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OutOfOrder.3719

By OutOfOrder.3719
in Player vs. Player

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sephiroth.4217

sephiroth.4217

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@Etheri.5406 said:

@"Abazigal.3679" said:I think the wintrader argument gets overused and probably on the wrong end. Let's be honest, Etheri is right, these players still have the level to be plat 2-3 at least and there aren't many wintraders in each zone. Furthermore, i'm pretty sure most of them did " buy " 1 or 2 matchs to get their objective rating and that's it.

I don't believe at all titles are removed because of wintraders. Probably only because of DuoQ, in order to avoid unfairness from time to time ( i.e DuoQ at 3 am against poor opponents and get free rating )

Before the first banwave, there were guilds which would very regularly wintrade. Won't mention them but most high end EU players know who, what, where. Wasn't exactly a secret nor uncommon. Nowadays not so much.

But all of those players are still top-end EU PvP players. Not random low plat scrubs magically getting god of pvp. I'm sure some players traded quite a lot of games- but they still had to be top 100 to top 250 material to even breach into top 5.

All I'm reading from you guys is that it's ok to win trade if you're top 100...

At no point did I say that.

What I said is it's ridiculous howmany players pretend anyone can just wintrade their way to any title and skill doesn't exist. Sure - titles aren't strictly representative of skill - but most players got them FAIRLY and even many wintrading players are vastly, vastly better than everyone here whining about how none of it matters because what... 20 players wintraded? lul.

If you're not in top 250, wintrade doesn't matter much to you, does it? If you're not top 250, you won't be able to wintrade into top 50 much less top 10 either. And if you wanna wintrade into top 250 - be my guest. It's not that simple, because there's a lot more players playing there, to wintrade up consistently. Yet it's actually kitten easy to achieve by ... PLAYING THE GAME.

Wintrade is BAD. Pretending wintrade makes all competitiveness irrelevant is also BAD. Most players are NOT affected by wintrade at all, but rather use it as an excuse for their own rating / them not caring / yada yada.

Win trading happens at all ranks though? I know it does in high gold anyway.

I'm sure there are a lot of players who reached their goals fairly, but we're all aware of the banwaves against numerous players too....

This is just the same thing as the WvW kills title, some rare people earn it fairly then a few servers went to the OS and farmed each other freely for the title making the other people who earn their title invalid to the whole community.Terrorism gets the same sort of outlook, 1 bad apple and they're all bad, it's natural for humans to think this way... You sort have to live with it now thanks to those who soiled it for you.

Nobody that "farmed OS" for ultimate dominator got more than 10% progress on it. I doubt people even got more than 5%. Everyone that has ultimate dominator got it "fairly" by grinding ;). And by the way, I got that one too :trollface:

Sure, some players will pretend people "farmed" ultimate dominator - just like you'll pretend wintrading is something that happens in gold - but in reality the community is just making up excuses that hold no rational sense. I'm sure wintrading is super common in gold :trollface:

Yes - it happens. And then players pretend that instantly means everyone that has it just got it 100% unfairly and it means nothing! And both the players trying to make progress unfairly, as the ones that pretend it suddenly means nothing anymore are ...wrong?

But really, do you think "wintrade" is something common or relevant for high gold players? MonkaS.

Just because you didn't know anyone who farmed the title means no one farmed the title....

If you can't understand the point to my original post, then there's nothing more to discuss.

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Etheri.5406

Etheri.5406

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@sephiroth.4217 said:

@"Abazigal.3679" said:I think the wintrader argument gets overused and probably on the wrong end. Let's be honest, Etheri is right, these players still have the level to be plat 2-3 at least and there aren't many wintraders in each zone. Furthermore, i'm pretty sure most of them did " buy " 1 or 2 matchs to get their objective rating and that's it.

I don't believe at all titles are removed because of wintraders. Probably only because of DuoQ, in order to avoid unfairness from time to time ( i.e DuoQ at 3 am against poor opponents and get free rating )

Before the first banwave, there were guilds which would very regularly wintrade. Won't mention them but most high end EU players know who, what, where. Wasn't exactly a secret nor uncommon. Nowadays not so much.

But all of those players are still top-end EU PvP players. Not random low plat scrubs magically getting god of pvp. I'm sure some players traded quite a lot of games- but they still had to be top 100 to top 250 material to even breach into top 5.

All I'm reading from you guys is that it's ok to win trade if you're top 100...

At no point did I say that.

What I said is it's ridiculous howmany players pretend anyone can just wintrade their way to any title and skill doesn't exist. Sure - titles aren't strictly representative of skill - but most players got them FAIRLY and even many wintrading players are vastly, vastly better than everyone here whining about how none of it matters because what... 20 players wintraded? lul.

If you're not in top 250, wintrade doesn't matter much to you, does it? If you're not top 250, you won't be able to wintrade into top 50 much less top 10 either. And if you wanna wintrade into top 250 - be my guest. It's not that simple, because there's a lot more players playing there, to wintrade up consistently. Yet it's actually kitten easy to achieve by ... PLAYING THE GAME.

Wintrade is BAD. Pretending wintrade makes all competitiveness irrelevant is also BAD. Most players are NOT affected by wintrade at all, but rather use it as an excuse for their own rating / them not caring / yada yada.

Win trading happens at all ranks though? I know it does in high gold anyway.

I'm sure there are a lot of players who reached their goals fairly, but we're all aware of the banwaves against numerous players too....

This is just the same thing as the WvW kills title, some rare people earn it fairly then a few servers went to the OS and farmed each other freely for the title making the other people who earn their title invalid to the whole community.Terrorism gets the same sort of outlook, 1 bad apple and they're all bad, it's natural for humans to think this way... You sort have to live with it now thanks to those who soiled it for you.

Nobody that "farmed OS" for ultimate dominator got more than 10% progress on it. I doubt people even got more than 5%. Everyone that has ultimate dominator got it "fairly" by grinding ;). And by the way, I got that one too :trollface:

Sure, some players will pretend people "farmed" ultimate dominator - just like you'll pretend wintrading is something that happens in gold - but in reality the community is just making up excuses that hold no rational sense. I'm sure wintrading is super common in gold :trollface:

Yes - it happens. And then players pretend that instantly means everyone that has it just got it 100% unfairly and it means nothing! And both the players trying to make progress unfairly, as the ones that pretend it suddenly means nothing anymore are ...wrong?

But really, do you think "wintrade" is something common or relevant for high gold players? MonkaS.

Look I get your opinion, but it's just your opinion. Just because you didn't know anyone who farmed the title means no one farmed the title.... Reality is, that it happened.

If you can't understand the point to my original post, then there's nothing more to discuss.

I do know which accounts got God of pvp unfairly in EU. Which is exactly why I'm calling most of you out on your bullshit. Gold tier players going "anyone can get it" when even with 50k gold and wintrading they wouldn't get anywhere near. And the amount of games I've seen wintraded in high gold? 0.

So the reality is, titles being irrelevant is a popular OPINION. And frequently used as an excuse to invalidate any correlation between titles and skill while... 99% of the game can't even wintrade their way to a relevant title. I am not -anywhere- saying it's OK or fine to wintrade. I am saying that even to wintrade, you need a vastly higher skill than what is discussed or portrayed on these forums.

Your original post was trying to pull part of mine out of context and then still misinterpreting it :neutral:

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sephiroth.4217

sephiroth.4217

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@Etheri.5406 said:

@"Abazigal.3679" said:I think the wintrader argument gets overused and probably on the wrong end. Let's be honest, Etheri is right, these players still have the level to be plat 2-3 at least and there aren't many wintraders in each zone. Furthermore, i'm pretty sure most of them did " buy " 1 or 2 matchs to get their objective rating and that's it.

I don't believe at all titles are removed because of wintraders. Probably only because of DuoQ, in order to avoid unfairness from time to time ( i.e DuoQ at 3 am against poor opponents and get free rating )

Before the first banwave, there were guilds which would very regularly wintrade. Won't mention them but most high end EU players know who, what, where. Wasn't exactly a secret nor uncommon. Nowadays not so much.

But all of those players are still top-end EU PvP players. Not random low plat scrubs magically getting god of pvp. I'm sure some players traded quite a lot of games- but they still had to be top 100 to top 250 material to even breach into top 5.

All I'm reading from you guys is that it's ok to win trade if you're top 100...

At no point did I say that.

What I said is it's ridiculous howmany players pretend anyone can just wintrade their way to any title and skill doesn't exist. Sure - titles aren't strictly representative of skill - but most players got them FAIRLY and even many wintrading players are vastly, vastly better than everyone here whining about how none of it matters because what... 20 players wintraded? lul.

If you're not in top 250, wintrade doesn't matter much to you, does it? If you're not top 250, you won't be able to wintrade into top 50 much less top 10 either. And if you wanna wintrade into top 250 - be my guest. It's not that simple, because there's a lot more players playing there, to wintrade up consistently. Yet it's actually kitten easy to achieve by ... PLAYING THE GAME.

Wintrade is BAD. Pretending wintrade makes all competitiveness irrelevant is also BAD. Most players are NOT affected by wintrade at all, but rather use it as an excuse for their own rating / them not caring / yada yada.

