Holy trinity - raids

[Cyndercat.7615]

@Nimon.7840 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Nimon.7840 said:

@Laila Lightness.8742 said:

@Nimon.7840 said:

@Laila Lightness.8742 said:

@Nimon.7840 said:

@"Zunki.3916" said:There is mainly one thing that is wrong in GW2 PvE: The design of the buffing mechanics. The problem is we want every offensive buff permanent, and while there are multiple ways to achieve this in the most recent patches, at start it was only one viable way to do so.

Stuff like banner buffs should be normalized with other classes exclusive buffs and not be stacking.Also alacrity and quickness should be wider spread. If you design the buffs so everyone wants those 2 at 100%, you must ensure that it's easily acessible (just like 25 might is right now).

The trinity is a good thing for 10man PvE, as it opens up the possible boss mechanics by a huge amount. There is a reason the trinity exists. Having dedicated roles in encounters feels great. Classic dungeons having only a zerker zerg meta without any mechanics was what drove me away of gw2 in the first place.

I'm not against buffers and healers and dmg dealers.But it's really annoying that you have to take mesmer, ranger and warrior to maximize dmg.

Banners should be taken away, as well as the ghosts. And then give some more classes the ability to give boons like alacrity and quickness to the party.

Maybe something like:Quickness firebrand + alacrity renegade, but then, a lot of other boons will be missing.

Then those classes who was previus would be blocked from raids sorry but you cant have bot of ideas viable (specially ranger for its dps is to low normally compared to rest druid with spirits is only reason its allowed in raids to begin with for herald can provide same amouth might and fury with facets +traits)

No they wouldn't.Mesmer should keep his ability to boonshare.

Also if I look at sc benchmarks, ranger is a pretty good DPS option.And don't tell me, as a necro main, that a class wouldn't be taken.What about necro then? It would still need buffs to be viable.But it seems like everyone is ok with necro not being as good as almost all other classes. But other classes can't be not so good?

Doesn't make sense

Main reason is necro dont add much to group wich others dont do better they are used in raids mainly there conditiin dmg is good but they dont add much to dmg and a lack (i wish they would rework necro to get more mobility and dmg and more group friendly. Ranger .chrono is best synergy i dont think weakening them would help instead buff others to same level. But that would require that the buffs of other classes would work the exact same way. Or you have to add something like: people affected by spirits cannot be affected by the same type of the other skill.Like, for example revenant gets a skill that works the exact same way frost spirit does, then people cannot be affected by both at the same time.

Makes sense. Yeah, nerfing chrono and druid might be very bad. But buffing other classes would make sense.Iam wishing a necro rework for a long time now.

This necro whining is getting old. Where were you when necro epic share was meta on some bosses and even broke Dhuum CM? What"s with necro dominance in WvW for what, 6 years now?

Necro is fine for clearing raids. If you have issues with playing your necro in raids, your first approach should be to find a guild with people to play with who are not elitist perfectionists. Whining on the forums will get you no where, especially since necro is by far not in that terrible a spot as you want to make it out to be.

TL;DR: you not getting taken on necro in raids has a lot to do with your approach to raids

Not really. I got my raid group. And they allow me to play necro.But I feel very bad if I'm like 4-5k behind the other DPS players. But that's not due to me playing bad. That's due to DPS potential.

And I was playing with epibounce. We even did before it got popular. And it clearly was too strong.But double nerfing it?It got nerfed by duration and by nerfing almost all other Condi specs.

Just another 1 or 2 k DPS and necro would be fine.

And I could also ask, where were you when core game dungeon runs were a thing?No necro ever there.And raids: outside of buggs and unintended things, has he ever been meta there? - no

While mesmer is super good support, and very good at roaming, same goes for ranger, and it even got a good DPS spec.Guard: wvw meta since year 2000. And also very good DPS specWarrior: wvw meta for bubbles, before it was for banner rezz, now it's support/dps meta as well in raidsThief: super good roamer, very good in raids (ok it had its downtime as well)

Shall I go on?

I hope you see, that you didn't really make a point here.Also I could say, the necro hate gets old

Heal scourge is a thing. Necro is more than welcome in raids as a secondary healer. Condi necro does less damage because it brings more utility through barriers, boonstrip and condi cleanse. Pugs dont mind you bringing reaper on power bosses now, as long as you can output near benchmark dps. Necro is still mandatory on desmina, and optimal on sabetha as kiter.

6 Necro was meta for a long time, but only in organised group so you didnt see them in pugs. They were still BIS and many speedclear records were broken with necro comps. So yes they were meta.

in dungeon meta times you were either warrior or mesmer. No other classes were accepted, so thats kinda irrelevant. I agree necro isnt wanted for min max raid comps but it is fine for majority of pug runs. Cant see where your claim that necro is unwanted is coming from, unless thngs are different in NA.

[Nimon.7840]

@zombyturtle.5980 said:

@Nimon.7840 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Nimon.7840 said:

@Laila Lightness.8742 said:

@Nimon.7840 said:

@Laila Lightness.8742 said:

@Nimon.7840 said:

@"Zunki.3916" said:There is mainly one thing that is wrong in GW2 PvE: The design of the buffing mechanics. The problem is we want every offensive buff permanent, and while there are multiple ways to achieve this in the most recent patches, at start it was only one viable way to do so.

Stuff like banner buffs should be normalized with other classes exclusive buffs and not be stacking.Also alacrity and quickness should be wider spread. If you design the buffs so everyone wants those 2 at 100%, you must ensure that it's easily acessible (just like 25 might is right now).

The trinity is a good thing for 10man PvE, as it opens up the possible boss mechanics by a huge amount. There is a reason the trinity exists. Having dedicated roles in encounters feels great. Classic dungeons having only a zerker zerg meta without any mechanics was what drove me away of gw2 in the first place.

I'm not against buffers and healers and dmg dealers.But it's really annoying that you have to take mesmer, ranger and warrior to maximize dmg.

Banners should be taken away, as well as the ghosts. And then give some more classes the ability to give boons like alacrity and quickness to the party.

Maybe something like:Quickness firebrand + alacrity renegade, but then, a lot of other boons will be missing.

Then those classes who was previus would be blocked from raids sorry but you cant have bot of ideas viable (specially ranger for its dps is to low normally compared to rest druid with spirits is only reason its allowed in raids to begin with for herald can provide same amouth might and fury with facets +traits)

No they wouldn't.Mesmer should keep his ability to boonshare.

Also if I look at sc benchmarks, ranger is a pretty good DPS option.And don't tell me, as a necro main, that a class wouldn't be taken.What about necro then? It would still need buffs to be viable.But it seems like everyone is ok with necro not being as good as almost all other classes. But other classes can't be not so good?

Doesn't make sense

Main reason is necro dont add much to group wich others dont do better they are used in raids mainly there conditiin dmg is good but they dont add much to dmg and a lack (i wish they would rework necro to get more mobility and dmg and more group friendly. Ranger .chrono is best synergy i dont think weakening them would help instead buff others to same level. But that would require that the buffs of other classes would work the exact same way. Or you have to add something like: people affected by spirits cannot be affected by the same type of the other skill.Like, for example revenant gets a skill that works the exact same way frost spirit does, then people cannot be affected by both at the same time.

Makes sense. Yeah, nerfing chrono and druid might be very bad. But buffing other classes would make sense.Iam wishing a necro rework for a long time now.

This necro whining is getting old. Where were you when necro epic share was meta on some bosses and even broke Dhuum CM? What"s with necro dominance in WvW for what, 6 years now?

Necro is fine for clearing raids. If you have issues with playing your necro in raids, your first approach should be to find a guild with people to play with who are not elitist perfectionists. Whining on the forums will get you no where, especially since necro is by far not in that terrible a spot as you want to make it out to be.

TL;DR: you not getting taken on necro in raids has a lot to do with your approach to raids

Not really. I got my raid group. And they allow me to play necro.But I feel very bad if I'm like 4-5k behind the other DPS players. But that's not due to me playing bad. That's due to DPS potential.

And I was playing with epibounce. We even did before it got popular. And it clearly was too strong.But double nerfing it?It got nerfed by duration and by nerfing almost all other Condi specs.

Just another 1 or 2 k DPS and necro would be fine.

