Holy trinity - raids

Ze Dos Cavalos.6132 · October 4, 2018

@Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 said:
@"Ze Dos Cavalos.6132" said:Tell me 1 class that cant do raids.

Dont think thats his point.

He said "so other classes get a chance to be played as well"

But every class in the game already has a chance to do raid so I don't know what's his point.

Astralporing.1957 · October 4, 2018

@Ze Dos Cavalos.6132 said:
@Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 said:
@Ze Dos Cavalos.6132 said:Tell me 1 class that cant do raids.

Dont think thats his point.

He said "so other classes get a chance to be played as well"

But every class in the game already has a chance to do raid so I don't know what's his point.

I'm pretty sure that when OP says "other classes", he means specifically necro.

Ze Dos Cavalos.6132 · October 4, 2018

@Astralporing.1957 said:
@Ze Dos Cavalos.6132 said:
@Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 said:
@Ze Dos Cavalos.6132 said:Tell me 1 class that cant do raids.

Dont think thats his point.

He said "so other classes get a chance to be played as well"

But every class in the game already has a chance to do raid so I don't know what's his point.

I'm pretty sure that when OP says "other classes", he means specifically necro.

Funny just a few minutes ago I saw a lfg for full clear asking for heal scourge..Condi scourge or power reaper are also accepted in many bosses.

So I would think that necro have lots of chances to raid.

I don't know, to me it looks like this thread is 2 years late. Before was true, many classes couldn't join any raid group.I still remember when I couldn't raid with guardian, necro, and rev was out of raids for a long time too.

But now after many nerfs and buffs you can do raid with any class you want.

Laila Lightness.8742 · October 4, 2018

Solution make all buffs personal with heals then no roles can exist since we would all have to watch for our own character (as long there is team play there will be metas and metas adds roles to specialise in 1 area wich is lacked by the other people in the team.)

Cyninja.2954 · October 4, 2018

@Laila Lightness.8742 said:Solution make all buffs personal with heals then no roles can exist since we would all have to watch for our own character (as long there is team play there will be metas and metas adds roles to specialise in 1 area wich is lacked by the other people in the team.)

Which then turns into a pure dps race which class can do the most damage while effectively performing their job. So essentially what is already meta for 6 out of 10 spots in raids. With a lot of uniqueness and depth taken out of the game. Is it worth to lose this much only to potentially open up the last 4 spots and make it 10 dps raids?

Laila Lightness.8742 · October 4, 2018

@Cyninja.2954 said:
@Laila Lightness.8742 said:Solution make all buffs personal with heals then no roles can exist since we would all have to watch for our own character (as long there is team play there will be metas and metas adds roles to specialise in 1 area wich is lacked by the other people in the team.)

Which then turns into a pure dps race which class can do the most damage while effectively performing their job. So essentially what is already meta for 6 out of 10 spots in raids. With a lot of uniqueness and depth taken out of the game. Is it worth to lose this much only to potentially open up the last 4 spots and make it 10 dps raids?

I was not even serius with that suggestion the stuff in () showed the reason why trinities exist and i used an ironic suggestion i think they should even some parts of those 3a bit out. But a true trinity would never work in gw 2

Zunki.3916 · October 4, 2018

There is mainly one thing that is wrong in GW2 PvE: The design of the buffing mechanics. The problem is we want every offensive buff permanent, and while there are multiple ways to achieve this in the most recent patches, at start it was only one viable way to do so.

Stuff like banner buffs should be normalized with other classes exclusive buffs and not be stacking.Also alacrity and quickness should be wider spread. If you design the buffs so everyone wants those 2 at 100%, you must ensure that it's easily acessible (just like 25 might is right now).

The trinity is a good thing for 10man PvE, as it opens up the possible boss mechanics by a huge amount. There is a reason the trinity exists. Having dedicated roles in encounters feels great. Classic dungeons having only a zerker zerg meta without any mechanics was what drove me away of gw2 in the first place.

Cyninja.2954 · October 4, 2018

@Laila Lightness.8742 said:
@Cyninja.2954 said:
@Laila Lightness.8742 said:Solution make all buffs personal with heals then no roles can exist since we would all have to watch for our own character (as long there is team play there will be metas and metas adds roles to specialise in 1 area wich is lacked by the other people in the team.)

Which then turns into a pure dps race which class can do the most damage while effectively performing their job. So essentially what is already meta for 6 out of 10 spots in raids. With a lot of uniqueness and depth taken out of the game. Is it worth to lose this much only to potentially open up the last 4 spots and make it 10 dps raids?

I was not even serius with that suggestion the stuff in () showed the reason why trinities exist and i used an ironic suggestion i think they should even some parts of those 3a bit out. But a true trinity would never work in gw 2

I wasn't criticizing, simply pointing out what the likely result would be. It would change up the game a lot and I honestly wonder if it would be worth the price.

Removing boons and other support options would allow for a vastly different spvp experience. Not sure it would be enough to make spvp great, but maybe enough to make it good.

It is a far stretch though, I doubt Arenanet are going to remove this much from support roles. This is after all a MMO where group synergy is supposed to be a factor.

Nimon.7840 · October 5, 2018

@Zunki.3916 said:There is mainly one thing that is wrong in GW2 PvE: The design of the buffing mechanics. The problem is we want every offensive buff permanent, and while there are multiple ways to achieve this in the most recent patches, at start it was only one viable way to do so.
Stuff like banner buffs should be normalized with other classes exclusive buffs and not be stacking.Also alacrity and quickness should be wider spread. If you design the buffs so everyone wants those 2 at 100%, you must ensure that it's easily acessible (just like 25 might is right now).
The trinity is a good thing for 10man PvE, as it opens up the possible boss mechanics by a huge amount. There is a reason the trinity exists. Having dedicated roles in encounters feels great. Classic dungeons having only a zerker zerg meta without any mechanics was what drove me away of gw2 in the first place.

