changes are making it so even though you do have knowledge it isnt helpful as classes are being overtuned into a state where they are just to effective while not having to sacrifice anything to gain those results. I do play core engineer, but the thing you are refering to is me saying "Winds of Disenchantment does not need to block projectiles". Which I still standby as having a boon negation zone on a large radius on a field is enough for it. Its another example of a overtuned ability.

Never said dodge isnt strong enough, Im saying, why create a mechanic that counters dodge it when it wasnt necessary.

Wait, dodge spamming doesn't need a counter? Mkay.You LITERALLY CAN DODGE THESE PULLS. You just failed to get the timing right. Somehow that's "not a L2P issue and creating a counter where there shouldn't be one". What?

Sure, WoD is overtuned. Yet here we are, a core engi that doesn't know when to dodge saying it's NOT L2P issues... It's just the game. The same engi that pretends it's the reflects holding back his core engi. Shall we go nerf retal after? ;)

How do you manage - on your core engi - to make several threads regarding balance while constantly flaming the idea of ANY meta or effective builds. While in each one showing you don't even grasp how the gamemode is played, how other classes work or what is going on among the players that do know what works and what doesn't.

You should ask for ADVISE on how to improve. How to counter these things. Not be telling anet - or anyone else - how to play or how to balance. Because truthfully, you have NO CLUE.

You're allergic to meta. Allergic to optimization. Allergic to playing well. Allergic to organisation and coordination. Yet you expect results. Yet you'll throw a tantrum as soon as someone counters your gameplay... Which pretty much counters itself. I think that even GW2 isn't casual enough for you. I suggest candy crush.

"I DODGED WHILE I HAD CONDIES ON ME BUT I STILL DIED FROM BURNING. WHY DID ANET CREATE CONDIES AS COUNTER TO DODGING???"

That's pretty much this thread. You failed to dodge the initial application, then tried to dodge after effects. Then threw a tantrum because you wasted your dodge and still took the effects, claiming "it's not about knowledge"... Yeah I'll see myself out.

[iKeostuKen.2738]

@Aeolus.3615 said:@iKeostuKen.2738, jus tto think that next expantion classes will have to be stronger than the POF lameness, so players feel they have to buy the new gimmicks to get carried.

Trade chat: WTB decent/clever developer to design decent classes that provide clevers ans skilllfull gameplay.

By then there will be better game options...sadly none mmorpgs TuT

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

I think you missed his explanation through all of the noise..

Let me ask you: Can you dodge and get out of immobilize once you are immobilized? No.

The guardian skill you referenced would have had to be blocked when the chain was placed. Once it's placed, the pull can't be dodged.

Effectively you are trying to 'dodge out of immobilize'

I get why it happens. But my issue is, if a player does dodge but it registers due to lag, then that doesnt sound as if its working as intended. Which is no fault on the player using it or being on the opposite end. But more of a design issue.

[Sovereign.1093]

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:

@"Sovereign.1093" said:

we may have gotten lucky or the enemy was not coordinated but you can have some fun if you in voip and work together and learn to get better.

with few, you can fight many unless they bring the blob. =p

God that is so much AOE! I dont think it was luck, they looked uncoordinated for sure but there just so much support going on in this video that I dont think they could have really done much of anything against you guys. Once I saw 10000 barrier on you I had to shake my head. Its cool what can be achieved in a group but theres a point where you gotta ask, is this to much for PvP. It looks like thins needed for PvE but so unhealthy since things are just stand on this field and spam to your hearts content. I honestly felt bad for the condi players. Seeing them pull off all those conditions and having no effects has to be a heartbreaking experience.

But when that zerg came in...look at all that clutter on the ground lol. It was insane when it was just you few but when thats amplified to a large ton of players, it just doesnt look enjoyable. Kudos to you guys for surviving for a long fight!

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:

@"Sovereign.1093" said:

we may have gotten lucky or the enemy was not coordinated but you can have some fun if you in voip and work together and learn to get better.

with few, you can fight many unless they bring the blob. =p

God that is so much AOE! I dont think it was luck, they looked uncoordinated for sure but there just so much support going on in this video that I dont think they could have really done much of anything against you guys. Once I saw 10000 barrier on you I had to shake my head. Its cool what can be achieved in a group but theres a point where you gotta ask, is this to much for PvP. It looks like thins needed for PvE but so unhealthy since things are just stand on this field and spam to your hearts content. I honestly felt bad for the condi players. Seeing them pull off all those conditions and having no effects has to be a heartbreaking experience.

But when that zerg came in...look at all that clutter on the ground lol. It was insane when it was just you few but when thats amplified to a large ton of players, it just doesnt look enjoyable. Kudos to you guys for surviving for a long fight!