And I could also ask, where were you when core game dungeon runs were a thing?No necro ever there.And raids: outside of buggs and unintended things, has he ever been meta there? - no

While mesmer is super good support, and very good at roaming, same goes for ranger, and it even got a good DPS spec.Guard: wvw meta since year 2000. And also very good DPS specWarrior: wvw meta for bubbles, before it was for banner rezz, now it's support/dps meta as well in raidsThief: super good roamer, very good in raids (ok it had its downtime as well)

Shall I go on?

I hope you see, that you didn't really make a point here.Also I could say, the necro hate gets old

Heal scourge is a thing. Necro is more than welcome in raids as a secondary healer. Condi necro does less damage because it brings more utility through barriers, boonstrip and condi cleanse. Pugs dont mind you bringing reaper on power bosses now, as long as you can output near benchmark dps. Necro is still mandatory on desmina, and optimal on sabetha as kiter.

6 Necro was meta for a long time, but only in organised group so you didnt see them in pugs. They were still BIS and many speedclear records were broken with necro comps. So yes they were meta.

in dungeon meta times you were either warrior or mesmer. No other classes were accepted, so thats kinda irrelevant. I agree necro isnt wanted for min max raid comps but it is fine for majority of pug runs. Cant see where your claim that necro is unwanted is coming from, unless thngs are different in NA.

Again. This shouldn't be about necro. It should be about having other classes as supporters, so that the supports now are also free to play DPSAnd that other classes get accepted as supporters

[Sephylon.4938]

@Nimon.7840 said:

@zombyturtle.5980 said:

@Nimon.7840 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Nimon.7840 said:

@Laila Lightness.8742 said:

@Nimon.7840 said:

@Laila Lightness.8742 said:

@Nimon.7840 said:

@"Zunki.3916" said:There is mainly one thing that is wrong in GW2 PvE: The design of the buffing mechanics. The problem is we want every offensive buff permanent, and while there are multiple ways to achieve this in the most recent patches, at start it was only one viable way to do so.

Stuff like banner buffs should be normalized with other classes exclusive buffs and not be stacking.Also alacrity and quickness should be wider spread. If you design the buffs so everyone wants those 2 at 100%, you must ensure that it's easily acessible (just like 25 might is right now).

The trinity is a good thing for 10man PvE, as it opens up the possible boss mechanics by a huge amount. There is a reason the trinity exists. Having dedicated roles in encounters feels great. Classic dungeons having only a zerker zerg meta without any mechanics was what drove me away of gw2 in the first place.

I'm not against buffers and healers and dmg dealers.But it's really annoying that you have to take mesmer, ranger and warrior to maximize dmg.

Banners should be taken away, as well as the ghosts. And then give some more classes the ability to give boons like alacrity and quickness to the party.

Maybe something like:Quickness firebrand + alacrity renegade, but then, a lot of other boons will be missing.

Then those classes who was previus would be blocked from raids sorry but you cant have bot of ideas viable (specially ranger for its dps is to low normally compared to rest druid with spirits is only reason its allowed in raids to begin with for herald can provide same amouth might and fury with facets +traits)

No they wouldn't.Mesmer should keep his ability to boonshare.

Also if I look at sc benchmarks, ranger is a pretty good DPS option.And don't tell me, as a necro main, that a class wouldn't be taken.What about necro then? It would still need buffs to be viable.But it seems like everyone is ok with necro not being as good as almost all other classes. But other classes can't be not so good?

Doesn't make sense

Main reason is necro dont add much to group wich others dont do better they are used in raids mainly there conditiin dmg is good but they dont add much to dmg and a lack (i wish they would rework necro to get more mobility and dmg and more group friendly. Ranger .chrono is best synergy i dont think weakening them would help instead buff others to same level. But that would require that the buffs of other classes would work the exact same way. Or you have to add something like: people affected by spirits cannot be affected by the same type of the other skill.Like, for example revenant gets a skill that works the exact same way frost spirit does, then people cannot be affected by both at the same time.

Makes sense. Yeah, nerfing chrono and druid might be very bad. But buffing other classes would make sense.Iam wishing a necro rework for a long time now.

This necro whining is getting old. Where were you when necro epic share was meta on some bosses and even broke Dhuum CM? What"s with necro dominance in WvW for what, 6 years now?

Necro is fine for clearing raids. If you have issues with playing your necro in raids, your first approach should be to find a guild with people to play with who are not elitist perfectionists. Whining on the forums will get you no where, especially since necro is by far not in that terrible a spot as you want to make it out to be.

TL;DR: you not getting taken on necro in raids has a lot to do with your approach to raids

Not really. I got my raid group. And they allow me to play necro.But I feel very bad if I'm like 4-5k behind the other DPS players. But that's not due to me playing bad. That's due to DPS potential.

And I was playing with epibounce. We even did before it got popular. And it clearly was too strong.But double nerfing it?It got nerfed by duration and by nerfing almost all other Condi specs.

Just another 1 or 2 k DPS and necro would be fine.

And I could also ask, where were you when core game dungeon runs were a thing?No necro ever there.And raids: outside of buggs and unintended things, has he ever been meta there? - no

While mesmer is super good support, and very good at roaming, same goes for ranger, and it even got a good DPS spec.Guard: wvw meta since year 2000. And also very good DPS specWarrior: wvw meta for bubbles, before it was for banner rezz, now it's support/dps meta as well in raidsThief: super good roamer, very good in raids (ok it had its downtime as well)

Shall I go on?

I hope you see, that you didn't really make a point here.Also I could say, the necro hate gets old

Heal scourge is a thing. Necro is more than welcome in raids as a secondary healer. Condi necro does less damage because it brings more utility through barriers, boonstrip and condi cleanse. Pugs dont mind you bringing reaper on power bosses now, as long as you can output near benchmark dps. Necro is still mandatory on desmina, and optimal on sabetha as kiter.

6 Necro was meta for a long time, but only in organised group so you didnt see them in pugs. They were still BIS and many speedclear records were broken with necro comps. So yes they were meta.

in dungeon meta times you were either warrior or mesmer. No other classes were accepted, so thats kinda irrelevant. I agree necro isnt wanted for min max raid comps but it is fine for majority of pug runs. Cant see where your claim that necro is unwanted is coming from, unless thngs are different in NA.

Again. This shouldn't be about necro. It should be about having other classes as supporters, so that the supports now are also free to play DPSAnd that other classes get accepted as supporters

They can already do that. If you're with a static just talk to them and try to work something out. There's also the chance that other people in the group want to try being the support too and you can swap roles with them. If you're pugging, just don't say you can chrono/druid.

[TamX.1870]

Necro, guard and ranger are professions. Scourge, Firebrand and Druid are basically builds for those professions. There are 3 build slots where you can pick one out of 7 choices, so you have 7x6x5 possibilities. For every slot, you can have three traits, which have three options, so you have 3x3x3 choices. Overall, every profession has 7x6x5x3x3x3 = 5670 different build options. You can't assume that every one of these perform equally: similarly you can't assume that every single elite spec performs equally.

I would vote for having specialized roles in PvE group content. If everyone are just all on their own doing DPS, the mechanics feel more like a having a bunch of bandits raiding the place. If you can have assigned roles in encounters, it starts to require some organization in the group, and tailor your characters to fit the rest of the team. This organization can't require too much coordination in fractals, but with raids you could expect people to have some practise, communications and ways to decide the roles the team members are fulfilling.

Personally, I would not tie professions and their specs to PvE roles. That would cause really hard balancing issues at PvP/WvW side. I could encourage role specialization at PvP side, too, of course, but for special PvE mechanics I would implement as encounter specific "props" or "buffs/debuffs" you can have team members to take. This way the needs for the PvE encounter would not break things at PvP side.

[Cyndercat.7615]

@Nimon.7840 said:

@zombyturtle.5980 said:

@Nimon.7840 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Nimon.7840 said:

@Laila Lightness.8742 said:

@Nimon.7840 said:

@Laila Lightness.8742 said:

@Nimon.7840 said:

@"Zunki.3916" said:There is mainly one thing that is wrong in GW2 PvE: The design of the buffing mechanics. The problem is we want every offensive buff permanent, and while there are multiple ways to achieve this in the most recent patches, at start it was only one viable way to do so.

Stuff like banner buffs should be normalized with other classes exclusive buffs and not be stacking.Also alacrity and quickness should be wider spread. If you design the buffs so everyone wants those 2 at 100%, you must ensure that it's easily acessible (just like 25 might is right now).