I'm not against buffers and healers and dmg dealers.But it's really annoying that you have to take mesmer, ranger and warrior to maximize dmg.

Banners should be taken away, as well as the ghosts. And then give some more classes the ability to give boons like alacrity and quickness to the party.

Maybe something like:Quickness firebrand + alacrity renegade, but then, a lot of other boons will be missing.

Laila Lightness.8742 · October 5, 2018

@Nimon.7840 said:
@Zunki.3916 said:There is mainly one thing that is wrong in GW2 PvE: The design of the buffing mechanics. The problem is we want every offensive buff permanent, and while there are multiple ways to achieve this in the most recent patches, at start it was only one viable way to do so.
Stuff like banner buffs should be normalized with other classes exclusive buffs and not be stacking.Also alacrity and quickness should be wider spread. If you design the buffs so everyone wants those 2 at 100%, you must ensure that it's easily acessible (just like 25 might is right now).
The trinity is a good thing for 10man PvE, as it opens up the possible boss mechanics by a huge amount. There is a reason the trinity exists. Having dedicated roles in encounters feels great. Classic dungeons having only a zerker zerg meta without any mechanics was what drove me away of gw2 in the first place.

I'm not against buffers and healers and dmg dealers.But it's really annoying that you have to take mesmer, ranger and warrior to maximize dmg.

Banners should be taken away, as well as the ghosts. And then give some more classes the ability to give boons like alacrity and quickness to the party.

Maybe something like:Quickness firebrand + alacrity renegade, but then, a lot of other boons will be missing.

Then those classes who was previus would be blocked from raids sorry but you cant have bot of ideas viable (specially ranger for its dps is to low normally compared to rest druid with spirits is only reason its allowed in raids to begin with for herald can provide same amouth might and fury with facets +traits) better option is to add same abillities to firebrand renegade is held back by energy mechanic since it limits their abillities solution for that is for anet to remove cds from revenant to trade for if rev focus on alarcity its cant do much else since it cost alot of energy.

Nimon.7840 · October 5, 2018

@Laila Lightness.8742 said:
@Nimon.7840 said:
@Zunki.3916 said:There is mainly one thing that is wrong in GW2 PvE: The design of the buffing mechanics. The problem is we want every offensive buff permanent, and while there are multiple ways to achieve this in the most recent patches, at start it was only one viable way to do so.
Stuff like banner buffs should be normalized with other classes exclusive buffs and not be stacking.Also alacrity and quickness should be wider spread. If you design the buffs so everyone wants those 2 at 100%, you must ensure that it's easily acessible (just like 25 might is right now).
The trinity is a good thing for 10man PvE, as it opens up the possible boss mechanics by a huge amount. There is a reason the trinity exists. Having dedicated roles in encounters feels great. Classic dungeons having only a zerker zerg meta without any mechanics was what drove me away of gw2 in the first place.

I'm not against buffers and healers and dmg dealers.But it's really annoying that you have to take mesmer, ranger and warrior to maximize dmg.

Banners should be taken away, as well as the ghosts. And then give some more classes the ability to give boons like alacrity and quickness to the party.

Maybe something like:Quickness firebrand + alacrity renegade, but then, a lot of other boons will be missing.

Then those classes who was previus would be blocked from raids sorry but you cant have bot of ideas viable (specially ranger for its dps is to low normally compared to rest druid with spirits is only reason its allowed in raids to begin with for herald can provide same amouth might and fury with facets +traits)

No they wouldn't.Mesmer should keep his ability to boonshare.

Also if I look at sc benchmarks, ranger is a pretty good DPS option.And don't tell me, as a necro main, that a class wouldn't be taken.What about necro then? It would still need buffs to be viable.But it seems like everyone is ok with necro not being as good as almost all other classes. But other classes can't be not so good?

Doesn't make sense

Laila Lightness.8742 · October 5, 2018

@Nimon.7840 said:
@Laila Lightness.8742 said:
@Nimon.7840 said:
@Zunki.3916 said:There is mainly one thing that is wrong in GW2 PvE: The design of the buffing mechanics. The problem is we want every offensive buff permanent, and while there are multiple ways to achieve this in the most recent patches, at start it was only one viable way to do so.
Stuff like banner buffs should be normalized with other classes exclusive buffs and not be stacking.Also alacrity and quickness should be wider spread. If you design the buffs so everyone wants those 2 at 100%, you must ensure that it's easily acessible (just like 25 might is right now).
The trinity is a good thing for 10man PvE, as it opens up the possible boss mechanics by a huge amount. There is a reason the trinity exists. Having dedicated roles in encounters feels great. Classic dungeons having only a zerker zerg meta without any mechanics was what drove me away of gw2 in the first place.

I'm not against buffers and healers and dmg dealers.But it's really annoying that you have to take mesmer, ranger and warrior to maximize dmg.

Banners should be taken away, as well as the ghosts. And then give some more classes the ability to give boons like alacrity and quickness to the party.

Maybe something like:Quickness firebrand + alacrity renegade, but then, a lot of other boons will be missing.

Then those classes who was previus would be blocked from raids sorry but you cant have bot of ideas viable (specially ranger for its dps is to low normally compared to rest druid with spirits is only reason its allowed in raids to begin with for herald can provide same amouth might and fury with facets +traits)

No they wouldn't.Mesmer should keep his ability to boonshare.

Also if I look at sc benchmarks, ranger is a pretty good DPS option.And don't tell me, as a necro main, that a class wouldn't be taken.What about necro then? It would still need buffs to be viable.But it seems like everyone is ok with necro not being as good as almost all other classes. But other classes can't be not so good?