Win trading happens at all ranks though? I know it does in high gold anyway.

I'm sure there are a lot of players who reached their goals fairly, but we're all aware of the banwaves against numerous players too....

This is just the same thing as the WvW kills title, some rare people earn it fairly then a few servers went to the OS and farmed each other freely for the title making the other people who earn their title invalid to the whole community.Terrorism gets the same sort of outlook, 1 bad apple and they're all bad, it's natural for humans to think this way... You sort have to live with it now thanks to those who soiled it for you.

Nobody that "farmed OS" for ultimate dominator got more than 10% progress on it. I doubt people even got more than 5%. Everyone that has ultimate dominator got it "fairly" by grinding ;). And by the way, I got that one too :trollface:

Sure, some players will pretend people "farmed" ultimate dominator - just like you'll pretend wintrading is something that happens in gold - but in reality the community is just making up excuses that hold no rational sense. I'm sure wintrading is super common in gold :trollface:

Yes - it happens. And then players pretend that instantly means everyone that has it just got it 100% unfairly and it means nothing! And both the players trying to make progress unfairly, as the ones that pretend it suddenly means nothing anymore are ...wrong?

But really, do you think "wintrade" is something common or relevant for high gold players? MonkaS.

Look I get your opinion, but it's just your opinion. Just because you didn't know anyone who farmed the title means no one farmed the title.... Reality is, that it happened.

If you can't understand the point to my original post, then there's nothing more to discuss.

I do know which accounts got God of pvp unfairly in EU. Which is exactly why I'm calling most of you out on your kitten. Gold tier players going "anyone can get it" when even with 50k gold and wintrading they wouldn't get anywhere near. And the amount of games I've seen wintraded in high gold? 0.

So the reality is, titles being irrelevant is a popular OPINION. And frequently used as an excuse to invalidate any correlation between titles and skill while... 99% of the game can't even wintrade their way to a relevant title. I am not -anywhere- saying it's OK or fine to wintrade. I am saying that even to wintrade, you need a vastly higher skill than what is discussed or portrayed on these forums.

Your original post was trying to pull part of mine out of context and then still misinterpreting it :neutral:

No one is picking apart your post and taking it out of context.I gave you logical reasoning as to why some might not care about titles or view them negatively.

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Etheri.5406

Etheri.5406

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@sephiroth.4217 said:

@"Abazigal.3679" said:I think the wintrader argument gets overused and probably on the wrong end. Let's be honest, Etheri is right, these players still have the level to be plat 2-3 at least and there aren't many wintraders in each zone. Furthermore, i'm pretty sure most of them did " buy " 1 or 2 matchs to get their objective rating and that's it.

I don't believe at all titles are removed because of wintraders. Probably only because of DuoQ, in order to avoid unfairness from time to time ( i.e DuoQ at 3 am against poor opponents and get free rating )

Before the first banwave, there were guilds which would very regularly wintrade. Won't mention them but most high end EU players know who, what, where. Wasn't exactly a secret nor uncommon. Nowadays not so much.

But all of those players are still top-end EU PvP players. Not random low plat scrubs magically getting god of pvp. I'm sure some players traded quite a lot of games- but they still had to be top 100 to top 250 material to even breach into top 5.

All I'm reading from you guys is that it's ok to win trade if you're top 100...

At no point did I say that.

What I said is it's ridiculous howmany players pretend anyone can just wintrade their way to any title and skill doesn't exist. Sure - titles aren't strictly representative of skill - but most players got them FAIRLY and even many wintrading players are vastly, vastly better than everyone here whining about how none of it matters because what... 20 players wintraded? lul.

If you're not in top 250, wintrade doesn't matter much to you, does it? If you're not top 250, you won't be able to wintrade into top 50 much less top 10 either. And if you wanna wintrade into top 250 - be my guest. It's not that simple, because there's a lot more players playing there, to wintrade up consistently. Yet it's actually kitten easy to achieve by ... PLAYING THE GAME.

Wintrade is BAD. Pretending wintrade makes all competitiveness irrelevant is also BAD. Most players are NOT affected by wintrade at all, but rather use it as an excuse for their own rating / them not caring / yada yada.

Win trading happens at all ranks though? I know it does in high gold anyway.

I'm sure there are a lot of players who reached their goals fairly, but we're all aware of the banwaves against numerous players too....

This is just the same thing as the WvW kills title, some rare people earn it fairly then a few servers went to the OS and farmed each other freely for the title making the other people who earn their title invalid to the whole community.Terrorism gets the same sort of outlook, 1 bad apple and they're all bad, it's natural for humans to think this way... You sort have to live with it now thanks to those who soiled it for you.

Nobody that "farmed OS" for ultimate dominator got more than 10% progress on it. I doubt people even got more than 5%. Everyone that has ultimate dominator got it "fairly" by grinding ;). And by the way, I got that one too :trollface:

Sure, some players will pretend people "farmed" ultimate dominator - just like you'll pretend wintrading is something that happens in gold - but in reality the community is just making up excuses that hold no rational sense. I'm sure wintrading is super common in gold :trollface:

Yes - it happens. And then players pretend that instantly means everyone that has it just got it 100% unfairly and it means nothing! And both the players trying to make progress unfairly, as the ones that pretend it suddenly means nothing anymore are ...wrong?

But really, do you think "wintrade" is something common or relevant for high gold players? MonkaS.

Look I get your opinion, but it's just your opinion. Just because you didn't know anyone who farmed the title means no one farmed the title.... Reality is, that it happened.

If you can't understand the point to my original post, then there's nothing more to discuss.

I do know which accounts got God of pvp unfairly in EU. Which is exactly why I'm calling most of you out on your kitten. Gold tier players going "anyone can get it" when even with 50k gold and wintrading they wouldn't get anywhere near. And the amount of games I've seen wintraded in high gold? 0.

So the reality is, titles being irrelevant is a popular OPINION. And frequently used as an excuse to invalidate any correlation between titles and skill while... 99% of the game can't even wintrade their way to a relevant title. I am not -anywhere- saying it's OK or fine to wintrade. I am saying that even to wintrade, you need a vastly higher skill than what is discussed or portrayed on these forums.

Your original post was trying to pull part of mine out of context and then still misinterpreting it :neutral:

No one is picking apart your post and taking it out of context.I gave you logical reasoning as to why some might not care about titles or view them negatively.

Your first reply was "it sounds like you find it OK for top 100 playres to wintrade". After you started talking about low-rated players also experiencing wintrade. Maybe this is a thing in NA, but in EU I'm yet to encounter this. I also don't quite see a point.

Unless you're talking about gatekeeping or dropping rating to maintain sub 1.6k for duo.How exactly does wintrade in gold work? Please enlighten me. Also, what is the point of it?

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sephiroth.4217

sephiroth.4217

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@Etheri.5406 said:

@"Abazigal.3679" said:I think the wintrader argument gets overused and probably on the wrong end. Let's be honest, Etheri is right, these players still have the level to be plat 2-3 at least and there aren't many wintraders in each zone. Furthermore, i'm pretty sure most of them did " buy " 1 or 2 matchs to get their objective rating and that's it.

I don't believe at all titles are removed because of wintraders. Probably only because of DuoQ, in order to avoid unfairness from time to time ( i.e DuoQ at 3 am against poor opponents and get free rating )

Before the first banwave, there were guilds which would very regularly wintrade. Won't mention them but most high end EU players know who, what, where. Wasn't exactly a secret nor uncommon. Nowadays not so much.

But all of those players are still top-end EU PvP players. Not random low plat scrubs magically getting god of pvp. I'm sure some players traded quite a lot of games- but they still had to be top 100 to top 250 material to even breach into top 5.

All I'm reading from you guys is that it's ok to win trade if you're top 100...

At no point did I say that.

What I said is it's ridiculous howmany players pretend anyone can just wintrade their way to any title and skill doesn't exist. Sure - titles aren't strictly representative of skill - but most players got them FAIRLY and even many wintrading players are vastly, vastly better than everyone here whining about how none of it matters because what... 20 players wintraded? lul.

If you're not in top 250, wintrade doesn't matter much to you, does it? If you're not top 250, you won't be able to wintrade into top 50 much less top 10 either. And if you wanna wintrade into top 250 - be my guest. It's not that simple, because there's a lot more players playing there, to wintrade up consistently. Yet it's actually kitten easy to achieve by ... PLAYING THE GAME.

Wintrade is BAD. Pretending wintrade makes all competitiveness irrelevant is also BAD. Most players are NOT affected by wintrade at all, but rather use it as an excuse for their own rating / them not caring / yada yada.

Win trading happens at all ranks though? I know it does in high gold anyway.

I'm sure there are a lot of players who reached their goals fairly, but we're all aware of the banwaves against numerous players too....

This is just the same thing as the WvW kills title, some rare people earn it fairly then a few servers went to the OS and farmed each other freely for the title making the other people who earn their title invalid to the whole community.Terrorism gets the same sort of outlook, 1 bad apple and they're all bad, it's natural for humans to think this way... You sort have to live with it now thanks to those who soiled it for you.