The trinity is a good thing for 10man PvE, as it opens up the possible boss mechanics by a huge amount. There is a reason the trinity exists. Having dedicated roles in encounters feels great. Classic dungeons having only a zerker zerg meta without any mechanics was what drove me away of gw2 in the first place.

I'm not against buffers and healers and dmg dealers.But it's really annoying that you have to take mesmer, ranger and warrior to maximize dmg.

Banners should be taken away, as well as the ghosts. And then give some more classes the ability to give boons like alacrity and quickness to the party.

Maybe something like:Quickness firebrand + alacrity renegade, but then, a lot of other boons will be missing.

Then those classes who was previus would be blocked from raids sorry but you cant have bot of ideas viable (specially ranger for its dps is to low normally compared to rest druid with spirits is only reason its allowed in raids to begin with for herald can provide same amouth might and fury with facets +traits)

No they wouldn't.Mesmer should keep his ability to boonshare.

Also if I look at sc benchmarks, ranger is a pretty good DPS option.And don't tell me, as a necro main, that a class wouldn't be taken.What about necro then? It would still need buffs to be viable.But it seems like everyone is ok with necro not being as good as almost all other classes. But other classes can't be not so good?

Doesn't make sense

Main reason is necro dont add much to group wich others dont do better they are used in raids mainly there conditiin dmg is good but they dont add much to dmg and a lack (i wish they would rework necro to get more mobility and dmg and more group friendly. Ranger .chrono is best synergy i dont think weakening them would help instead buff others to same level. But that would require that the buffs of other classes would work the exact same way. Or you have to add something like: people affected by spirits cannot be affected by the same type of the other skill.Like, for example revenant gets a skill that works the exact same way frost spirit does, then people cannot be affected by both at the same time.

Makes sense. Yeah, nerfing chrono and druid might be very bad. But buffing other classes would make sense.Iam wishing a necro rework for a long time now.

This necro whining is getting old. Where were you when necro epic share was meta on some bosses and even broke Dhuum CM? What"s with necro dominance in WvW for what, 6 years now?

Necro is fine for clearing raids. If you have issues with playing your necro in raids, your first approach should be to find a guild with people to play with who are not elitist perfectionists. Whining on the forums will get you no where, especially since necro is by far not in that terrible a spot as you want to make it out to be.

TL;DR: you not getting taken on necro in raids has a lot to do with your approach to raids

Not really. I got my raid group. And they allow me to play necro.But I feel very bad if I'm like 4-5k behind the other DPS players. But that's not due to me playing bad. That's due to DPS potential.

And I was playing with epibounce. We even did before it got popular. And it clearly was too strong.But double nerfing it?It got nerfed by duration and by nerfing almost all other Condi specs.

Just another 1 or 2 k DPS and necro would be fine.

And I could also ask, where were you when core game dungeon runs were a thing?No necro ever there.And raids: outside of buggs and unintended things, has he ever been meta there? - no

While mesmer is super good support, and very good at roaming, same goes for ranger, and it even got a good DPS spec.Guard: wvw meta since year 2000. And also very good DPS specWarrior: wvw meta for bubbles, before it was for banner rezz, now it's support/dps meta as well in raidsThief: super good roamer, very good in raids (ok it had its downtime as well)

Shall I go on?

I hope you see, that you didn't really make a point here.Also I could say, the necro hate gets old

Heal scourge is a thing. Necro is more than welcome in raids as a secondary healer. Condi necro does less damage because it brings more utility through barriers, boonstrip and condi cleanse. Pugs dont mind you bringing reaper on power bosses now, as long as you can output near benchmark dps. Necro is still mandatory on desmina, and optimal on sabetha as kiter.

6 Necro was meta for a long time, but only in organised group so you didnt see them in pugs. They were still BIS and many speedclear records were broken with necro comps. So yes they were meta.

in dungeon meta times you were either warrior or mesmer. No other classes were accepted, so thats kinda irrelevant. I agree necro isnt wanted for min max raid comps but it is fine for majority of pug runs. Cant see where your claim that necro is unwanted is coming from, unless thngs are different in NA.

Again. This shouldn't be about necro. It should be about having other classes as supporters, so that the supports now are also free to play DPSAnd that other classes get accepted as supporters

There are already many other classes that can be supporters. necro ele guardian revenant and engineer can all heal with the correct healing spec. guardian thief and revenant can also offer boon support. soulbeast can offer most of the unique buffs druid offers.

these options however dont bring the one size fits all approach to supporting and utilitg that druid and chrono bring and therefore comp may need to switch on a per boss basis to cover utility. which is more than pugs are willing to do

if you remove warrior banners you remove warrior from the meta unless its dps is buffed to levels of other classes. similarly if you give warrior banners to another class who brings more dps they will become mandatory and warrior will never be wanted. unless these 2 classes bring identical utility and dps pugs will just choose the one that brings most and ignore the other.

i also dont see how having 2 firebrand spots in a raid is any improvement over 2 chrono. it also drives out any space for other healers which makes some specializations redundant in raids as all they offer are heals.

you have to take into account chrono isnt taken solely for its buffs but also foror its godly utility. if you try and remove chrono you need to find this utility in other claases you bring. this creates a MORE strict comp requiring e.g only dps classes that bring alot of cc on samarog to cover the missing moas and pushes/ pulls from druid and chrono. chrono allowes more raid comp flexibility by covering most of the needed utility. take that away and you will see groups demanding 2 fb 1 renegade 2 guard for cc and aegis 1 sb for spirits. 1 pusher/ puller 1 banner buffer leaving only 2 spots left for other classes to actually dps in. this is way worse than what we have now.

[Axl.8924]

Its because some specs under perform in 1 or multiple things.

Tempest for instance is good as healer, but is outperformed in dps by weaver and its support while decent, still seems pretty niche.Scourge barrier is not that powerful but it can heal and rez pretty well and it got its damage gutted and its now sub par in both ways.

I'm not sure about nerfing chrono will fix it, because i think the issue is making these said 2 specs viable.

Also what about scrapper? scrappers are supposedly raid viable in buffing.They have excellent amounts of heals.

[Laila Lightness.8742]

@zombyturtle.5980 said:

@Nimon.7840 said:

@zombyturtle.5980 said:

@Nimon.7840 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Nimon.7840 said:

@Laila Lightness.8742 said:

@Nimon.7840 said:

@Laila Lightness.8742 said:

@Nimon.7840 said:

@"Zunki.3916" said:There is mainly one thing that is wrong in GW2 PvE: The design of the buffing mechanics. The problem is we want every offensive buff permanent, and while there are multiple ways to achieve this in the most recent patches, at start it was only one viable way to do so.

Stuff like banner buffs should be normalized with other classes exclusive buffs and not be stacking.Also alacrity and quickness should be wider spread. If you design the buffs so everyone wants those 2 at 100%, you must ensure that it's easily acessible (just like 25 might is right now).

The trinity is a good thing for 10man PvE, as it opens up the possible boss mechanics by a huge amount. There is a reason the trinity exists. Having dedicated roles in encounters feels great. Classic dungeons having only a zerker zerg meta without any mechanics was what drove me away of gw2 in the first place.

I'm not against buffers and healers and dmg dealers.But it's really annoying that you have to take mesmer, ranger and warrior to maximize dmg.

Banners should be taken away, as well as the ghosts. And then give some more classes the ability to give boons like alacrity and quickness to the party.

Maybe something like:Quickness firebrand + alacrity renegade, but then, a lot of other boons will be missing.

Then those classes who was previus would be blocked from raids sorry but you cant have bot of ideas viable (specially ranger for its dps is to low normally compared to rest druid with spirits is only reason its allowed in raids to begin with for herald can provide same amouth might and fury with facets +traits)

No they wouldn't.Mesmer should keep his ability to boonshare.

Also if I look at sc benchmarks, ranger is a pretty good DPS option.And don't tell me, as a necro main, that a class wouldn't be taken.What about necro then? It would still need buffs to be viable.But it seems like everyone is ok with necro not being as good as almost all other classes. But other classes can't be not so good?