Doesn't make sense

Main reason is necro dont add much to group wich others dont do better they are used in raids mainly there conditiin dmg is good but they dont add much to dmg and a lack (i wish they would rework necro to get more mobility and dmg and more group friendly. Ranger .chrono is best synergy i dont think weakening them would help instead buff others to same level

Nimon.7840 · October 5, 2018

@Laila Lightness.8742 said:
@Nimon.7840 said:
@Laila Lightness.8742 said:
@Nimon.7840 said:
@Zunki.3916 said:There is mainly one thing that is wrong in GW2 PvE: The design of the buffing mechanics. The problem is we want every offensive buff permanent, and while there are multiple ways to achieve this in the most recent patches, at start it was only one viable way to do so.
Stuff like banner buffs should be normalized with other classes exclusive buffs and not be stacking.Also alacrity and quickness should be wider spread. If you design the buffs so everyone wants those 2 at 100%, you must ensure that it's easily acessible (just like 25 might is right now).
The trinity is a good thing for 10man PvE, as it opens up the possible boss mechanics by a huge amount. There is a reason the trinity exists. Having dedicated roles in encounters feels great. Classic dungeons having only a zerker zerg meta without any mechanics was what drove me away of gw2 in the first place.

I'm not against buffers and healers and dmg dealers.But it's really annoying that you have to take mesmer, ranger and warrior to maximize dmg.

Banners should be taken away, as well as the ghosts. And then give some more classes the ability to give boons like alacrity and quickness to the party.

Maybe something like:Quickness firebrand + alacrity renegade, but then, a lot of other boons will be missing.

Then those classes who was previus would be blocked from raids sorry but you cant have bot of ideas viable (specially ranger for its dps is to low normally compared to rest druid with spirits is only reason its allowed in raids to begin with for herald can provide same amouth might and fury with facets +traits)

No they wouldn't.Mesmer should keep his ability to boonshare.

Also if I look at sc benchmarks, ranger is a pretty good DPS option.And don't tell me, as a necro main, that a class wouldn't be taken.What about necro then? It would still need buffs to be viable.But it seems like everyone is ok with necro not being as good as almost all other classes. But other classes can't be not so good?

Doesn't make sense

Main reason is necro dont add much to group wich others dont do better they are used in raids mainly there conditiin dmg is good but they dont add much to dmg and a lack (i wish they would rework necro to get more mobility and dmg and more group friendly. Ranger .chrono is best synergy i dont think weakening them would help instead buff others to same level. But that would require that the buffs of other classes would work the exact same way. Or you have to add something like: people affected by spirits cannot be affected by the same type of the other skill.Like, for example revenant gets a skill that works the exact same way frost spirit does, then people cannot be affected by both at the same time.

Makes sense. Yeah, nerfing chrono and druid might be very bad. But buffing other classes would make sense.Iam wishing a necro rework for a long time now.

Cyninja.2954 · October 5, 2018

@Nimon.7840 said:
@Laila Lightness.8742 said:
@Nimon.7840 said:
@Laila Lightness.8742 said:
@Nimon.7840 said:
@"Zunki.3916" said:There is mainly one thing that is wrong in GW2 PvE: The design of the buffing mechanics. The problem is we want every offensive buff permanent, and while there are multiple ways to achieve this in the most recent patches, at start it was only one viable way to do so.
Stuff like banner buffs should be normalized with other classes exclusive buffs and not be stacking.Also alacrity and quickness should be wider spread. If you design the buffs so everyone wants those 2 at 100%, you must ensure that it's easily acessible (just like 25 might is right now).
The trinity is a good thing for 10man PvE, as it opens up the possible boss mechanics by a huge amount. There is a reason the trinity exists. Having dedicated roles in encounters feels great. Classic dungeons having only a zerker zerg meta without any mechanics was what drove me away of gw2 in the first place.

I'm not against buffers and healers and dmg dealers.But it's really annoying that you have to take mesmer, ranger and warrior to maximize dmg.

Banners should be taken away, as well as the ghosts. And then give some more classes the ability to give boons like alacrity and quickness to the party.

Maybe something like:Quickness firebrand + alacrity renegade, but then, a lot of other boons will be missing.

Then those classes who was previus would be blocked from raids sorry but you cant have bot of ideas viable (specially ranger for its dps is to low normally compared to rest druid with spirits is only reason its allowed in raids to begin with for herald can provide same amouth might and fury with facets +traits)

No they wouldn't.Mesmer should keep his ability to boonshare.

Also if I look at sc benchmarks, ranger is a pretty good DPS option.And don't tell me, as a necro main, that a class wouldn't be taken.What about necro then? It would still need buffs to be viable.But it seems like everyone is ok with necro not being as good as almost all other classes. But other classes can't be not so good?

Doesn't make sense

Main reason is necro dont add much to group wich others dont do better they are used in raids mainly there conditiin dmg is good but they dont add much to dmg and a lack (i wish they would rework necro to get more mobility and dmg and more group friendly. Ranger .chrono is best synergy i dont think weakening them would help instead buff others to same level. But that would require that the buffs of other classes would work the exact same way. Or you have to add something like: people affected by spirits cannot be affected by the same type of the other skill.Like, for example revenant gets a skill that works the exact same way frost spirit does, then people cannot be affected by both at the same time.

Makes sense. Yeah, nerfing chrono and druid might be very bad. But buffing other classes would make sense.Iam wishing a necro rework for a long time now.

This necro whining is getting old. Where were you when necro epic share was meta on some bosses and even broke Dhuum CM? What"s with necro dominance in WvW for what, 6 years now?

Necro is fine for clearing raids. If you have issues with playing your necro in raids, your first approach should be to find a guild with people to play with who are not elitist perfectionists. Whining on the forums will get you no where, especially since necro is by far not in that terrible a spot as you want to make it out to be.