Nobody that "farmed OS" for ultimate dominator got more than 10% progress on it. I doubt people even got more than 5%. Everyone that has ultimate dominator got it "fairly" by grinding ;). And by the way, I got that one too :trollface:

Sure, some players will pretend people "farmed" ultimate dominator - just like you'll pretend wintrading is something that happens in gold - but in reality the community is just making up excuses that hold no rational sense. I'm sure wintrading is super common in gold :trollface:

Yes - it happens. And then players pretend that instantly means everyone that has it just got it 100% unfairly and it means nothing! And both the players trying to make progress unfairly, as the ones that pretend it suddenly means nothing anymore are ...wrong?

But really, do you think "wintrade" is something common or relevant for high gold players? MonkaS.

Look I get your opinion, but it's just your opinion. Just because you didn't know anyone who farmed the title means no one farmed the title.... Reality is, that it happened.

If you can't understand the point to my original post, then there's nothing more to discuss.

I do know which accounts got God of pvp unfairly in EU. Which is exactly why I'm calling most of you out on your kitten. Gold tier players going "anyone can get it" when even with 50k gold and wintrading they wouldn't get anywhere near. And the amount of games I've seen wintraded in high gold? 0.

So the reality is, titles being irrelevant is a popular OPINION. And frequently used as an excuse to invalidate any correlation between titles and skill while... 99% of the game can't even wintrade their way to a relevant title. I am not -anywhere- saying it's OK or fine to wintrade. I am saying that even to wintrade, you need a vastly higher skill than what is discussed or portrayed on these forums.

Your original post was trying to pull part of mine out of context and then still misinterpreting it :neutral:

No one is picking apart your post and taking it out of context.I gave you logical reasoning as to why some might not care about titles or view them negatively.

Your first reply was "it sounds like you find it OK for top 100 playres to wintrade". After you started talking about low-rated players also experiencing wintrade. Maybe this is a thing in NA, but in EU I'm yet to encounter this. I also don't quite see a point.

Unless you're talking about gatekeeping or dropping rating to maintain sub 1.6k for duo.How exactly does wintrade in gold work? Please enlighten me. Also, what is the point of it?

Yes I posted that as I was confused as to what you guys was saying, sounded like it was ok to win trade in the top 100 because everyone else is too scrub.

If you're on EU, this would explain a lot to our perspective differences. (NA pop way lower than EU I hear)

Win trade in gold works the same as platinum I assume, you get offered gold by someone struggling to break platinum and you either take it or you don't.... Then you see them ranked 148 on the leaderboards a few days later, then you see them ranked top 100 at the end of the season.... By this stage you start to wonder.

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Etheri.5406

Etheri.5406

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@sephiroth.4217 said:

@"Abazigal.3679" said:I think the wintrader argument gets overused and probably on the wrong end. Let's be honest, Etheri is right, these players still have the level to be plat 2-3 at least and there aren't many wintraders in each zone. Furthermore, i'm pretty sure most of them did " buy " 1 or 2 matchs to get their objective rating and that's it.

I don't believe at all titles are removed because of wintraders. Probably only because of DuoQ, in order to avoid unfairness from time to time ( i.e DuoQ at 3 am against poor opponents and get free rating )

Before the first banwave, there were guilds which would very regularly wintrade. Won't mention them but most high end EU players know who, what, where. Wasn't exactly a secret nor uncommon. Nowadays not so much.

But all of those players are still top-end EU PvP players. Not random low plat scrubs magically getting god of pvp. I'm sure some players traded quite a lot of games- but they still had to be top 100 to top 250 material to even breach into top 5.

All I'm reading from you guys is that it's ok to win trade if you're top 100...

At no point did I say that.

What I said is it's ridiculous howmany players pretend anyone can just wintrade their way to any title and skill doesn't exist. Sure - titles aren't strictly representative of skill - but most players got them FAIRLY and even many wintrading players are vastly, vastly better than everyone here whining about how none of it matters because what... 20 players wintraded? lul.

If you're not in top 250, wintrade doesn't matter much to you, does it? If you're not top 250, you won't be able to wintrade into top 50 much less top 10 either. And if you wanna wintrade into top 250 - be my guest. It's not that simple, because there's a lot more players playing there, to wintrade up consistently. Yet it's actually kitten easy to achieve by ... PLAYING THE GAME.

Wintrade is BAD. Pretending wintrade makes all competitiveness irrelevant is also BAD. Most players are NOT affected by wintrade at all, but rather use it as an excuse for their own rating / them not caring / yada yada.

Win trading happens at all ranks though? I know it does in high gold anyway.

I'm sure there are a lot of players who reached their goals fairly, but we're all aware of the banwaves against numerous players too....

This is just the same thing as the WvW kills title, some rare people earn it fairly then a few servers went to the OS and farmed each other freely for the title making the other people who earn their title invalid to the whole community.Terrorism gets the same sort of outlook, 1 bad apple and they're all bad, it's natural for humans to think this way... You sort have to live with it now thanks to those who soiled it for you.

Nobody that "farmed OS" for ultimate dominator got more than 10% progress on it. I doubt people even got more than 5%. Everyone that has ultimate dominator got it "fairly" by grinding ;). And by the way, I got that one too :trollface:

Sure, some players will pretend people "farmed" ultimate dominator - just like you'll pretend wintrading is something that happens in gold - but in reality the community is just making up excuses that hold no rational sense. I'm sure wintrading is super common in gold :trollface:

Yes - it happens. And then players pretend that instantly means everyone that has it just got it 100% unfairly and it means nothing! And both the players trying to make progress unfairly, as the ones that pretend it suddenly means nothing anymore are ...wrong?

But really, do you think "wintrade" is something common or relevant for high gold players? MonkaS.

Look I get your opinion, but it's just your opinion. Just because you didn't know anyone who farmed the title means no one farmed the title.... Reality is, that it happened.

If you can't understand the point to my original post, then there's nothing more to discuss.

I do know which accounts got God of pvp unfairly in EU. Which is exactly why I'm calling most of you out on your kitten. Gold tier players going "anyone can get it" when even with 50k gold and wintrading they wouldn't get anywhere near. And the amount of games I've seen wintraded in high gold? 0.

So the reality is, titles being irrelevant is a popular OPINION. And frequently used as an excuse to invalidate any correlation between titles and skill while... 99% of the game can't even wintrade their way to a relevant title. I am not -anywhere- saying it's OK or fine to wintrade. I am saying that even to wintrade, you need a vastly higher skill than what is discussed or portrayed on these forums.

Your original post was trying to pull part of mine out of context and then still misinterpreting it :neutral:

No one is picking apart your post and taking it out of context.I gave you logical reasoning as to why some might not care about titles or view them negatively.

Your first reply was "it sounds like you find it OK for top 100 playres to wintrade". After you started talking about low-rated players also experiencing wintrade. Maybe this is a thing in NA, but in EU I'm yet to encounter this. I also don't quite see a point.

Unless you're talking about gatekeeping or dropping rating to maintain sub 1.6k for duo.How exactly does wintrade in gold work? Please enlighten me. Also, what is the point of it?

Yes I posted that as I was confused as to what Abaz was saying, sounded like it was ok to win trade in the top 100 because everyone else is too scrub.

If you're on EU, this would explain a lot to our perspective differences.

Win trade in gold works the same as platinum I assume, you get offered gold by someone struggling to break platinum and you either take it or you don't.... Then you see them ranked 148 on the leaderboards a few days later, then you see them ranked top 100 at the end of the season.... By this stage you start to wonder.

Top 100 is above 1700+ rating on EU. Goodluck wintrading 200 rating from gold :trollface:You also play against the same (decent) players a lot more consistently, as there's actually players to form high rank games. Almost 200 games in top 250+ rating and nobody offered me gold. Feelsbadman.

The thing that makes merciless / ruthless NA titles worthless isn't wintrade. It's that NA high-end community is so small it doesn't have enough players to compete for the titles. It's honestly somewhat similar on EU, but not nearly as bad.

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sephiroth.4217

sephiroth.4217

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@Etheri.5406 said:

@"Abazigal.3679" said:I think the wintrader argument gets overused and probably on the wrong end. Let's be honest, Etheri is right, these players still have the level to be plat 2-3 at least and there aren't many wintraders in each zone. Furthermore, i'm pretty sure most of them did " buy " 1 or 2 matchs to get their objective rating and that's it.

I don't believe at all titles are removed because of wintraders. Probably only because of DuoQ, in order to avoid unfairness from time to time ( i.e DuoQ at 3 am against poor opponents and get free rating )

Before the first banwave, there were guilds which would very regularly wintrade. Won't mention them but most high end EU players know who, what, where. Wasn't exactly a secret nor uncommon. Nowadays not so much.

But all of those players are still top-end EU PvP players. Not random low plat scrubs magically getting god of pvp. I'm sure some players traded quite a lot of games- but they still had to be top 100 to top 250 material to even breach into top 5.

All I'm reading from you guys is that it's ok to win trade if you're top 100...

At no point did I say that.

What I said is it's ridiculous howmany players pretend anyone can just wintrade their way to any title and skill doesn't exist. Sure - titles aren't strictly representative of skill - but most players got them FAIRLY and even many wintrading players are vastly, vastly better than everyone here whining about how none of it matters because what... 20 players wintraded? lul.