Doesn't make sense

Main reason is necro dont add much to group wich others dont do better they are used in raids mainly there conditiin dmg is good but they dont add much to dmg and a lack (i wish they would rework necro to get more mobility and dmg and more group friendly. Ranger .chrono is best synergy i dont think weakening them would help instead buff others to same level. But that would require that the buffs of other classes would work the exact same way. Or you have to add something like: people affected by spirits cannot be affected by the same type of the other skill.Like, for example revenant gets a skill that works the exact same way frost spirit does, then people cannot be affected by both at the same time.

Makes sense. Yeah, nerfing chrono and druid might be very bad. But buffing other classes would make sense.Iam wishing a necro rework for a long time now.

This necro whining is getting old. Where were you when necro epic share was meta on some bosses and even broke Dhuum CM? What"s with necro dominance in WvW for what, 6 years now?

Necro is fine for clearing raids. If you have issues with playing your necro in raids, your first approach should be to find a guild with people to play with who are not elitist perfectionists. Whining on the forums will get you no where, especially since necro is by far not in that terrible a spot as you want to make it out to be.

TL;DR: you not getting taken on necro in raids has a lot to do with your approach to raids

Not really. I got my raid group. And they allow me to play necro.But I feel very bad if I'm like 4-5k behind the other DPS players. But that's not due to me playing bad. That's due to DPS potential.

And I was playing with epibounce. We even did before it got popular. And it clearly was too strong.But double nerfing it?It got nerfed by duration and by nerfing almost all other Condi specs.

Just another 1 or 2 k DPS and necro would be fine.

And I could also ask, where were you when core game dungeon runs were a thing?No necro ever there.And raids: outside of buggs and unintended things, has he ever been meta there? - no

While mesmer is super good support, and very good at roaming, same goes for ranger, and it even got a good DPS spec.Guard: wvw meta since year 2000. And also very good DPS specWarrior: wvw meta for bubbles, before it was for banner rezz, now it's support/dps meta as well in raidsThief: super good roamer, very good in raids (ok it had its downtime as well)

Shall I go on?

I hope you see, that you didn't really make a point here.Also I could say, the necro hate gets old

Heal scourge is a thing. Necro is more than welcome in raids as a secondary healer. Condi necro does less damage because it brings more utility through barriers, boonstrip and condi cleanse. Pugs dont mind you bringing reaper on power bosses now, as long as you can output near benchmark dps. Necro is still mandatory on desmina, and optimal on sabetha as kiter.

6 Necro was meta for a long time, but only in organised group so you didnt see them in pugs. They were still BIS and many speedclear records were broken with necro comps. So yes they were meta.

in dungeon meta times you were either warrior or mesmer. No other classes were accepted, so thats kinda irrelevant. I agree necro isnt wanted for min max raid comps but it is fine for majority of pug runs. Cant see where your claim that necro is unwanted is coming from, unless thngs are different in NA.

Again. This shouldn't be about necro. It should be about having other classes as supporters, so that the supports now are also free to play DPSAnd that other classes get accepted as supporters

There are already many other classes that can be supporters. necro ele guardian revenant and engineer can all heal with the correct healing spec. guardian thief and revenant can also offer boon support. soulbeast can offer most of the unique buffs druid offers.

these options however dont bring the one size fits all approach to supporting and utilitg that druid and chrono bring and therefore comp may need to switch on a per boss basis to cover utility. which is more than pugs are willing to do

if you remove warrior banners you remove warrior from the meta unless its dps is buffed to levels of other classes. similarly if you give warrior banners to another class who brings more dps they will become mandatory and warrior will never be wanted. unless these 2 classes bring identical utility and dps pugs will just choose the one that brings most and ignore the other.

i also dont see how having 2 firebrand spots in a raid is any improvement over 2 chrono. it also drives out any space for other healers which makes some specializations redundant in raids as all they offer are heals.

you have to take into account chrono isnt taken solely for its buffs but also foror its godly utility. if you try and remove chrono you need to find this utility in other claases you bring. this creates a MORE strict comp requiring e.g only dps classes that bring alot of cc on samarog to cover the missing moas and pushes/ pulls from druid and chrono. chrono allowes more raid comp flexibility by covering most of the needed utility. take that away and you will see groups demanding 2 fb 1 renegade 2 guard for cc and aegis 1 sb for spirits. 1 pusher/ puller 1 banner buffer leaving only 2 spots left for other classes to actually dps in. this is way worse than what we have now.

Soulbeast with spirits would be fairly low dps and honestly i dont see why 5% dmg buff is all that important. Druid is not very good for heals maybe time to skip healing role and take a herald for boons since it can now give perma might and perma fury too whole group

[Nimon.7840]

@Sephylon.4938 said:

@Nimon.7840 said:

@zombyturtle.5980 said:

@Nimon.7840 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Nimon.7840 said:

@Laila Lightness.8742 said:

@Nimon.7840 said:

@Laila Lightness.8742 said:

@Nimon.7840 said:

@"Zunki.3916" said:There is mainly one thing that is wrong in GW2 PvE: The design of the buffing mechanics. The problem is we want every offensive buff permanent, and while there are multiple ways to achieve this in the most recent patches, at start it was only one viable way to do so.

Stuff like banner buffs should be normalized with other classes exclusive buffs and not be stacking.Also alacrity and quickness should be wider spread. If you design the buffs so everyone wants those 2 at 100%, you must ensure that it's easily acessible (just like 25 might is right now).

The trinity is a good thing for 10man PvE, as it opens up the possible boss mechanics by a huge amount. There is a reason the trinity exists. Having dedicated roles in encounters feels great. Classic dungeons having only a zerker zerg meta without any mechanics was what drove me away of gw2 in the first place.

I'm not against buffers and healers and dmg dealers.But it's really annoying that you have to take mesmer, ranger and warrior to maximize dmg.

Banners should be taken away, as well as the ghosts. And then give some more classes the ability to give boons like alacrity and quickness to the party.

Maybe something like:Quickness firebrand + alacrity renegade, but then, a lot of other boons will be missing.

Then those classes who was previus would be blocked from raids sorry but you cant have bot of ideas viable (specially ranger for its dps is to low normally compared to rest druid with spirits is only reason its allowed in raids to begin with for herald can provide same amouth might and fury with facets +traits)

No they wouldn't.Mesmer should keep his ability to boonshare.

Also if I look at sc benchmarks, ranger is a pretty good DPS option.And don't tell me, as a necro main, that a class wouldn't be taken.What about necro then? It would still need buffs to be viable.But it seems like everyone is ok with necro not being as good as almost all other classes. But other classes can't be not so good?

Doesn't make sense

Main reason is necro dont add much to group wich others dont do better they are used in raids mainly there conditiin dmg is good but they dont add much to dmg and a lack (i wish they would rework necro to get more mobility and dmg and more group friendly. Ranger .chrono is best synergy i dont think weakening them would help instead buff others to same level. But that would require that the buffs of other classes would work the exact same way. Or you have to add something like: people affected by spirits cannot be affected by the same type of the other skill.Like, for example revenant gets a skill that works the exact same way frost spirit does, then people cannot be affected by both at the same time.

Makes sense. Yeah, nerfing chrono and druid might be very bad. But buffing other classes would make sense.Iam wishing a necro rework for a long time now.

This necro whining is getting old. Where were you when necro epic share was meta on some bosses and even broke Dhuum CM? What"s with necro dominance in WvW for what, 6 years now?

Necro is fine for clearing raids. If you have issues with playing your necro in raids, your first approach should be to find a guild with people to play with who are not elitist perfectionists. Whining on the forums will get you no where, especially since necro is by far not in that terrible a spot as you want to make it out to be.

TL;DR: you not getting taken on necro in raids has a lot to do with your approach to raids

Not really. I got my raid group. And they allow me to play necro.But I feel very bad if I'm like 4-5k behind the other DPS players. But that's not due to me playing bad. That's due to DPS potential.

And I was playing with epibounce. We even did before it got popular. And it clearly was too strong.But double nerfing it?It got nerfed by duration and by nerfing almost all other Condi specs.

Just another 1 or 2 k DPS and necro would be fine.

And I could also ask, where were you when core game dungeon runs were a thing?No necro ever there.And raids: outside of buggs and unintended things, has he ever been meta there? - no

While mesmer is super good support, and very good at roaming, same goes for ranger, and it even got a good DPS spec.Guard: wvw meta since year 2000. And also very good DPS specWarrior: wvw meta for bubbles, before it was for banner rezz, now it's support/dps meta as well in raidsThief: super good roamer, very good in raids (ok it had its downtime as well)

Shall I go on?