TL;DR: you not getting taken on necro in raids has a lot to do with your approach to raids

Nimon.7840 · October 5, 2018

@Cyninja.2954 said:
@Nimon.7840 said:
@Laila Lightness.8742 said:
@Nimon.7840 said:
@Laila Lightness.8742 said:
@Nimon.7840 said:
@"Zunki.3916" said:There is mainly one thing that is wrong in GW2 PvE: The design of the buffing mechanics. The problem is we want every offensive buff permanent, and while there are multiple ways to achieve this in the most recent patches, at start it was only one viable way to do so.
Stuff like banner buffs should be normalized with other classes exclusive buffs and not be stacking.Also alacrity and quickness should be wider spread. If you design the buffs so everyone wants those 2 at 100%, you must ensure that it's easily acessible (just like 25 might is right now).
The trinity is a good thing for 10man PvE, as it opens up the possible boss mechanics by a huge amount. There is a reason the trinity exists. Having dedicated roles in encounters feels great. Classic dungeons having only a zerker zerg meta without any mechanics was what drove me away of gw2 in the first place.

I'm not against buffers and healers and dmg dealers.But it's really annoying that you have to take mesmer, ranger and warrior to maximize dmg.

Banners should be taken away, as well as the ghosts. And then give some more classes the ability to give boons like alacrity and quickness to the party.

Maybe something like:Quickness firebrand + alacrity renegade, but then, a lot of other boons will be missing.

Then those classes who was previus would be blocked from raids sorry but you cant have bot of ideas viable (specially ranger for its dps is to low normally compared to rest druid with spirits is only reason its allowed in raids to begin with for herald can provide same amouth might and fury with facets +traits)

No they wouldn't.Mesmer should keep his ability to boonshare.

Also if I look at sc benchmarks, ranger is a pretty good DPS option.And don't tell me, as a necro main, that a class wouldn't be taken.What about necro then? It would still need buffs to be viable.But it seems like everyone is ok with necro not being as good as almost all other classes. But other classes can't be not so good?

Doesn't make sense

Main reason is necro dont add much to group wich others dont do better they are used in raids mainly there conditiin dmg is good but they dont add much to dmg and a lack (i wish they would rework necro to get more mobility and dmg and more group friendly. Ranger .chrono is best synergy i dont think weakening them would help instead buff others to same level. But that would require that the buffs of other classes would work the exact same way. Or you have to add something like: people affected by spirits cannot be affected by the same type of the other skill.Like, for example revenant gets a skill that works the exact same way frost spirit does, then people cannot be affected by both at the same time.

Makes sense. Yeah, nerfing chrono and druid might be very bad. But buffing other classes would make sense.Iam wishing a necro rework for a long time now.

This necro whining is getting old. Where were you when necro epic share was meta on some bosses and even broke Dhuum CM? What"s with necro dominance in WvW for what, 6 years now?

Necro is fine for clearing raids. If you have issues with playing your necro in raids, your first approach should be to find a guild with people to play with who are not elitist perfectionists. Whining on the forums will get you no where, especially since necro is by far not in that terrible a spot as you want to make it out to be.

TL;DR: you not getting taken on necro in raids has a lot to do with your approach to raids

Not really. I got my raid group. And they allow me to play necro.But I feel very bad if I'm like 4-5k behind the other DPS players. But that's not due to me playing bad. That's due to DPS potential.

And I was playing with epibounce. We even did before it got popular. And it clearly was too strong.But double nerfing it?It got nerfed by duration and by nerfing almost all other Condi specs.

Just another 1 or 2 k DPS and necro would be fine.

And I could also ask, where were you when core game dungeon runs were a thing?No necro ever there.And raids: outside of buggs and unintended things, has he ever been meta there? - no

While mesmer is super good support, and very good at roaming, same goes for ranger, and it even got a good DPS spec.Guard: wvw meta since year 2000. And also very good DPS specWarrior: wvw meta for bubbles, before it was for banner rezz, now it's support/dps meta as well in raidsThief: super good roamer, very good in raids (ok it had its downtime as well)

Shall I go on?

I hope you see, that you didn't really make a point here.Also I could say, the necro hate gets old

LadyKitty.6120 · October 5, 2018

It's not even a balance problem anymore now that most classes have similar/superior boon output and utility as druids. True, druids still have spotter and GoE which are mainly useful with some power specs in same sub. But soulbeast can take spirits for small personal dps loss and some other classes (namely herald, deadeye and tempest) can bring full might and fury for 10 with better radius than druid. And as rivals to double-druid comps, every heal class can bring full might and fury for 5 in actual raid situation if built and played properly. Tanking isn't really mentioning even as every class can do somewhat effectively, some just easier than others.It's just that...

people don't know alternatives better.
people don't know how to build alternatives properly (common mistake of making heal build that mainly heals without booning trying to replace druid that is only popular due to formerly superior boons).
people don't know how to play them due to previous 2 reasons making people think of them as mere memes and almost every alt. buildcrafter doing no. 2.
people are so stuck with the idea of chrono+druid mirror comp that they won't think of alternatives until those 2 are nerfed to ground for a while. Pls make spirits not an unique boon.Most of all, it's #4 that Kitty sees the most even now. And in case some want to argue about viability of tanks, boonbots and healers, you can check Kitty's youtube-channel to see that she can back her claims quite well with her 500ish vids of playing various builds :3

Cyninja.2954 · October 5, 2018

@Nimon.7840 said:
@Cyninja.2954 said:
@Nimon.7840 said:
@Laila Lightness.8742 said:
@Nimon.7840 said:
@Laila Lightness.8742 said:
@Nimon.7840 said:
@"Zunki.3916" said:There is mainly one thing that is wrong in GW2 PvE: The design of the buffing mechanics. The problem is we want every offensive buff permanent, and while there are multiple ways to achieve this in the most recent patches, at start it was only one viable way to do so.
Stuff like banner buffs should be normalized with other classes exclusive buffs and not be stacking.Also alacrity and quickness should be wider spread. If you design the buffs so everyone wants those 2 at 100%, you must ensure that it's easily acessible (just like 25 might is right now).
The trinity is a good thing for 10man PvE, as it opens up the possible boss mechanics by a huge amount. There is a reason the trinity exists. Having dedicated roles in encounters feels great. Classic dungeons having only a zerker zerg meta without any mechanics was what drove me away of gw2 in the first place.