Well compared to those we fought, my team has the calm state of mind to handle the situation. And like I've always said, we specialize in this sort of thing.

[bq pd.2148]

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

pretty simply if it is not rng, it is l2p.there are singular builds you have an issue with, now that means probably they are better suited for the task. if they also have issues fighting each other, than that is a type of rock paper scissors and you need to l2p, if you are rock paper or scrissors and avoid the fights that you will lose.yes warrior has mobility but they are all leaps. leaps are animation locked wich you can punish and can be evaded at the end. warriors offense is slow and telegraphed => can be kited by pretty much every one aside from maybe a necro. if the warrior didnt have so many stances etc. it would be a free kill, because every other class has an easier time appling potential damage.as for the pull mechanic @Sojourner.4621 explained it above. knowing the vulnerability frames in your evades is l2p.not sure what you want to tell me with your last pragraph. in WvW we fight as a team, as a server. while a thief might be able to hit you for all your HP with a single backstab, as i said above without you yourself being a thief you have no reason to walk alone solo. in a thief vs thief being hit or not hit by the backstab is l2p. because either you have enough stealth to avoid it or your opposing thief has more stealth, than you have more mobility to avoid it. when you run in a group a thief backstabbing you is a nonissue because we have downedstate that will carry the larger number group. and again if you want to solo roam on something else than a thief, you have to be prepared for a thief and bring enough sustain so that you do not die to the inital engage out of stealth.

That isnt particularly true. As there are times where things are overtuned and need to be brought down.Example: PowerCreeped classes.

Singular builds, mostly due to how its designed. A class with high mobility, high damage, better survivability then most others, and amazing cleave damage. (Spellbreaker)Good design would call for a sacrifice to defenses for more power, a sacrifice to mobility for more defense, sadly this takes the cake for all 3 categories. Its mobility being leaps doesnt mean much either, it tracks, theres no bullfighting technique to a warriors mobility. You may say evade the intiital rush, doing so gives them ample enough time to already be ready to hit you again as the evade animation is longer then there attacking animation and the dodge effect doesnt hold for the entire animation of the dodge. Warriors offense is also not slow.

Not sure I can agree with that logic on if you are not a thief you cant roam solo. It was a thing before with mostly any class, but now theres been to many changes to the game that can allow for a full health backstab. Are these changes healthy? Not in any way. Especially when theres no counterplay to it. There isnt a pulsing reveal status classes have, theres nothing to tell them that a stealthed target is in the vicinity unless the thief messes up and reveals itself. With that design in mind, why make it so that there potential to down someone in 1 low effort attack with no time to respond to it? There is no sustain to being downed in 1 hit btw.

the good thing is you keep putting up warrior as a strong class for 1 vs 1, wich makes it easy for me to just see all your post as l2p issue. warrior has the most telegraphed offense of all classes, wich means their damage is the easiest to avoid. wich also means balance wise they need a ton of defense and when they hit they need to hit hard. else they will be a free kill. but when a warrior faces someone that doesnt understand his defense mechanics and is unable to avoid his offense, yeah then they very easily appear overtuned. 'warriors offense is not slow' any other class has instant or near instant attacks , yet warrior is not slow ? warrior has some instant shout oh yeah 'Fear Me!' will certainly keep the opponent from using a stunbreak before your next hit connects.the issue with overtuned or not is for a given task the optimal build depends on player skill level. in a noob vs noob fight a warrior will win against a thief in most tries. yet if both are decent players the thief will win in at least 9/10 tries in a 1 vs 1 in WvW. so on low skill level the warrior is better in 1 vs 1 , on higher skill level thief. yet does that mean they are overtuned on either skill level ? or is it just that you can just play any build in any situation while expecting optimal results? a good warrior might be better in 1 vs 5 against 5 noobs than a good thief, because the thief will have issues stomping. but that thief might be better in 1 vs 2 against a little above average players were the warrior will just get destroyed. it allways depends on what you face.ultimately if we talking really good players that are aware of like most every mechanics in the game and dont just KNOW them but USE them and are prepared for them, then it is impossible to win a 1 vs 3, nearly impossible to win a 1 vs 2 and 1 vs 1 depend on build and envoirement, yet the thief is the only one that can pick all his fights and this ability should make it impossible to lose any 1 vs 1, they might not win em all but they shouldnt be losing any either. this is the very reason a thief is and has allways been the single one optimal solo roamer. and yes people still roam on other classes but that is mostly due to opponents that are terribly bad and way below their skill level.