I hope you see, that you didn't really make a point here.Also I could say, the necro hate gets old

Heal scourge is a thing. Necro is more than welcome in raids as a secondary healer. Condi necro does less damage because it brings more utility through barriers, boonstrip and condi cleanse. Pugs dont mind you bringing reaper on power bosses now, as long as you can output near benchmark dps. Necro is still mandatory on desmina, and optimal on sabetha as kiter.

6 Necro was meta for a long time, but only in organised group so you didnt see them in pugs. They were still BIS and many speedclear records were broken with necro comps. So yes they were meta.

in dungeon meta times you were either warrior or mesmer. No other classes were accepted, so thats kinda irrelevant. I agree necro isnt wanted for min max raid comps but it is fine for majority of pug runs. Cant see where your claim that necro is unwanted is coming from, unless thngs are different in NA.

Again. This shouldn't be about necro. It should be about having other classes as supporters, so that the supports now are also free to play DPSAnd that other classes get accepted as supporters

They can already do that. If you're with a static just talk to them and try to work something out. There's also the chance that other people in the group want to try being the support too and you can swap roles with them. If you're pugging, just don't say you can chrono/druid.

In a static you can work something out yes. Like firebrand, rev.But that's 2 classes taken for the job, one class can do.

You will still need a druid and a warrior.

And that's exactly the point.

[ButcherofMalakir.4067]

@Laila Lightness.8742 said:

@zombyturtle.5980 said:

@Nimon.7840 said:

@zombyturtle.5980 said:

@Nimon.7840 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Nimon.7840 said:

@Laila Lightness.8742 said:

@Nimon.7840 said:

@Laila Lightness.8742 said:

@Nimon.7840 said:

@"Zunki.3916" said:There is mainly one thing that is wrong in GW2 PvE: The design of the buffing mechanics. The problem is we want every offensive buff permanent, and while there are multiple ways to achieve this in the most recent patches, at start it was only one viable way to do so.

Stuff like banner buffs should be normalized with other classes exclusive buffs and not be stacking.Also alacrity and quickness should be wider spread. If you design the buffs so everyone wants those 2 at 100%, you must ensure that it's easily acessible (just like 25 might is right now).

The trinity is a good thing for 10man PvE, as it opens up the possible boss mechanics by a huge amount. There is a reason the trinity exists. Having dedicated roles in encounters feels great. Classic dungeons having only a zerker zerg meta without any mechanics was what drove me away of gw2 in the first place.

I'm not against buffers and healers and dmg dealers.But it's really annoying that you have to take mesmer, ranger and warrior to maximize dmg.

Banners should be taken away, as well as the ghosts. And then give some more classes the ability to give boons like alacrity and quickness to the party.

Maybe something like:Quickness firebrand + alacrity renegade, but then, a lot of other boons will be missing.

Then those classes who was previus would be blocked from raids sorry but you cant have bot of ideas viable (specially ranger for its dps is to low normally compared to rest druid with spirits is only reason its allowed in raids to begin with for herald can provide same amouth might and fury with facets +traits)

No they wouldn't.Mesmer should keep his ability to boonshare.

Also if I look at sc benchmarks, ranger is a pretty good DPS option.And don't tell me, as a necro main, that a class wouldn't be taken.What about necro then? It would still need buffs to be viable.But it seems like everyone is ok with necro not being as good as almost all other classes. But other classes can't be not so good?

Doesn't make sense

Main reason is necro dont add much to group wich others dont do better they are used in raids mainly there conditiin dmg is good but they dont add much to dmg and a lack (i wish they would rework necro to get more mobility and dmg and more group friendly. Ranger .chrono is best synergy i dont think weakening them would help instead buff others to same level. But that would require that the buffs of other classes would work the exact same way. Or you have to add something like: people affected by spirits cannot be affected by the same type of the other skill.Like, for example revenant gets a skill that works the exact same way frost spirit does, then people cannot be affected by both at the same time.

Makes sense. Yeah, nerfing chrono and druid might be very bad. But buffing other classes would make sense.Iam wishing a necro rework for a long time now.

This necro whining is getting old. Where were you when necro epic share was meta on some bosses and even broke Dhuum CM? What"s with necro dominance in WvW for what, 6 years now?

Necro is fine for clearing raids. If you have issues with playing your necro in raids, your first approach should be to find a guild with people to play with who are not elitist perfectionists. Whining on the forums will get you no where, especially since necro is by far not in that terrible a spot as you want to make it out to be.

TL;DR: you not getting taken on necro in raids has a lot to do with your approach to raids

Not really. I got my raid group. And they allow me to play necro.But I feel very bad if I'm like 4-5k behind the other DPS players. But that's not due to me playing bad. That's due to DPS potential.

And I was playing with epibounce. We even did before it got popular. And it clearly was too strong.But double nerfing it?It got nerfed by duration and by nerfing almost all other Condi specs.

Just another 1 or 2 k DPS and necro would be fine.

And I could also ask, where were you when core game dungeon runs were a thing?No necro ever there.And raids: outside of buggs and unintended things, has he ever been meta there? - no

While mesmer is super good support, and very good at roaming, same goes for ranger, and it even got a good DPS spec.Guard: wvw meta since year 2000. And also very good DPS specWarrior: wvw meta for bubbles, before it was for banner rezz, now it's support/dps meta as well in raidsThief: super good roamer, very good in raids (ok it had its downtime as well)

Shall I go on?

I hope you see, that you didn't really make a point here.Also I could say, the necro hate gets old

Heal scourge is a thing. Necro is more than welcome in raids as a secondary healer. Condi necro does less damage because it brings more utility through barriers, boonstrip and condi cleanse. Pugs dont mind you bringing reaper on power bosses now, as long as you can output near benchmark dps. Necro is still mandatory on desmina, and optimal on sabetha as kiter.

6 Necro was meta for a long time, but only in organised group so you didnt see them in pugs. They were still BIS and many speedclear records were broken with necro comps. So yes they were meta.

in dungeon meta times you were either warrior or mesmer. No other classes were accepted, so thats kinda irrelevant. I agree necro isnt wanted for min max raid comps but it is fine for majority of pug runs. Cant see where your claim that necro is unwanted is coming from, unless thngs are different in NA.

Again. This shouldn't be about necro. It should be about having other classes as supporters, so that the supports now are also free to play DPSAnd that other classes get accepted as supporters

There are already many other classes that can be supporters. necro ele guardian revenant and engineer can all heal with the correct healing spec. guardian thief and revenant can also offer boon support. soulbeast can offer most of the unique buffs druid offers.

these options however dont bring the one size fits all approach to supporting and utilitg that druid and chrono bring and therefore comp may need to switch on a per boss basis to cover utility. which is more than pugs are willing to do

if you remove warrior banners you remove warrior from the meta unless its dps is buffed to levels of other classes. similarly if you give warrior banners to another class who brings more dps they will become mandatory and warrior will never be wanted. unless these 2 classes bring identical utility and dps pugs will just choose the one that brings most and ignore the other.

i also dont see how having 2 firebrand spots in a raid is any improvement over 2 chrono. it also drives out any space for other healers which makes some specializations redundant in raids as all they offer are heals.

you have to take into account chrono isnt taken solely for its buffs but also foror its godly utility. if you try and remove chrono you need to find this utility in other claases you bring. this creates a MORE strict comp requiring e.g only dps classes that bring alot of cc on samarog to cover the missing moas and pushes/ pulls from druid and chrono. chrono allowes more raid comp flexibility by covering most of the needed utility. take that away and you will see groups demanding 2 fb 1 renegade 2 guard for cc and aegis 1 sb for spirits. 1 pusher/ puller 1 banner buffer leaving only 2 spots left for other classes to actually dps in. this is way worse than what we have now.

Soulbeast with spirits would be fairly low dps and honestly i dont see why 5% dmg buff is all that important. Druid is not very good for heals maybe time to skip healing role and take a herald for boons since it can now give perma might and perma fury too whole group

In 150k dps squad, that 5 percent equals to ~7,5k dps. Herald cannot provide 25 might so there is no way it can replace druid and perma fury is worthless with chronos. Outside of much (much) better heals, herald has nothing to offer. Healing would be ok if you actualy needed it. Druid is the worst healer but he still brings more then enough heals.