I'm not against buffers and healers and dmg dealers.But it's really annoying that you have to take mesmer, ranger and warrior to maximize dmg.

Banners should be taken away, as well as the ghosts. And then give some more classes the ability to give boons like alacrity and quickness to the party.

Maybe something like:Quickness firebrand + alacrity renegade, but then, a lot of other boons will be missing.

Then those classes who was previus would be blocked from raids sorry but you cant have bot of ideas viable (specially ranger for its dps is to low normally compared to rest druid with spirits is only reason its allowed in raids to begin with for herald can provide same amouth might and fury with facets +traits)

No they wouldn't.Mesmer should keep his ability to boonshare.

Also if I look at sc benchmarks, ranger is a pretty good DPS option.And don't tell me, as a necro main, that a class wouldn't be taken.What about necro then? It would still need buffs to be viable.But it seems like everyone is ok with necro not being as good as almost all other classes. But other classes can't be not so good?

Doesn't make sense

Main reason is necro dont add much to group wich others dont do better they are used in raids mainly there conditiin dmg is good but they dont add much to dmg and a lack (i wish they would rework necro to get more mobility and dmg and more group friendly. Ranger .chrono is best synergy i dont think weakening them would help instead buff others to same level. But that would require that the buffs of other classes would work the exact same way. Or you have to add something like: people affected by spirits cannot be affected by the same type of the other skill.Like, for example revenant gets a skill that works the exact same way frost spirit does, then people cannot be affected by both at the same time.

Makes sense. Yeah, nerfing chrono and druid might be very bad. But buffing other classes would make sense.Iam wishing a necro rework for a long time now.

This necro whining is getting old. Where were you when necro epic share was meta on some bosses and even broke Dhuum CM? What"s with necro dominance in WvW for what, 6 years now?

Necro is fine for clearing raids. If you have issues with playing your necro in raids, your first approach should be to find a guild with people to play with who are not elitist perfectionists. Whining on the forums will get you no where, especially since necro is by far not in that terrible a spot as you want to make it out to be.

TL;DR: you not getting taken on necro in raids has a lot to do with your approach to raids

Not really. I got my raid group. And they allow me to play necro.But I feel very bad if I'm like 4-5k behind the other DPS players. But that's not due to me playing bad. That's due to DPS potential.

And I was playing with epibounce. We even did before it got popular. And it clearly was too strong.But double nerfing it?It got nerfed by duration and by nerfing almost all other Condi specs.

Just another 1 or 2 k DPS and necro would be fine.

And I could also ask, where were you when core game dungeon runs were a thing?No necro ever there.And raids: outside of buggs and unintended things, has he ever been meta there? - no

Not in speedrun groups, but the class was far from unplayable. While being a force in WvW, always.

@Nimon.7840 said:
While mesmer is super good support, and very good at roaming, same goes for ranger, and it even got a good DPS spec.

and where were you when mesmer was last in dps for over 4 years (the entirety of vanilla and half of HoT), by miles. When the only reason to take mesmer was for portals and TW, and even that got phased out. When mesmer bugs were rivaling necro?

@Nimon.7840 said:Guard: wvw meta since year 2000. And also very good DPS spec

Guard was no where to be found in pve for almost the entirety of HoT, what are you talking about?

@Nimon.7840 said:Warrior: wvw meta for bubbles, before it was for banner rezz, now it's support/dps meta as well in raids

Yes, warrior has been in a good spot for a majority of time. One class will eventually always be. Interesting enough, warrior has one of the most basic and simplest designs mechanic wise. I wonder if that plays into that.

@Nimon.7840 said:Thief: super good roamer, very good in raids (ok it had its downtime as well)

Starting the patch where they got buffed right? The trash tier they were for 3 years doesn't count?

@Nimon.7840 said:
Shall I go on?
I hope you see, that you didn't really make a point here.Also I could say, the necro hate gets old

Please do, are you noticing how absolutely biased you are.

Also thanks for confirming that you can raid as necro. Your original post suggested otherwise.

EDIT: and no, that's not me saying necro is in a great spot raid demand wise. It's me saying stop the hyperbole.

Nimon.7840 · October 5, 2018

@Cyninja.2954 said:
@Nimon.7840 said:
@Cyninja.2954 said:
@Nimon.7840 said:
@Laila Lightness.8742 said:
@Nimon.7840 said:
@Laila Lightness.8742 said:
@Nimon.7840 said:
@"Zunki.3916" said:There is mainly one thing that is wrong in GW2 PvE: The design of the buffing mechanics. The problem is we want every offensive buff permanent, and while there are multiple ways to achieve this in the most recent patches, at start it was only one viable way to do so.
Stuff like banner buffs should be normalized with other classes exclusive buffs and not be stacking.Also alacrity and quickness should be wider spread. If you design the buffs so everyone wants those 2 at 100%, you must ensure that it's easily acessible (just like 25 might is right now).
The trinity is a good thing for 10man PvE, as it opens up the possible boss mechanics by a huge amount. There is a reason the trinity exists. Having dedicated roles in encounters feels great. Classic dungeons having only a zerker zerg meta without any mechanics was what drove me away of gw2 in the first place.

I'm not against buffers and healers and dmg dealers.But it's really annoying that you have to take mesmer, ranger and warrior to maximize dmg.

Banners should be taken away, as well as the ghosts. And then give some more classes the ability to give boons like alacrity and quickness to the party.

Maybe something like:Quickness firebrand + alacrity renegade, but then, a lot of other boons will be missing.

Then those classes who was previus would be blocked from raids sorry but you cant have bot of ideas viable (specially ranger for its dps is to low normally compared to rest druid with spirits is only reason its allowed in raids to begin with for herald can provide same amouth might and fury with facets +traits)

No they wouldn't.Mesmer should keep his ability to boonshare.