a full health backstab to rather squishy targets has allways been possible , that has nothing to do with changes. the changes just made it more efficient to play for one single higher burst because people will chain too many active defenses, coupled with boos, damage mitigation/cleanses and heals wich makes sustained damage rather weak in comparison. its easier to get away with a oneshot attempt than it would be if you build for so high sustained damage that you can wear them down, that just requires alot more sustain on your part aswell and thieves still have no bruiser option.but what makes a thief running around onehitting squishy solo roamers overtuned in the context of the WvW mode? if everyone would play optimal, these thieves would only kill each other. because noone else would be a viable target, as they wouldnt run around solo and thief has probably the biggest issues of all classes to finish an opponent in an outnumbered fight. againt a group with 2 good supporters and the rest potatoes for example, the only chance for me to kill someone is to kill them with downed penalty, wich requires them to be terribly bad because dying 4 times within 1 minute while being supported is hard. with 1 good supporter, killing them first often works. same with people being able to put up decent pressure, i need to kill them first because they wont let me finish anyone else. the good thing is, in many outnumbered fights there is at most 1 rather decent opponent so it still works to fight them as a thief, but if people would l2p..well then we would only win 1 vs 1 maybe 1 vs 2.

[iKeostuKen.2738]

@MUDse.7623 said:

the good thing is you keep putting up warrior as a strong class for 1 vs 1, wich makes it easy for me to just see all your post as l2p issue. warrior has the most telegraphed offense of all classes, wich means their damage is the easiest to avoid. wich also means balance wise they need a ton of defense and when they hit they need to hit hard. else they will be a free kill. but when a warrior faces someone that doesnt understand his defense mechanics and is unable to avoid his offense, yeah then they very easily appear overtuned. 'warriors offense is not slow' any other class has instant or near instant attacks , yet warrior is not slow ? warrior has some instant shout oh yeah 'Fear Me!' will certainly keep the opponent from using a stunbreak before your next hit connects.the issue with overtuned or not is for a given task the optimal build depends on player skill level. in a noob vs noob fight a warrior will win against a thief in most tries. yet if both are decent players the thief will win in at least 9/10 tries in a 1 vs 1 in WvW. so on low skill level the warrior is better in 1 vs 1 , on higher skill level thief. yet does that mean they are overtuned on either skill level ? or is it just that you can just play any build in any situation while expecting optimal results? a good warrior might be better in 1 vs 5 against 5 noobs than a good thief, because the thief will have issues stomping. but that thief might be better in 1 vs 2 against a little above average players were the warrior will just get destroyed. it allways depends on what you face.ultimately if we talking really good players that are aware of like most every mechanics in the game and dont just KNOW them but USE them and are prepared for them, then it is impossible to win a 1 vs 3, nearly impossible to win a 1 vs 2 and 1 vs 1 depend on build and envoirement, yet the thief is the only one that can pick all his fights and this ability should make it impossible to lose any 1 vs 1, they might not win em all but they shouldnt be losing any either. this is the very reason a thief is and has allways been the single one optimal solo roamer. and yes people still roam on other classes but that is mostly due to opponents that are terribly bad and way below their skill level.

a full health backstab to rather squishy targets has allways been possible , that has nothing to do with changes. the changes just made it more efficient to play for one single higher burst because people will chain too many active defenses, coupled with boos, damage mitigation/cleanses and heals wich makes sustained damage rather weak in comparison. its easier to get away with a oneshot attempt than it would be if you build for so high sustained damage that you can wear them down, that just requires alot more sustain on your part aswell and thieves still have no bruiser option.but what makes a thief running around onehitting squishy solo roamers overtuned in the context of the WvW mode? if everyone would play optimal, these thieves would only kill each other. because noone else would be a viable target, as they wouldnt run around solo and thief has probably the biggest issues of all classes to finish an opponent in an outnumbered fight. againt a group with 2 good supporters and the rest potatoes for example, the only chance for me to kill someone is to kill them with downed penalty, wich requires them to be terribly bad because dying 4 times within 1 minute while being supported is hard. with 1 good supporter, killing them first often works. same with people being able to put up decent pressure, i need to kill them first because they wont let me finish anyone else. the good thing is, in many outnumbered fights there is at most 1 rather decent opponent so it still works to fight them as a thief, but if people would l2p..well then we would only win 1 vs 1 maybe 1 vs 2.

So because a warrior has less instant cast then others and (more telegraphed attacks) which is odd because many of the abilities in this game are pretty readable when they require a target, they deserve to be able to have massive cleave damage, be able to bunker without being stated for it, and have high mobility? Not only is there attack speed being slow untrue, it makes them good in pretty much every category which is not proper balance. Have another look at cast times for their abilities and compare it to other classes, necro for instance.

Cant really comment on the warrior vs thief bit, its a match up I rarely see in a 1v1 situation. But to know if one is overtuned would require a understanding on how much effort is being thrown out to negate attacks as well as achieve high damage. From my experience, both are clearly overtuned given there kits and knowing what they have to sacrifice in order to attain their numbers. Thief obviously gives up more but is covered by stealth, a mechanic that sees little counter. While warrior gives up little to obtain much more.