[Sephylon.4938]

@Nimon.7840 said:

@Sephylon.4938 said:

@Nimon.7840 said:

@zombyturtle.5980 said:

@Nimon.7840 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Nimon.7840 said:

@Laila Lightness.8742 said:

@Nimon.7840 said:

@Laila Lightness.8742 said:

@Nimon.7840 said:

@"Zunki.3916" said:There is mainly one thing that is wrong in GW2 PvE: The design of the buffing mechanics. The problem is we want every offensive buff permanent, and while there are multiple ways to achieve this in the most recent patches, at start it was only one viable way to do so.

Stuff like banner buffs should be normalized with other classes exclusive buffs and not be stacking.Also alacrity and quickness should be wider spread. If you design the buffs so everyone wants those 2 at 100%, you must ensure that it's easily acessible (just like 25 might is right now).

The trinity is a good thing for 10man PvE, as it opens up the possible boss mechanics by a huge amount. There is a reason the trinity exists. Having dedicated roles in encounters feels great. Classic dungeons having only a zerker zerg meta without any mechanics was what drove me away of gw2 in the first place.

I'm not against buffers and healers and dmg dealers.But it's really annoying that you have to take mesmer, ranger and warrior to maximize dmg.

Banners should be taken away, as well as the ghosts. And then give some more classes the ability to give boons like alacrity and quickness to the party.

Maybe something like:Quickness firebrand + alacrity renegade, but then, a lot of other boons will be missing.

Then those classes who was previus would be blocked from raids sorry but you cant have bot of ideas viable (specially ranger for its dps is to low normally compared to rest druid with spirits is only reason its allowed in raids to begin with for herald can provide same amouth might and fury with facets +traits)

No they wouldn't.Mesmer should keep his ability to boonshare.

Also if I look at sc benchmarks, ranger is a pretty good DPS option.And don't tell me, as a necro main, that a class wouldn't be taken.What about necro then? It would still need buffs to be viable.But it seems like everyone is ok with necro not being as good as almost all other classes. But other classes can't be not so good?

Doesn't make sense

Main reason is necro dont add much to group wich others dont do better they are used in raids mainly there conditiin dmg is good but they dont add much to dmg and a lack (i wish they would rework necro to get more mobility and dmg and more group friendly. Ranger .chrono is best synergy i dont think weakening them would help instead buff others to same level. But that would require that the buffs of other classes would work the exact same way. Or you have to add something like: people affected by spirits cannot be affected by the same type of the other skill.Like, for example revenant gets a skill that works the exact same way frost spirit does, then people cannot be affected by both at the same time.

Makes sense. Yeah, nerfing chrono and druid might be very bad. But buffing other classes would make sense.Iam wishing a necro rework for a long time now.

This necro whining is getting old. Where were you when necro epic share was meta on some bosses and even broke Dhuum CM? What"s with necro dominance in WvW for what, 6 years now?

Necro is fine for clearing raids. If you have issues with playing your necro in raids, your first approach should be to find a guild with people to play with who are not elitist perfectionists. Whining on the forums will get you no where, especially since necro is by far not in that terrible a spot as you want to make it out to be.

TL;DR: you not getting taken on necro in raids has a lot to do with your approach to raids

Not really. I got my raid group. And they allow me to play necro.But I feel very bad if I'm like 4-5k behind the other DPS players. But that's not due to me playing bad. That's due to DPS potential.

And I was playing with epibounce. We even did before it got popular. And it clearly was too strong.But double nerfing it?It got nerfed by duration and by nerfing almost all other Condi specs.

Just another 1 or 2 k DPS and necro would be fine.

And I could also ask, where were you when core game dungeon runs were a thing?No necro ever there.And raids: outside of buggs and unintended things, has he ever been meta there? - no

While mesmer is super good support, and very good at roaming, same goes for ranger, and it even got a good DPS spec.Guard: wvw meta since year 2000. And also very good DPS specWarrior: wvw meta for bubbles, before it was for banner rezz, now it's support/dps meta as well in raidsThief: super good roamer, very good in raids (ok it had its downtime as well)

Shall I go on?

I hope you see, that you didn't really make a point here.Also I could say, the necro hate gets old

Heal scourge is a thing. Necro is more than welcome in raids as a secondary healer. Condi necro does less damage because it brings more utility through barriers, boonstrip and condi cleanse. Pugs dont mind you bringing reaper on power bosses now, as long as you can output near benchmark dps. Necro is still mandatory on desmina, and optimal on sabetha as kiter.

6 Necro was meta for a long time, but only in organised group so you didnt see them in pugs. They were still BIS and many speedclear records were broken with necro comps. So yes they were meta.

in dungeon meta times you were either warrior or mesmer. No other classes were accepted, so thats kinda irrelevant. I agree necro isnt wanted for min max raid comps but it is fine for majority of pug runs. Cant see where your claim that necro is unwanted is coming from, unless thngs are different in NA.

Again. This shouldn't be about necro. It should be about having other classes as supporters, so that the supports now are also free to play DPSAnd that other classes get accepted as supporters

They can already do that. If you're with a static just talk to them and try to work something out. There's also the chance that other people in the group want to try being the support too and you can swap roles with them. If you're pugging, just don't say you can chrono/druid.

In a static you can work something out yes. Like firebrand, rev.But that's 2 classes taken for the job, one class can do.

You will still need a druid and a warrior.

And that's exactly the point.

The only way to get what you want, as I see it, is to either make banners and spirits give generic boons rather than unique buffs, or to have other especs that give unique buffs that don't stack with either of those, or give future especs access to spirits/banners.

[Cyndercat.7615]

@Laila Lightness.8742 said:

@zombyturtle.5980 said:

@Nimon.7840 said:

@zombyturtle.5980 said:

@Nimon.7840 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Nimon.7840 said:

@Laila Lightness.8742 said:

@Nimon.7840 said:

@Laila Lightness.8742 said:

@Nimon.7840 said:

@"Zunki.3916" said:There is mainly one thing that is wrong in GW2 PvE: The design of the buffing mechanics. The problem is we want every offensive buff permanent, and while there are multiple ways to achieve this in the most recent patches, at start it was only one viable way to do so.

Stuff like banner buffs should be normalized with other classes exclusive buffs and not be stacking.Also alacrity and quickness should be wider spread. If you design the buffs so everyone wants those 2 at 100%, you must ensure that it's easily acessible (just like 25 might is right now).

The trinity is a good thing for 10man PvE, as it opens up the possible boss mechanics by a huge amount. There is a reason the trinity exists. Having dedicated roles in encounters feels great. Classic dungeons having only a zerker zerg meta without any mechanics was what drove me away of gw2 in the first place.

I'm not against buffers and healers and dmg dealers.But it's really annoying that you have to take mesmer, ranger and warrior to maximize dmg.

Banners should be taken away, as well as the ghosts. And then give some more classes the ability to give boons like alacrity and quickness to the party.

Maybe something like:Quickness firebrand + alacrity renegade, but then, a lot of other boons will be missing.

Then those classes who was previus would be blocked from raids sorry but you cant have bot of ideas viable (specially ranger for its dps is to low normally compared to rest druid with spirits is only reason its allowed in raids to begin with for herald can provide same amouth might and fury with facets +traits)

No they wouldn't.Mesmer should keep his ability to boonshare.

Also if I look at sc benchmarks, ranger is a pretty good DPS option.And don't tell me, as a necro main, that a class wouldn't be taken.What about necro then? It would still need buffs to be viable.But it seems like everyone is ok with necro not being as good as almost all other classes. But other classes can't be not so good?

Doesn't make sense

Main reason is necro dont add much to group wich others dont do better they are used in raids mainly there conditiin dmg is good but they dont add much to dmg and a lack (i wish they would rework necro to get more mobility and dmg and more group friendly. Ranger .chrono is best synergy i dont think weakening them would help instead buff others to same level. But that would require that the buffs of other classes would work the exact same way. Or you have to add something like: people affected by spirits cannot be affected by the same type of the other skill.Like, for example revenant gets a skill that works the exact same way frost spirit does, then people cannot be affected by both at the same time.

Makes sense. Yeah, nerfing chrono and druid might be very bad. But buffing other classes would make sense.Iam wishing a necro rework for a long time now.

This necro whining is getting old. Where were you when necro epic share was meta on some bosses and even broke Dhuum CM? What"s with necro dominance in WvW for what, 6 years now?