Also if I look at sc benchmarks, ranger is a pretty good DPS option.And don't tell me, as a necro main, that a class wouldn't be taken.What about necro then? It would still need buffs to be viable.But it seems like everyone is ok with necro not being as good as almost all other classes. But other classes can't be not so good?

Doesn't make sense

Main reason is necro dont add much to group wich others dont do better they are used in raids mainly there conditiin dmg is good but they dont add much to dmg and a lack (i wish they would rework necro to get more mobility and dmg and more group friendly. Ranger .chrono is best synergy i dont think weakening them would help instead buff others to same level. But that would require that the buffs of other classes would work the exact same way. Or you have to add something like: people affected by spirits cannot be affected by the same type of the other skill.Like, for example revenant gets a skill that works the exact same way frost spirit does, then people cannot be affected by both at the same time.

Makes sense. Yeah, nerfing chrono and druid might be very bad. But buffing other classes would make sense.Iam wishing a necro rework for a long time now.

This necro whining is getting old. Where were you when necro epic share was meta on some bosses and even broke Dhuum CM? What"s with necro dominance in WvW for what, 6 years now?

Necro is fine for clearing raids. If you have issues with playing your necro in raids, your first approach should be to find a guild with people to play with who are not elitist perfectionists. Whining on the forums will get you no where, especially since necro is by far not in that terrible a spot as you want to make it out to be.

TL;DR: you not getting taken on necro in raids has a lot to do with your approach to raids

Not really. I got my raid group. And they allow me to play necro.But I feel very bad if I'm like 4-5k behind the other DPS players. But that's not due to me playing bad. That's due to DPS potential.

And I was playing with epibounce. We even did before it got popular. And it clearly was too strong.But double nerfing it?It got nerfed by duration and by nerfing almost all other Condi specs.

Just another 1 or 2 k DPS and necro would be fine.

And I could also ask, where were you when core game dungeon runs were a thing?No necro ever there.And raids: outside of buggs and unintended things, has he ever been meta there? - no

Not in speedrun groups, but the class was far from unplayable. While being a force in WvW, always.

@Nimon.7840 said:
While mesmer is super good support, and very good at roaming, same goes for ranger, and it even got a good DPS spec.

and where were you when mesmer was last in dps for over 4 years (the entirety of vanilla and half of HoT), by miles. When the only reason to take mesmer was for portals and TW, and even that got phased out. When mesmer bugs were rivaling necro?

Hey, at least they got taken. It had at least some stealth, pull and portal. Necro didn't have anything, no DPS and no utility.

@Nimon.7840 said:Guard: wvw meta since year 2000. And also very good DPS spec

Guard was no where to be found in pve for almost the entirety of HoT, what are you talking about? Yeah it was ele meta and it sucked. But it wasn't that bad. Who is hyberboling now?

@Nimon.7840 said:Warrior: wvw meta for bubbles, before it was for banner rezz, now it's support/dps meta as well in raids

Yes, warrior has been in a good spot for a majority of time. One class will eventually always be. Interesting enough, warrior has one of the most basic and simplest designs mechanic wise. I wonder if that plays into that.

@Nimon.7840 said:Thief: super good roamer, very good in raids (ok it had its downtime as well)

Starting the patch where they got buffed right? The trash tier they were for 3 years doesn't count?Like I said. It had its downtime.

@Nimon.7840 said:
Shall I go on?
I hope you see, that you didn't really make a point here.Also I could say, the necro hate gets old

Please do, are you noticing how absolutely biased you are.

Also thanks for confirming that you can raid as necro. Your original post suggested otherwise.

EDIT: and no, that's not me saying necro is in a great spot raid demand wise. It's me saying stop the hyperbole.

If we do not hyperbole, there won't be any changes ever. That's been in guildwars and all other games. If you asked for a little qol things or little bit more dmg or something else even in other games, nothing changed if you didn't hyperbole even if all people agreed to the statement you did, without going over the top.

It doesn't even have to be more dmg. Just give scourge some more support options. That would be fine as well

Cyninja.2954 · October 5, 2018

@Nimon.7840 said:
@Cyninja.2954 said:
@Nimon.7840 said:
@Cyninja.2954 said:
@Nimon.7840 said:
@Laila Lightness.8742 said:
@Nimon.7840 said:
@Laila Lightness.8742 said:
@Nimon.7840 said:
@"Zunki.3916" said:There is mainly one thing that is wrong in GW2 PvE: The design of the buffing mechanics. The problem is we want every offensive buff permanent, and while there are multiple ways to achieve this in the most recent patches, at start it was only one viable way to do so.
Stuff like banner buffs should be normalized with other classes exclusive buffs and not be stacking.Also alacrity and quickness should be wider spread. If you design the buffs so everyone wants those 2 at 100%, you must ensure that it's easily acessible (just like 25 might is right now).
The trinity is a good thing for 10man PvE, as it opens up the possible boss mechanics by a huge amount. There is a reason the trinity exists. Having dedicated roles in encounters feels great. Classic dungeons having only a zerker zerg meta without any mechanics was what drove me away of gw2 in the first place.

I'm not against buffers and healers and dmg dealers.But it's really annoying that you have to take mesmer, ranger and warrior to maximize dmg.

Banners should be taken away, as well as the ghosts. And then give some more classes the ability to give boons like alacrity and quickness to the party.

Maybe something like:Quickness firebrand + alacrity renegade, but then, a lot of other boons will be missing.

Then those classes who was previus would be blocked from raids sorry but you cant have bot of ideas viable (specially ranger for its dps is to low normally compared to rest druid with spirits is only reason its allowed in raids to begin with for herald can provide same amouth might and fury with facets +traits)

No they wouldn't.Mesmer should keep his ability to boonshare.