If you're not in top 250, wintrade doesn't matter much to you, does it? If you're not top 250, you won't be able to wintrade into top 50 much less top 10 either. And if you wanna wintrade into top 250 - be my guest. It's not that simple, because there's a lot more players playing there, to wintrade up consistently. Yet it's actually kitten easy to achieve by ... PLAYING THE GAME.

Wintrade is BAD. Pretending wintrade makes all competitiveness irrelevant is also BAD. Most players are NOT affected by wintrade at all, but rather use it as an excuse for their own rating / them not caring / yada yada.

Win trading happens at all ranks though? I know it does in high gold anyway.

I'm sure there are a lot of players who reached their goals fairly, but we're all aware of the banwaves against numerous players too....

This is just the same thing as the WvW kills title, some rare people earn it fairly then a few servers went to the OS and farmed each other freely for the title making the other people who earn their title invalid to the whole community.Terrorism gets the same sort of outlook, 1 bad apple and they're all bad, it's natural for humans to think this way... You sort have to live with it now thanks to those who soiled it for you.

Nobody that "farmed OS" for ultimate dominator got more than 10% progress on it. I doubt people even got more than 5%. Everyone that has ultimate dominator got it "fairly" by grinding ;). And by the way, I got that one too :trollface:

Sure, some players will pretend people "farmed" ultimate dominator - just like you'll pretend wintrading is something that happens in gold - but in reality the community is just making up excuses that hold no rational sense. I'm sure wintrading is super common in gold :trollface:

Yes - it happens. And then players pretend that instantly means everyone that has it just got it 100% unfairly and it means nothing! And both the players trying to make progress unfairly, as the ones that pretend it suddenly means nothing anymore are ...wrong?

But really, do you think "wintrade" is something common or relevant for high gold players? MonkaS.

Look I get your opinion, but it's just your opinion. Just because you didn't know anyone who farmed the title means no one farmed the title.... Reality is, that it happened.

If you can't understand the point to my original post, then there's nothing more to discuss.

I do know which accounts got God of pvp unfairly in EU. Which is exactly why I'm calling most of you out on your kitten. Gold tier players going "anyone can get it" when even with 50k gold and wintrading they wouldn't get anywhere near. And the amount of games I've seen wintraded in high gold? 0.

So the reality is, titles being irrelevant is a popular OPINION. And frequently used as an excuse to invalidate any correlation between titles and skill while... 99% of the game can't even wintrade their way to a relevant title. I am not -anywhere- saying it's OK or fine to wintrade. I am saying that even to wintrade, you need a vastly higher skill than what is discussed or portrayed on these forums.

Your original post was trying to pull part of mine out of context and then still misinterpreting it :neutral:

No one is picking apart your post and taking it out of context.I gave you logical reasoning as to why some might not care about titles or view them negatively.

Your first reply was "it sounds like you find it OK for top 100 playres to wintrade". After you started talking about low-rated players also experiencing wintrade. Maybe this is a thing in NA, but in EU I'm yet to encounter this. I also don't quite see a point.

Unless you're talking about gatekeeping or dropping rating to maintain sub 1.6k for duo.How exactly does wintrade in gold work? Please enlighten me. Also, what is the point of it?

Yes I posted that as I was confused as to what Abaz was saying, sounded like it was ok to win trade in the top 100 because everyone else is too scrub.

If you're on EU, this would explain a lot to our perspective differences.

Win trade in gold works the same as platinum I assume, you get offered gold by someone struggling to break platinum and you either take it or you don't.... Then you see them ranked 148 on the leaderboards a few days later, then you see them ranked top 100 at the end of the season.... By this stage you start to wonder.

Top 100 is above 1700+ rating on EU. Goodluck wintrading 200 rating from gold :trollface:You also play against the same (decent) players a lot more consistently, as there's actually players to form high rank games. Almost 200 games in top 250+ rating and nobody offered me gold. Feelsbadman.

The thing that makes merciless / ruthless NA titles worthless isn't wintrade. It's that NA high-end community is so small it doesn't have enough players to compete for the titles. It's honestly somewhat similar on EU, but not nearly as bad.

Its a complete joke in NA...

Wish these forums would display regions, it would probably clear up a lot of confusion when people are communicating with each other as the experiences and perspectives are entirely different even though we are playing the same game.

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BlaqueFyre.5678

BlaqueFyre.5678

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Posted

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@"Abazigal.3679" said:I think the wintrader argument gets overused and probably on the wrong end. Let's be honest, Etheri is right, these players still have the level to be plat 2-3 at least and there aren't many wintraders in each zone. Furthermore, i'm pretty sure most of them did " buy " 1 or 2 matchs to get their objective rating and that's it.

I don't believe at all titles are removed because of wintraders. Probably only because of DuoQ, in order to avoid unfairness from time to time ( i.e DuoQ at 3 am against poor opponents and get free rating )

Before the first banwave, there were guilds which would very regularly wintrade. Won't mention them but most high end EU players know who, what, where. Wasn't exactly a secret nor uncommon. Nowadays not so much.

But all of those players are still top-end EU PvP players. Not random low plat scrubs magically getting god of pvp. I'm sure some players traded quite a lot of games- but they still had to be top 100 to top 250 material to even breach into top 5.

All I'm reading from you guys is that it's ok to win trade if you're top 100...

At no point did I say that.

What I said is it's ridiculous howmany players pretend anyone can just wintrade their way to any title and skill doesn't exist. Sure - titles aren't strictly representative of skill - but most players got them FAIRLY and even many wintrading players are vastly, vastly better than everyone here whining about how none of it matters because what... 20 players wintraded? lul.

If you're not in top 250, wintrade doesn't matter much to you, does it? If you're not top 250, you won't be able to wintrade into top 50 much less top 10 either. And if you wanna wintrade into top 250 - be my guest. It's not that simple, because there's a lot more players playing there, to wintrade up consistently. Yet it's actually kitten easy to achieve by ... PLAYING THE GAME.

Wintrade is BAD. Pretending wintrade makes all competitiveness irrelevant is also BAD. Most players are NOT affected by wintrade at all, but rather use it as an excuse for their own rating / them not caring / yada yada.

Win trading happens at all ranks though? I know it does in high gold anyway.

I'm sure there are a lot of players who reached their goals fairly, but we're all aware of the banwaves against numerous players too....

This is just the same thing as the WvW kills title, some rare people earn it fairly then a few servers went to the OS and farmed each other freely for the title making the other people who earn their title invalid to the whole community.Terrorism gets the same sort of outlook, 1 bad apple and they're all bad, it's natural for humans to think this way... You sort have to live with it now thanks to those who soiled it for you.

Nobody that "farmed OS" for ultimate dominator got more than 10% progress on it. I doubt people even got more than 5%. Everyone that has ultimate dominator got it "fairly" by grinding ;). And by the way, I got that one too :trollface:

Sure, some players will pretend people "farmed" ultimate dominator - just like you'll pretend wintrading is something that happens in gold - but in reality the community is just making up excuses that hold no rational sense. I'm sure wintrading is super common in gold :trollface:

Yes - it happens. And then players pretend that instantly means everyone that has it just got it 100% unfairly and it means nothing! And both the players trying to make progress unfairly, as the ones that pretend it suddenly means nothing anymore are ...wrong?

But really, do you think "wintrade" is something common or relevant for high gold players? MonkaS.

Look I get your opinion, but it's just your opinion. Just because you didn't know anyone who farmed the title means no one farmed the title.... Reality is, that it happened.

If you can't understand the point to my original post, then there's nothing more to discuss.

I do know which accounts got God of pvp unfairly in EU. Which is exactly why I'm calling most of you out on your kitten. Gold tier players going "anyone can get it" when even with 50k gold and wintrading they wouldn't get anywhere near. And the amount of games I've seen wintraded in high gold? 0.

So the reality is, titles being irrelevant is a popular OPINION. And frequently used as an excuse to invalidate any correlation between titles and skill while... 99% of the game can't even wintrade their way to a relevant title. I am not -anywhere- saying it's OK or fine to wintrade. I am saying that even to wintrade, you need a vastly higher skill than what is discussed or portrayed on these forums.

Your original post was trying to pull part of mine out of context and then still misinterpreting it :neutral:

No one is picking apart your post and taking it out of context.I gave you logical reasoning as to why some might not care about titles or view them negatively.

Your first reply was "it sounds like you find it OK for top 100 playres to wintrade". After you started talking about low-rated players also experiencing wintrade. Maybe this is a thing in NA, but in EU I'm yet to encounter this. I also don't quite see a point.

Unless you're talking about gatekeeping or dropping rating to maintain sub 1.6k for duo.How exactly does wintrade in gold work? Please enlighten me. Also, what is the point of it?

Yes I posted that as I was confused as to what Abaz was saying, sounded like it was ok to win trade in the top 100 because everyone else is too scrub.

If you're on EU, this would explain a lot to our perspective differences.