Necro is fine for clearing raids. If you have issues with playing your necro in raids, your first approach should be to find a guild with people to play with who are not elitist perfectionists. Whining on the forums will get you no where, especially since necro is by far not in that terrible a spot as you want to make it out to be.

TL;DR: you not getting taken on necro in raids has a lot to do with your approach to raids

Not really. I got my raid group. And they allow me to play necro.But I feel very bad if I'm like 4-5k behind the other DPS players. But that's not due to me playing bad. That's due to DPS potential.

And I was playing with epibounce. We even did before it got popular. And it clearly was too strong.But double nerfing it?It got nerfed by duration and by nerfing almost all other Condi specs.

Just another 1 or 2 k DPS and necro would be fine.

And I could also ask, where were you when core game dungeon runs were a thing?No necro ever there.And raids: outside of buggs and unintended things, has he ever been meta there? - no

While mesmer is super good support, and very good at roaming, same goes for ranger, and it even got a good DPS spec.Guard: wvw meta since year 2000. And also very good DPS specWarrior: wvw meta for bubbles, before it was for banner rezz, now it's support/dps meta as well in raidsThief: super good roamer, very good in raids (ok it had its downtime as well)

Shall I go on?

I hope you see, that you didn't really make a point here.Also I could say, the necro hate gets old

Heal scourge is a thing. Necro is more than welcome in raids as a secondary healer. Condi necro does less damage because it brings more utility through barriers, boonstrip and condi cleanse. Pugs dont mind you bringing reaper on power bosses now, as long as you can output near benchmark dps. Necro is still mandatory on desmina, and optimal on sabetha as kiter.

6 Necro was meta for a long time, but only in organised group so you didnt see them in pugs. They were still BIS and many speedclear records were broken with necro comps. So yes they were meta.

in dungeon meta times you were either warrior or mesmer. No other classes were accepted, so thats kinda irrelevant. I agree necro isnt wanted for min max raid comps but it is fine for majority of pug runs. Cant see where your claim that necro is unwanted is coming from, unless thngs are different in NA.

Again. This shouldn't be about necro. It should be about having other classes as supporters, so that the supports now are also free to play DPSAnd that other classes get accepted as supporters

There are already many other classes that can be supporters. necro ele guardian revenant and engineer can all heal with the correct healing spec. guardian thief and revenant can also offer boon support. soulbeast can offer most of the unique buffs druid offers.

these options however dont bring the one size fits all approach to supporting and utilitg that druid and chrono bring and therefore comp may need to switch on a per boss basis to cover utility. which is more than pugs are willing to do

if you remove warrior banners you remove warrior from the meta unless its dps is buffed to levels of other classes. similarly if you give warrior banners to another class who brings more dps they will become mandatory and warrior will never be wanted. unless these 2 classes bring identical utility and dps pugs will just choose the one that brings most and ignore the other.

i also dont see how having 2 firebrand spots in a raid is any improvement over 2 chrono. it also drives out any space for other healers which makes some specializations redundant in raids as all they offer are heals.

you have to take into account chrono isnt taken solely for its buffs but also foror its godly utility. if you try and remove chrono you need to find this utility in other claases you bring. this creates a MORE strict comp requiring e.g only dps classes that bring alot of cc on samarog to cover the missing moas and pushes/ pulls from druid and chrono. chrono allowes more raid comp flexibility by covering most of the needed utility. take that away and you will see groups demanding 2 fb 1 renegade 2 guard for cc and aegis 1 sb for spirits. 1 pusher/ puller 1 banner buffer leaving only 2 spots left for other classes to actually dps in. this is way worse than what we have now.

Soulbeast with spirits would be fairly low dps and honestly i dont see why 5% dmg buff is all that important. Druid is not very good for heals maybe time to skip healing role and take a herald for boons since it can now give perma might and perma fury too whole group

sb with spirits is already taken in fractal groups that dont use healer and while it loses around 1k-2k dps, its worth it overall.

[Astralporing.1957]

@"Nimon.7840" said:Again. This shouldn't be about necro. It should be about having other classes as supporters, so that the supports now are also free to play DPSBut the supports (as in "the support classes") are also free to play DPS. Soulbeast dps builds (both condi and power) are a thing, and so do dps mirages. It may be not so with players, but it's not due to classes themselves, but to the often forgotten in this thread fact that most players do not want to play supports (or take upon themselves any kinds of roles beyond dps, for that matter). That is why those that do not mind (or even like) to play those will end up doing it always.

[Nimon.7840]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@"Nimon.7840" said:Again. This shouldn't be about necro. It should be about having other classes as supporters, so that the supports now are also free to play DPSBut the supports (as in "the support classes")

are

also free to play DPS. Soulbeast dps builds (both condi and power) are a thing, and so do dps mirages. It may be not so with

players

, but it's not due to classes themselves, but to the often forgotten in this thread fact that most players do not want to play supports (or take upon themselves any kinds of roles beyond dps, for that matter). That is why those that do not mind (or even like) to play those will end up doing it always.

Not really.If there's a 10 man group. And the supporters don't want to play supporters anymoreInstead all go play DPS.The overall group DPS will be way lower than with those supporters.Chrono and druid add a lot of group DPS, you just cannot see it in raid scenarios.But let me make a example. I just a little bit behind the benchmark of scourge.Like 800 off.If I remove all boons i reach about 10 k DPS.

So chrono, druid and warrior add 18k DPS. That's huge!

[Catchyfx.5768]

Ranger and Warrior are unique buffers so you cannot replace them(if you wanna speedclear, you can do content without them tho) Chrono si different story. It can be replaced but why would you waste 2-3 spots for things 1 chrono can do? I mean...It gives you all boons in the game.. Firebrand and Rev gives you Alacrity and Quickness. Overkill." Be pink and join the godhood because you are weak and I'm mighty" -Chrono

Well the solution is simple.Play mesmer,warrior,ranger and you will be OK. This classes have good cores so every other E-specs will be pretty good and universal and better then others. Like a always.And have unique buffs(except Mesmer but chrono is what it is)

OR get yourself 9 ppl and try things your way... I know it bothers me too but Mesmer,War are anet babies and will be always better then others. Just accept it.

EDIT: I wanted to say "Lets wait for another E-Specs" but I can asure you that non of them bring you all boons uptime in 1 character.

[Astralporing.1957]

@Nimon.7840 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Nimon.7840 said:Again. This shouldn't be about necro. It should be about having other classes as supporters, so that the supports now are also free to play DPSBut the supports (as in "the support classes")

are

also free to play DPS. Soulbeast dps builds (both condi and power) are a thing, and so do dps mirages. It may be not so with

players

, but it's not due to classes themselves, but to the often forgotten in this thread fact that most players do not want to play supports (or take upon themselves any kinds of roles beyond dps, for that matter). That is why those that do not mind (or even like) to play those will end up doing it always.

Not really.If there's a 10 man group. And the supporters don't want to play supporters anymoreInstead all go play DPS.The overall group DPS will be way lower than with those supporters.Chrono and druid add a lot of group DPS, you just cannot see it in raid scenarios.But let me make a example. I just a little bit behind the benchmark of scourge.Like 800 off.If I remove all boons i reach about 10 k DPS.

So chrono, druid and warrior add 18k DPS. That's huge!Well, yes. Someone would need to play support in any case, regardless of what class it would be. But the person on Druid (for example) can let someone else take over and go dps-ing after speccing to soulbeast. The only limitation is the willingness of that someone else to take over the support role.

Let's say you'd nerf chrono, splitting their boons among two classes. What you would accomplish is causing the need for 6, not 4, support slots in raid composition. I hardly see how that would help making people "free to play dps" more than the current situation.

In short, "having other classes as supporters" would not diminish the need for supporters. Someone would still need to play that support role. Unless you made all boons irrelevant.

[Zunki.3916]

I think they should replace all the unique perma raidbuffs (plus 170 power, condidmg and alike) by distinct effects that multiple professions can provide (not stacking). Like:One 10% Critchance buff, profided by either warrior, ele, thief, etc. One 10% Condidmg buff, from necro, mesmer, etc. This way you would have some raidbuffs and synergies, but you can reach them from multiple sources. Every buff should be on a trait or utility slot and so you have to give something up to provide it.Rework alac to nonboon again and make thid such an effect too.In the end there would be like 5 buffs (crit%, dmg, condidmg, alac, critdmg, condiduration) with every class being able to provide 2 of them at max on a spec (some locked behind elite specs, so a profession could provide maybye 3 or 4 of them, but not at the same time).