When it comes to full health backstab, yes it has always been possible to pull off insane damage for the effort required (not much), and to say it hasnt changed over the years to become easier to pull off is false. Malicious backstab says hi. The issue with just saying to play optimal is, even when people do use optimal builds, it doesnt help when you are being oneshotted. Even if you survive the inital backstab unless you have lightning refleces(not the skill) you may not be able to react fast enough to counter the initial extra autos being laid into you. Which is why I see it as being overtuned. Backstab would be healthier for the game is it took a percentage of a targets health no further then 50% as it still allows counterplay but puts the one who has been hit at a disadvantage. Which makes it less of a l2p issue and more of a design failure. Less damage boost needs to be added into this game as more, get rid of passive damage boost that lies in traits if buffs to base damage of abilities is going to be constantly tuned.

[bq pd.2148]

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

the good thing is you keep putting up warrior as a strong class for 1 vs 1, wich makes it easy for me to just see all your post as l2p issue. warrior has the most telegraphed offense of all classes, wich means their damage is the easiest to avoid. wich also means balance wise they need a ton of defense and when they hit they need to hit hard. else they will be a free kill. but when a warrior faces someone that doesnt understand his defense mechanics and is unable to avoid his offense, yeah then they very easily appear overtuned. 'warriors offense is not slow' any other class has instant or near instant attacks , yet warrior is not slow ? warrior has some instant shout oh yeah 'Fear Me!' will certainly keep the opponent from using a stunbreak before your next hit connects.the issue with overtuned or not is for a given task the optimal build depends on player skill level. in a noob vs noob fight a warrior will win against a thief in most tries. yet if both are decent players the thief will win in at least 9/10 tries in a 1 vs 1 in WvW. so on low skill level the warrior is better in 1 vs 1 , on higher skill level thief. yet does that mean they are overtuned on either skill level ? or is it just that you can just play any build in any situation while expecting optimal results? a good warrior might be better in 1 vs 5 against 5 noobs than a good thief, because the thief will have issues stomping. but that thief might be better in 1 vs 2 against a little above average players were the warrior will just get destroyed. it allways depends on what you face.ultimately if we talking really good players that are aware of like most every mechanics in the game and dont just KNOW them but USE them and are prepared for them, then it is impossible to win a 1 vs 3, nearly impossible to win a 1 vs 2 and 1 vs 1 depend on build and envoirement, yet the thief is the only one that can pick all his fights and this ability should make it impossible to lose any 1 vs 1, they might not win em all but they shouldnt be losing any either. this is the very reason a thief is and has allways been the single one optimal solo roamer. and yes people still roam on other classes but that is mostly due to opponents that are terribly bad and way below their skill level.

a full health backstab to rather squishy targets has allways been possible , that has nothing to do with changes. the changes just made it more efficient to play for one single higher burst because people will chain too many active defenses, coupled with boos, damage mitigation/cleanses and heals wich makes sustained damage rather weak in comparison. its easier to get away with a oneshot attempt than it would be if you build for so high sustained damage that you can wear them down, that just requires alot more sustain on your part aswell and thieves still have no bruiser option.but what makes a thief running around onehitting squishy solo roamers overtuned in the context of the WvW mode? if everyone would play optimal, these thieves would only kill each other. because noone else would be a viable target, as they wouldnt run around solo and thief has probably the biggest issues of all classes to finish an opponent in an outnumbered fight. againt a group with 2 good supporters and the rest potatoes for example, the only chance for me to kill someone is to kill them with downed penalty, wich requires them to be terribly bad because dying 4 times within 1 minute while being supported is hard. with 1 good supporter, killing them first often works. same with people being able to put up decent pressure, i need to kill them first because they wont let me finish anyone else. the good thing is, in many outnumbered fights there is at most 1 rather decent opponent so it still works to fight them as a thief, but if people would l2p..well then we would only win 1 vs 1 maybe 1 vs 2.

So because a warrior has less instant cast then others and (more telegraphed attacks) which is odd because many of the abilities in this game are pretty readable when they require a target, they deserve to be able to have massive cleave damage, be able to bunker without being stated for it, and have high mobility? Not only is there attack speed being slow untrue, it makes them good in pretty much every category which is not proper balance. Have another look at cast times for their abilities and compare it to other classes, necro for instance.

Cant really comment on the warrior vs thief bit, its a match up I rarely see in a 1v1 situation. But to know if one is overtuned would require a understanding on how much effort is being thrown out to negate attacks as well as achieve high damage. From my experience, both are clearly overtuned given there kits and knowing what they have to sacrifice in order to attain their numbers. Thief obviously gives up more but is covered by stealth, a mechanic that sees little counter. While warrior gives up little to obtain much more.