Win trade in gold works the same as platinum I assume, you get offered gold by someone struggling to break platinum and you either take it or you don't.... Then you see them ranked 148 on the leaderboards a few days later, then you see them ranked top 100 at the end of the season.... By this stage you start to wonder.

Top 100 is above 1700+ rating on EU. Goodluck wintrading 200 rating from gold :trollface:You also play against the same (decent) players a lot more consistently, as there's actually players to form high rank games. Almost 200 games in top 250+ rating and nobody offered me gold. Feelsbadman.

The thing that makes merciless / ruthless NA titles worthless isn't wintrade. It's that NA high-end community is so small it doesn't have enough players to compete for the titles. It's honestly somewhat similar on EU, but not nearly as bad.

Its a complete joke in NA...

Wish these forums would display regions, it would probably clear up a lot of confusion when people are communicating with each other as the experiences and perspectives are entirely different even though we are playing the same game.

Make the forum accounts display all things, such as rating, region etc. sit back and enjoy the fiesta that would ensue.

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Etheri.5406

Etheri.5406

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Posted

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@"Abazigal.3679" said:I think the wintrader argument gets overused and probably on the wrong end. Let's be honest, Etheri is right, these players still have the level to be plat 2-3 at least and there aren't many wintraders in each zone. Furthermore, i'm pretty sure most of them did " buy " 1 or 2 matchs to get their objective rating and that's it.

I don't believe at all titles are removed because of wintraders. Probably only because of DuoQ, in order to avoid unfairness from time to time ( i.e DuoQ at 3 am against poor opponents and get free rating )

Before the first banwave, there were guilds which would very regularly wintrade. Won't mention them but most high end EU players know who, what, where. Wasn't exactly a secret nor uncommon. Nowadays not so much.

But all of those players are still top-end EU PvP players. Not random low plat scrubs magically getting god of pvp. I'm sure some players traded quite a lot of games- but they still had to be top 100 to top 250 material to even breach into top 5.

All I'm reading from you guys is that it's ok to win trade if you're top 100...

At no point did I say that.

What I said is it's ridiculous howmany players pretend anyone can just wintrade their way to any title and skill doesn't exist. Sure - titles aren't strictly representative of skill - but most players got them FAIRLY and even many wintrading players are vastly, vastly better than everyone here whining about how none of it matters because what... 20 players wintraded? lul.

If you're not in top 250, wintrade doesn't matter much to you, does it? If you're not top 250, you won't be able to wintrade into top 50 much less top 10 either. And if you wanna wintrade into top 250 - be my guest. It's not that simple, because there's a lot more players playing there, to wintrade up consistently. Yet it's actually kitten easy to achieve by ... PLAYING THE GAME.

Wintrade is BAD. Pretending wintrade makes all competitiveness irrelevant is also BAD. Most players are NOT affected by wintrade at all, but rather use it as an excuse for their own rating / them not caring / yada yada.

Win trading happens at all ranks though? I know it does in high gold anyway.

I'm sure there are a lot of players who reached their goals fairly, but we're all aware of the banwaves against numerous players too....

This is just the same thing as the WvW kills title, some rare people earn it fairly then a few servers went to the OS and farmed each other freely for the title making the other people who earn their title invalid to the whole community.Terrorism gets the same sort of outlook, 1 bad apple and they're all bad, it's natural for humans to think this way... You sort have to live with it now thanks to those who soiled it for you.

Nobody that "farmed OS" for ultimate dominator got more than 10% progress on it. I doubt people even got more than 5%. Everyone that has ultimate dominator got it "fairly" by grinding ;). And by the way, I got that one too :trollface:

Sure, some players will pretend people "farmed" ultimate dominator - just like you'll pretend wintrading is something that happens in gold - but in reality the community is just making up excuses that hold no rational sense. I'm sure wintrading is super common in gold :trollface:

Yes - it happens. And then players pretend that instantly means everyone that has it just got it 100% unfairly and it means nothing! And both the players trying to make progress unfairly, as the ones that pretend it suddenly means nothing anymore are ...wrong?

But really, do you think "wintrade" is something common or relevant for high gold players? MonkaS.

Look I get your opinion, but it's just your opinion. Just because you didn't know anyone who farmed the title means no one farmed the title.... Reality is, that it happened.

If you can't understand the point to my original post, then there's nothing more to discuss.

I do know which accounts got God of pvp unfairly in EU. Which is exactly why I'm calling most of you out on your kitten. Gold tier players going "anyone can get it" when even with 50k gold and wintrading they wouldn't get anywhere near. And the amount of games I've seen wintraded in high gold? 0.

So the reality is, titles being irrelevant is a popular OPINION. And frequently used as an excuse to invalidate any correlation between titles and skill while... 99% of the game can't even wintrade their way to a relevant title. I am not -anywhere- saying it's OK or fine to wintrade. I am saying that even to wintrade, you need a vastly higher skill than what is discussed or portrayed on these forums.

Your original post was trying to pull part of mine out of context and then still misinterpreting it :neutral:

No one is picking apart your post and taking it out of context.I gave you logical reasoning as to why some might not care about titles or view them negatively.

Your first reply was "it sounds like you find it OK for top 100 playres to wintrade". After you started talking about low-rated players also experiencing wintrade. Maybe this is a thing in NA, but in EU I'm yet to encounter this. I also don't quite see a point.

Unless you're talking about gatekeeping or dropping rating to maintain sub 1.6k for duo.How exactly does wintrade in gold work? Please enlighten me. Also, what is the point of it?

Yes I posted that as I was confused as to what Abaz was saying, sounded like it was ok to win trade in the top 100 because everyone else is too scrub.

If you're on EU, this would explain a lot to our perspective differences.

Win trade in gold works the same as platinum I assume, you get offered gold by someone struggling to break platinum and you either take it or you don't.... Then you see them ranked 148 on the leaderboards a few days later, then you see them ranked top 100 at the end of the season.... By this stage you start to wonder.

Top 100 is above 1700+ rating on EU. Goodluck wintrading 200 rating from gold :trollface:You also play against the same (decent) players a lot more consistently, as there's actually players to form high rank games. Almost 200 games in top 250+ rating and nobody offered me gold. Feelsbadman.

The thing that makes merciless / ruthless NA titles worthless isn't wintrade. It's that NA high-end community is so small it doesn't have enough players to compete for the titles. It's honestly somewhat similar on EU, but not nearly as bad.

Its a complete joke in NA...

Wish these forums would display regions, it would probably clear up a lot of confusion when people are communicating with each other as the experiences and perspectives are entirely different even though we are playing the same game.

Both PvP and WvW on EU are drastically different from NA. Luckily anet doesn't actually play on EU, so we're safe.:trollface:

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Etheri.5406

Etheri.5406

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@BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

@"Abazigal.3679" said:I think the wintrader argument gets overused and probably on the wrong end. Let's be honest, Etheri is right, these players still have the level to be plat 2-3 at least and there aren't many wintraders in each zone. Furthermore, i'm pretty sure most of them did " buy " 1 or 2 matchs to get their objective rating and that's it.

I don't believe at all titles are removed because of wintraders. Probably only because of DuoQ, in order to avoid unfairness from time to time ( i.e DuoQ at 3 am against poor opponents and get free rating )

Before the first banwave, there were guilds which would very regularly wintrade. Won't mention them but most high end EU players know who, what, where. Wasn't exactly a secret nor uncommon. Nowadays not so much.

But all of those players are still top-end EU PvP players. Not random low plat scrubs magically getting god of pvp. I'm sure some players traded quite a lot of games- but they still had to be top 100 to top 250 material to even breach into top 5.

All I'm reading from you guys is that it's ok to win trade if you're top 100...

At no point did I say that.

What I said is it's ridiculous howmany players pretend anyone can just wintrade their way to any title and skill doesn't exist. Sure - titles aren't strictly representative of skill - but most players got them FAIRLY and even many wintrading players are vastly, vastly better than everyone here whining about how none of it matters because what... 20 players wintraded? lul.

If you're not in top 250, wintrade doesn't matter much to you, does it? If you're not top 250, you won't be able to wintrade into top 50 much less top 10 either. And if you wanna wintrade into top 250 - be my guest. It's not that simple, because there's a lot more players playing there, to wintrade up consistently. Yet it's actually kitten easy to achieve by ... PLAYING THE GAME.

Wintrade is BAD. Pretending wintrade makes all competitiveness irrelevant is also BAD. Most players are NOT affected by wintrade at all, but rather use it as an excuse for their own rating / them not caring / yada yada.

Win trading happens at all ranks though? I know it does in high gold anyway.

I'm sure there are a lot of players who reached their goals fairly, but we're all aware of the banwaves against numerous players too....

This is just the same thing as the WvW kills title, some rare people earn it fairly then a few servers went to the OS and farmed each other freely for the title making the other people who earn their title invalid to the whole community.Terrorism gets the same sort of outlook, 1 bad apple and they're all bad, it's natural for humans to think this way... You sort have to live with it now thanks to those who soiled it for you.