For example they could replace the sunspirit and pinpoint effect by the 10% condidamage buff, replace frost stpirit and empower allies effect by 10% dmg, and so on.It would take a massive overhaul but in the end it would look cleaner than the mess we have now. And you could balance it easier.

[Nimon.7840]

@Zunki.3916 said:I think they should replace all the unique perma raidbuffs (plus 170 power, condidmg and alike) by distinct effects that multiple professions can provide (not stacking). Like:One 10% Critchance buff, profided by either warrior, ele, thief, etc. One 10% Condidmg buff, from necro, mesmer, etc. This way you would have some raidbuffs and synergies, but you can reach them from multiple sources. Every buff should be on a trait or utility slot and so you have to give something up to provide it.Rework alac to nonboon again and make thid such an effect too.In the end there would be like 5 buffs (crit%, dmg, condidmg, alac, critdmg, condiduration) with every class being able to provide 2 of them at max on a spec (some locked behind elite specs, so a profession could provide maybye 3 or 4 of them, but not at the same time).

For example they could replace the sunspirit and pinpoint effect by the 10% condidamage buff, replace frost stpirit and empower allies effect by 10% dmg, and so on.It would take a massive overhaul but in the end it would look cleaner than the mess we have now. And you could balance it easier.

That's kinda the thing I want to have. Remove unique boons or spread them wider so that other classes have access to them as well.

[Laila Lightness.8742]

@Zunki.3916 said:I think they should replace all the unique perma raidbuffs (plus 170 power, condidmg and alike) by distinct effects that multiple professions can provide (not stacking). Like:One 10% Critchance buff, profided by either warrior, ele, thief, etc. One 10% Condidmg buff, from necro, mesmer, etc. This way you would have some raidbuffs and synergies, but you can reach them from multiple sources. Every buff should be on a trait or utility slot and so you have to give something up to provide it.Rework alac to nonboon again and make thid such an effect too.In the end there would be like 5 buffs (crit%, dmg, condidmg, alac, critdmg, condiduration) with every class being able to provide 2 of them at max on a spec (some locked behind elite specs, so a profession could provide maybye 3 or 4 of them, but not at the same time).

For example they could replace the sunspirit and pinpoint effect by the 10% condidamage buff, replace frost stpirit and empower allies effect by 10% dmg, and so on.It would take a massive overhaul but in the end it would look cleaner than the mess we have now. And you could balance it easier.

As long rangers get nerfed sure

[Catchyfx.5768]

On one side its fair but on the other side it kills uniqueness. Look on MEMEpidemic. Banners,Spirits..keep them just make more classes worth boonshare close to chrono

[Zunki.3916]

@Catchyfx.5768 said:On one side its fair but on the other side it kills uniqueness. Look on MEMEpidemic. Banners,Spirits..keep them just make more classes worth boonshare close to chrono

Problem is with this unique buffs we will always have to bring 1 ranger 1 warrior to almost any raid.Uniqueness should be and already is provided about how a spec is played, how it applies dmg/heal/buffs. You should not be encouraged to play a profession for the unique buff it provides to a raid, you should be encouraged for flair, playstyle and profession mechanics. The way it is now: There are tons of really bad chronos/druid/bs partly because these players knew it's easy to lfg with them, not because they enjoy or play them so well. This also happened with Mirage at Largos...

Unique effects like epidemic have it's place, but in a balanced, most ideally non-stacky fashion.

[Nimon.7840]

There a huge problem there, which is chrono, and after that druid and warrior.

But let's talk about chrono then.And I will compare it to epi.

So epi was clearly too strong I admit that, but I really don't think that how they nerfed epibounce wasn't the best way to nerf it, as it's also I direct nerf to cleave, but whatever. I wanna talk about chrono:Now they introduced 10 man share boons via signet of inspiration.Sure they removed the passive one, but it seems like Devs forgot about mimic.

With 2 chronos, you can easily bounce boons back and forth. It's the exact same thing like epi. Just that it works slightly different. While epi did dmg, inspiration signet provides the boons to deal that dmg.

I heard from someone pugging, that he had very bad chronos in his team, yet he had almost 100% uptime of ALL boons.So you don't even need good chronos to give all the boons available to the whole raidgroup which is giga busted.Giga busted because you only need one good chrono. He provides boons to the whole group, then second chrono just has to:Continuum splitMimicInspiration signetInspiration signetContinuum split endsMimicInspiration signetInspiration signet

But Funfact. Noone is conplaining about this. Here's why:Epibounce only affected necro and indirectly affected the other classes.Necro was more wanted than other dds. So all of them wanted to play their favourite class again -> everyone complained -> epi got nerfed

Even though it was an amazing teamffight ability which supported communication between the players.

Now chrono:Everyone would be affected and have lower damage if chrono got nerfed, so nobogldy complains about it, because the chrono nerf might indirectly nerf everyone's favourite class.

[Zunki.3916]

Permanent resistance and aegis is just shit if you ask me. Vigor and stuff others can provide easily, especially if you make some tweaks. If you ask me chrono must lose it's "I can share ANY boon" very fast, but still keep quickness and alac (best would be 10man). But others should be allowed to provide it too. Some supports should also get the ability to easily provide 25might@10.

But that's the point: Standard boons are pretty much spread, but chrono also got quick and alac almost exclusively, with makes it just way too strong. Might is strong too, but anyone can at least provide some might. Might stacking was common even before druid existed. You can easily reduce chrono boonshare while improving other classes boonshare without nerfing anything. All we need is alternatives. Right now it already starts so quickness firebrands are looked up for in lfg, so they are on the right track - just not there yet. More classes need alac and quickness.

Yes, chrono is busted op but at least they are tweaking and working on it. My remarks go one step further, by providing a clean and fair buff mechanic with a lot room for different setups - And that should be the ultimate goal if you ask me. There will still be an optimal setup, but the way gw2 is balanced an even 20% worse setup is still perfectly fine. Point is, long time having no druid/chrono meant something like minus over 50% dps, and that's just wrong.

[Catchyfx.5768]

@Zunki.3916 said:

@Catchyfx.5768 said:On one side its fair but on the other side it kills uniqueness. Look on MEMEpidemic. Banners,Spirits..keep them just make more classes worth boonshare close to chrono

Problem is with this unique buffs we will always have to bring 1 ranger 1 warrior to almost any raid.Uniqueness should be and already is provided about how a spec is played, how it applies dmg/heal/buffs. You should not be encouraged to play a profession for the unique buff it provides to a raid, you should be encouraged for flair, playstyle and profession mechanics. The way it is now: There are tons of really bad chronos/druid/bs partly because these players knew it's easy to lfg with them, not because they enjoy or play them so well. This also happened with Mirage at Largos...

Unique effects like epidemic have it's place, but in a balanced, most ideally non-stacky fashion.

you bring them anyway they are esiest dps specs too

[Henry.5713]

The recent balance changes already allow us to replace the META trio of supports (chrono+chrono+druid) with another group of three (FB+FB+renegade). Something that didn't work before as you were forced to use two renegades. A DPS soulbeasts is able to provide spirits just as easily as any druid while your squad will gain additional damage modifiers thanks to he signet sharing of both FBs.Would this be better than using chronomancers and druids? No, hardly. There are many reasons (biggest one of them being the new 10-men signet trait on chrono) but I would be surprised if the alternative squad is 20% behind, let alone that silly claim of 50%.

[Laila Lightness.8742]

@Henry.5713 said:The recent balance changes already allow us to replace the META trio of supports (chrono+chrono+druid) with another group of three (FB+FB+renegade). Something that didn't work before as you were forced to use two renegades. A DPS soulbeasts is able to provide spirits just as easily as any druid while your squad will gain additional damage modifiers thanks to he signet sharing of both FBs.Would this be better than using chronomancers and druids? No, hardly. There are many reasons (biggest one of them being the new 10-men signet trait on chrono) but I would be surprised if the alternative squad is 20% behind, let alone that silly claim of 50%.

Druid is useless at healing even a venom share theif with zerker can do.better than druid in heal they are might bots nothing else druid needs more nerf to might and healing so no one ever picks it again. Thats what most of community wants anyway