Also if I look at sc benchmarks, ranger is a pretty good DPS option.And don't tell me, as a necro main, that a class wouldn't be taken.What about necro then? It would still need buffs to be viable.But it seems like everyone is ok with necro not being as good as almost all other classes. But other classes can't be not so good?

Doesn't make sense

Main reason is necro dont add much to group wich others dont do better they are used in raids mainly there conditiin dmg is good but they dont add much to dmg and a lack (i wish they would rework necro to get more mobility and dmg and more group friendly. Ranger .chrono is best synergy i dont think weakening them would help instead buff others to same level. But that would require that the buffs of other classes would work the exact same way. Or you have to add something like: people affected by spirits cannot be affected by the same type of the other skill.Like, for example revenant gets a skill that works the exact same way frost spirit does, then people cannot be affected by both at the same time.

Makes sense. Yeah, nerfing chrono and druid might be very bad. But buffing other classes would make sense.Iam wishing a necro rework for a long time now.

This necro whining is getting old. Where were you when necro epic share was meta on some bosses and even broke Dhuum CM? What"s with necro dominance in WvW for what, 6 years now?

Necro is fine for clearing raids. If you have issues with playing your necro in raids, your first approach should be to find a guild with people to play with who are not elitist perfectionists. Whining on the forums will get you no where, especially since necro is by far not in that terrible a spot as you want to make it out to be.

TL;DR: you not getting taken on necro in raids has a lot to do with your approach to raids

Not really. I got my raid group. And they allow me to play necro.But I feel very bad if I'm like 4-5k behind the other DPS players. But that's not due to me playing bad. That's due to DPS potential.

And I was playing with epibounce. We even did before it got popular. And it clearly was too strong.But double nerfing it?It got nerfed by duration and by nerfing almost all other Condi specs.

Just another 1 or 2 k DPS and necro would be fine.

And I could also ask, where were you when core game dungeon runs were a thing?No necro ever there.And raids: outside of buggs and unintended things, has he ever been meta there? - no

Not in speedrun groups, but the class was far from unplayable. While being a force in WvW, always.

@Nimon.7840 said:
While mesmer is super good support, and very good at roaming, same goes for ranger, and it even got a good DPS spec.

and where were you when mesmer was last in dps for over 4 years (the entirety of vanilla and half of HoT), by miles. When the only reason to take mesmer was for portals and TW, and even that got phased out. When mesmer bugs were rivaling necro?

Hey, at least they got taken. It had at least some stealth, pull and portal. Necro didn't have anything, no DPS and no utility.

@Nimon.7840 said:Guard: wvw meta since year 2000. And also very good DPS spec

Guard was no where to be found in pve for almost the entirety of HoT, what are you talking about? Yeah it was ele meta and it sucked. But it wasn't that bad. Who is hyberboling now?

@Nimon.7840 said:Warrior: wvw meta for bubbles, before it was for banner rezz, now it's support/dps meta as well in raids

Yes, warrior has been in a good spot for a majority of time. One class will eventually always be. Interesting enough, warrior has one of the most basic and simplest designs mechanic wise. I wonder if that plays into that.

@Nimon.7840 said:Thief: super good roamer, very good in raids (ok it had its downtime as well)

Starting the patch where they got buffed right? The trash tier they were for 3 years doesn't count?Like I said. It had its downtime.

@Nimon.7840 said:
Shall I go on?
I hope you see, that you didn't really make a point here.Also I could say, the necro hate gets old

Please do, are you noticing how absolutely biased you are.

Also thanks for confirming that you can raid as necro. Your original post suggested otherwise.

EDIT: and no, that's not me saying necro is in a great spot raid demand wise. It's me saying stop the hyperbole.

If we do not hyperbole, there won't be any changes ever. That's been in guildwars and all other games. If you asked for a little qol things or little bit more dmg or something else even in other games, nothing changed if you didn't hyperbole even if all people agreed to the statement you did, without going over the top.

It doesn't even have to be more dmg. Just give scourge some more support options. That would be fine as well

There is serious arguments, and there is hyperbole. Now you can go about which ever way you think is the most efficient but ask yourself this:

what would the reaction to your post have been if you had asked for some reasonable necromancer improvements, not lumped in the "go to we want them nerfed classes" and spun all that in over exaggeration?

My assumption is:A.) people's responses would have been far more productive and usefulB.) Arenanet's response would have been the same: none since they balance by metrics and the data they have

Nimon.7840 · October 5, 2018

@Cyninja.2954 said:
@Nimon.7840 said:
@Cyninja.2954 said:
@Nimon.7840 said:
@Cyninja.2954 said:
@Nimon.7840 said:
@Laila Lightness.8742 said:
@Nimon.7840 said:
@Laila Lightness.8742 said:
@Nimon.7840 said:
@"Zunki.3916" said:There is mainly one thing that is wrong in GW2 PvE: The design of the buffing mechanics. The problem is we want every offensive buff permanent, and while there are multiple ways to achieve this in the most recent patches, at start it was only one viable way to do so.
Stuff like banner buffs should be normalized with other classes exclusive buffs and not be stacking.Also alacrity and quickness should be wider spread. If you design the buffs so everyone wants those 2 at 100%, you must ensure that it's easily acessible (just like 25 might is right now).
The trinity is a good thing for 10man PvE, as it opens up the possible boss mechanics by a huge amount. There is a reason the trinity exists. Having dedicated roles in encounters feels great. Classic dungeons having only a zerker zerg meta without any mechanics was what drove me away of gw2 in the first place.

I'm not against buffers and healers and dmg dealers.But it's really annoying that you have to take mesmer, ranger and warrior to maximize dmg.

Banners should be taken away, as well as the ghosts. And then give some more classes the ability to give boons like alacrity and quickness to the party.

Maybe something like:Quickness firebrand + alacrity renegade, but then, a lot of other boons will be missing.