When it comes to full health backstab, yes it has always been possible to pull off insane damage for the effort required (not much), and to say it hasnt changed over the years to become easier to pull off is false. Malicious backstab says hi. The issue with just saying to play optimal is, even when people do use optimal builds, it doesnt help when you are being oneshotted. Even if you survive the inital backstab unless you have lightning refleces(not the skill) you may not be able to react fast enough to counter the initial extra autos being laid into you. Which is why I see it as being overtuned. Backstab would be healthier for the game is it took a percentage of a targets health no further then 50% as it still allows counterplay but puts the one who has been hit at a disadvantage. Which makes it less of a l2p issue and more of a design failure. Less damage boost needs to be added into this game as more, get rid of passive damage boost that lies in traits if buffs to base damage of abilities is going to be constantly tuned.

when two good players face each other, then only possibilities matter. if a warrior is not able to land any hit because they can all be avoided as they are too telegraphed => warrior is weak. no matter if his hits would completely delte your account when they hit, if they simply dont hit. reliability is much more important or you could say the warrior has to put in more effort to make any of his hits actually land.

malicious backstab doesnt really hit for much more as an opener.how can you claim to run an optimlal build if you go into a mode expecting to get oneshot without any tell any moment and no means to avoid it?if it only takes max 50% how does the thief get the sustain and resources to keep up the pressure?

sry man but you clearly still need to learn alot more and optimise your play or accept lower efficency if you enjoy an inefficient playtyle. i can run solo choose what i see fit for it and do very well. i can choose something for large scale that i know is good and do well. you choose something weird , dont do well and the game is at fault not you - somthing is off there. you cant expect the game to make everything optimal at everything.

[iKeostuKen.2738]

@MUDse.7623 said:

effort you have to put in for anything is irrelevant when two good players face each other, then only possibilities matter. if a warrior is not able to land any hit because they can all be avoided as they are too telegraphed => warrior is weak. no matter if his hits would completely delte your account when they hit, if they simply dont hit.

malicious backstab doesnt really hit for much more as an opener.how can you claim to run an optimlal build if you go into a mode expecting to get oneshot without any tell any moment and no means to avoid it?if it only takes max 50% how does the thief get the sustain and resources to keep up the pressure?

sry man but you clearly still need to learn alot more and optimise your play or accept lower efficency if you enjoy an inefficient playtyle. i can run solo choose what i see fit for it and do very well. i can choose something for large scale that i know is good and do well. you choose something weird , dont do well and the game is at fault not you - somthing is off there. you cant expect the game to make everything optimal at everything.

Um no? Effort needs to be on equal terms for achieving certain results. If class A is blowing through rotations and cooldowns, but class B only needs to use 1 rotation of abilities and achieves much higher damage then thats clearly not balanced.

Not as a initial opener no but malice is also not needed to achieve the high damage, its just made easier when you have it. But as said before, stealth isnt a balanced mechanic interms of risk, when a thief hits stealth and your marked it becomes a guessing game with you entirely on the defensive unaware of its location and it still has access to teleports. It would be fair if there was counterplay to this but as it is now, it isnt exactly what id call a good spot in the game. It keeps up pressure with daze/ constant crits and blinds.

I kind of find it ironic how its a l2p issue for me when your saying classes need these cheesy mechanics and overtuned imbalances to be able to not be free kills or be optimal in the game, which is clearly untrue if the game was better balanced and designed.

[bq pd.2148]

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

effort you have to put in for anything is irrelevant when two good players face each other, then only possibilities matter. if a warrior is not able to land any hit because they can all be avoided as they are too telegraphed => warrior is weak. no matter if his hits would completely delte your account when they hit, if they simply dont hit.

malicious backstab doesnt really hit for much more as an opener.how can you claim to run an optimlal build if you go into a mode expecting to get oneshot without any tell any moment and no means to avoid it?if it only takes max 50% how does the thief get the sustain and resources to keep up the pressure?

sry man but you clearly still need to learn alot more and optimise your play or accept lower efficency if you enjoy an inefficient playtyle. i can run solo choose what i see fit for it and do very well. i can choose something for large scale that i know is good and do well. you choose something weird , dont do well and the game is at fault not you - somthing is off there. you cant expect the game to make everything optimal at everything.

Um no? Effort needs to be on equal terms for achieving certain results. If class A is blowing through rotations and cooldowns, but class B only needs to use 1 rotation of abilities and achieves much higher damage then thats clearly not balanced.