Nobody that "farmed OS" for ultimate dominator got more than 10% progress on it. I doubt people even got more than 5%. Everyone that has ultimate dominator got it "fairly" by grinding ;). And by the way, I got that one too :trollface:

Sure, some players will pretend people "farmed" ultimate dominator - just like you'll pretend wintrading is something that happens in gold - but in reality the community is just making up excuses that hold no rational sense. I'm sure wintrading is super common in gold :trollface:

Yes - it happens. And then players pretend that instantly means everyone that has it just got it 100% unfairly and it means nothing! And both the players trying to make progress unfairly, as the ones that pretend it suddenly means nothing anymore are ...wrong?

But really, do you think "wintrade" is something common or relevant for high gold players? MonkaS.

Look I get your opinion, but it's just your opinion. Just because you didn't know anyone who farmed the title means no one farmed the title.... Reality is, that it happened.

If you can't understand the point to my original post, then there's nothing more to discuss.

I do know which accounts got God of pvp unfairly in EU. Which is exactly why I'm calling most of you out on your kitten. Gold tier players going "anyone can get it" when even with 50k gold and wintrading they wouldn't get anywhere near. And the amount of games I've seen wintraded in high gold? 0.

So the reality is, titles being irrelevant is a popular OPINION. And frequently used as an excuse to invalidate any correlation between titles and skill while... 99% of the game can't even wintrade their way to a relevant title. I am not -anywhere- saying it's OK or fine to wintrade. I am saying that even to wintrade, you need a vastly higher skill than what is discussed or portrayed on these forums.

Your original post was trying to pull part of mine out of context and then still misinterpreting it :neutral:

No one is picking apart your post and taking it out of context.I gave you logical reasoning as to why some might not care about titles or view them negatively.

Your first reply was "it sounds like you find it OK for top 100 playres to wintrade". After you started talking about low-rated players also experiencing wintrade. Maybe this is a thing in NA, but in EU I'm yet to encounter this. I also don't quite see a point.

Unless you're talking about gatekeeping or dropping rating to maintain sub 1.6k for duo.How exactly does wintrade in gold work? Please enlighten me. Also, what is the point of it?

Yes I posted that as I was confused as to what Abaz was saying, sounded like it was ok to win trade in the top 100 because everyone else is too scrub.

If you're on EU, this would explain a lot to our perspective differences.

Win trade in gold works the same as platinum I assume, you get offered gold by someone struggling to break platinum and you either take it or you don't.... Then you see them ranked 148 on the leaderboards a few days later, then you see them ranked top 100 at the end of the season.... By this stage you start to wonder.

Top 100 is above 1700+ rating on EU. Goodluck wintrading 200 rating from gold :trollface:You also play against the same (decent) players a lot more consistently, as there's actually players to form high rank games. Almost 200 games in top 250+ rating and nobody offered me gold. Feelsbadman.

The thing that makes merciless / ruthless NA titles worthless isn't wintrade. It's that NA high-end community is so small it doesn't have enough players to compete for the titles. It's honestly somewhat similar on EU, but not nearly as bad.

Its a complete joke in NA...

Wish these forums would display regions, it would probably clear up a lot of confusion when people are communicating with each other as the experiences and perspectives are entirely different even though we are playing the same game.

Make the forum accounts display all things, such as rating, region etc. sit back and enjoy the fiesta that would ensue.

It'll never happen. The majority of players are against it ;)But it sure would be entertaining. And for communication, a whole lot better.

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BlaqueFyre.5678

BlaqueFyre.5678

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@Etheri.5406 said:

@"Abazigal.3679" said:I think the wintrader argument gets overused and probably on the wrong end. Let's be honest, Etheri is right, these players still have the level to be plat 2-3 at least and there aren't many wintraders in each zone. Furthermore, i'm pretty sure most of them did " buy " 1 or 2 matchs to get their objective rating and that's it.

I don't believe at all titles are removed because of wintraders. Probably only because of DuoQ, in order to avoid unfairness from time to time ( i.e DuoQ at 3 am against poor opponents and get free rating )

Before the first banwave, there were guilds which would very regularly wintrade. Won't mention them but most high end EU players know who, what, where. Wasn't exactly a secret nor uncommon. Nowadays not so much.

But all of those players are still top-end EU PvP players. Not random low plat scrubs magically getting god of pvp. I'm sure some players traded quite a lot of games- but they still had to be top 100 to top 250 material to even breach into top 5.

All I'm reading from you guys is that it's ok to win trade if you're top 100...

At no point did I say that.

What I said is it's ridiculous howmany players pretend anyone can just wintrade their way to any title and skill doesn't exist. Sure - titles aren't strictly representative of skill - but most players got them FAIRLY and even many wintrading players are vastly, vastly better than everyone here whining about how none of it matters because what... 20 players wintraded? lul.

If you're not in top 250, wintrade doesn't matter much to you, does it? If you're not top 250, you won't be able to wintrade into top 50 much less top 10 either. And if you wanna wintrade into top 250 - be my guest. It's not that simple, because there's a lot more players playing there, to wintrade up consistently. Yet it's actually kitten easy to achieve by ... PLAYING THE GAME.

Wintrade is BAD. Pretending wintrade makes all competitiveness irrelevant is also BAD. Most players are NOT affected by wintrade at all, but rather use it as an excuse for their own rating / them not caring / yada yada.

Win trading happens at all ranks though? I know it does in high gold anyway.

I'm sure there are a lot of players who reached their goals fairly, but we're all aware of the banwaves against numerous players too....

This is just the same thing as the WvW kills title, some rare people earn it fairly then a few servers went to the OS and farmed each other freely for the title making the other people who earn their title invalid to the whole community.Terrorism gets the same sort of outlook, 1 bad apple and they're all bad, it's natural for humans to think this way... You sort have to live with it now thanks to those who soiled it for you.

Nobody that "farmed OS" for ultimate dominator got more than 10% progress on it. I doubt people even got more than 5%. Everyone that has ultimate dominator got it "fairly" by grinding ;). And by the way, I got that one too :trollface:

Sure, some players will pretend people "farmed" ultimate dominator - just like you'll pretend wintrading is something that happens in gold - but in reality the community is just making up excuses that hold no rational sense. I'm sure wintrading is super common in gold :trollface:

Yes - it happens. And then players pretend that instantly means everyone that has it just got it 100% unfairly and it means nothing! And both the players trying to make progress unfairly, as the ones that pretend it suddenly means nothing anymore are ...wrong?

But really, do you think "wintrade" is something common or relevant for high gold players? MonkaS.

Look I get your opinion, but it's just your opinion. Just because you didn't know anyone who farmed the title means no one farmed the title.... Reality is, that it happened.

If you can't understand the point to my original post, then there's nothing more to discuss.

I do know which accounts got God of pvp unfairly in EU. Which is exactly why I'm calling most of you out on your kitten. Gold tier players going "anyone can get it" when even with 50k gold and wintrading they wouldn't get anywhere near. And the amount of games I've seen wintraded in high gold? 0.

So the reality is, titles being irrelevant is a popular OPINION. And frequently used as an excuse to invalidate any correlation between titles and skill while... 99% of the game can't even wintrade their way to a relevant title. I am not -anywhere- saying it's OK or fine to wintrade. I am saying that even to wintrade, you need a vastly higher skill than what is discussed or portrayed on these forums.

Your original post was trying to pull part of mine out of context and then still misinterpreting it :neutral:

No one is picking apart your post and taking it out of context.I gave you logical reasoning as to why some might not care about titles or view them negatively.

Your first reply was "it sounds like you find it OK for top 100 playres to wintrade". After you started talking about low-rated players also experiencing wintrade. Maybe this is a thing in NA, but in EU I'm yet to encounter this. I also don't quite see a point.

Unless you're talking about gatekeeping or dropping rating to maintain sub 1.6k for duo.How exactly does wintrade in gold work? Please enlighten me. Also, what is the point of it?

Yes I posted that as I was confused as to what Abaz was saying, sounded like it was ok to win trade in the top 100 because everyone else is too scrub.

If you're on EU, this would explain a lot to our perspective differences.

Win trade in gold works the same as platinum I assume, you get offered gold by someone struggling to break platinum and you either take it or you don't.... Then you see them ranked 148 on the leaderboards a few days later, then you see them ranked top 100 at the end of the season.... By this stage you start to wonder.

Top 100 is above 1700+ rating on EU. Goodluck wintrading 200 rating from gold :trollface:You also play against the same (decent) players a lot more consistently, as there's actually players to form high rank games. Almost 200 games in top 250+ rating and nobody offered me gold. Feelsbadman.

The thing that makes merciless / ruthless NA titles worthless isn't wintrade. It's that NA high-end community is so small it doesn't have enough players to compete for the titles. It's honestly somewhat similar on EU, but not nearly as bad.

Its a complete joke in NA...

Wish these forums would display regions, it would probably clear up a lot of confusion when people are communicating with each other as the experiences and perspectives are entirely different even though we are playing the same game.

Make the forum accounts display all things, such as rating, region etc. sit back and enjoy the fiesta that would ensue.

It'll never happen. The majority of players are against it ;)But it sure would be entertaining. And for communication, a whole lot better.

Oh I know, have to protect the feelz, lol.

I couldn’t care less about the title issue take or leave them means nothing to me, I just want the game to have better PvP overall with better balance, I know another pipe dream.