Then those classes who was previus would be blocked from raids sorry but you cant have bot of ideas viable (specially ranger for its dps is to low normally compared to rest druid with spirits is only reason its allowed in raids to begin with for herald can provide same amouth might and fury with facets +traits)

No they wouldn't.Mesmer should keep his ability to boonshare.

Also if I look at sc benchmarks, ranger is a pretty good DPS option.And don't tell me, as a necro main, that a class wouldn't be taken.What about necro then? It would still need buffs to be viable.But it seems like everyone is ok with necro not being as good as almost all other classes. But other classes can't be not so good?

Doesn't make sense

Main reason is necro dont add much to group wich others dont do better they are used in raids mainly there conditiin dmg is good but they dont add much to dmg and a lack (i wish they would rework necro to get more mobility and dmg and more group friendly. Ranger .chrono is best synergy i dont think weakening them would help instead buff others to same level. But that would require that the buffs of other classes would work the exact same way. Or you have to add something like: people affected by spirits cannot be affected by the same type of the other skill.Like, for example revenant gets a skill that works the exact same way frost spirit does, then people cannot be affected by both at the same time.

Makes sense. Yeah, nerfing chrono and druid might be very bad. But buffing other classes would make sense.Iam wishing a necro rework for a long time now.

This necro whining is getting old. Where were you when necro epic share was meta on some bosses and even broke Dhuum CM? What"s with necro dominance in WvW for what, 6 years now?

Necro is fine for clearing raids. If you have issues with playing your necro in raids, your first approach should be to find a guild with people to play with who are not elitist perfectionists. Whining on the forums will get you no where, especially since necro is by far not in that terrible a spot as you want to make it out to be.

TL;DR: you not getting taken on necro in raids has a lot to do with your approach to raids

Not really. I got my raid group. And they allow me to play necro.But I feel very bad if I'm like 4-5k behind the other DPS players. But that's not due to me playing bad. That's due to DPS potential.

And I was playing with epibounce. We even did before it got popular. And it clearly was too strong.But double nerfing it?It got nerfed by duration and by nerfing almost all other Condi specs.

Just another 1 or 2 k DPS and necro would be fine.

And I could also ask, where were you when core game dungeon runs were a thing?No necro ever there.And raids: outside of buggs and unintended things, has he ever been meta there? - no

Not in speedrun groups, but the class was far from unplayable. While being a force in WvW, always.

@Nimon.7840 said:
While mesmer is super good support, and very good at roaming, same goes for ranger, and it even got a good DPS spec.

and where were you when mesmer was last in dps for over 4 years (the entirety of vanilla and half of HoT), by miles. When the only reason to take mesmer was for portals and TW, and even that got phased out. When mesmer bugs were rivaling necro?

Hey, at least they got taken. It had at least some stealth, pull and portal. Necro didn't have anything, no DPS and no utility.

@Nimon.7840 said:Guard: wvw meta since year 2000. And also very good DPS spec

Guard was no where to be found in pve for almost the entirety of HoT, what are you talking about? Yeah it was ele meta and it sucked. But it wasn't that bad. Who is hyberboling now?

@Nimon.7840 said:Warrior: wvw meta for bubbles, before it was for banner rezz, now it's support/dps meta as well in raids

Yes, warrior has been in a good spot for a majority of time. One class will eventually always be. Interesting enough, warrior has one of the most basic and simplest designs mechanic wise. I wonder if that plays into that.

@Nimon.7840 said:Thief: super good roamer, very good in raids (ok it had its downtime as well)

Starting the patch where they got buffed right? The trash tier they were for 3 years doesn't count?Like I said. It had its downtime.

@Nimon.7840 said:
Shall I go on?
I hope you see, that you didn't really make a point here.Also I could say, the necro hate gets old

Please do, are you noticing how absolutely biased you are.

Also thanks for confirming that you can raid as necro. Your original post suggested otherwise.

EDIT: and no, that's not me saying necro is in a great spot raid demand wise. It's me saying stop the hyperbole.

If we do not hyperbole, there won't be any changes ever. That's been in guildwars and all other games. If you asked for a little qol things or little bit more dmg or something else even in other games, nothing changed if you didn't hyperbole even if all people agreed to the statement you did, without going over the top.

It doesn't even have to be more dmg. Just give scourge some more support options. That would be fine as well

There is serious arguments, and there is hyperbole. Now you can go about which ever way you think is the most efficient but ask yourself this:

what would the reaction to your post have been if you had asked for some reasonable necromancer improvements, not lumped in the "go to we want them nerfed classes" and spun all that in over exaggeration?

My assumption is:A.) people's responses would have been far more productive and usefulB.) Arenanet's response would have been the same: none since they balance by metrics and the data they have

Lul. Did u even read the post? This wasn't about necromancers... Lul

Cyninja.2954 · October 5, 2018

@Nimon.7840 said:
@Cyninja.2954 said:
@Nimon.7840 said:
@Cyninja.2954 said:
@Nimon.7840 said:
@Cyninja.2954 said:
@Nimon.7840 said:
@Laila Lightness.8742 said:
@Nimon.7840 said:
@Laila Lightness.8742 said:
@Nimon.7840 said:
@"Zunki.3916" said:There is mainly one thing that is wrong in GW2 PvE: The design of the buffing mechanics. The problem is we want every offensive buff permanent, and while there are multiple ways to achieve this in the most recent patches, at start it was only one viable way to do so.
Stuff like banner buffs should be normalized with other classes exclusive buffs and not be stacking.Also alacrity and quickness should be wider spread. If you design the buffs so everyone wants those 2 at 100%, you must ensure that it's easily acessible (just like 25 might is right now).
The trinity is a good thing for 10man PvE, as it opens up the possible boss mechanics by a huge amount. There is a reason the trinity exists. Having dedicated roles in encounters feels great. Classic dungeons having only a zerker zerg meta without any mechanics was what drove me away of gw2 in the first place.