Not as a initial opener no but malice is also not needed to achieve the high damage, its just made easier when you have it. But as said before, stealth isnt a balanced mechanic interms of risk, when a thief hits stealth and your marked it becomes a guessing game with you entirely on the defensive unaware of its location and it still has access to teleports. It would be fair if there was counterplay to this but as it is now, it isnt exactly what id call a good spot in the game. It keeps up pressure with daze/ constant crits and blinds.

I kind of find it ironic how its a l2p issue for me when your saying classes need these cheesy mechanics and overtuned imbalances to be able to not be free kills or be optimal in the game, which is clearly untrue if the game was better balanced and designed.

îf i press 1 button to deal 10k damage with a huge tell or i press 5 buttons with 2k each with instant damage. then pressing 5 buttons is more effort. against a bad opponet i will hit 10k regardless, against a good opponent 5x2k instant damage is way better than 1x 10k slow damage.

if it is not an initial opener, then it is not out of nowhere and you have time to do something. like counterplay the buildup - oh whait cant expect that of one that expects to dodge the pull part of the DH f1 instead of the spear. thats basically the same.

it is a l2p issue because you expect anything goes without understanding that as soon as there is options there is allways better and worse options. no matter how much the difference is, when 2 good players face each other and both play perfect the better option will win.there is a ton of people here who think that their build should be the meta and anything stronger in a given scenario is 'unfair', unbalanced, gimmicky, cheesy and what not. thats not how it works, because players wont agree to one thing that is optimal.i for instance dont like that stacking numbers is so incredibly powerful in this game and i mostly die because i refuse to accept that my opponents just stacked more numbers than i can deal with. but do you see me opening threads that local numbers in a fight should be balanced. like i should have the same chance in a 1 vs 40 that i have in a 1 vs 1 ? no, i just deal with it and try to avoid too large groups. thats the game.

click in my signature on the link , open chapter 'Introducing...the Scrub' thats pretty much the description of your way playing this game and why it is not successfull.

[shiri.4257]

I'm linked with DB, we are not outnumbered or outmanned. just alot of inexperienced commanders and players. Most the wvwers believe they are the center of a living story in wvw. Bring whatever gear they want, dodge whenever they want, throw any attacks and be held on a pedestal like their LS counterparts. It's casual, it's easy, can be fun, can be frustrating.

[iKeostuKen.2738]

@MUDse.7623 said:

îf i press 1 button to deal 10k damage with a huge tell or i press 5 buttons with 2k each with instant damage. then pressing 5 buttons is more effort. against a bad opponet i will hit 10k regardless, against a good opponent 5x2k instant damage is way better than 1x 10k slow damage.

if it is not an initial opener, then it is not out of nowhere and you have time to do something. like counterplay the buildup - oh whait cant expect that of one that expects to dodge the pull part of the DH f1 instead of the spear. thats basically the same.

it is a l2p issue because you expect anything goes without understanding that as soon as there is options there is allways better and worse options. no matter how much the difference is, when 2 good players face each other and both play perfect the better option will win.there is a ton of people here who think that their build should be the meta and anything stronger in a given scenario is 'unfair', unbalanced, gimmicky, cheesy and what not. thats not how it works, because players wont agree to one thing that is optimal.i for instance dont like that stacking numbers is so incredibly powerful in this game and i mostly die because i refuse to accept that my opponents just stacked more numbers than i can deal with. but do you see me opening threads that local numbers in a fight should be balanced. like i should have the same chance in a 1 vs 40 that i have in a 1 vs 1 ? no, i just deal with it and try to avoid too large groups. thats the game.

click in my signature on the link , open chapter 'Introducing...the Scrub' thats pretty much the description of your way playing this game and why it is not successfull.

Sadly thats not the case because a warrior can push out attacks at a pretty fast speed so this slow damage variable you keep throwing out there is useless.

The point is, its not needed because the damage is already overtuned. The fact that there is a way to even increase this is exactly what im talking about, its not needed and only solidifies more damage less problems philosophy the devs are pushing. If you can oneshot someone with a normal backstab then why is there a seperate ability that increases its damage.

Never have i stated that I expect to win any scenario im in. I made this thread on how bad balance is in this game when classes are constantly overtuned to the point where something thats not equally as broken barely stands a chance to deal with what is and would be globally considered horrible balance. With addition to why classes shouldnt have abilities on defeating a core mechanic in this game, dodging. While I understand that dodging the spear is the main issue, when there are times where you do dodge it and it still hits you because of how a server registers your actions, then its still an issue on design and not on learning to play the game. Same with being hit during what is visually shown as a dodge / evasion. Mesmers dont have this problem luckily which is why I dont understand why other abilities do have this problem.

[shiri.4257]

Do you record raw footage of your game play? Are you in a respectable spvp rank? Are you in a wvw guild that requires coms, specific builds, certain type of game play? Back when I was young, wvwers used to record and review game play versus chatturbating on forums.