If removing titles allows even a slight temporary improvement to match quality(not saying that it will) then that’s an overall positive, and if it allows the Devs to focus on more important PvP issues other than “win traders” then that is a huge plus.(again not saying removing them will)

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Crab Fear.1624

Crab Fear.1624

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@BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

@"Abazigal.3679" said:I think the wintrader argument gets overused and probably on the wrong end. Let's be honest, Etheri is right, these players still have the level to be plat 2-3 at least and there aren't many wintraders in each zone. Furthermore, i'm pretty sure most of them did " buy " 1 or 2 matchs to get their objective rating and that's it.

I don't believe at all titles are removed because of wintraders. Probably only because of DuoQ, in order to avoid unfairness from time to time ( i.e DuoQ at 3 am against poor opponents and get free rating )

Before the first banwave, there were guilds which would very regularly wintrade. Won't mention them but most high end EU players know who, what, where. Wasn't exactly a secret nor uncommon. Nowadays not so much.

But all of those players are still top-end EU PvP players. Not random low plat scrubs magically getting god of pvp. I'm sure some players traded quite a lot of games- but they still had to be top 100 to top 250 material to even breach into top 5.

All I'm reading from you guys is that it's ok to win trade if you're top 100...

At no point did I say that.

What I said is it's ridiculous howmany players pretend anyone can just wintrade their way to any title and skill doesn't exist. Sure - titles aren't strictly representative of skill - but most players got them FAIRLY and even many wintrading players are vastly, vastly better than everyone here whining about how none of it matters because what... 20 players wintraded? lul.

If you're not in top 250, wintrade doesn't matter much to you, does it? If you're not top 250, you won't be able to wintrade into top 50 much less top 10 either. And if you wanna wintrade into top 250 - be my guest. It's not that simple, because there's a lot more players playing there, to wintrade up consistently. Yet it's actually kitten easy to achieve by ... PLAYING THE GAME.

Wintrade is BAD. Pretending wintrade makes all competitiveness irrelevant is also BAD. Most players are NOT affected by wintrade at all, but rather use it as an excuse for their own rating / them not caring / yada yada.

Win trading happens at all ranks though? I know it does in high gold anyway.

I'm sure there are a lot of players who reached their goals fairly, but we're all aware of the banwaves against numerous players too....

This is just the same thing as the WvW kills title, some rare people earn it fairly then a few servers went to the OS and farmed each other freely for the title making the other people who earn their title invalid to the whole community.Terrorism gets the same sort of outlook, 1 bad apple and they're all bad, it's natural for humans to think this way... You sort have to live with it now thanks to those who soiled it for you.

Nobody that "farmed OS" for ultimate dominator got more than 10% progress on it. I doubt people even got more than 5%. Everyone that has ultimate dominator got it "fairly" by grinding ;). And by the way, I got that one too :trollface:

Sure, some players will pretend people "farmed" ultimate dominator - just like you'll pretend wintrading is something that happens in gold - but in reality the community is just making up excuses that hold no rational sense. I'm sure wintrading is super common in gold :trollface:

Yes - it happens. And then players pretend that instantly means everyone that has it just got it 100% unfairly and it means nothing! And both the players trying to make progress unfairly, as the ones that pretend it suddenly means nothing anymore are ...wrong?

But really, do you think "wintrade" is something common or relevant for high gold players? MonkaS.

Look I get your opinion, but it's just your opinion. Just because you didn't know anyone who farmed the title means no one farmed the title.... Reality is, that it happened.

If you can't understand the point to my original post, then there's nothing more to discuss.

I do know which accounts got God of pvp unfairly in EU. Which is exactly why I'm calling most of you out on your kitten. Gold tier players going "anyone can get it" when even with 50k gold and wintrading they wouldn't get anywhere near. And the amount of games I've seen wintraded in high gold? 0.

So the reality is, titles being irrelevant is a popular OPINION. And frequently used as an excuse to invalidate any correlation between titles and skill while... 99% of the game can't even wintrade their way to a relevant title. I am not -anywhere- saying it's OK or fine to wintrade. I am saying that even to wintrade, you need a vastly higher skill than what is discussed or portrayed on these forums.

Your original post was trying to pull part of mine out of context and then still misinterpreting it :neutral:

No one is picking apart your post and taking it out of context.I gave you logical reasoning as to why some might not care about titles or view them negatively.

Your first reply was "it sounds like you find it OK for top 100 playres to wintrade". After you started talking about low-rated players also experiencing wintrade. Maybe this is a thing in NA, but in EU I'm yet to encounter this. I also don't quite see a point.

Unless you're talking about gatekeeping or dropping rating to maintain sub 1.6k for duo.How exactly does wintrade in gold work? Please enlighten me. Also, what is the point of it?

Yes I posted that as I was confused as to what Abaz was saying, sounded like it was ok to win trade in the top 100 because everyone else is too scrub.

If you're on EU, this would explain a lot to our perspective differences.

Win trade in gold works the same as platinum I assume, you get offered gold by someone struggling to break platinum and you either take it or you don't.... Then you see them ranked 148 on the leaderboards a few days later, then you see them ranked top 100 at the end of the season.... By this stage you start to wonder.

Top 100 is above 1700+ rating on EU. Goodluck wintrading 200 rating from gold :trollface:You also play against the same (decent) players a lot more consistently, as there's actually players to form high rank games. Almost 200 games in top 250+ rating and nobody offered me gold. Feelsbadman.

The thing that makes merciless / ruthless NA titles worthless isn't wintrade. It's that NA high-end community is so small it doesn't have enough players to compete for the titles. It's honestly somewhat similar on EU, but not nearly as bad.

Its a complete joke in NA...

Wish these forums would display regions, it would probably clear up a lot of confusion when people are communicating with each other as the experiences and perspectives are entirely different even though we are playing the same game.

Make the forum accounts display all things, such as rating, region etc. sit back and enjoy the fiesta that would ensue.

It'll never happen. The majority of players are against it ;)But it sure would be entertaining. And for communication, a whole lot better.

Oh I know, have to protect the feelz, lol.

I couldn’t care less about the title issue take or leave them means nothing to me, I just want the game to have better PvP overall with better balance, I know another pipe dream.

If removing titles allows even a slight temporary improvement to match quality(not saying that it will) then that’s an overall positive, and if it allows the Devs to focus on more important PvP issues other than “win traders” then that is a huge plus.(again not saying removing them will)

They don't have to protect the feels, because if you harass or attack the player personally on the forums you comment gets deleted and you might get banned if you keep it up. So, they could bring it with no problems.

"Unskilled" players really don't care how loud the "top end" whines. The "popular" opinion will likely get what they want because this ins't an e-sport, and Anet wants the largest group to have fun.

So, if anything we'll trample over the "feels" of the top end. They can be loud on the forums, but they are not gonna get what the want.

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Lucentfir.7430

Lucentfir.7430

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@Odik.4587 said:

@breno.5423 said:PvE titles mean s**tPvP titles mean skill level.

Theres the difference.If you see someone with a god of pvp title you will feel a pressure/fear/intimidated/etc, this is because of the prestige/recognition that these titles give to his owner.See the point now?

Don't compare pvp titles with pve titles plz.

Usually when you see 'god of pvp' first that comes in mind some1 did huge work on wintrading xD

@"Lucentfir.7430" said:I honestly find someone sporting a "Challenger of the Arena" or "Soldier of the Arena" and up a lot more intimidating to play against than someone with the god title.You better to not care about titles at all , I seen this titles few times... long time ago , they were like gold level playes :P

You're right you shouldn't care, but it's to say just to say you've played competitively/reached high tier before. , but the point I'm trying to make to another stating 'insert top end title here' should be feared/cause intimidation 'is that, the titles that are being removed doesn't really provide what he's expecting from them, with how many shady things were done to secure 'competative' titles, they were all devalued. You can say what you will about how those people who own those older titles(Challenger of the Arena, etc) play now, but those titles don't come with the sour baggage that the current day ones do. Those titles show they've been around since the dinosaur age of Gw2 Spvp and they participated in a competative scene before, if you see one now a days you should be impressed by the fact they're still around to put up with the Spvp burning dumpster roller coaster circus act.

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Etheri.5406

Etheri.5406

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@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@"Abazigal.3679" said:I think the wintrader argument gets overused and probably on the wrong end. Let's be honest, Etheri is right, these players still have the level to be plat 2-3 at least and there aren't many wintraders in each zone. Furthermore, i'm pretty sure most of them did " buy " 1 or 2 matchs to get their objective rating and that's it.

I don't believe at all titles are removed because of wintraders. Probably only because of DuoQ, in order to avoid unfairness from time to time ( i.e DuoQ at 3 am against poor opponents and get free rating )

Before the first banwave, there were guilds which would very regularly wintrade. Won't mention them but most high end EU players know who, what, where. Wasn't exactly a secret nor uncommon. Nowadays not so much.

But all of those players are still top-end EU PvP players. Not random low plat scrubs magically getting god of pvp. I'm sure some players traded quite a lot of games- but they still had to be top 100 to top 250 material to even breach into top 5.

All I'm reading from you guys is that it's ok to win trade if you're top 100...

At no point did I say that.

What I said is it's ridiculous howmany players pretend anyone can just wintrade their way to any title and skill doesn't exist. Sure - titles aren't strictly representative of skill - but most players got them FAIRLY and even many wintrading players are vastly, vastly better than everyone here whining about how none of it matters because what... 20 players wintraded? lul.

If you're not in top 250, wintrade doesn't matter much to you, does it? If you're not top 250, you won't be able to wintrade into top 50 much less top 10 either. And if you wanna wintrade into top 250 - be my guest. It's not that simple, because there's a lot more players playing there, to wintrade up consistently. Yet it's actually kitten easy to achieve by ... PLAYING THE GAME.

Wintrade is BAD. Pretending wintrade makes all competitiveness irrelevant is also BAD. Most players are NOT affected by wintrade at all, but rather use it as an excuse for their own rating / them not caring / yada yada.

Win trading happens at all ranks though? I know it does in high gold anyway.

I'm sure there are a lot of players who reached their goals fairly, but we're all aware of the banwaves against numerous players too....

This is just the same thing as the WvW kills title, some rare people earn it fairly then a few servers went to the OS and farmed each other freely for the title making the other people who earn their title invalid to the whole community.Terrorism gets the same sort of outlook, 1 bad apple and they're all bad, it's natural for humans to think this way... You sort have to live with it now thanks to those who soiled it for you.

Nobody that "farmed OS" for ultimate dominator got more than 10% progress on it. I doubt people even got more than 5%. Everyone that has ultimate dominator got it "fairly" by grinding ;). And by the way, I got that one too :trollface:

Sure, some players will pretend people "farmed" ultimate dominator - just like you'll pretend wintrading is something that happens in gold - but in reality the community is just making up excuses that hold no rational sense. I'm sure wintrading is super common in gold :trollface:

Yes - it happens. And then players pretend that instantly means everyone that has it just got it 100% unfairly and it means nothing! And both the players trying to make progress unfairly, as the ones that pretend it suddenly means nothing anymore are ...wrong?

But really, do you think "wintrade" is something common or relevant for high gold players? MonkaS.

Look I get your opinion, but it's just your opinion. Just because you didn't know anyone who farmed the title means no one farmed the title.... Reality is, that it happened.

If you can't understand the point to my original post, then there's nothing more to discuss.

I do know which accounts got God of pvp unfairly in EU. Which is exactly why I'm calling most of you out on your kitten. Gold tier players going "anyone can get it" when even with 50k gold and wintrading they wouldn't get anywhere near. And the amount of games I've seen wintraded in high gold? 0.

So the reality is, titles being irrelevant is a popular OPINION. And frequently used as an excuse to invalidate any correlation between titles and skill while... 99% of the game can't even wintrade their way to a relevant title. I am not -anywhere- saying it's OK or fine to wintrade. I am saying that even to wintrade, you need a vastly higher skill than what is discussed or portrayed on these forums.

Your original post was trying to pull part of mine out of context and then still misinterpreting it :neutral:

No one is picking apart your post and taking it out of context.I gave you logical reasoning as to why some might not care about titles or view them negatively.

Your first reply was "it sounds like you find it OK for top 100 playres to wintrade". After you started talking about low-rated players also experiencing wintrade. Maybe this is a thing in NA, but in EU I'm yet to encounter this. I also don't quite see a point.

Unless you're talking about gatekeeping or dropping rating to maintain sub 1.6k for duo.How exactly does wintrade in gold work? Please enlighten me. Also, what is the point of it?

Yes I posted that as I was confused as to what Abaz was saying, sounded like it was ok to win trade in the top 100 because everyone else is too scrub.

If you're on EU, this would explain a lot to our perspective differences.

Win trade in gold works the same as platinum I assume, you get offered gold by someone struggling to break platinum and you either take it or you don't.... Then you see them ranked 148 on the leaderboards a few days later, then you see them ranked top 100 at the end of the season.... By this stage you start to wonder.

Top 100 is above 1700+ rating on EU. Goodluck wintrading 200 rating from gold :trollface:You also play against the same (decent) players a lot more consistently, as there's actually players to form high rank games. Almost 200 games in top 250+ rating and nobody offered me gold. Feelsbadman.

The thing that makes merciless / ruthless NA titles worthless isn't wintrade. It's that NA high-end community is so small it doesn't have enough players to compete for the titles. It's honestly somewhat similar on EU, but not nearly as bad.

Its a complete joke in NA...

Wish these forums would display regions, it would probably clear up a lot of confusion when people are communicating with each other as the experiences and perspectives are entirely different even though we are playing the same game.

Make the forum accounts display all things, such as rating, region etc. sit back and enjoy the fiesta that would ensue.

It'll never happen. The majority of players are against it ;)But it sure would be entertaining. And for communication, a whole lot better.

Oh I know, have to protect the feelz, lol.

I couldn’t care less about the title issue take or leave them means nothing to me, I just want the game to have better PvP overall with better balance, I know another pipe dream.

If removing titles allows even a slight temporary improvement to match quality(not saying that it will) then that’s an overall positive, and if it allows the Devs to focus on more important PvP issues other than “win traders” then that is a huge plus.(again not saying removing them will)

They don't have to protect the feels, because if you harass or attack the player personally on the forums you comment gets deleted and you might get banned if you keep it up. So, they could bring it with no problems.

"Unskilled" players really don't care how loud the "top end" whines. The "popular" opinion will likely get what they want because this ins't an e-sport, and Anet wants the largest group to have fun.

So, if anything we'll trample over the "feels" of the top end. They can be loud on the forums, but they are not gonna get what the want.

Yes. And then they'll still be upset about the consequences of an inbalanced gamemode with a struggling / lacking population.

Wait why do i write this in the future tense?

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Gamble.4580

Gamble.4580

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I have been playing this last year for the god of pvp title. Its my reason to play my goal and each season I get close till top ten then each game seems d.c after d/c till I drop right down. so I have noticed some weird games once I get high. But the title is still my goal so I am sad its going.

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Malediktus.9250

Malediktus.9250

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@BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

@Malediktus.9250 said:I think it is a very bad decision from Anet. As always they take the lazy way out

Iirc a certain someone complained till AP was removed from certain titles, because of the effort required, yet claims Anet is being lazy by removing certain titles... oh the irony

You realize that the fact that Anet is removing the titles after a relatively short time (I think it was 8 seasons at most) - with not a single season warning - just reinforces the fact that those titles should not be connected to AP?

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Daishi.6027

Daishi.6027

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To me it's fine.

Only stand alone cool sounding ones were:Primordial, Demi God, and God.

Immortal was okay.

Merciless, Ruthless, Relentless, Unyielding, and Indomitable were lame and I probably will never wear any of the ones I have.

Exhaled and Illustrious were super lame and I was glad when they were gone.

Legendary Champion alone sounds better than half the options and it's literally a participation reward if you play long enough.Most of the early titles were easy to abuse your way to victory with meta and a little game sense, which ruins how cool primordial sounds to the point where I'll never wear this one either (lol S1 chronobunk). Some people bought their way up so that harms their value... and it means even less for skill when no names like me who often opt out of queuing in seasons can still 1v1 on a mirror matchup in honorable fights vs people with the Demi God and immortal titles and win with inferior builds.

There will still be rewards but I hope this time around it’s something more interesting.

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ugrakarma.9416

ugrakarma.9416

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@Daishi.6027 said:To me it's fine.

Only stand alone cool sounding ones were:Primordial, Demi God, and God.

Immortal was okay.

Merciless, Ruthless, Relentless, Unyielding, and Indomitable were lame and I probably will never wear any of the ones I have.

Exhaled and Illustrious were super lame and I was glad when they were gone.

Legendary Champion alone sounds better than half the options and it's literally a participation reward if you play long enough.Most of the early titles were easy to abuse your way to victory with meta and a little game sense, which ruins how cool primordial sounds to the point where I'll never wear this one either (lol S1 chronobunk). Some people bought their way up so that harms their value... and it means even less for skill when no names like me who often opt out of queuing in seasons can still 1v1 on a mirror matchup in honorable fights vs people with the Demi God and immortal titles and win with inferior builds.

There will still be rewards but I hope this time around it’s something more interesting.

most of map titles is already very cool, like Silent Killer, Siege Breaker.

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BlaqueFyre.5678

BlaqueFyre.5678

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@Malediktus.9250 said:

@Malediktus.9250 said:I think it is a very bad decision from Anet. As always they take the lazy way out

Iirc a certain someone complained till AP was removed from certain titles, because of the effort required, yet claims Anet is being lazy by removing certain titles... oh the irony

You realize that the fact that Anet is removing the titles after a relatively short time (I think it was 8 seasons at most) - with not a single season warning - just reinforces the fact that those titles should not be connected to AP?

You realize that calling others lazy for not putting effort into something while complaining about anything that takes slight effort to achieve have it’s AP removed is a complete hypocrisy, right? Like this is almost too perfect.

A certain someone was too lazy to put in effort to achieve something and kicked and screamed till AP was removed from titles, all because of the AP leaderboard, and then claims others are lazy for not putting in effort. #priceless

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