[iKeostuKen.2738]

No, I havent SPvPd seriously since HoT and back then it was mostly just theorycrafting builds and combos, nope I dont get on coms as I prefer music over hearing someone scream commands 20 times.

[shiri.4257]

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:No, I havent SPvPd seriously since HoT and back then it was mostly just theorycrafting builds and combos, nope I dont get on coms as I prefer music over hearing someone scream commands 20 times.

oic. you're a theorycrafter... that explains alot. has it ever occurred to you that your theories don't work?

[bq pd.2148]

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

îf i press 1 button to deal 10k damage with a huge tell or i press 5 buttons with 2k each with instant damage. then pressing 5 buttons is more effort. against a bad opponet i will hit 10k regardless, against a good opponent 5x2k instant damage is way better than 1x 10k slow damage.

if it is not an initial opener, then it is not out of nowhere and you have time to do something. like counterplay the buildup - oh whait cant expect that of one that expects to dodge the pull part of the DH f1 instead of the spear. thats basically the same.

it is a l2p issue because you expect anything goes without understanding that as soon as there is options there is allways better and worse options. no matter how much the difference is, when 2 good players face each other and both play perfect the better option will win.there is a ton of people here who think that their build should be the meta and anything stronger in a given scenario is 'unfair', unbalanced, gimmicky, cheesy and what not. thats not how it works, because players wont agree to one thing that is optimal.i for instance dont like that stacking numbers is so incredibly powerful in this game and i mostly die because i refuse to accept that my opponents just stacked more numbers than i can deal with. but do you see me opening threads that local numbers in a fight should be balanced. like i should have the same chance in a 1 vs 40 that i have in a 1 vs 1 ? no, i just deal with it and try to avoid too large groups. thats the game.

click in my signature on the link , open chapter 'Introducing...the Scrub' thats pretty much the description of your way playing this game and why it is not successfull.

Sadly thats not the case because a warrior can push out attacks at a pretty fast speed so this slow damage variable you keep throwing out there is useless.

The point is, its not needed because the damage is already overtuned. The fact that there is a way to even increase this is exactly what im talking about, its not needed and only solidifies more damage less problems philosophy the devs are pushing. If you can oneshot someone with a normal backstab then why is there a seperate ability that increases its damage.

Never have i stated that I expect to win any scenario im in. I made this thread on how bad balance is in this game when classes are constantly overtuned to the point where something thats not equally as broken barely stands a chance to deal with what is and would be globally considered horrible balance. With addition to why classes shouldnt have abilities on defeating a core mechanic in this game, dodging. While I understand that dodging the spear is the main issue, when there are times where you do dodge it and it still hits you because of how a server registers your actions, then its still an issue on design and not on learning to play the game. Same with being hit during what is visually shown as a dodge / evasion. Mesmers dont have this problem luckily which is why I dont understand why other abilities do have this problem.

ok. for me a warrior hits very slow and they rarely hit me in a 1 vs 1. if they hit you fast thats fine for me.

the damage is overtuned - why? because you can kill a squishy with 1 hit ? if i kill a glass ele with 1 hit, that same hit wont tickle a bunker guard at all.what kind of damage is appropriate? and how are we going to kill defensive builds without the damage we have?

you dont expect to win but stand a chance? were is the difference? if the game is not based on luck then having a 'chance' means you win. if you know wich part of your attack is an evade and wich part is not , then you can avoid attacks with them. if you know wich part of your opponents attack is an evade and wich is not, you can apply damage/CC to them. as for core mechanics , stealth is also a core mechanic and there is revealed - how rude. there are counters to every mechanic except invuln wich is very limited and prevents capture point holding so it is punished by the mode itself.

[iKeostuKen.2738]

@shiri.4257 said:

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:No, I havent SPvPd seriously since HoT and back then it was mostly just theorycrafting builds and combos, nope I dont get on coms as I prefer music over hearing someone scream commands 20 times.

oic. you're a theorycrafter... that explains alot. has it ever occurred to you that your theories don't work?

Oh my, no need to put your big boy pants on now. Understand that I said HoT, not PoF. Completely different game now as you may know.

[iKeostuKen.2738]

@MUDse.7623 said:

ok. for me a warrior hits very slow and they rarely hit me in a 1 vs 1. if they hit you fast thats fine for me.

the damage is overtuned - why? because you can kill a squishy with 1 hit ? if i kill a glass ele with 1 hit, that same hit wont tickle a bunker guard at all.what kind of damage is appropriate? and how are we going to kill defensive builds without the damage we have?

you dont expect to win but stand a chance? were is the difference? if the game is not based on luck then having a 'chance' means you win. if you know wich part of your attack is an evade and wich part is not , then you can avoid attacks with them. if you know wich part of your opponents attack is an evade and wich is not, you can apply damage/CC to them. as for core mechanics , stealth is also a core mechanic and there is revealed - how rude. there are counters to every mechanic except invuln wich is very limited and prevents captur point holding so it is ounished by the mode itself.

Thats fine, if were talking about very slow attacks im sure many would agree that gaurdian hammer or necro staff would be considered slow.

Thats not really a good reason to overtune damage. If bunker specs were unkillable you tone down defensive capabilities. And no it wouldnt tickle a gaurdian, unless they have a upkeep of protection.

Having a chance means your able to put up a fight and come very close to winning, sometimes luck is a factor on sigil procs and hoping terrain plays in your favor of using nav mesh and projectile pathing against your opponent. I wouldnt really call stealth a core mechanic on the scale of dodge, everyone can dodge, not everyone can stealth. And while there is revealed, anet took it upon themselves to add a ability to remove revealed.

[shiri.4257]

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:

@shiri.4257 said:

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:No, I havent SPvPd seriously since HoT and back then it was mostly just theorycrafting builds and combos, nope I dont get on coms as I prefer music over hearing someone scream commands 20 times.

oic. you're a theorycrafter... that explains alot. has it ever occurred to you that your theories don't work?

Oh my, no need to put your big boy pants on now. Understand that I said HoT, not PoF. Completely different game now as you may know.

Actually. I take my big boy pants off when I raid. it helps with the sweat. But for the most part, I've come to an understanding that there are far superior players and more qualified theorycrafters on metabattle. I just make some slight adjustments for the situation and guild composition. Why would you theorycraft for HoT? That was more stale than POF.

The difference is I am able to admit, perhaps my bright ideas aren't so bright after all.

[iKeostuKen.2738]

@shiri.4257 said:

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:

@shiri.4257 said:

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:No, I havent SPvPd seriously since HoT and back then it was mostly just theorycrafting builds and combos, nope I dont get on coms as I prefer music over hearing someone scream commands 20 times.

oic. you're a theorycrafter... that explains alot. has it ever occurred to you that your theories don't work?

Oh my, no need to put your big boy pants on now. Understand that I said HoT, not PoF. Completely different game now as you may know.

Actually. I take my big boy pants off when I raid. it helps with the sweat. But for the most part, I've come to an understanding that there are far superior players and more qualified theorycrafters on metabattle. I just make some slight adjustments for the situation and guild composition. Why would you theorycraft for HoT? That was more stale than POF.

The difference is I am able to admit, perhaps my bright ideas aren't so bright after all.

Well for one I never said my builds were the best. I never went for making what was meta, I went for what was able to work and fun to play with for myself. When it came to theorycrafting for HoT it was more of when elite specs first released, I quit for a extended period of time soon after for how overpowered and uninteresting the gameplay was becoming at that time. I may not be the best theorycrafter, nor have I tried to be but I atleast know when balance and design are in a crappy state. I play as long as the game is fun and when that enjoyment starts to vanish I go on another break to try it again within the few months to see if things have gotten better. Doing this a few times its only been getting worse.

[shiri.4257]

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:I went for what was able to work and fun to play with for myself.

There lies the problem.

[iKeostuKen.2738]

@shiri.4257 said:

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:I went for what was able to work and fun to play with for myself.

There lies the problem.

¯_(ツ)_/¯ If you think thats a problem then I dont know what to tell you. I mean it was Pre HoT - HoT era SPvP stuff. Meta mentality players I guess.

[Voltekka.2375]

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:

@shiri.4257 said:

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:I went for what was able to work and fun to play with for myself.

There lies the problem.

¯_(ツ)_/¯ If you think thats a problem then I dont know what to tell you. I mean it was Pre HoT - HoT era SPvP stuff. Meta mentality players I guess.

Yet, you cant expect your "fun and working build" to be better than someone's "working and meta" build. I dont care about meta most of the times in wvw roaming, and sometimes I get my kitten kicked from better players, and it is fine.

[iKeostuKen.2738]

@Voltekka.2375 said:

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:

@shiri.4257 said:

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:I went for what was able to work and fun to play with for myself.

There lies the problem.

¯_(ツ)_/¯ If you think thats a problem then I dont know what to tell you. I mean it was Pre HoT - HoT era SPvP stuff. Meta mentality players I guess.

Yet, you cant expect your "fun and working build" to be better than someone's "working and meta" build. I dont care about meta most of the times in wvw roaming, and sometimes I get my kitten kicked from better players, and it is fine.

Mmm ok, but this thread has nothing to do with the builds I used to use a long time ago and more about the current condition of PvP. Not really understanding where those dots connect to how i used to play being how the design in the game to this day has only been getting worse.